 
N0_Nam3
join:2002-06-14
Leamington, ON | haha which is why i have bell  | |
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BIGMIKE
"I do not know with what weapons World W
Premium
join:2002-06-07
Westminster, CA
| Re: The End of the Internet? The End of the Internet?
The nation's largest telephone and cable companies are crafting an alarming set of strategies that would transform the free, open and nondiscriminatory Internet of today to a privately run and branded service that would charge a fee for virtually everything we do online.
Verizon, Comcast, Bell South and other communications giants are developing strategies that would track and store information on our every move in cyberspace in a vast data-collection and marketing system, the scope of which could rival the National Security Agency. According to white papers now being circulated in the cable, telephone and telecommunications industries, those with the deepest pockets--corporations, special-interest groups and major advertisers--would get preferred treatment. Content from these providers would have first priority on our computer and television screens, while information seen as undesirable, such as peer-to-peer communications, could be relegated to a slow lane or simply shut out.
Under the plans they are considering, all of us--from content providers to individual users--would pay more to surf online, stream videos or even send e-mail. Industry planners are mulling new subscription plans that would further limit the online experience, establishing "platinum," "gold" and "silver" levels of Internet access that would set limits on the number of downloads, media streams or even e-mail messages that could be sent or received. »The End of the Internet?
»www.thenation.com/doc/20060213/chester
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Type "miserable failure" in Google | |
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| | Drex_CS
join:2005-05-11
canada | Re: The End of the Internet? how's that tin foil working out for you? | |
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BIGMIKE
"I do not know with what weapons World W
Premium
join:2002-06-07
Westminster, CA
| Re: The End of the Internet? said by Drex_CS  :how's that tin foil working out for you? Not so good can you recommend a good Tin-foil hat?:D
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Type "miserable failure" in Google | |
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rtcy
RTCY
Premium
join:1999-10-16
Norwalk, CA
 ·Verizon west (ex G..
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Re: The End of the Internet? said by BIGMIKE :said by Drex_CS :how's that tin foil working out for you? Not so good can you recommend a good Tin-foil hat?:D the internet is becoming a replay of history during the late 1800's early 1900's now the new robber barons of today are the same hot air stock hype companies like Gooogle and the "reunited" phone companies that were once MA bell, of course let's not forget or greedy friend in the cable companies, that re-invented their own monpolistic ideas of "franchise" to price control what we all see.
all the authors of the p2p software dp is come up up with a random port scheme to get around this.
What pussles me in this commentary is the line that talks about of Rogers and Shaw "upgrading" their network. I was under the *gealous* impression for some time now that both of these Canadian Giants had *pure* fiber optics is this not true?
if it is true the why are they throtling speeds? i tought they had bragged about all the unlimited bandwidth they had, why not upgrade the hardware to the faster OC192, as I understand it, that is all that is basically needed to double or triple speeds, it's not like they would have to layout new fiberoptic cable all over again | |
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| | | | | Drex_CS
join:2005-05-11
canada | Re: The End of the Internet? they have fiber backbones, so fiber to the node, but not into the house from what I understand. | |
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rtcy
RTCY
Premium
join:1999-10-16
Norwalk, CA
·Verizon west (ex G..
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: The End of the Internet? said by Drex_CS :they have fiber backbones, so fiber to the node, but not into the house from what I understand. Sounds to me like they don't even have a legitimate reason to steal their clients bandwidth. I can see how some of these cable giants that now *need* more bandwidth to sell phone services are making shady decisions with their clients paid for bandwidth. | |
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Dryvlyne
Far Beyond Driven
Premium
join:2004-08-30
Newark, OH
| said by BIGMIKE :The End of the Internet? The nation's largest telephone and cable companies are crafting an alarming set of strategies that would transform the free, open and nondiscriminatory Internet of today to a privately run and branded service that would charge a fee for virtually everything we do online. Verizon, Comcast, Bell South and other communications giants are developing strategies that would track and store information on our every move in cyberspace in a vast data-collection and marketing system, the scope of which could rival the National Security Agency. According to white papers now being circulated in the cable, telephone and telecommunications industries, those with the deepest pockets--corporations, special-interest groups and major advertisers--would get preferred treatment. Content from these providers would have first priority on our computer and television screens, while information seen as undesirable, such as peer-to-peer communications, could be relegated to a slow lane or simply shut out. Under the plans they are considering, all of us--from content providers to individual users--would pay more to surf online, stream videos or even send e-mail. Industry planners are mulling new subscription plans that would further limit the online experience, establishing "platinum," "gold" and "silver" levels of Internet access that would set limits on the number of downloads, media streams or even e-mail messages that could be sent or received. » The End of the Internet?» www.thenation.com/doc/20060213/chester Three words to sum this up - NEW WORLD ORDER
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In relative terms life is shorter than the blink of an eye. Remember that each and every day because in the end it's not about what you've done but how you've lived.
