 
Pizz
Hi
join:2000-10-27
Astoria, NY
 ·Verizon Online DSL
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| It's because The entire Candian Cable ISP industry, just does whatever it feels like doing. There's hardly any sort of competition up north, and the customers suffer. I'm all for ISPs to try and make money, but you should always been an opt-out of these type of services.
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The more you talk, the less you listen. | |
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 | backness
join:2005-07-08
K2P OW2 | Re: It's because Lets not forget that we pay heavily for this wonderful disservice.
As do the content creators. Why should Rogers get a free ride on my pipes? | |
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wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
 ·BroadVoice
| Re: It's because said by backness  :Lets not forget that we pay heavily for this wonderful disservice. As do the content creators. Why should Rogers get a free ride on my pipes? This only happens to Rogers subscribers while they are using their home connection. So the 'pipes' already belong to Rogers, and they are simply using them to notify you of various things. You wont be at a friends house using Vidoetron and see these 'notices', this is only happening on their network.
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"You're Welcome"
-The United States of America and our Armed Forces-
Keeping the world safe since 1776
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GOLFnSUN
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ | And you can block their msgs using FF & adblock plus Use Firefox browser with the AdBlock Plus addon and you can block their msgs if they are annoying. | |
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype
| Re: And you can block their msgs using FF & adblock plus said by GOLFnSUN :Use Firefox browser with the AdBlock Plus addon and you can block their msgs if they are annoying. If you don't use the Internet, you can block their messages, too.
What's the point?
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Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL
Evil does seek to maintain power by suppressing the truth, or by misleading the innocent. --Spock and McCoy stardate 5029.5 | |
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GOLFnSUN
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| Re: And you can block their msgs using FF & adblock plus said by funchords :said by GOLFnSUN :Use Firefox browser with the AdBlock Plus addon and you can block their msgs if they are annoying. If you don't use the Internet, you can block their messages, too. What's the point? The point is to not be annoyed. And not using the internet at all isn't a good option. What was the point of your post? None that I can see.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page | |
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype
| Re: And you can block their msgs using FF & adblock plus said by GOLFnSUN : What was the point of your post? None that I can see. My point is that I shouldn't have to combat the improper behavior of my ISP. It should just stay out of my way. I shouldn't have to change anything.
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Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL
Evil does seek to maintain power by suppressing the truth, or by misleading the innocent. --Spock and McCoy stardate 5029.5 | |
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NSA_CIA
@cox.net
| Re: And you can block their msgs using FF & adblock plus said by funchords :said by GOLFnSUN : What was the point of your post? None that I can see. My point is that I shouldn't have to combat the improper behavior of my ISP. It should just stay out of my way. I shouldn't have to change anything. Exactly. Consumers should not have to know how to use AD Block plus and Script block plus just to view web pages.
Cable operators are becoming to greedy for their own good. I hope they subtract every bit they force down our throats from there monthly caps. | |
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| | | | | | | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: And you can block their msgs using FF & adblock plus said by NSA_CIA :
Exactly. Consumers should not have to know how to use AD Block plus and Script block plus just to view web pages. Consumers don't need to know how to use Adblock Plus or NoScript to view web pages. Those tools merely help consumers control their content. | |
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DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
Metairie, LA
clubs:
| Re: And you can block their msgs using FF & adblock plus said by openbox9 :said by NSA_CIA :
Exactly. Consumers should not have to know how to use AD Block plus and Script block plus just to view web pages. Consumers don't need to know how to use Adblock Plus or NoScript to view web pages. Those tools merely help consumers control their content. Your supposed to change up the lines a bit before posting straight from the corporate memo.
I can control what web sites I visit just fine on my own. | |
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| | | | | | | | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA | Re: And you can block their msgs using FF & adblock plus You think that whatever made up corporate memo that you're referring to actually suggests that consumers use Adblock Plus and NoScript? I seriously doubt any company will recommend those two tools while surfing web pages. | |
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| | | backness
join:2005-07-08
K2P OW2
| Re: It's because Acutally,
The person who is PAYING the BILL is Provisioning the service. I.E. the Content Creator and the Content Reciever. This means that Rogers is using my rented communication channel to pass on THIER corporate proaganda.
