Rural User Fuses EDGE & HughesNetMakes the most of broadband in the boondocks... ( old news - 11:15AM Tuesday Sep 11 2007) tags: satellite · coverage · wireless · alternatives · bandwidth · networking · HughesNet Satellite Broadband · Cingular WirelessYou make the most of what you've got. And in the case of one rural user in our forums, that just happens to be HughesNet satellite service and AT&T's wireless "broadband" EDGE network. HughesNet, of course, comes with daily download caps and AT&T's EDGE delivers 200kbps of speed on a good day. Together, however, they almost deliver this user something vaguely resembling broadband. The user lives in the country but manages servers elsewhere. EDGE, even with latency of 230 - 270 ms, offered less bandwidth but quicker response time, so he uses it for https connections and terminal services. Said user quickly grew tired of having to switch connections so he came up with a homebrew solution: "First I set up a Top Global MB6800 router with an Option GT Max 7.2 ready card. This was kind of OK, but with a medium to poor signal, unreliable. So I direct connected a Wilson dual band amplifier and a 13 dbi Yagi 850 MHz antenna on the roof. Perfect! Solid as a rock, and with careful pointing, an excellent steady signal strength. But how to make it seamless between the two networks for all machines on the LAN? For this I use pfSense, with one WAN port for the HN satellite, a second WAN port for the EDGE. Ports 23, 25, 53 (supporting a caching DNS server on the network), 110, 443, 3389, 8080 and a couple of others specific to my work are routed over the low latency EDGE; everything else, particularly web sites and downloads are on HN satellite." He's now essentially got the "best" of both worlds until something better comes along.
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L337
Premium
join:2005-03-10
Chicago, IL | Too bad he don't got dsl Haha niceee | |
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Eddyisgreat
Premium
join:2003-01-21
Seattle, WA
clubs:
 ·Comcast
| Wow. Thats pretty intuitive.
I'd probably would have moved or not been there in the first place, as my first question is usually "who services this place and do they have internet", especially since my job requires me to SSH into a server for maintenance and large downloads. | |
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verolom
join:2002-03-23
Eatontown, NJ | Re: Wow. Speaking of a job, someone should hire that guy. He made lemonade from lemons, that requires talent in this telecom world. | |
| Drakemoore
join:2005-02-03
Hawthorne, FL | To ISP's If you don't build it. They will home brew it | |
| | 
TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast
| Re: To ISP's said by Drakemoore  :If you don't build it. They will home brew it True. But how many will go to this much trouble - 1 in a million customers?
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Internet News
My BLOG
My Web Page | |
| 
jtudor
Xm 60's On 6 Freak
Premium,MVM
join:2002-12-07
Morganton, NC
 ·AT&T Southeast
|  How Long
Also how long it will be until someone here decides to tell him that he needs to buy a business connection if he is doing any business at home??
I manage servers and desktops from home on occasion (nights, weekends, holidays) using Dameware, and have been told in some forums here that I should be using a business DSL account instead of a residential account, because I am doing business from home.
Otherwise, I applaud his resourcefulness!!
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Best of luck
"Do, or Do not, there is no try!" Yoda
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twizlar
I dont think so.
Premium
join:2003-12-24
Brantford, ON
·Mountain Cable
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: How Long said by jtudor :I manage servers and desktops from home on occasion (nights, weekends, holidays) using Dameware, and have been told in some forums here that I should be using a business DSL account instead of a residential account, because I am doing business from home. Otherwise, I applaud his resourcefulness!! True that, some people are narrow sighted idiots, what can you do. The ONLY advantage of most business accounts is an SLA of somesort(usually crappy anyways).
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AMD Athlon64 4000+ @ 2723mhz - mountaincable.net wireless Intarweb |
Ipods SUCK | |
| | mikefxu
join:2004-10-05
Titusville, FL
edit:
September 11th, @11:47AM
| Yes you should pay more because it says "business" in the name of the title. Pay for what you need, if you need faster speeds and they only offer it on "business" service levels, go for it, other wise keep what works and is cheap.
