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story category Rochester, NY Versus Time Warner Cable
Locals beg for Verizon FiOS to come save them...
(old news - 06:25PM Thursday Apr 09 2009)
tags: business · bandwidth · Op/Ed · cable · RoadRunner Cable
Time Warner Cable's new metered billing trials have carefully targeted areas where Verizon doesn't offer FiOS service, because they don't want to operate at a further competitive disadvantage in those markets. Time Warner Cable already offers slower speeds, having opted to take the casual stroll approach to upgrading their network to DOCSIS 3.0. Adding metered billing to this mix is a bad idea in any market, but it's marketing suicide in FiOS markets.

That's why Time Warner Cable chose a market like Rochester, NY to expand their trials. In Rochester, most customers (if they're lucky) have two choices, either Time Warner Cable or Frontier Communications. Frontier's not a particularly robust competitor, given our users say they struggle to provide even 6Mbps worth of connectivity, and are facing cash flow issues. Annoyed local residents are now begging Verizon for help, one local launching a website aimed at bringing FiOS to the upstate, NY city. From the site description:
Currently dominated by a strong monopolistic presence in the cable market of Time Warner Cable, and in the internet market of Time Warner Roadrunner cable internet service, with only minor competition from sources such as Frontier and Choice One DSL, consumers in the Rochester area would flock to a service that offers the better services, lower fees, and unlimited fast bandwidth that Verizon FIOS offers.
Rochester is proving to be quite a thorn in Time Warner Cable's side, since the city is also the home of a new website called Stop The Cap, whose arguments against the idea of metered billing are a must read. Unfortunately the city has an uphill battle, given Frontier has an exclusive telco franchise with the city. On a positive note, Time Warner Cable's plans seem to have convinced Frontier to abandon their own plans for incredibly low caps in Rochester, apparently deciding it makes more sense to try and soak up fleeing customers.

It's not clear who exactly was in charge of this latest public relations nightmare for Time Warner Cable, but they can't be having a very enjoyable week at the company's corporate offices, where insiders tell us executives are keeping a very close watch on your comments. Of course said executives could have avoided a PR problem by following Comcast's lead and imposing a high 250GB cap to catch high-concumption users, perhaps imposing lower caps and metered billing later should the market be able to bear it at a later date.

Instead, they decided to dive face first into metered billing, first unveiling the idea in Beaumont, Texas, using some underhanded tactics to get customers on board. They then decided to leak trial expansion plans via Business Week, assuming that a chatty fluff piece with Time Warner Cable CEO Glenn Britt would be enough to convince the public that this was a good idea. Of course the public didn't buy it, given many were just starting to enjoy things like HD Netflix content streamed via their Xbox 360 -- and completely understand the company's financial lust.

You get the feeling that Time Warner Cable's back will probably bend soon, given the absolutely explosive volume of bad press. Look for some kind of announcement in the next few weeks aiming to diffuse what's become the PR equivalent of Gettysburg. You'll likely see them significantly ramp up the amount of capped usage, but cling tight to the metered billing model -- since their entire goal is to monetize the Internet video threat to their TV revenues.

<Update>: Time Warner Cable's damage control efforts arrived right on cue.

Related:
  1. Time Warner Cable Expands Metered Billing
  2. There's No Data To Prove Metered Billing Is Necessary
  3. Time Warner Cable Offers Weak Concessions
  4. Time Warner Cable Protests Planned
  5. Time Warner Cable Metered Billing Will Return
  6. Time Warner Caps Go from Ugly To Invisible
  7. Time Warner Cable Acknowledges 'Debacle'
  8. Time Warner Cable GETS MORE EXTREME!!!
Forums » Rochester, NY Versus Time Warner Cable
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Xizer

join:2004-02-05
New York, NY


1 edit

Less talk, more action

It is time to hit Time Warner Cable where it hurts - in the wallet. In this economy, your dollar is more valuable than ever. Canceling your service with Time Warner will do volumes more than writing an angry e-mail. Of course, doing both would be the best option.