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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
·Verizon FIOS
| You can't block everything So they clamp down on ports 1720 and 1750. Torrents will just move to 1721 and 1751. No matter what they do, people will still work around it.
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"What gives them the right to come in and do this?" she said. - Lady complaining that she was getting FIOS in her backyard. | |
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| drunkgoat
join:2004-04-18 | Re: You can't block everything As a rogers customer, it doesn't matter which port you use anymore, the safe havens of 1720 and 1750 are no longer there, they throttle bit torrent traffic by recognising the header not by port. | |
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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: You can't block everything said by drunkgoat :they throttle bit torrent traffic by recognising the header not by port. So then someone will come out with a hack to make the headers look like something it's not. Or as the summary said, encrypt it flat out.
It's a cat and mouse game, and everytime the cat (Rogers) catches a mouse, another mouse will appear somewhere else and start scurrying around.
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"What gives them the right to come in and do this?" she said. - Lady complaining that she was getting FIOS in her backyard. | |
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bamabrad
join:2006-01-27
Port Orange, FL | Rogers.... Why don't you (Rogers) just go the way in which the consumers WANT to go instead of forcing us into your way-Does this not make good business sense? | |
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| WiZZLa
Insert Meaningless Text Here -Run 4a Mod
join:2003-11-09
Canada
| Re: Rogers Lied, 3 Died said by corster :Rogers likes to lie about anything and everything they can. Blacking out ABC during the Superbowl - "ABC Buffalo is down' and we can't get their feed". Yeah Right. That's why it came back on right after the Superbowl  What type of TV service do you have? I don't recall regular cable being blacked out.
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NOTE: The quicker a thread is closed, the smaller the chance you'll get embarrassed. END NOTE../quote drunkgoatIM #1: I'm not immature!IM #2: I will kick your f*cking ass...when i show up at your door and put a gun to your face.../end.quote | |
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travisc
join:2001-11-09
Port Perry, ON | There actually was an outage with ABC's digital transmitter due to a storm that day, if I remember correctly. | |
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idlewillkill
Wags Himself
Premium
join:2005-09-28
North York, ON | That was the CRTC. Had to carry the Global feed, couldn't carry the Buffalo feed. | |
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andyb
Premium
join:2003-05-29
SW Ontario
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Bell Sympatico
| Dump Rogers While some will disagree with me,you must show you mean business and leave rogers.I understand that sure you can only get 1 or 2 mb on dsl but isnt that better than 0-20KB for your torrents?Plus you have a cap(while it maynot be enforced today but what about tommorow?).Talk with your wallet,thats the only way they listen. | |
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renton
Come on you Spurs
Premium
join:2002-01-05
North York, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Bell Sympatico
| Re: Dump Rogers said by andyb :I understand that sure you can only get 1 or 2 mb on dsl You can get 5 megs with Sympatico Ultra(ADSL). I pay $50/month. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
| Just Block Everything <sarcasm>
Rogers should just block all traffic to and from any port. This will completely solve their bandwidth problems.
</sarcasm>
As for their users... stop complaining here and switch to someone else if you can, or just drop Rogers completely if you cannot use their service the way you want to. There is no reason to pay for something you cannot use!
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Rove / Rumsfeld 2008! | |
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huh
@208.17.x.x | Why waste the time? Bittorrent sucks anyway. I cannot see the reason anyone uses that...on word-
Usenet. | |
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travisc
join:2001-11-09
Port Perry, ON | Re: Why waste the time? The irony being, of course, that Rogers has terminated Usenet services. | |
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Shark_615
join:2006-01-17
Pickering, ON
| so what This is what happens when 1% of the users are consuming 90% of the bandwidth.