We pay for "business class" road runner and they told us it would take a week to fix lines they don't know how to run properly, We paying more for the same residential service for what reason? | |
| | Joe12345678
join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL
| said by jtudor :I just wonder how long it will be until one or both of them decide that he is violating the TOS, and terminate his service? Also how long it will be until someone here decides to tell him that he needs to buy a business connection if he is doing any business at home?? I manage servers and desktops from home on occasion (nights, weekends, holidays) using Dameware, and have been told in some forums here that I should be using a business DSL account instead of a residential account, because I am doing business from home. Otherwise, I applaud his resourcefulness!! A business account may have more upload speed. | |
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twizlar
I dont think so.
Premium
join:2003-12-24
Brantford, ON
·Mountain Cable
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: How Long said by Joe12345678 :said by jtudor :I just wonder how long it will be until one or both of them decide that he is violating the TOS, and terminate his service? Also how long it will be until someone here decides to tell him that he needs to buy a business connection if he is doing any business at home?? I manage servers and desktops from home on occasion (nights, weekends, holidays) using Dameware, and have been told in some forums here that I should be using a business DSL account instead of a residential account, because I am doing business from home. Otherwise, I applaud his resourcefulness!! A business account may have more upload speed. Meh, sometimes.
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AMD Athlon64 4000+ @ 2723mhz - mountaincable.net wireless Intarweb |
Ipods SUCK | |
| 
dcdeadbeat
@insidehighered.com |  there is a much easier way to do this
It does what you want automatically.
Silly people trying to make life difficult. | |
| | 
fcisler
Premium
join:2004-06-14
Riverhead, NY
| Re: there is a much easier way to do this said by dcdeadbeat :
Why didn't you just use a SonicWall TZ190 router with built in WWAN and multiple WAN load-balancing.
It does what you want automatically.
Silly people trying to make life difficult.
Possibly because pfSense is free and has many, many more features than SonicWall can offer?
Can the sonicwall route based upon destination IP/Port?
Making life difficult? No
Saving money? Yes
And Are you F'ing nuts? $630 and up?!?!?! Yeah...where a WRAP (looks like what he has) is about $175 MAX (no longer being made) or a Soekris is $150 - $250?
Yes...I think he is trying to make it "harder"  | |
| | jdjbuffalo
join:2004-01-17
Denver, CO
| I agree using a dual WAN router is the way to go if you want an easier solution than this guy jerry-rigged.
However, I have to disagree with your recommendation to use a Sonicwall product. From personal experience configuring several, I have to say they are a POS. | |
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fcisler
Premium
join:2004-06-14
Riverhead, NY
edit:
September 11th, @01:09PM
| Re: there is a much easier way to do this I'd really have to suggest you go see what pfSense is before calling it "jerry-rigged":
»www.pfsense.com/index.php?id=27
Check out some of the screenshots there | |
| | 
sporkme
drop the crantini and move it, sister
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-01
Budd Lake, NJ
| said by dcdeadbeat :
Why didn't you just use a SonicWall TZ190 router with built in WWAN and multiple WAN load-balancing.
You're missing the point. The SonicWall can't selectively send traffic out different interfaces like this guy requires. He wants traffic that requires low-latency and little bandwidth to go over the EDGE connection and bulk delay-insensitive traffic to go over the satellite. The SonicWall can't do this, nor can it be modified to do it. | |
| |
DaveDD
@krline.net | The Top Global MB6800 has a 1 x 4 switch built in. Their latest firmware support auto-failover between WAN and WWAN. An advanced version called the MB6800P can do load balance. | |
| 
TechieZero
Tools Are Using Me
Premium
join:2002-01-25
Wesley Chapel, FL | How much? | |
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hitman_001
Premium
join:2006-11-20
Laredo, TX
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·HughesNet Satellit..
| Re: How much? Welp the satellite runs 60+ a month depending on plan, not sure how much ATT charges but its probably in the ballpark of 59.99 to 79.99 a month. Your looking at ~120.00 plus a month to get a connection that "resembles" broadband, and still has the bandwidth caps and latency issues.
