 
tencz51
Kats The Man
Premium
join:2000-07-06
Ocala, FL |  really
which has sprint fastconnect , times warner and cox . but also some very dark un-serviceable spots in the mist of these 3 major concerns . hmmm ocala ,fl still lives in the 70 's | |
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Hardxx
join:2000-12-21
Norristown, PA | i am not a techie but.... This seems like a great start up business for a techie.
just my two cents | |
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Derek_Wildstar
Why the fck is Shane walking in there?
join:2001-02-24
Iscandar
| Re: i am not a techie but.... Yeah, if you can handle all of the customer service BS. Actually, I think a better application would be to have a landlord for a multi-unit office building run a T1 and offer the bandwidth as part of the rent. Maybe offer some greater incentive for office space in some of the old abandoned factories in towns like Cleveland, Youngstown, Toledo, Erie, Pittsburgh, Detroit, etc.
--
I use conjecture and hearsay. Those are kinds of evidence. - Lionel Hutz | |
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| | xrobertcmx
Premium
join:2001-06-18
Sterling, VA
clubs:  | Re: i am not a techie but.... I'll handle the CS, someone else handle the Tech. | |
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gtidsl
join:2000-07-29
Morristown, NJ
|  It would be nice... BUT
Id be selling this left and right if I could.... | |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | Re: It would be nice... BUT So you just hire some muscle to convince them that it's in their best interest to keep the pair in place.
Sillyhead.
--
The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it. | |
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| 
broadbndgeek
Premium
join:2000-08-03
Graham, WA | »www.foen.net is doing the something, except running ETTH. 100Mbps FDX to everyone.
--
insomnia has cause man to think more in deeply. | |
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| | skwahl
join:2000-11-13
Marietta, GA | Re: It would be nice... BUT broadbandgeek,
What is the story behind FOEN? Their page has no information at all. What are they and where are they?? | |
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| | | | Anon | Re: It would be nice... BUT it is fake, no such thing | |
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| | Network Guy
join:2000-08-25
New York | It's so nice of you to pull everyone's leg like that.  | |
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newisp$
join:2001-06-08
Orleans, VT
| I live in Verizon territory and we use "dry pairs" with no
problems. We have used Elastic Networks and Netopia routers
in a back to back configuration. Bridge taps are no problem
but coils will stop you dead (hence the 18,000 foot from the
CO limitation).
Remember to order a IDSN capable circuit (not a BANA) as the
term implies data. We have several running at this time with
no real problems to speak of.
One more thing, this is not new news. Marlon at odessa.com
wrote about this at least three years ago. He was doing it
back then. Glad to see PBS has caught up with him! | |
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| | 
fscavo2
join:2000-04-24
Irvine, CA | Re: It would be nice... BUT FYI, I am the original spotter of the Cringley article. Cringley himself already noted the Marlon article in his links page for his article. It is at »www.odessaoffice.com/sdsl.htm | |
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| 
Verizon Land
@198.138.x.x
| I am Verizon Land as well, and they will not disconnect if they find you are using dry pairs for data. You are paying for the pairs, you can use them for what you want. It's a very good idea actually, and it would work if it's put together right. | |
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| verizonlover
join:2001-06-13
Portsmouth, NH | that is not true. Verizon does not disconnect dry pairs if you run data on them. This is how HarvardNet ran their DSL in my town. | |
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| | Anon | FYI, It would be nice if you had dsl, let me tell you the parameters of dsl. First of all DSL can work over dry pairs that has voltage on it, just depends on who your Local DSL provider is. DSL will not work if you have load coils on your line, excess bridge tap (sometimes a bridge tap of a 100 feet can affect your line depending how well conditioned your line is) and footage has it's issue (it would depend on the length and also take in a big consideration what the guage is on the wire). And the terminology "dry pair" is just referring to companies outside of your local loop that using their copper line (your local company)without the dial tone on it. In other words a pair of wire with no dial tone on it. Which it doesn't really matter because DSL works @ a much higher frequency than your voice line (which has voltage on it). | |
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jdir
join:2001-05-04
Santa Clara, CA
| Get some outdoor CAT-5 cable
I've been testing this scheme out (indoor/outdoor)- works pretty well, anyone in the 95051 interest in this? | |
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rmarynowski
join:1999-08-26
Tinley Park, IL | Re: Get some outdoor CAT-5 cable Wait until the first lightning storm hits. You need to be sure to properly ground the setup that you are describing. | |
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| choey
join:2001-04-25
Annandale, VA | This isn't really feasible due the the cable limitations of CAT5. You can only have 100 meter lengths before the line starts to attenuate.. | |
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DSLJohnny
join:2001-01-25
Atlanta, GA
|  You can screw up your neighbor's service this way!