I am glad they are throttling those wasters of bandwidth. Ther e is no need to download everything left right and centre, if people are "just" downloading linux it wouldn't be an issue and Rogers wouldn't be doing this. | |
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Roundboy
Premium
join:2000-10-04
Drexel Hill, PA
| Re: so what said by Shark_615 :This is what happens when 1% of the users are consuming 90% of the bandwidth. I am glad they are throttling those wasters of bandwidth. Ther e is no need to download everything left right and centre, if people are "just" downloading linux it wouldn't be an issue and Rogers wouldn't be doing this. Hello! Welcome to the internet!
Rogers is NOT throttling connections.. its outright blocking the bittorrent applicaion from sharing & connecting.
This affects quite a bit more then 'linux ISO downloads' .. it is in use by many sites to serve patches & demos (including World of Warcraft), which is increasing by the day. Also many people find it a perfect alternative to website bandwidth limitations when hosting large-ish files, as torrent'ing them spreads the bandwidth around.
As a new internet user, I'm sure you'll soon see that Bittorrent traffic != Illegal Traffic.
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[spoiler]Steve the pirate DIES![/spoiler] | |
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| | Shark_615
join:2006-01-17
Pickering, ON
| Re: so what Are you new to reading?
I said that if the majority of BT downloads were used for legal activities then the amount of traffic wouldn't have bothered Rogers and they would not have installed anti-bt measures.
They are not blocking bt they are severly minimizing it. But of course you wouldknow, you ARE a rogers customer right? | |
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Roundboy
Premium
join:2000-10-04
Drexel Hill, PA
edit:
February 9th, @11:54AM
| Re: so what said by Shark_615 :Are you new to reading? Ah! I see what you did there.
said by Shark_615 :I said that if the majority of BT downloads were used for legal activities then the amount of traffic wouldn't have bothered Rogers and they would not have installed anti-bt measures. Super. But, *my* post implied that one could generate as much perfectly legal traffic as illegal download traffic. So, Rodgers is not a perfect, unique snowflake for throttling. You did by 'unlimited' internet right? Or did you buy 'unlimited internet, except if you actually use it'
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|spoiler: Steve the pirate DIES! | | |
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| | | | Shark_615
join:2006-01-17
Pickering, ON
| Re: so what I am glad you got that, my day would have been ruined if that little dig has been missed.
However I am sure a few people would be able to make a lot of traffic legally. However the amount of traffic they would create would be tiny compared to how much traffic illegal sharing is creating.
Don't get me wrong I download and share files I probably shouldn't but I severely limit what I get to what I need. I know several people that download full movies just to watch once. They have dozens of files on the go all of the time.
They key here is ABUSE. Its like going 200MPH in a car just because you can and f*** everyone else. | |
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Roundboy
Premium
join:2000-10-04
Drexel Hill, PA
edit:
February 9th, @01:29PM
| Re: so what said by Shark_615 :However I am sure a few people would be able to make a lot of traffic legally. So.. maybe only like the top 1% of downloaders ? 
said by Shark_615 :This is what happens when 1% of the users are consuming 90% of the bandwidth. | |
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| | | | | | Shark_615
join:2006-01-17
Pickering, ON | Re: so what Are you a lawyer? | |
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rtcy
RTCY
Premium
join:1999-10-16
Norwalk, CA
·Verizon west (ex G..
·Verizon FIOS
| said by Shark_615 :I am glad you got that, my day would have been ruined if that little dig has been missed. However I am sure a few people would be able to make a lot of traffic legally. However the amount of traffic they would create would be tiny compared to how much traffic illegal sharing is creating. Don't get me wrong I download and share files I probably shouldn't but I severely limit what I get to what I need. I know several people that download full movies just to watch once. They have dozens of files on the go all of the time. They key here is ABUSE. Its like going 200MPH in a car just because you can and f*** everyone else. legal or ilegal is not the issue.
they are selling you a amount of bandwidth, and they have no right to take it back from you. they are a pipe provider, they are not cops, and if they were cops , they can not see what is legal or not in a BT stream, so they are in fact taking away from you the subscriver what you are paying them for in the first place.
as others have said here, the only way to really give them a good jab is to switch service and letting them know in writting as well as voice WHY.
keep competition ALIVE. this is my number 1 worry about Verizon and them wanting to kill that copper plant and are actively taking down those copper wires. their aim is to be the next MA-bell-CABLE giant. they have talked the FCC to letting them have their way because of the huge investment, and i agree they need to secure that, BUt I want to see 20 years from now the re-opening of that fiver to the same competition that copper has now.