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Hn7000s Small Office plan/.74m dish & 1Watt Trans on Satmex 5 Signal: 86/Win XP Pro SP2/P4 3gig, 2Gigs Ram, Radeon X1300 500meg video | |
| | | Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA | Re: How much? Nah, AT&T data plan is +$30 to +$40 for unlimted. If he can convince them he has a smartphone, then it's only like $10 or $15. | |
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hitman_001
Premium
join:2006-11-20
Laredo, TX
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·HughesNet Satellit..
| Re: How much? The Data plan part was a guesstimation, I know sprint and verizon are around 59.99 and verizon just recently went to that pricing. Its been a few years since i've used cingular/Att for data.
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Hn7000s Small Office plan/.74m dish & 1Watt Trans on Satmex 5 Signal: 86/Win XP Pro SP2/P4 3gig, 2Gigs Ram, Radeon X1300 500meg video | |
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Jeepster93
Trail Ready
Premium
join:2000-10-20
Springfield, MO | 59.95 Unlimited | |
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STrRedWolf
join:2006-06-18
Severn, MD | Penguins? Sounds like he could of used a Linux distro for the router. | |
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sporkme
drop the crantini and move it, sister
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-01
Budd Lake, NJ
| Re: Penguins? said by STrRedWolf :Sounds like he could of used a Linux distro for the router. Why? Just so he could say "it runs Linux"?
This post brought to you by PFSense. | |
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jgkolt
Premium
join:2004-02-21
Lakewood, OH
clubs: | wow I will say this guy is truly resourceful. Now he needs to get evdo rev A and see how his speeds are. THis is assuming he gets coverage out there. | |
| |
hitman_001
Premium
join:2006-11-20
Laredo, TX
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·HughesNet Satellit..
| Re: wow in 90% of the cases if a person could get EVDO they wouldnt need the satellite. If you are a freak about download speeds, some areas are more congested on EVDO and offer less bandwidth. However if you live out in unserved areas.. your really not used to getting much of that to begin with. So having the two would be pointless, because you'd have your speed and your much lower latency all in one, and still cut your internet bill in half.
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Hn7000s Small Office plan/.74m dish & 1Watt Trans on Satmex 5 Signal: 86/Win XP Pro SP2/P4 3gig, 2Gigs Ram, Radeon X1300 500meg video | |
| tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Floral Park, NY
| cheap housing/land One reason for living in the boondocks is simple:
cheap land, housing and low taxes (ususally), but the "finer things in life" come at a distance premium such as cheap broadband and... Garbage collection, in many rural areas, you haul your own trash to the recycling center & dump.
Another downside.. is that your nearest fire dept, ambulance and hospital could be 45+minutes away, so if you have an extreme emergency, you may be SOL. | |
| | Nuts
join:2006-04-27
Forest, OH | Re: cheap housing/land Garbage, that's what the burn pile is for. | |
| | PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR
| said by tmc8080 :One reason for living in the boondocks is simple: cheap land, housing and low taxes (ususally), but the "finer things in life" come at a distance premium such as cheap broadband and... Garbage collection, in many rural areas, you haul your own trash to the recycling center & dump. Another downside.. is that your nearest fire dept, ambulance and hospital could be 45+minutes away, so if you have an extreme emergency, you may be SOL. LOL, I wish broadband penetration was as good as that for trash collection and emergency services. 