GOLFnSUN
Enjoy the sun
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Avalon, NJ
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Re: Less talk, more action

said by Xizer See Profile :

It is time to hit Time Warner Cable where it hurts - in the wallet. In this economy, your dollar is more valuable than ever. Canceling your service with Time Warner will do volumes more than writing an angry e-mail. Of course, doing both would be the best option.
I agree. And that is how you get companies to respond to the consumer. If they charge too much, don't buy their service. But it seems the American way is now morphing in to a system where if you don't like the price of something then ask the government to take over or fix prices thru rules & regulations. Your suggestion would work better.
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insomniac84

join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN


1 edit

Re: Less talk, more action

The problem is we are dealing with near monopolies. Even in this case you have a reseller that costs more because they are a reseller(granted that may change if TWC implements expensive bandwidth fees) and dsl competition that is crap because most of the people live too far from a CO to get decent speeds.

The only easy option people have is to regulate. Thew whole fighting with your wallet thing can't work in monopoly situations. The hard but better option is to build a municipal fiber network. But of course if you try that the companies that opposed regulation and supposedly support the free market will sue the hell out of you to stop you from creating competition.

RRMAN
Premium
join:2007-04-02
Cleveland, OH

Re: Less talk, more action

Monopoly? What about gas companies and oil companies. Want to talk price gouging?
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JPL
Premium
join:2007-04-04
West Chester, PA
·Verizon FIOS


1 edit
said by insomniac84 See Profile :

The problem is we are dealing with near monopolies. Even in this case you have a reseller that costs more because they are a reseller(granted that may change if TWC implements expensive bandwidth fees) and dsl competition that is crap because most of the people live too far from a CO to get decent speeds.

The only easy option people have is to regulate. Thew whole fighting with your wallet thing can't work in monopoly situations. The hard but better option is to build a municipal fiber network. But of course if you try that the companies that opposed regulation and supposedly support the free market will sue the hell out of you to stop you from creating competition.
They need MORE regulation?! Huh? OVER-regulation is part of the problem - note this from the posting:

"Unfortunately the city has an uphill battle, given Frontier has an exclusive telco franchise with the city."

Why is Frontier the only telco in town? Because of regulation! What they need here is more DE-regulation.

Frontier has a monopoly in this case not because of ruthless business practices... but because of government regulation. They're granted that status by regulation. How is increasing the regulation going to allow in for more competition? It won't. They need to eliminate/reduce the regulation that's already in place.

I know in this business environment people have come to associate: deregulation = evil; regulation = good. I'm not trying to jump on you, but I really don't think alot of people understand this. It's DEregulation that allowed for cable competition in the first place. Verizon was only able to roll FiOS into this area after the cable companies lost their monopoly status - only after my township descoped the regulation. In other words, only after they deregulated.

I'm not advocating a total deregulation schema here. But there has to be a balance - regulation is done ostensibly to protect consumers. That's great. But it comes at a cost - both in terms of lack of competition and in terms of actual dollars. You have to strike the right balance. Go too far in one direction, and you leave consumers vulnerable to unscrupulous business tactics... but go to far on the regulation side, and you stifle, and starve-out, competition, in effect CREATING the monopoly. What's going on here appears to be the latter - too much regulation, preventing competition from coming in.

insomniac84

join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN


2 edits

Re: Less talk, more action

If you aren't arguing for total deregulation, then you should support the banning of price gouging. We do it with gas stations. Because that is what 1 dollar a gb is, price gouging.

Yes we should open up places to more competition, but that is not what is being argued here. That telco probably has a long standing contract that just cannot be broken. We are arguing about if it's ok to charge 1 dollar for something that costs 1cent while you are already charging enough to cover all bandwidth costs and fixed costs. This is just a consumption tax/tariff being added to the price of a profitable product to deter competition. This is what regulation should be used to stop.
Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

You are speaking of an isolated incident and not city/county should be able to give ANY one companies exclusive rights to service people. This goes for power/waste/water/cable/telecoms/cable.

