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Rural User Fuses EDGE & HughesNet
Makes the most of broadband in the boondocks...
by Karl Bode 11:15AM Tuesday Sep 11 2007
Click for full size
You make the most of what you've got. And in the case of one rural user in our forums, that just happens to be HughesNet satellite service and AT&T's wireless "broadband" EDGE network. HughesNet, of course, comes with daily download caps and AT&T's EDGE delivers 200kbps of speed on a good day. Together, however, they almost deliver this user something vaguely resembling broadband.

The user lives in the country but manages servers elsewhere. EDGE, even with latency of 230 - 270 ms, offered less bandwidth but quicker response time, so he uses it for https connections and terminal services. Said user quickly grew tired of having to switch connections so he came up with a homebrew solution:
quote:
Click for full size
"First I set up a Top Global MB6800 router with an Option GT Max 7.2 ready card. This was kind of OK, but with a medium to poor signal, unreliable. So I direct connected a Wilson dual band amplifier and a 13 dbi Yagi 850 MHz antenna on the roof. Perfect! Solid as a rock, and with careful pointing, an excellent steady signal strength.

But how to make it seamless between the two networks for all machines on the LAN? For this I use pfSense, with one WAN port for the HN satellite, a second WAN port for the EDGE. Ports 23, 25, 53 (supporting a caching DNS server on the network), 110, 443, 3389, 8080 and a couple of others specific to my work are routed over the low latency EDGE; everything else, particularly web sites and downloads are on HN satellite."
He's now essentially got the "best" of both worlds until something better comes along.

view:
topics flat nest 

L337
Premium
join:2005-03-10
Chicago, IL

Too bad he don't got dsl

Haha niceee

SlickEnW
Premium
join:2003-01-21
Seattle, WA

Wow.

Thats pretty intuitive.

I'd probably would have moved or not been there in the first place, as my first question is usually "who services this place and do they have internet", especially since my job requires me to SSH into a server for maintenance and large downloads.

verolom

join:2002-03-23
Reston, VA

Re: Wow.

Speaking of a job, someone should hire that guy. He made lemonade from lemons, that requires talent in this telecom world.
Drakemoore

join:2005-02-03
Hawthorne, FL

1 recommendation

To ISP's

If you don't build it. They will home brew it

FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

Re: To ISP's

said by Drakemoore:

If you don't build it. They will home brew it
True. But how many will go to this much trouble - 1 in a million customers?
--
--
Internet News
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My Web Page

jtudor
Xm 60's On 6 Freak
Premium,MVM
join:2002-12-07
Morganton, NC

How Long

I just wonder how long it will be until one or both of them decide that he is violating the TOS, and terminate his service?

Also how long it will be until someone here decides to tell him that he needs to buy a business connection if he is doing any business at home??

I manage servers and desktops from home on occasion (nights, weekends, holidays) using Dameware, and have been told in some forums here that I should be using a business DSL account instead of a residential account, because I am doing business from home.

Otherwise, I applaud his resourcefulness!!
--
Best of luck

"Do, or Do not, there is no try!" Yoda


twizlar
I dont think so.
Premium
join:2003-12-24
Brantford, ON
kudos:3

Re: How Long

said by jtudor:

I manage servers and desktops from home on occasion (nights, weekends, holidays) using Dameware, and have been told in some forums here that I should be using a business DSL account instead of a residential account, because I am doing business from home.

Otherwise, I applaud his resourcefulness!!
True that, some people are narrow sighted idiots, what can you do. The ONLY advantage of most business accounts is an SLA of somesort(usually crappy anyways).
--
AMD Athlon64 4000+ @ 2723mhz - mountaincable.net wireless Intarweb |
Ipods SUCK
mikefxu

join:2004-10-05
Titusville, FL

1 edit
Yes you should pay more because it says "business" in the name of the title. Pay for what you need, if you need faster speeds and they only offer it on "business" service levels, go for it, other wise keep what works and is cheap.

We pay for "business class" road runner and they told us it would take a week to fix lines they don't know how to run properly, We paying more for the same residential service for what reason?
Joe12345678

join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL
said by jtudor:

I just wonder how long it will be until one or both of them decide that he is violating the TOS, and terminate his service?

Also how long it will be until someone here decides to tell him that he needs to buy a business connection if he is doing any business at home??

I manage servers and desktops from home on occasion (nights, weekends, holidays) using Dameware, and have been told in some forums here that I should be using a business DSL account instead of a residential account, because I am doing business from home.

Otherwise, I applaud his resourcefulness!!
A business account may have more upload speed.

twizlar
I dont think so.
Premium
join:2003-12-24
Brantford, ON
kudos:3

Re: How Long

said by Joe12345678:

said by jtudor:

I just wonder how long it will be until one or both of them decide that he is violating the TOS, and terminate his service?

Also how long it will be until someone here decides to tell him that he needs to buy a business connection if he is doing any business at home??

I manage servers and desktops from home on occasion (nights, weekends, holidays) using Dameware, and have been told in some forums here that I should be using a business DSL account instead of a residential account, because I am doing business from home.