We have weekly trash pickup on our block, and the nearest fire station is just down the road. But Verizon's too busy deploying fiber to the most affluent communities in the county, and has stopped deploying DSL to anyone here. | |
| kwayzcat
join:2002-10-22
Chicago, IL
| PFSense is awesome PFSense is a FREE, full featured routing platform that runs on regular x86 hardware. It has the features of enterprise appliances that cost thousands of dollars. This is a very interesting implementation of dual-wan on PFsense.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PfSense | |
|
dcdeadbeat
@insidehighered.com
| sonicwall tz190 is still the way to go
I have used this product in dozens of clients. if they need more power and flexibility, then I take them up to Cisco grade equipment. I don't care what anyone says about software and a rigged together system. Hardware works 24/7. Software...well ...it works when it works. And when it doesn't...then you should have cracked open the wallet. He did say he was using it for work. So get your work to pay for it.
Lazy beats free any day of the week!!!!!! | |
| | cmaenginsb
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-19
Palmdale, CA
| Re: sonicwall tz190 is still the way to go Actually both the Sonicwall and Cisco's you mention are just modified versions of Linux software.
Sonicwall is a joke, used to recommend them to customers but after being screwed too many times it find it better to use something like PFSense. For l0sers like you who have to have Sonicwall, just modify the web interface so it looks like one and pocket the extra $400 or so it costs.
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CCNA, Comtrain Certified Tower Climber | |
| | | quantumvoice
join:2006-11-17
Ann Arbor, MI
| Re: sonicwall tz190 is still the way to go Actually, if he is referring to Cisco PIX, it is not "linux" based. You may be confused with Cisco's consumer/SOHO grade products from Linksys or it is a recent development.
However, the general point you were trying to make regarding PFSense is valid--both PIX and Sonicwall are software-based.
The functionality is derived from a general purpose CPU and not specialized hardware that provides application-specific functionality which is provided by an ASIC, DSP, etc.
However, even supposedly "hardware" solutions require robust firmware ("software") to exploit their potential. | |
| |
sporkme
drop the crantini and move it, sister
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-01
Budd Lake, NJ
| said by dcdeadbeat :
It features failover, spillover, and load-balancing. And it's very easy to use. That software you mention is just crapware. Go with a company like SonicWall, set it and forget it.
It takes a whole lotta stupid to be that mad at something that's free and offers more features.
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Dogma is the problem. | |
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dcdeadbeat
@insidehighered.com
| Re: sonicwall tz190 is still the way to go Quote: It takes a whole lotta stupid to be that mad at something that's free and offers more features.
Stupid, wait...let me check my bank account that stupidity has brought me....7 figures and growing....so I guess not recommending free crapware has made me very rich.
And don't think just because it is linux that it is stable or hack-proof.
And Cisco only uses linux on its VOIP and consumer products. IOS (found on its enterprise firewall and router products) is a hardened operating system and the backbone of the Internet core routers.
But then I am just a wealthy stupid, madman with 20+ years in networking...so I may not know what I am talking about.
For the rest of you out there, buy the SonicWall unless you have the money and expertise and then you should of course go with Cisco. You will be up and running in under 10 minutes. And if you have a problem, they have technical support.
Free products offer, oh wait..limited or no support.
And look at his mess of cables!! | |
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StickToTheFacts
@cox.net
| Re: sonicwall tz190 is still the way to go Stupid, wait...let me check my bank account that stupidity has brought me....7 figures and growing....so I guess not recommending free crapware has made me very rich. When speaking in terms of quality networking software, using the term "crapware" to describe Linux and packages like pfsense shows how ignorant you are... Properly configured and secured, I can make a Linux or BSD box do everything that you can do with a Cisco router and more.
And Cisco only uses linux on its VOIP and consumer products. IOS (found on its enterprise firewall and router products) is a hardened operating system and the backbone of the Internet core routers. Apparently you don't subscribe to the CERT lists because your statement about IOS being "hardened" is anything but true...
As for manufacturers using Linux... Several competing manufacturers are using OSS as their base router OS. For example, Juniper, which kicks Cisco's ass, is using FreeBSD as the OS on their routers. The CLI is just a userland that runs ON TOP of FreeBSD. | |
| | | | quantumvoice
join:2006-11-17
Ann Arbor, MI
edit:
September 12th, @05:53PM
| And Cisco only uses linux on its VOIP and consumer products. IOS (found on its enterprise firewall and router products) is a hardened operating system and the backbone of the Internet core routers.