You mention deregulation has as bringing cable company competition. That is misleading. The fact that your city "allowed" them to bring FIOS is regulation in itself. Once FIOS is fully installed they can implement the exact same rules and restricts that were there before. Just takes a vote to make Verizon complete their build out to ALL customers, even those deemed not profitable. So regulation hasn't gone anywhere, it is just in the corps court right now.

However, the true underlying issue is that Verizion wouldn't bring FIOS in if they didnt get their way. THAT is what needs to be addressed because regardless of regulations 1 or 2 companies aren't ever going to what is best for the consumer. They will ALWAYS do what is best for their stock jockies.

GOLFnSUN
Enjoy the sun
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join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
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Consumers in the Rochester area would flock to ... Fios

»www.verizonfiber.com/Default.aspx
consumers in the Rochester area would flock to a service that offers the better services, lower fees, and unlimited fast bandwidth that Verizon FIOS offers.
Maybe they would and maybe they wouldn't. But if the web site owner thinks there is such a massive number of people ready to jump on the fiber bandwagon, why doesn't he put that effort in to starting up his own fiber competitor in the area. Even in this rough economy there is still a lot of venture capital out there for the taking. Maybe he should get some and start his own competitive fiber service.
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech

Re: Consumers in the Rochester area would flock to ... Fios

But if the web site owner thinks there is such a massive number of people ready to jump on the fiber bandwagon, why doesn't he put that effort in to starting up his own fiber competitor in the area.
...and on the next edition of Impractical Solutions To Modern Problems, host TK Junkmail explores how opponents of the U.S. occupation of Iraq can stop the war by standing naked in front of American tanks wearing nothing but hand grenades and Fruit of The Loom briefs...

GOLFnSUN
Enjoy the sun
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Re: Consumers in the Rochester area would flock to ... Fios

said by Karl Bode See Profile :

But if the web site owner thinks there is such a massive number of people ready to jump on the fiber bandwagon, why doesn't he put that effort in to starting up his own fiber competitor in the area.
...and on the next edition of Impractical Solutions To Modern Problems, host TK Junkmail explores how opponents of the U.S. occupation of Iraq can stop the war by standing naked in front of American tanks wearing nothing but hand grenades and Fruit of The Loom briefs...
It worked for Gandhi, minus the hand grenades, of course.
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a333
A hot cup of integrals please

join:2007-06-12
Rego Park, NY
·Cingular Wireless
·Verizon Online DSL

Re: Consumers in the Rochester area would flock to ... Fios

said by GOLFnSUN See Profile :

said by Karl Bode See Profile :

But if the web site owner thinks there is such a massive number of people ready to jump on the fiber bandwagon, why doesn't he put that effort in to starting up his own fiber competitor in the area.
...and on the next edition of Impractical Solutions To Modern Problems, host TK Junkmail explores how opponents of the U.S. occupation of Iraq can stop the war by standing naked in front of American tanks wearing nothing but hand grenades and Fruit of The Loom briefs...
It worked for Gandhi, minus the hand grenades, of course.
Uhhh.... sure, if you ignore millions of youth taking to the streets, and creating violent uprisings in every major British outpost in the whole country..... fail

spewak
Kiss It, Kiss It Real Good
Premium
join:2001-08-07
Elk Grove, CA
·SureWest Internet
·FrontierNet Intern..

said by GOLFnSUN See Profile :

said by Karl Bode See Profile :

But if the web site owner thinks there is such a massive number of people ready to jump on the fiber bandwagon, why doesn't he put that effort in to starting up his own fiber competitor in the area.
...and on the next edition of Impractical Solutions To Modern Problems, host TK Junkmail explores how opponents of the U.S. occupation of Iraq can stop the war by standing naked in front of American tanks wearing nothing but hand grenades and Fruit of The Loom briefs...
It worked for Gandhi, minus the hand grenades, of course.
Minus the Fruit of the Loom briefs also Tk.
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AnonDog

@verizon.net


from:
GOLFnSUN See Profile

said by Karl Bode See Profile :

But if the web site owner thinks there is such a massive number of people ready to jump on the fiber bandwagon, why doesn't he put that effort in to starting up his own fiber competitor in the area.
...and on the next edition of Impractical Solutions To Modern Problems, host TK Junkmail explores how opponents of the U.S. occupation of Iraq can stop the war by standing naked in front of American tanks wearing nothing but hand grenades and Fruit of The Loom briefs...
I believe that would work, if they were willing to go to Iraq, sadly most of them are more worried about where they will get their next mocha latte.