You better be careful! If your modems are 2B1Q SDSL, you may have wiped out all your neighbor's ISDN lines. If the modems are ADSL modems/DSLAM, you have killed alll your neighbor's ADSL sessions. You can't have a DSLAM (generator) at the far end of the loop, where there ae modems! SDSL does not have a good history of coexisting with ADSL either.
Did you think the RBOCs are just being mean? ( they are sometimes.... but) There is a good chance that you can seriously impair your neighbor's service (the people on the same cable bundle you are on) for these implementations.
It is no wonder they are extremely leery of this!
John | |
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| Network Guy
join:2000-08-25
New York
 ·PHONE POWER
·Broadvox Direct
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: You can screw up your neighbor's service this way! Umm.. While I may not have facts to back this, but I think you're wrong. I had both a SDSL line and a line-share ADSL line running to the same feed from my local pedestal, coming from the same NID for about three months, both worked fine. I don't really think deploying DSLAM's at any end of the loop would generate the kind of crosstalk to knock down sync on CPE's on the same trunk. ILEC's likely are anal about providing dry pairs because of reasons that the article explained. | |
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| | DSLJohnny
join:2001-01-25
Atlanta, GA
| Re: You can screw up your neighbor's service this way!
Is this why the ILECs are anal, do you suppose?
I can see it coming. It looks like ....somebody.... is going to have to start managing the spectral frequency on these lines. Probably the town council, right. Or maybe the party that owns the lines? Could get interesting.
John (and Roger) | |
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| | | Network Guy
join:2000-08-25
New York
·PHONE POWER
·Broadvox Direct
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: You can screw up your neighbor's service this way! said by DSLJohnny:
I can see it coming. It looks like ....somebody.... is going to have to start managing the spectral frequency on these lines. Probably the town council, right. Or maybe the party that owns the lines? Could get interesting.
Town council?? LOL.. For that, I might as well let the US government itself dictate who gets the spectrum. They'll just auction it off.. Then it becomes no fun, and most importantly, it becomes a non-profitable business model. Nah.. Keep it simple. If problems arise, then handle those accordingly. | |
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| | | pvbbdotnet
join:2001-04-12
Fairfield, CA
| I don't think Cringley is even talking about a loop to a CO - he's talking about a true dry pair, point-point circuit between two places, that does not pass through the CO. Literally, 2 pieces of wire. This would be nice if you could find a location with telco SDSL a few miles away (assuming you can't get it like me), and then setup a dry loop to bridge to your endpoint from the SDSL (assuming you can get a clean copper loop with no fiber, unlike me  ) | |
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| | | | Network Guy
join:2000-08-25
New York | Re: You can screw up your neighbor's service this way! Umm.. All loops at any end do end up at the CO, and then back out to the other end of it. CO also has to cross connect both loops together for a PTP line. | |
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ntguru911
join:2001-03-26
Powell, OH
| Re: You can screw up your neighbor's service this way! He's talking about running ETHERNET by installing his own copper from point to point. Problem is, you can only repeat once or twice past the 100m limit without terrible noise. Much better solution -- buy 100 mbps copper ethernet to fiber ethernet transceivers, get some fiber and do that. It will definitely cost more but you should be able to go up to 1 mile between transeivers. Fiber's about $.50/ft and transeivers $200 per end. | |
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| | | | | | Network Guy
join:2000-08-25
New York | Re: You can screw up your neighbor's service this way! Damn.. But that's still a high startup cost for a PTP fibre line, not including the drops at each node between transceivers. I'd say you'd be better off servicing a couple of subscribers within a mile radius via DSLAM's, grow from there. | |