So yes I would say they are sending out this data at the expense of the consumer and the originator of the content | |
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| | | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA | Re: It's because What does your "lease" state regarding what the network owner can and can't do on your rented connection? | |
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| | | | | backness
join:2005-07-08
K2P OW2
| Re: It's because Well lets see,
If I rent a house I have rights, If I subscribe to a phone I have rights,
Why would I have none with Robbers? The issue is, that once you "lease/Rent" something to someone you lose the "right" to do whatever you like with it. So why should the network message sent at my expense (60$) month save Rogers the money for a stamp and the overhead of delivering the message? This is especially true when they clamp down on the network with silly over charges and Usage Based Billing.
Why should broadband be different? | |
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| | | | | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: It's because The lease for your house states what you can/can't do as well as the responsibilities and rights of your landlord. The contract that you sign with a phone dictates your service rights as well as the network owner's rights and responsibilities. So, what does your broadband connection rental agreement state? | |
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wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
·Verizon FIOS
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
·BroadVoice
| said by backness :Well lets see, If I rent a house I have rights, If I subscribe to a phone I have rights, Why would I have none with Robbers? The issue is, that once you "lease/Rent" something to someone you lose the "right" to do whatever you like with it. Your above statement is very misguided. When you rent a car/house you are given rights above and beyond a bystander on the street. HOWEVER, as that property doesnt actually belong to you the rights you have are FAR different than a person who actually owns the asset.
If you think renting a house is the same as owning, try telling your landlord they cant enter the premises to fix a broken water line (or something like that). You will quickly find yourself on the corner searching through the classified ads for a new place!
Along those same lines, go rent a car from your local Hertz (or whatever equivalent you have in Canada). Then remove the rear seats, put 20 inch rims on it, paint it red, and try to return it.
You see, renting something gives you very little actually rights in the eyes of the law. Your rights are limited by the TOS that comes with every agreement you sign, and in 99.999999999% of cases it favors the asset owner (in this case the telco).
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"You're Welcome"
-The United States of America and our Armed Forces-
Keeping the world safe since 1776
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El Quintron
Could you spare a consulting gig?
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Acanac
| Re: It's because said by wifi4milez :If you think renting a house is the same as owning, try telling your landlord they cant enter the premises to fix a broken water line (or something like that). You will quickly find yourself on the corner searching through the classified ads for a new place! FYI about Canadian (at least Ontario) law...
As a landlord you are required to give any Tenant at least 48 Hours notice before entering and the tenant can refuse entry to you without any adverse consequences to the tenant.
So if I want to live with a broken water heater that's my call.
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Working to bring you closer to a Bell and Rogers free household. | |
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wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
·Verizon FIOS
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
·BroadVoice
| Re: It's because said by El Quintron :said by wifi4milez :If you think renting a house is the same as owning, try telling your landlord they cant enter the premises to fix a broken water line (or something like that). You will quickly find yourself on the corner searching through the classified ads for a new place! FYI about Canadian (at least Ontario) law... As a landlord you are required to give any Tenant at least 48 Hours notice before entering and the tenant can refuse entry to you without any adverse consequences to the tenant. So if I want to live with a broken water heater that's my call. Not if a pipe in a common wall area breaks, or if whatever is broken is going to screw up the structure of the building. The LL can come in for emergency maintenance, even if you arent there (thats the law everywhere). A broken water heater is not an emergency, and that is why you can refuse him entry.
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"You're Welcome"
-The United States of America and our Armed Forces-
Keeping the world safe since 1776
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El Quintron
Could you spare a consulting gig?
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Acanac
| Re: It's because said by wifi4milez : A broken water heater is not an emergency, and that is why you can refuse him entry. Injecting ads/messages on my internet certainly isn't an emergency either...
Therefore I should be able to "refuse" entry as well. In fact it should become part of privacy law. UA's should be made null and void by virtue of this.
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Working to bring you closer to a Bell and Rogers free household. | |
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wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
·Verizon FIOS
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
·BroadVoice
| Re: It's because said by El Quintron :said by wifi4milez : A broken water heater is not an emergency, and that is why you can refuse him entry. Injecting ads/messages on my internet certainly isn't an emergency either... Therefore I should be able to "refuse" entry as well. In fact it should become part of privacy law. UA's should be made null and void by virtue of this. First, they have never injected ads (nor has anyone else). Second, they could argue that security notices and things like that are emergencies. By signing the agreement for service you are agreeing to their TOS and everything it includes. The same applies to a house/apartment you rent; all the detail are in the lease.