On a more serious note, per byte billing is not a matter of if, it is a matter of when.

It is important to remember what happens when the incumbents manage to wrest control from all competitors. Sometimes I wonder that people can be so quick to forget why AT&T was broken up into the "baby bells", and that people can so easily deceive themselves.

Karl, honestly, is it fair for one man to pay another man's bills? Do you think that we should average everyone's electric bill and make everyone pay the same? Walmart is gonna love that!

It is neither fair nor right to ask the little old lady who is checking her E-Mail of a fixed budget to pay for someone else's file sharing binge.

The picture here at DSLR is somewhat skewed by the fact that we are all very heavy users of this Internet, so naturally we all want someone else to carry our freight.

a333
A hot cup of integrals please

join:2007-06-12
Rego Park, NY
·Cingular Wireless
·Verizon Online DSL


1 edit

Re: Consumers in the Rochester area would flock to ... Fios

Eh, I suggest that you be VERY careful when comparing electricity to broadband. You see, electricity is a UTILITY. Do you really want to make broadband a utility?
Secondly, if you're going to make this based on the electricity analogy, there should be a low price (say $15/month) that pays for the connection itself, and 50 GB of transfer. On top of that, overages should be say $0.25/10 GB. (Yes, some here will complain that there are "LAST MILE COSTS", but isn't that what the first $15/month is going into? Think about your electricity analogy here... I pay a basic line charge for the connection to the grid, and then I pay for whatever KWh I use.)
If a puny little Canadian DSL provider like TekSavvy can do this, I see no reason for a megacorp like Time Warner Cable to not follow the lead. Finally, if I'm paying for every bit I use, I BETTER not be getting ads or popups/spam emails, that use up any part of my cap. Also, usage during night time (i.e. off-peak hours) should be unmetered and uncapped. To me, that sounds like an actually viable plan that can make sure light users see REDUCED bills, while heavy downloaders help pay for network upgrades to support their habits.
RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest

I'll say it again: If it is good for data it is even better for video. I'll gladly move to metered billing for the cable TV I actually watch instead of paying scandalous fees for the 90% I don't.

What we really need is the designation of that wire or fiber coming into every home as a common carrier. Then any ISP who wants to charge $1 per GB or put a 5 GB cap on can truly compete in an open market.
jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04
USA


1 edit
Nah, Dog...

If we're all carrying our "freight" light users would have a $5.00 a month bill and heavy users would have a $100 a month bill... Wait, many people DO have $100 a month internet bills while NO-ONE has a $5.00 a month bill. Go figure how THAT works! Here is an example of a company trying to have their cake and eat it too, so to speak... I'm not buying it.
djeremy

join:2004-07-12
San Francisco, CA
bwahahahah!

loved that.
Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

im sure TWC would tie up any local brew fiber in court for years to come. even if private funded from someone not big and powerful like Verizon they would find a way to tie it up in the system.
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en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

Re: Consumers in the Rochester area would flock to ... Fios

This may be a time for Frontier to at least start deploying FTTN. If they have a time to do anything.. it is now.

spewak
Kiss It, Kiss It Real Good
Premium
join:2001-08-07
Elk Grove, CA
·SureWest Internet
·FrontierNet Intern..