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ntguru911
join:2001-03-26
Powell, OH | Re: You can screw up your neighbor's service this way! A new DSLAM will run you 50 large although I'm sure these days you could pick one up at fire sale prices. | |
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Abe Froman
join:2000-08-19
Dallas, TX | Yes, all pairs go through the CO. Unless of course they go to a DLC. At that point, the fiber goes to the CO. Looks like the guy at PBS forgot to mention all the DLC's that are out there. | |
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| | | | |
Not all Pairs
@141.153.x.x | Re: You can screw up your neighbor's service this way! Not all pairs return to the CO. There are pairs out there that are disconnected bt's. These are also dry pairs that can be used, so not all dry pairs return to the CO. | |
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| | | | | | Anon | Dry pairs (Aka alarm circuits) by definition do not go through a DLC - because very often they are used for alarm circuits which require a copper line which the alarm company monitors for continuity to verify it hasn't been cut.
And yes phone companies are required to have these All Copper circuits available for people to use for alarm systems. | |
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Abe Froman
join:2000-08-19
Dallas, TX
| I have the facts. Depending on the cable make up, multiple DSL's are not good in the same binder of a cable. T1's in a cable can also mess up the DSL signal.
I have installed "dry loops" for sneaky isp's. One outfit actually ordered one from an address in one wire center, to an address in the next wire center over. When the circuit goes through the eng. dept to be designed, it can either get to the other CO on a carrier (one channel of a T-1), or an old loaded trunk cable. This one in particular picked up the truck cable. I could tell the circuit was going to be used for a DSL of sorts, so I told the end user it wouldn't work. Of course it was our fault it wouldn't. | |
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lml2000
Whazzup
join:2000-08-17
Los Angeles, CA
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: You can screw up your neighbor's service this way! Abe:
First, for the benefit of others, all pairs run to and from the CO. That's why they're called loops. (Duh!). Of course the exception is when there are DLCs or more modern RTs along the loop, at which point copper provisioning ends at the DLC or RT.
Your assessment, Abe, was very similar to my own when I read the article. The first issue I saw was my big issue . . . distance. No dry pair will overcome a technological issue that the telco cannot overcome as well. I also considered other problems such as disturbers along the line that are likely to cause problems for that dry pair once it becomes "wet" with data. One just doesn't know if that dry pair you're getting runs in the same binder as a T1 and ISDN. Can we (cross) talk?
And should a problem occur in the line, I can only presume that the telco is not going to rush out to fix it as if it were a high margin T1 line. Furthermore, I can only imagine what kind of labor rates the telco is likely to charge since I willing to bet labor to repair dry pair lines doesn't necessarily fall under regulated utility charges.
Nevertheless, the article points out a viable solution to explore for a consumer whose CO is yet without DSLAM equipment, where all the issues raised above either don't exist or have been adequately addressed. | |
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AkumalDave
Life's A Beach
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-20
Minneapolis, MN
| Dry line, but nowhere to go... I've still got the old Northpoint dry pair run into my house, but Qwest won't touch it. It worked great for 784k SDSL for a whole 7 months or so.
What I really need is an article stating how to convince your local Telco into re-activating what's already in place.
Dave | |
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jkoering
join:2001-06-12
Chicago, IL
| Actually, it sounds a little shady.
Put one end of the circuit at your business. Put one end at your school. Put one end in the machine room at a local ISP.