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"You're Welcome"
-The United States of America and our Armed Forces-
Keeping the world safe since 1776
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El Quintron
Could you spare a consulting gig?
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Acanac
| Re: It's because To be clear I'm no longer a Roger's customer, and they do inject ads, you can't deny it.
-Whether the DNS redirects instead of a 404 page or the injected ads along the google search page... they're injecting ads.
This was happening in 2006, when I was a Roger's customer.
Emergencies are life threathening. TSI's notices of network outages via email are nice, but aren't required...
I will say that this being a consumer board ISPs do take quite a beating at times, but no amount of apologism is going make this practice palatable.
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Working to bring you closer to a Bell and Rogers free household. | |
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype
| said by wifi4milez :First, they have never injected ads (nor has anyone else). Yeah, it did happen for about a month in 2007. It was one of the earlier NebuAd trials.
said by wifi4milez :Second, they could argue that security notices and things like that are emergencies. Yeah, they'll argue that. Note that you yourself are finding the loopholes here. That should be a sign.
said by wifi4milez :By signing the agreement for service you are agreeing to their TOS and everything it includes. Can we agree that the "signature" (usually a button press) is on fluidic test. A TOS is subject to change without notice. If we're really signing a document agreeing to sections that haven't been written yet, is it any wonder that consumers give it rather lower regard than an unchanging document that is actually signed?
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Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL
Evil does seek to maintain power by suppressing the truth, or by misleading the innocent. --Spock and McCoy stardate 5029.5 | |
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wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
·Verizon FIOS
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
·BroadVoice
| Re: It's because said by funchords :Yeah, it did happen for about a month in 2007. It was one of the earlier NebuAd trials. As far as I know that wasnt Rogers (which is what we are talking about here), it was a small ISP in the Southern US. Hence, my argument still holds true.
said by funchords :Yeah, they'll argue that. Note that you yourself are finding the loopholes here. That should be a sign. No argument there, I am just pointing out that there could be a legitimate reason for using it.
said by funchords :Can we agree that the "signature" (usually a button press) is on fluidic test. A TOS is subject to change without notice. If we're really signing a document agreeing to sections that haven't been written yet, is it any wonder that consumers give it rather lower regard than an unchanging document that is actually signed? Regardless, every contract (telecom or not) has a TOS of sorts. Legal contracts are what bind people together in civilized societies. Unless you can come up with a better option, we will be stuck with contracts for many years to come....
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"You're Welcome"
-The United States of America and our Armed Forces-
Keeping the world safe since 1776
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype
| Re: It's because said by wifi4milez :said by funchords :Yeah, it did happen for about a month in 2007. It was one of the earlier NebuAd trials. As far as I know that wasnt Rogers (which is what we are talking about here), it was a small ISP in the Southern US. Hence, my argument still holds true. I'll requote you, "First, they have never injected ads (nor has anyone else)."
I'm really not in an argument with you, though. I think we both see this thing as a lame thing to do.
PS: Fixing the world's problems with service contracts is on my list of things to do, right after solving world hunger and middle-east peace.
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Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL
Evil does seek to maintain power by suppressing the truth, or by misleading the innocent. --Spock and McCoy stardate 5029.5 | |
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n2jtx
join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY
·Optimum Online
| https If more sites switched to https, then deep packet inspection and code injection would become moot. What is also scary is that the ISP's could actually alter the contents of a website to present misinformation. It might be extreme but I could imagine an ISP someday filtering negative comments about them from various websites such as this one and injecting only happy messages.
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I support the right to keep and arm bears. | |
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SuperWISP
join:2007-04-17
Laramie, WY
| No need for "deep packet inspection" Eeeek! Oh, noooooo! The e-vile bogeyman of "deep packet inspection" emerges from the swamp once again!
Folks, let's get real. First of all, there's no such thing as "deep packet inspection." Packets have no depth; they're one-dimensional strings of bits. And no one is "inspecting" the packets; a machine is gathering statistics on them.
Finally, insertion of information in a Web browser window can be done with a simple transparent Web cache. And it's no more obtrusive than the ads which Juno (for example) used to put in your browser window. Only in this case, the messages aren't ads but useful information about your service! Absolutely nothing wrong with that. | |
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| clickie
join:2005-05-22
Monroe, MI
| Re: No need for "deep packet inspection" "Useful" is a pretty vague term, don't you think? Usually these things start out only as "informational" and then rapidly descend into outright channels for paid advertising.