I hope people keep themselves informed and ACTIVe in these matters on both sides of the border | |
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| 
csnewbie
join:2001-02-12
Atlanta, GA
| if you pay for unlimited internet access, then you should get it. not throttle your bandwidth and limit your usage. if you can't provide unlimited then dont advertise it.
if people can't use their high speed internet however they want then why bother to pay 3 or 4 times as much for it? would it not be wise to stick with dialup if all u were doing is just checking email and browsing? | |
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| 
mikef1
Mike
join:2004-10-28
Littlestown, PA
| said by Shark_615 :This is what happens when 1% of the users are consuming 90% of the bandwidth. I am glad they are throttling those wasters of bandwidth. Ther e is no need to download everything left right and centre, if people are "just" downloading linux it wouldn't be an issue and Rogers wouldn't be doing this. I agree.
I do wonder how much throttling they are doing, whether its a fixed cap or not.
At my place of employment we shape all internet traffic with the p2p getting the lowest priority. So they get as much as available, they just don't interfere with other traffic.
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mike
HouseOfMike | |
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andyb
Premium
join:2003-05-29
SW Ontario | Re: What genius 1720/1750 was targeted because its thier internet phone port.those with voip are not throttled(on those ports) as of yet that I've seen. | |
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| 
HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
clubs:
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Bell Sympatico
| said by MxxCon :what genius decided to use arbitrary ports 1720 and 1750?  seems like some douche posted that it works on those 2 ports and EVERYBODY LIKE SHEEP started following. why not just use RANDOM port numbers each time you start bt? geez Rogers throttles ALL ports, so random ports do not work. 1720 & 1755 were an exception, because 1720 is for VoIP, and 1755 is for streaming audio/video for microsofts windows media.
These worked for a while, until they figured it out and clamped those down with some deeper throttling.
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·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´ | |
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Driscollw
join:2003-01-11
Virginia Beach, VA
| This is BS If a company doesn't want you to consume 90% of THEIR bandwidth the companies should sell it that way. Don't claim UNLIMITED and then put on caps. Some VOIP companies say Unlimited calling (But not to exceed 2500 minutes monthly). Companies should be honest of there claims. Then they say "It's unlimited content" not unlimited as in Buffet. BS. AOL sold internet for $20 for 20 hrs. We understood. Then they went unlimited. Not once did they warn me for taking to much bandwidth or being on to long. But, they did disconnect after too much idle time.
I don't take to much bandwidth but, if cox sold me a 5000/2000 connection for 60GB/10GB I still would buy it but, I would understand the limits. They won't sell it that way because all other ISP would take it as an opportunity. GOOD!. All this crap w/ 2 tier internet is BS. It's just putting us further and further behind in technology. The US will come around. All these major corporations are loosing control. CD, DVD, TV copying (archiving), internet, telephone. everyone is just freaking out due to money that they are loosing. They have made TONS of money over the years. Come up with something new to offer us and I might bite. | |
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insomniac84
join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN | Do they throttle business plans? I guess they can make excuses to throttle residential plans based on residential restrictions, but are they also throttling bittorrent traffic on business plans? If not, upgrade to business. | |
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andyb
Premium
join:2003-05-29
SW Ontario | Re: Do they throttle business plans? Yes Business is throttled at times also according to HiVolt | |
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insomniac84
join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN | Re: Do they throttle business plans? Well than that's a pretty sad business service. Normally I would assume a business line would have no filters or throttlers of any kind and be allowed to run at full bandwidth 24/7. | |
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garts99
join:2003-02-27
North York
| utorrent beta seems to work... The new utorrent beta encryption seems to work but only with other peers with encryption. The more users upgrade, the faster speeds will increase.