Um, don't those parties OWN those extensions? Isn't that equivalent to stealing? Maybe I just don't understand what this guy is saying. | |
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| Network Guy
join:2000-08-25
New York | Re: Actually, it sounds a little shady. Umm.. Yeah.. I'm sure he meant through agreements with all parties involved, and I'm sure through some kind of monetary incentive. | |
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| biscuitsjam
join:2000-09-03
Marietta, GA
| Re: Good idea.. But... Well, I've run a network of 20 people off a 1.5/256 ADSL line for some time now, so I know a few of the problems involved.
First of all, if you are talking about using DSL for all these people, it won't work. You are talking 2 SDSL modems (2x$300 ea.) plus a dry pair (~$30/m ea.) plus your SDSL line ($180/m?) Startup cost - at least $6000. Monthly cost - at least $480/m. Income - $250/m if you can actually collect.
You are probably talking more about having a wireless link to your neighbors then. Then the price is just the WAP ($250) plus a high-gain antenna ($?) plus your monthly DSL bill. You could make some money this way, though you would be in the hole for several months.
There are a lot of problems in administering a network. The primary one is bandwidth sharing. A simple bridge is going to cause a nightmare. High bandwidth activity (read file sharing) would basically monopolize the network. You have to ban it altogether (which might piss off your customers), limit it's hours, or set up some kind of router (linux?) with bandwidth shaping features. There are also a number of other problems: you have to deal with users that may be misconfigured and messing up the network and, perhaps most importantly, you are liable for their actions.
In summary, private DSL is really only practical for businesses and hobbyists. Wireless internet access is perfectly possible (and even potentially profitable), but only on a small scale (due to bandwidth limitations), and only with the input of a lot of time and knowledge.
-Biscuits | |
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| | Network Guy
join:2000-08-25
New York
·PHONE POWER
·Broadvox Direct
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Good idea.. But... Yeah.. I realize the challenges, or drawbacks for that matter, of providing your own local DSL, as per this article. For that little monthly fee I propose to impose, in comparison to average monthly access fees that most ISP's charge, subscribers can't expect stellar performance nor the popular perks of a typical ISP. I do realize that load balancing would be a trivial issue, especially for some that think running Morpheus all day is cool because they're paying for it. It just seems like an enticing project to indulge in, not just for the potential revenue that could be had, but for the actual experience of running your own shop. While wireless may seem like a better solution due to it's native bandwidth limitation and ease of setup, you also forget the potential for theft of service. As far I know, these 802.11b manufacturers haven't come up with a decoding scheme to only allow authorized receivers to link in to a particular transceiver, other than the transceiver handshaking with compatible 802.11b cards in a given reception area. In the configuration realm of things, wireless nodes can invoke as much hell as Ethernet connections would unless the 802.11b standard doesn't bump off duplicate address nodes in a given segment. Something to test, perhaps? I do feel very compelled to do further research on a project like this. I'm a technology enthusiast at heart, and I feel there's nothing better than to indulge myself into an excellent learning opportunity, let alone some extra cash on the side even if it takes a while to take off. | |
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| Anon | It could work, BUT.... | |
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| johnflem
join:2000-01-07
Plainfield, IL
| Re: It could work, BUT.... In my hood, Ameriwreck wants $1200/mo to my house for T1..
I can find it for $800 Fractional/Burstable...
Let's assume $50/mo (in my area they're desperate!)
50=$2500/mo... I buy the line, do I need one of these $300 modems for -each- user, or do they all patch in to 1?
If not, then even if I have to lease some space ($800/mo?)
and pay electric ($100/mo?)