Re: Consumers in the Rochester area would flock to ... Fios

said by en102 See Profile :

This may be a time for Frontier to at least start deploying FTTN. If they have a time to do anything.. it is now.
That is exactly what they did here in Elk Grove, Ca.. And pretty much like the article states, the most a subscriber can get for download speed is 6megs. Frontier is not much better than TW at disguising their utter contempt and sheer desire to gouge the consumer.
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espaeth
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said by GOLFnSUN See Profile :

Even in this rough economy there is still a lot of venture capital out there for the taking. Maybe he should get some and start his own competitive fiber service.
It shouldn't be that hard to get VC dollars when they have a profit margin of 1000-1500% on bandwidth! </sarcasm>
JPL
Premium
join:2007-04-04
West Chester, PA
·Verizon FIOS

said by GOLFnSUN See Profile :

»www.verizonfiber.com/Default.aspx
consumers in the Rochester area would flock to a service that offers the better services, lower fees, and unlimited fast bandwidth that Verizon FIOS offers.
Maybe they would and maybe they wouldn't. But if the web site owner thinks there is such a massive number of people ready to jump on the fiber bandwagon, why doesn't he put that effort in to starting up his own fiber competitor in the area. Even in this rough economy there is still a lot of venture capital out there for the taking. Maybe he should get some and start his own competitive fiber service.
Whether they flock to FiOS or not is actually beside the point. Since it appears that these caps only exist in areas where FiOS isn't, wouldn't it stand to reason that having FiOS in the city would create an incentive for TWC to eliminate or reduce those caps? Why, they may even be incentivized to expedite the roll-out of DOCSIS 3.0. Consumers would be served even if they didn't move over to FiOS.

hayabusa3303
Over 200 mph
Premium
join:2005-06-29
clubs:

Someone writing is on the wall.

With this much in the news it cant be good for them. All the negative news has to be starting to hurt them.

I for one i hope it does and shows all isp's if you dont like the business get the hell out now.

ReVeLaTeD
Premium
join:2001-11-10
San Diego, CA

Re: Someone writing is on the wall.

said by hayabusa3303 See Profile :

With this much in the news it cant be good for them. All the negative news has to be starting to hurt them.

I for one i hope it does and shows all isp's if you dont like the business get the hell out now.
Negative.

As in my case, TWC is the only high speed internet option available. AT&T's UVerse isn't even in the same league, with its pathetic 6Mbps downstreams max that can't nearly compete with the 20+Mbps I get now with TWC on their highest tier.

FIOS is only in the most affluent of areas, like 4S Ranch, where people are paying an arm and a leg to live. I'm literally walking distance from there, yet can't get FIOS. Therefore, I have no choice if I want reasonable internet speeds.

I'll pay for TWC's highest tier. A 100GB cap isn't unreasonable, because they really don't enforce it. But metered billing isn't ideal for me, UNLESS there's NO MINIMUM MONTHLY CHARGE, and then it's just a pay-for-use model. I'd be ok with that as an alternative when money gets tight. But if they want to charge $60 + per GB fee, no way.
jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04
USA


1 edit

Re: Someone writing is on the wall.

Um,

I have U-verse and my speeds are 18/1.5. It's not the fastest speed on the planet, but it's okay for the several computers and devices used in my household.

The fastest speed that I can get here ( Santa Clarita) from TWC is a puny 6mbps down and whatever they can muster up....
jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04
USA


1 edit
BTW, go to Beaumont, CA and tell me that is an affluent neighborhood. They have Fios there. I know because I lived there and had it. It was great! TWC ( former Adelphia) sucked there too. As did they in Garden Grove... As do they most everywhere I've had them in several states. TWC used to be pretty progressive, but they're not so much anymore. Comcast, Cablevision, and Cox are all better. Actually, Charter is a little better than them ( based on my experience).

Basically, this metered billing crap is not a good idea, imho. It's just a way to protect their video interests.

ReVeLaTeD
Premium
join:2001-11-10
San Diego, CA

Re: Someone writing is on the wall.

said by jjeffeory See Profile :

BTW, go to Beaumont, CA and tell me that is an affluent neighborhood. They have Fios there.
I'm referring to San Diego County.

And I stand corrected...I was looking at standard DSL BUT, I'm not interested in going to AT&T. They screwed me when they were PacBell, screwed me when they were SBC, and I'm not about to allow them to screw me now.

TWC isn't the greatest but I've never had a complaint with their internet offering. Had to drop TV as it couldn't hold a candle to DirecTV though.
jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04
USA


2 edits

Re: Someone writing is on the wall.