Otherwise, I applaud his resourcefulness!!
A business account may have more upload speed.
Meh, sometimes.
--
AMD Athlon64 4000+ @ 2723mhz - mountaincable.net wireless Intarweb |
Ipods SUCK

dcdeadbeat

@covad.net

there is a much easier way to do this

Why didn't you just use a SonicWall TZ190 router with built in WWAN and multiple WAN load-balancing.

It does what you want automatically.

Silly people trying to make life difficult.

fcisler
Premium
join:2004-06-14
Riverhead, NY

Re: there is a much easier way to do this

said by dcdeadbeat :

Why didn't you just use a SonicWall TZ190 router with built in WWAN and multiple WAN load-balancing.

It does what you want automatically.

Silly people trying to make life difficult.
Possibly because pfSense is free and has many, many more features than SonicWall can offer?

Can the sonicwall route based upon destination IP/Port?

Making life difficult? No

Saving money? Yes

And Are you F'ing nuts? $630 and up?!?!?! Yeah...where a WRAP (looks like what he has) is about $175 MAX (no longer being made) or a Soekris is $150 - $250?

Yes...I think he is trying to make it "harder"
jdjbuffalo

join:2004-01-17
Denver, CO
I agree using a dual WAN router is the way to go if you want an easier solution than this guy jerry-rigged.

However, I have to disagree with your recommendation to use a Sonicwall product. From personal experience configuring several, I have to say they are a POS.

fcisler
Premium
join:2004-06-14
Riverhead, NY

1 edit

Re: there is a much easier way to do this

I'd really have to suggest you go see what pfSense is before calling it "jerry-rigged":

»www.pfsense.com/index.php?id=27

Check out some of the screenshots there

sporkme
drop the crantini and move it, sister
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-01
Morristown, NJ
said by dcdeadbeat :

Why didn't you just use a SonicWall TZ190 router with built in WWAN and multiple WAN load-balancing.
You're missing the point. The SonicWall can't selectively send traffic out different interfaces like this guy requires. He wants traffic that requires low-latency and little bandwidth to go over the EDGE connection and bulk delay-insensitive traffic to go over the satellite. The SonicWall can't do this, nor can it be modified to do it.

DaveDD

@krline.net
The Top Global MB6800 has a 1 x 4 switch built in. Their latest firmware support auto-failover between WAN and WWAN. An advanced version called the MB6800P can do load balance.

TechieZero
Tools Are Using Me
Premium
join:2002-01-25
Gibsonton, FL

How much?

I wonder what his bill is?

hitman_001
Premium
join:2006-11-20
Laredo, TX

Re: How much?

Welp the satellite runs 60+ a month depending on plan, not sure how much ATT charges but its probably in the ballpark of 59.99 to 79.99 a month. Your looking at ~120.00 plus a month to get a connection that "resembles" broadband, and still has the bandwidth caps and latency issues.
--
Hn7000s Small Office plan/.74m dish & 1Watt Trans on Satmex 5 Signal: 86/Win XP Pro SP2/P4 3gig, 2Gigs Ram, Radeon X1300 500meg video
Ahrenl

join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA

Re: How much?

Nah, AT&T data plan is +$30 to +$40 for unlimted. If he can convince them he has a smartphone, then it's only like $10 or $15.

hitman_001
Premium
join:2006-11-20
Laredo, TX

Re: How much?

The Data plan part was a guesstimation, I know sprint and verizon are around 59.99 and verizon just recently went to that pricing. Its been a few years since i've used cingular/Att for data.
--
Hn7000s Small Office plan/.74m dish & 1Watt Trans on Satmex 5 Signal: 86/Win XP Pro SP2/P4 3gig, 2Gigs Ram, Radeon X1300 500meg video

MoJeeper
The Stig in 2012
Premium
join:2000-10-20
Springfield, MO
59.95 Unlimited

STrRedWolf

join:2006-06-18
Severn, MD

Penguins?

Sounds like he could of used a Linux distro for the router.

sporkme
drop the crantini and move it, sister
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-01
Morristown, NJ

Re: Penguins?

said by STrRedWolf:

Sounds like he could of used a Linux distro for the router.
Why? Just so he could say "it runs Linux"?

This post brought to you by PFSense.

jgkolt
Premium
join:2004-02-21
Avon, OH

wow

I will say this guy is truly resourceful. Now he needs to get evdo rev A and see how his speeds are. THis is assuming he gets coverage out there.

hitman_001
Premium
join:2006-11-20
Laredo, TX

Re: wow

in 90% of the cases if a person could get EVDO they wouldnt need the satellite. If you are a freak about download speeds, some areas are more congested on EVDO and offer less bandwidth. However if you live out in unserved areas.. your really not used to getting much of that to begin with. So having the two would be pointless, because you'd have your speed and your much lower latency all in one, and still cut your internet bill in half.
--
Hn7000s Small Office plan/.74m dish & 1Watt Trans on Satmex 5 Signal: 86/Win XP Pro SP2/P4 3gig, 2Gigs Ram, Radeon X1300 500meg video
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS

cheap housing/land

One reason for living in the boondocks is simple:
cheap land, housing and low taxes (ususally), but the "finer things in life" come at a distance premium such as cheap broadband and... Garbage collection, in many rural areas, you haul your own trash to the recycling center & dump.