I'm still (2500-($15 for each line *50)-800-100) at breakeven.. anything else, profit of $35/mo/user? | |
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newisp$
join:2001-06-08
Orleans, VT
| Re: It could work, BUT.... You should also factor in the cost of the "dry pair" which
where I live (Verizon Land) is $51.00/month with a $200.00
installation fee. And by the way, once the installation is
done, if it won't carry data, that's your problem. We eat
one in four (or so). Somehow the profit doesn't seem to be
as exciting as your numbers would show. | |
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Already Caught
@va.sprint-hsd | Get DSL Go To Jail ?? Interesting article, but got nailed in 1998 for using a dry loop from my office T-1 to feed my house 4K away. The State Commission came down hard. Not allowed under tariffs. | |
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See 11 replies to this post |
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| Anon | What sort of distances are we talking? What kind of distances could you get between the two locations if you can set this up? | |
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newisp$
join:2001-06-08
Orleans, VT | Re: What sort of distances are we talking? The best I'm aware of is 18,000 feet from the Telco's
Central Office. After that you will usually run into
the dreaded coils. | |
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BrianDamage
We Are The Hounds From Hell
Premium
join:2001-08-14
Rowlett, TX
clubs:
| Don't get all excited!! Nice story in theory, but....
This guy is leaving out many points of concern. I can say that from a technical standpoint, and someone in the DSL biz, that this won't work the way it is dated herein.
It does not take provisioning, turnup, or any other factor into account.
It also does not address bridge taps, load coils, distance, or conditioning into account.
If it was that easy to create a "turn-key" ISP, then there would be lots of them. I would own one of them.
But it's not that easy to delegate high bandwidth, especially the way Cringeley describes. Don't know who is friends are, but he is obviously not a tech, and his friends left out a lot of details. | |
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See 6 replies to this post |
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SPOCK
@aol.com
| NCC-1701 "Kirk to Enterprise"
"ENTERPRISE" here!!!!
"KIRK" Scotty Lock Phasers on ROBERT X CRINGLEY and FIRE!!!!
"SCOTTY" CAPTAIN !!!!........ TARGET HAS BEEN DESTORYED.
"KIRK" Thank God!
TO BOLDLY GO WHERE NO MAN HAS GONE BEFORE.......... | |
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Jacob
join:2000-11-28
Los Gatos, CA
| Not a new idea
I'll find the link on his server.
--
Cluck...SSH!...CLUCK! | |
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fscavo2
join:2000-04-24
Irvine, CA | Re: Not a new idea Cringley himself already noted the Marlon article in his links page. It is at »www.odessaoffice.com/sdsl.htm | |
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| | Jacob
join:2000-11-28
Los Gatos, CA | Re: Not a new idea Hmm... I remember a different (longer) page. Oh well  .
--
Cluck...SSH!...CLUCK! | |
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deramon
join:2000-09-20
White Plains, NY
clubs:
| Good idea and good comments Thanks to all for the discussion and to the spotter. Gave me some fun for a few minutes thinking how to do it and mess with my isp.
--
My diary at;
»/dsl_diary/other/204888 | |
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boogie74
join:2001-06-19
Neenah, WI
clubs:
| Isn't this stealing?? It isn't about the telco's not wanting you competing- it's not legal under current tariffs (and these aren't written by the telco's).
A better idea- move next door to your local school, police dept., insurance company, etc and break into the place- plug in a CAT5 cable into their router switch and run that to your house- plug that into the uplink on your hub and you are in business- hell- you can get Frame Relay in some instances for free- 150Mbps- that's legal...
But don't let the telco's find out- cuz they don't want you to have free DSL??? I am a bit lost as to the logic in this, and how it isn't stealing service.
Don't let the telco's find out, but if you can plug a regular modular plug into the NID at someone's house, you can get free POTS service- but they don't want you to figure that out, cuz they want to charge you another whole $12 per month for this...
Give me a break...
Boogie74 | |
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fscavo2
join:2000-04-24
Irvine, CA
| Re: Isn't this stealing?? Let's see...if I own a business and have business DSL or a T1 in that office, and I then lease a dry pair from my office to my home and roll my own DSL between my home and my office...is that stealing? I pay for my office connectivity and I pay for the dry pair to my home. What exactly am I stealing? | |
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boogie74
join:2001-06-19
Neenah, WI
clubs:
| Re: Isn't this stealing?? said by fscavo:
Let's see...if I own a business and have business DSL or a T1 in that office, and I then lease a dry pair from my office to my home and roll my own DSL between my home and my office...is that stealing? I pay for my office connectivity and I pay for the dry pair to my home. What exactly am I stealing?