That is, until Rogers upgrades its traffic shaping tech. Or is that possible? I'm not a techie person. :P | |
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| ah802
join:2004-08-17
Toronto, ON
| Re: utorrent beta seems to work... said by garts99 :The new utorrent beta encryption seems to work but only with other peers with encryption. The more users upgrade, the faster speeds will increase. That is, until Rogers upgrades its traffic shaping tech. Or is that possible? I'm not a techie person. :P encryption will work as long as the packet doesn't look like a torrent. But this will bring on caps with more serious monitoring. | |
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| | 
Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
·Colbanet
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: utorrent beta seems to work... It IS possible to encrypt the traffic so that it is indistinguishable from other traffic, not matter the monitoring. uTorrent/Azureus's current method doesn't go so far as to masquerade as another protocol, but pushed far enough they might.
Imagine, if you will, using HTTPS for inter-peer communication. HTTPS is encrypted, so all the ISP can tell is an HTTPS transfer is going on. The only possible indicator would be the number (and frequency) of HTTPS connections originating from a single IP address.
In reality, it is only the transfers themselves that you need to do this for, so the actual number of connections could be significantly reduced by using another mechanism for other communication (You probably don't need 200 HTTPS connections, maybe only 20 HTTPS and 180 other). 20 HTTPS connections is still a bit fishy, though.
So, what next? Rogers COULD simply throttle all HTTPS traffic to any IP with an abnormal number of HTTPS connections. However that would interfere with simultaneous legitimate HTTPS connections, which might not fly.
How about another way to reduce the number of required transfer connections? Reduce upload slots to 1 or 2. So long as you're still pushing out the same amount of data, it isn't really harmful to the swarm to upload to less people. The same amount of data still gets out there. The only downside is that peers dropping offline would cause more damage.
It is, I think, a matter of how far Rogers is willing to go, and how far they CAN go. As I said, banks wouldn't like HTTPS throttling.
In the meantime, the encryption in uTorrent and Azureus is set to gain widespread popularity very quickly, since those two clients have a huge portion of the BitTorrent marketshare. This solves the problem for now, which is all we can really worry about. If Rogers becomes too big a problem, nobody is stopping people from switching to another ISP. | |
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insomniac84
join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN | Re: utorrent beta seems to work... Personally I am surprised rogers hasn't released a unfiltered tier that costs like 150 a month or something crazy like that. Then they could just tell anyone who complains to upgrade to their super premium unrestricted tier. | |
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Vvian Kalyss
join:2003-10-14
Stage 5.0
clubs: | Re: utorrent beta seems to work... That's the irony - some of us heavy users are actually willing to shell out. | |
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Recon Sniper
join:2003-05-10
Micmac, NS | Switch ISP's Switch ISP's even they charge you a few bucks if torrent is what u want switch, I think rogers does not allow anymore of torrent. | |
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| jloor
join:2001-09-14
New Brunswick, NJ | Re: Switch ISP's And this is why I happily pay Speakeasy an arm and a leg so I can get my unlimted, unresricted 3MB/768K DSL w/ 2 Static IPS. | |
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andyb
Premium
join:2003-05-29
SW Ontario | Re: Switch ISP's I'm happy with my 5mb/800 on sympatico.Rogers people like to brag about thier 6meg or what ever they got but whats the point.You cant use it for p2p and p2p is what everything is going to be in a few years. | |
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UnrealArcher
join:2005-01-21
Scarborough, ON
| Just as a sidenote for those calling for people to switch companies... in many areas it's a choice between Rogers or dial-up. Sympatico HSE isn't nearly as widespread as Rogers cable is... and in areas where it might be, occasionally it's only their cheapest plan (in my area we can get a 1Mbps max speed, if we're lucky...)
For some of us, we really have no choice but to deal with Rogers because dial-up is simply not an option anymore. | |
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andyb
Premium
join:2003-05-29
SW Ontario
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Bell Sympatico
| Re: Switch ISP's you must be a rogers friend.last i checked (as stated in another post here)0-20KB does not come near 1mb.1mb will load your pages more than fast enough(so dsl is adequate) so what else do you need it for besides downloading?If you dont download then you dont need high speed. | |
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| Recon Sniper
join:2003-05-10
Micmac, NS | It's all about what's being abused as a downloader think about it. Rogers knows alot using port 1750.