Oh, ok. Sorry if I got excited and snapped at you. I'm passionately opposed to this idea that TWC is trying and I do not want other companies to try it too...
I'm not very happy with U-Verse's TV performance either. It's getting frustrating not being able to watch and record more than two things at one time, and the DVR and set top box keep crashing, etc... I prefer DirecTV or Fios, but U-Verse's internet offering has been rock solid here. I grew up with TWC in the midwest and used to think they were the greatest thing since sliced bread until I lived in other areas where I saw what could be done with internet and television. I'm not too happy about much of anything that TWC is doing to their customers lately. Just give your customers great service at a reasonable price and they will be happy and keep your service.

BTW, I wouldn't ever had at&t either, but it's the lesser of two evils. Pretty much every company has screwed me, yet I still have to deal with some of them. I understand you not wanting to deal with at&t.

ShellMG



Keep up the pressure

As a recent migrant from Wildblue, I can't encourage others enough to fight this cap/FAP crap before it starts.

I had the 7.5G plan -- at $70+ a month -- and I sprouted a dent in my forehead from desk-thumping in frustration. With two teenagers and a husband who teaches, I got sick to death of playing "Cap Cop" and having to unplug the modem at night to keep the bandwith down. And that was just to avoid being throttled! Satellite providers don't provide very good ways to monitor your bandwith ("google 'Fapzilla' or check out WB/Hughesnet forums) and since the meters aren't real-time, you could go to bed fine and wake up FAPped.

Fight the caps. Don't let them THINK about implementing them. You can lose sleep as well as money worrying about babysitting your bandwith.
n2ubp

join:2007-07-13
Middletown, NY

Since did FIOS fall under telco Terms and Conditions?

Verizon is a telco player but FIOS is not a traditional telco pipeline to the home. Frontier may have exclusive telco rights in Rochester. I'm sure that does not stop time warner from offering VOIP. It should not stop Verizon from offering FIOS including VOIP over FIOS
as long as they can get a franchise from Rochester.
leedrake

join:2009-04-10
Rochester, NY

Thanks for covering my website...

As I get more time I'll be building out two new sections:

1) How rate caps affect each category of user (from "low end low bandwidth" up to fully connected user.

2) How Verizon Fiber differs in both their philosophy towards the internet and in their philosophy towards the cable market.

»www.verizonfiber.com

antdude
A Ninja Ant
Premium,VIP
join:2001-03-25

My city has FIOS...

... but not in my area/street.

FiOSopher



Happy Day

One of the happiest days of my adult life was when I disconnected TWC after getting FiOS. VZ's 21st century technology shows the bankruptcy of legacy coax's shortsighted bets on sharing a medium approaching capacity on day 1. Sell your Time Warner stock, while you're at it.
b3to

join:2005-07-18
Staten Island, NY

Caps

What i have recently seen new community operated internet, phone and cable services at a great price, which solved most of the problems that Rochester and most of Upsate NY is facing. They are plenty of resources and companies that are more than willing to provide the tools necessary to get this running.

This is all going to blow up on their face, putting caps on internet might give them some more money in their pockets, but its only going to create a much better competitor while giving TWC a bad reputation.

Where I live now, Staten Island, New York, only half of the island is covered b the new Fios service, mostly on the privately owned houses due to contract and other discriminatory issues. I currently have TWC New Road Runner Turbo with Power Boost for About $37 dollars a months. This is not a bad price for now, and i believe in the near future when Fios covers all of NYC, then will Cable companies see a real competition and will be forced lower prices and upgrade their network.

Nobody wants to have the government involve in telecommunications issues as we seen over history what has happen to the radio and television and the out of date FCC.
We are limited to what we could do and the consequences of doing nothing. A solution has to come soon, lets see what happens with the new, soon to be free TV waves, part of that spectrum is to be used to a national wireless broadband network. The United Stated founded the internet, its sad how we are now so far behind in the world.
Forums » Rochester, NY Versus Time Warner Cable


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