Another downside.. is that your nearest fire dept, ambulance and hospital could be 45+minutes away, so if you have an extreme emergency, you may be SOL.
Nuts65

join:2006-04-27
Forest, OH

Re: cheap housing/land

Garbage, that's what the burn pile is for.
PDXPLT

join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR
said by tmc8080:

One reason for living in the boondocks is simple:
cheap land, housing and low taxes (ususally), but the "finer things in life" come at a distance premium such as cheap broadband and... Garbage collection, in many rural areas, you haul your own trash to the recycling center & dump.

Another downside.. is that your nearest fire dept, ambulance and hospital could be 45+minutes away, so if you have an extreme emergency, you may be SOL.
LOL, I wish broadband penetration was as good as that for trash collection and emergency services.

We have weekly trash pickup on our block, and the nearest fire station is just down the road. But Verizon's too busy deploying fiber to the most affluent communities in the county, and has stopped deploying DSL to anyone here.
kwayzcat

join:2002-10-22
Chicago, IL

PFSense is awesome

PFSense is a FREE, full featured routing platform that runs on regular x86 hardware. It has the features of enterprise appliances that cost thousands of dollars. This is a very interesting implementation of dual-wan on PFsense.

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PfSense

dcdeadbeat

@covad.net

sonicwall tz190 is still the way to go

It features failover, spillover, and load-balancing. And it's very easy to use. That software you mention is just crapware. Go with a company like SonicWall, set it and forget it.

I have used this product in dozens of clients. if they need more power and flexibility, then I take them up to Cisco grade equipment. I don't care what anyone says about software and a rigged together system. Hardware works 24/7. Software...well ...it works when it works. And when it doesn't...then you should have cracked open the wallet. He did say he was using it for work. So get your work to pay for it.

Lazy beats free any day of the week!!!!!!
cmaenginsb1
Premium
join:2001-03-19
Palmdale, CA

Re: sonicwall tz190 is still the way to go

Actually both the Sonicwall and Cisco's you mention are just modified versions of Linux software.

Sonicwall is a joke, used to recommend them to customers but after being screwed too many times it find it better to use something like PFSense. For l0sers like you who have to have Sonicwall, just modify the web interface so it looks like one and pocket the extra $400 or so it costs.
--
CCNA, Comtrain Certified Tower Climber
quantumvoice

join:2006-11-17
Ann Arbor, MI

Re: sonicwall tz190 is still the way to go

Actually, if he is referring to Cisco PIX, it is not "linux" based. You may be confused with Cisco's consumer/SOHO grade products from Linksys or it is a recent development.

However, the general point you were trying to make regarding PFSense is valid--both PIX and Sonicwall are software-based.

The functionality is derived from a general purpose CPU and not specialized hardware that provides application-specific functionality which is provided by an ASIC, DSP, etc.

However, even supposedly "hardware" solutions require robust firmware ("software") to exploit their potential.

sporkme
drop the crantini and move it, sister
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-01
Morristown, NJ
said by dcdeadbeat :

It features failover, spillover, and load-balancing. And it's very easy to use. That software you mention is just crapware. Go with a company like SonicWall, set it and forget it.
It takes a whole lotta stupid to be that mad at something that's free and offers more features.
--
Dogma is the problem.

•••

LordFlux

join:2005-04-20

1 edit

I feel your pain...

I've been on the Internet since '96 and have been using a 28.8k modem since then up until early this year when we got a Kyocera KPC650 and KR1 Router to use on the Alltel 1xRTT network. Why use a 28.8k instead of a 56k? Ask BellSouth/AT&T... they've been out to the house 4 or 5 times testing my line and they don't understand why my 56k modem won't connect.

Anyway, that's all behind me now... because the area is now EVDO Rev A and we're *flying* at a blazing 500-800kb/sec download rate and a 400ms ping time. Granted, my card is only Rev 0, but I just bought a KPC680 and it should be here next week... Rev A here I come! 1mbit?!?! 300ms ping time?! OMG! I wet myself!

Us rural users take what we can get... which is why I went ahead and had Cox installed in my new house. Moving out of my parents house when I get married in 59 days.

dcdeadbeat

@covad.net

you are all missing the point here--this is not new news

Whether it is Linux or some freeware/crapware based product, the point is that this is not news. Many people are already doing this type of fancy load-balancing, failover, and broadband connection sharing.

This guy should not be given any coverage. Now if he had found a way to combine multiple EDGE connections(while only being charged for one) thereby giving him something closer to broadband, then he should receive coverage.

In other words what I am talking about is using the mesh of cell-phone towers in a given area and creating connections with all of them to form one massive pipe.

Now that would be news worthy. Not some rual user using a router and two internet connections. Been done over and over before. Let's get something new going here.

And for those that called me ignorant: I use Redhat Linux on a daily basis on hundreds of severs. But guess what servers always get hacked....the Linux boxes running freeware. Why because it is free, hackers have access to it. Make it expensive and the hackers can't afford access to it and therefore expensive, proprietary stuff stays hack-free more often.

•••••