No one should be changing the content in any respect of any web site they do not own. Period. | |
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| | sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH
| Re: No need for "deep packet inspection" If Canadians are concerned, why not elect a government that doesn't pander to special interests while allowing Canadian ISPs to charge prices last seen over a decade ago in places like Japan and South Korea?
Sorry, it's just frustrating to see corporations abuse an entire nation of consumers and get away with it. Even if a newly elected government comes out and changes things, it's not like the ISPs are going to be forced to pay back the money they stole from their customers. | |
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El Quintron
Could you spare a consulting gig?
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Acanac
| Re: No need for "deep packet inspection" There's a major collusion issue going on in Canada that masquerades at competition.
I can hardly wait for the new cellphone providers to come in, I hope they make enough of a dent that the Big 4, will spend money competing rather than Lobbying...
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Working to bring you closer to a Bell and Rogers free household. | |
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NetAdmin
CCNA
join:2008-05-22
| said by SuperWISP :Folks, let's get real. First of all, there's no such thing as "deep packet inspection." Packets have no depth; they're one-dimensional strings of bits. And no one is "inspecting" the packets; a machine is gathering statistics on them. Wow, someone doesn't seem to know what he is talking about. Deep packet inspection refers to examine the content of the payload field of an IP packet as opposed to the traditional examination of the source, destination, port and protocol fields.
And the "inspection" in DPI has nothing to do with people looking at the data.
Sheesh.
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"This is a bus. You know how big a bus is?" | |
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El Quintron
Could you spare a consulting gig?
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Acanac
| Re: No need for "deep packet inspection" said by NetAdmin :Wow, someone doesn't seem to know what he is talking about. The problem is he does know what he's talking about, it's called spin and it's something he accuses everybody else but himself of doing.
Some business owners on these boards seem to think their responsibilities include snooping into the private business of their clients, and making sure their clients don't access materials that they find morally offensive either.
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Working to bring you closer to a Bell and Rogers free household. | |
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Mashiki
Balking The Enemy's Plans
join:2002-02-04
Woodstock, ON | Yay. The ignorant post of the day.
Did you know in Canada, that use of this is a violation of the privacy act. Just a thought. | |
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El Quintron
Could you spare a consulting gig?
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
1 edit | Re: No need for "deep packet inspection" There's no ignorance there, it's voluntary misinformation with intent of creating positive noise for his point of view...
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Working to bring you closer to a Bell and Rogers free household. | |
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Mashiki
Balking The Enemy's Plans
join:2002-02-04
Woodstock, ON | Re: No need for "deep packet inspection" Ignorance and misinformation go hand in hand in most cases. | |
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El Quintron
Could you spare a consulting gig?
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON | Re: No need for "deep packet inspection" Yeah, but misinformation could be construed as an "erroneous statement" in this case no error is being made. He's lying to sell his point of view.
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Working to bring you closer to a Bell and Rogers free household. | |
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zalternate
join:2007-02-22
BC
·TELUS
| HAcking What Rogers is doing is a form of Hacking. Others go to jail if caught.
Rogers on the other hand, just gives a bigger tip to their multiple seats that they own in the government of Canada.
Censorship runs rapid in Canada. So carriers like Rogers could easily remove content on Iran or North Korea. Or even stories about how Rogers is hacking conten
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Consumer Rights is more than just a suggestion. | |
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BabyPandaGuy
@rogers.com
| Rogers Security Suite a real life saver Rogers' did inject their security suite ad into one of the web sites I had browsed to while I was tinkering with the idea of using it, then, I got this wicked, evil worm, coupled with a Trojan, a keylogger and a few other nasty goodies, which immediately prompted Rogers to email me a warning about shutting down my IP address. No need to. I disconnected at once upon being aware of the damage, telephoned Rogers for advice, all the while trying to beat the malwares but to no avail, too tricky without outside help, so, formatted all three hard drives and reinstalled all windows with previously installed software minus malware. Thank goodness for regular backups and disk cloning software that had not been infected. It was an easy task, although i ran into a glitch with a WinXP Home reinstall on my wife's computer. Had to clear the valid WinXP software with MS before proceeding, it did not keep its former product key... Nasty, evil Malware, eh! All is now well in Eagle & Panda Land | |
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Rogers Still Injecting Content Over Sites