You wouldn't be stealing then, no. What the article advocated doing was to go to your place of employment (not a small home owned business) or local school, library or other "internet connection" and just plug into their router switch from there.
It never mentioned connecting to your own T1 or T3 connection at another location- it specifically said to just "Put one end of the circuit at your business. Put one end at your school. Put one end in the machine room at a local ISP," insinuating that these sources will give you free reign to their own internet connection.
He then goes on to state "Of course the local telephone companies hate this whole idea because they want to sell you that T-1 line for $500-600 per month. That's why they will tell you dry pairs don't exist when they usually do exist. And that's why phone companies are trying to get rid of dry pairs as quickly as they can."
Now wouldn't they already be getting the $$$ for the connection you are piggy-backing off of? Is he not stating a point that approaches saying that the local telco's are going to try to get rid of LAN's too since they aren't getting $$$ for each individual computer connection? In effect, this is pretty much what you are doing...
Besides which, if you called up to the local telco, they wouldn't sell you a dry pair for residential use (unless it is an off prem extension- and that would only give you dial-tone in your barn or un-attatched garage... really useful there) because they aren't tariffed to sell them- just like you won't get a centrex switch setup for residential use either- they aren't tariffed to sell it residential... not because they want you to not know that it exists, but because they JUST DON'T SELL IT. Consumer accounts don't have a use for dry pairs like that- they aren't sold to consumers for that reason. Greed?? No. Try renting a store space in a shopping mall for the same price as a small 1 bedroom apartment. You won't get it- not because the shopping mall doesn't want you to think it is available. You won't get it because people don't live in shopping mall stores- despite how many times you've seen it done on "Saved By the Bell".
If you want to sell internet access legally, you must file the proper tariffs and go through the proper channels. If you try to skirt that, then you are doing something WRONG.
Boogie74 | |
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pupowski$
join:2001-01-15
Atlantis
| Re: Isn't this stealing?? said by boogie74:
If you want to sell internet access legally, you must file the proper tariffs and go through the proper channels. If you try to skirt that, then you are doing something WRONG.
As a practical matter,is the premise of tiny, economical ISP's workable? Many inner cities have buildings with commercial space below and apartments above, with dry pairs available. If "Boogie Gardens" owner included BB in rent for 20 apartments and four stores, would his ISP save much $$ over SBC's best alternative,in your opinion?
--
Pupowski
"Revolution is just evolution with more bandwidth" | |
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boogie74
join:2001-06-19
Neenah, WI
clubs:
| Re: Isn't this stealing?? said by pupowski:
said by boogie74:
If you want to sell internet access legally, you must file the proper tariffs and go through the proper channels. If you try to skirt that, then you are doing something WRONG.
As a practical matter,is the premise of tiny, economical ISP's workable? Many inner cities have buildings with commercial space below and apartments above, with dry pairs available. If "Boogie Gardens" owner included BB in rent for 20 apartments and four stores, would his ISP save much $$ over SBC's best alternative,in your opinion?
I am not knowledgeable enough to supply an answer with much clout on that question... depends on lots of things- mainly the cost of getting his original internet connection. Using the "suggested" route of taking a dry pair and hooking into someone else's ISP connection (like the suggestion of hooking into the equipment room of a local ISP), of course you would make money (assuming that the dry pair runs less than $30-50 per month, as it would cause a loss of money if you charged $30-50 per month for ISP service and paid, say $55 for the dry pair). You have to also think about the fact that you will have ZERO tech support, because there would be no way to test the connection online.