You know f-- that just use Shareaza.
Something is wrong and only rogers knows what | |
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Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
| Simple Fix - Bandwidth Caps All they should simply do is put a known cap on their services and stop marketing it as unlimited. Not only would this address the problem with BT, but any other abuses out there will be addressed and they wont have to worry about the ports or playing cat and mouse. Then those that abuse their network will either be severally throttled back when they reach the cap (128 or 256kbps), turned off until the next billing cycle, or billed more for the additional bandwidth.
As an ISP they have the right to restrict or straight out deny anything they want. It is their service and their customer's are paying for the privilege to use it according to their terms. So the customer's abide by their rules or they can take their business elsewhere. Or in the case that this may be the only broadband option at the time... they play by their rules, or they switch back to dialup with another service provider. | |
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| TFArchive
Premium
join:2003-02-03
Gloucester, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: Simple Fix - Bandwidth Caps Rogers does have bandwidth caps of 60 and 100GB. But since they put those in they have terminated newsgroups, and throttled torrents. And previous to that they basically took away e-mail and webpages when they sold out to yahoo. (the free webpage is a geocities page that uses your @rogers address in the address so if you're stupid enough to use it you'll be in spam heaven before long).
I'm glad I switched away from Rogers after they put the caps in. I'm happy with my Sympatico Ultra and my Sympatico Dry HSE connections | |
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Drex_CS
join:2005-05-11
canada
| Unlimited ACCESS while I hate the traffic shaping and caps myself, I know that Shaw advertises Unlimited ACCESS to the internet. This means it's always on, unlike dial up. this does not mean unlimited download/upload. just thought I would clairify that since no one ever seems the remember that second word after Unlimited when complaining | |
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| bbenso1
join:2004-11-28
Baltimore, MD
| Re: Unlimited ACCESS said by Drex_CS :while I hate the traffic shaping and caps myself, I know that Shaw advertises Unlimited ACCESS to the internet. This means it's always on, unlike dial up. this does not mean unlimited download/upload. just thought I would clairify that since no one ever seems the remember that second word after Unlimited when complaining Yes, but they don't advertise unlimited ACCESS to (Internet - bittorrent - usenet). The internet is not just web pages. UNLIMITED ACCESS to the internet means you should be able to access any data or service on the internet, including usenet, bittorrent, ftp sites, whatever you want. As soon as they start messing with applications and protocols to prevent you from connecting to servers then you no longer have unlimited access. | |
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| | Drex_CS
join:2005-05-11
canada | Re: Unlimited ACCESS not sure about Rogers, but as for Shaw, they do not block any torrent/usenet/etc, they only slow it down in some area's... so the point still stands for them, they give you unlimited access, just slower than you want. | |
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zipjay
join:2003-03-11
Louisville, KY
| What im going to start doing.. if everyone blocks bittoreent im gonna start calling isps when i move and be like "HI! im wanting to sign up for internet access.. im just wondering do you block bittorrent" most likeley they wont have a clue and transfer me to the special internet people and if they know and just tell me "yes we do" then ok goodbye but make sure everyone knows im wanting to sign up before i ask the question heheh kinda nudge then that i wont sign up if their blocking it | |
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BiggA
join:2005-11-23
EARTH
 ·Comcast
| Heres my guess: Heres my guess: The phone company will offer 1.5mbps DSl for like $10/mo, but only sites that pay will be avaialable through the connection, no torrent, no big downloads, no nothing else. Then comcast, in order to differentiate themselves will offer a 20 or 50mbps connection with no caps throttles or limits, save for no servers and such, but it will be like $100 month, like their didgcable is, and it will require digicable or digivoice to not be like $200. | |
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jebba2005
join:2005-01-13
Portland, ME
·Great Works Internet
·RoadRunner Cable
 ·surpasshosting
| roger roger the customer doesnt really seem to have any options here
start your own coop maybe, call it hippy net, throttle patchouli. complaining wont do much
start the coop, and steal all there customers. then you can block your users from sending anything to rogers email, or business line subscribers. okay thats overboard...
throttling patchouli | |
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Rogers Bit Torrent Cat & Mouse