What if the company you are hooked up to decides to move locations one day. Or maybe they might close down due to bankruptcy. Now you are at the root of lawsuits from your tenants because you aren't delivering on your promise for ISP service, NOR are you able to explain why (as you offered the service sans-regulatory approval of any kind and sans-permission from the ISP you are stealing from).
I wouldn't go to venture that SBC is always the best alternative- that is why there is competition (be it cable, other DSL providers, satellite, etc). What I believe (IMHO) is causing the majority of the ISP failures and CLEC failures such as Rythms and Northpoint and Covad, et al, is the fact that 1. They are all relying on price as the major attraction to switch to them. 2. The CLEC's that are failing aren't offering retail DSL in most situations, rather wholesale to smaller ISP's- so when the ISP goes down because they don't charge enough- the CLEC loses customers, hence will eventually go down. 3. They are failing in an economic slowdown with no (a) money in the bank to survive it and (b) no experience in how to survive an economic slowdown in the first place. The majority of the failed ISP's and CLEC's were run with a huge investor contribution and ZERO customer support to back it up- coupled with the want to expand more quickly than they could afford- they are going to go down- it's inevitable.
In closing, if "Boogie Gardens" were to offer Boogie Broadband included in the rent, they had better up the rent by more than what they think the consumer or business tenant "wants" to pay- small ISP's aren't economically feasible- they don't know how much the stuff REALLY costs to provide. Plus, in inner city situations, what is the collection ratio for apartments anyways- do they collect on all bad debt?? The last thing you want in any business is more customers that don't pay their bill than do.
Boogie74 | |
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pupowski$
join:2001-01-15
Atlantis
| Re: Isn't this stealing?? said by boogie74:
IWhat I believe (IMHO) is causing the majority of the ISP failures and CLEC failures such as Rythms and Northpoint and Covad, et al, is the fact that 1. They are all relying on price as the major attraction to switch to them. 2. The CLEC's that are failing aren't offering retail DSL in most situations
I agree, the margins are too thin. And competing on price alone is rough, better to have a few features customers can't find elsewhere. In this area, renters often have TV included, because cable gives owners bulk rates. Pay for view offsets the price,as do economies of scale. They might as well toss in basic BB,since TV comes down the same pipe. I don't think too many apartment owners will start ISP's, they have enough things to fix.
--
Pupowski
"Revolution is just evolution with more bandwidth" | |
|
DSLSucksEver
@rr.com | DSL Technology just plain sucks Just give it up! As long as The Bells are in on this, you guys will suffer the DSL Nightmare.... you are on for one month, then Covad goes out. You are on another month, then that provider goes out. Get Cable if you can. DSL is a mess! | |
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| DJStarfox
join:2000-07-05
Orlando, FL
|  Re: DSL Technology just plain sucks
[text was edited by author 2001-08-24 21:39:27] | |
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Netbars
join:2001-02-09
Bronx, NY
| Re: DSL Technology just plain sucks for what it's worth, there is no slowdown for Verizon 600/80 users. Except if you live in Brooklyn. Rock solid, and no downtimes from the maintenance crap. I guess it means they don't maintain the lines? Oh well, i'm content with my 62 kb/s down and 10 up.
Broadband is sooooooo cool! | |
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Jon Geb
Wal-Mart Sucks
join:2001-01-09
Howell, MI | Not if Charter is your Cable Co. | |
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pupowski$
join:2001-01-15
Atlantis
| Re: DSL Technology just plain sucks said by Jon Geb:
Not if Charter is your Cable Co.
Charter just built what appears to be a regional service center, a mile from my home. This is AT&T territory, and they can't compete over-building, so I wonder why it's here. If AT%T sold this area to Charter, a lot of people would be unhappy.
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Pupowski
"Revolution is just evolution with more bandwidth" | |
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bah
join:2001-04-22
Brooklyn, NY | LOL That "story" made for a good read. But come on!! here in verizon land, thats just a TALL tail | |
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Cisco could make it possible.