Actually, Cisco PIX does not run "IOS". The IOS that runs on Cisco's "enterprise" class routing platforms is still using (unprotected) "shared" memory architecture and is constantly plagued by bugs. These bugs are often triggered by certain combinations of features and can turn an upgrade into a nightmarish game of Russian roulette.
However, IOS-XR eliminates the majority of these problems but is only available on a handful of high end carrier class routers (GSR, CRS-1, etc.). | |
| 
LordFlux
join:2005-04-20
Warner Robins, GA
·Cox HSI
·Alltel Axess
edit:
September 11th, @05:28PM
| I feel your pain... I've been on the Internet since '96 and have been using a 28.8k modem since then up until early this year when we got a Kyocera KPC650 and KR1 Router to use on the Alltel 1xRTT network. Why use a 28.8k instead of a 56k? Ask BellSouth/AT&T... they've been out to the house 4 or 5 times testing my line and they don't understand why my 56k modem won't connect.
Anyway, that's all behind me now... because the area is now EVDO Rev A and we're *flying* at a blazing 500-800kb/sec download rate and a 400ms ping time. Granted, my card is only Rev 0, but I just bought a KPC680 and it should be here next week... Rev A here I come! 1mbit?!?! 300ms ping time?! OMG! I wet myself!
Us rural users take what we can get... which is why I went ahead and had Cox installed in my new house. Moving out of my parents house when I get married in 59 days. | |
|
dcdeadbeat
@insidehighered.com
|  you are all missing the point here--this is not new news
This guy should not be given any coverage. Now if he had found a way to combine multiple EDGE connections(while only being charged for one) thereby giving him something closer to broadband, then he should receive coverage.
In other words what I am talking about is using the mesh of cell-phone towers in a given area and creating connections with all of them to form one massive pipe.
Now that would be news worthy. Not some rual user using a router and two internet connections. Been done over and over before. Let's get something new going here.
And for those that called me ignorant: I use Redhat Linux on a daily basis on hundreds of severs. But guess what servers always get hacked....the Linux boxes running freeware. Why because it is free, hackers have access to it. Make it expensive and the hackers can't afford access to it and therefore expensive, proprietary stuff stays hack-free more often. | |
| | kwayzcat
join:2002-10-22
Chicago, IL
| Re: you are all missing the point here--this is not new news You are a lousy administrator if your Redhat servers are always getting hacked.
If your last argument is true then why is Windows the most exploited OS on the planet?
The fact is that PFSense does what your precious Sonicwall device does and MORE. I've read the reviews on the TZ190. 20 megabits throughput? Real powerful device you got there. Oh it costs over $500 with a required annual support contract of hundreds of dollars? Geez I'm SHOCKED more people aren't buying this device for their home use! They are clearly morons for not doing so! | |
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dcdeadbeat
@insidehighered.com
| Re: you are all missing the point here--this is not new news You have no idea what you are talking about. The TZ190 does not have any required annual contracts.
And it was not Redhat that got hacked but the crappy free open-source software that got hacked. And yes eventually they get around to patching the holes. But guess what...its free so there is no motivation. There is no motivation to path or support products that don't generate income. So free program can leave you with lousy support and headaches. Just crack open the wallet and pay for quality.
But then again you are missing my point and I doubt you are actually a networking professional because if you were, you would know that $500 is a bargain for a product that works with very little config on your part.
My Windows 2003 servers have never been hacked. Why because I don't run any open-source or freeware/crapware on them.
Just for giggles, I tried your crappy PFSense. Crap, crap, crap. I won't be recommending it any of the 2,000+ clients that pay me $600/hour for consulting.
I don't work for SonicWall, nor do I think that they are the end all be all of networking devices. I use Cisco for my home networking equipment. But then not everyone wants to pay for Cisco quality. So I think other HARDWARE products like the SonicWall are good choices for people.
And again...this is not news.
Notice that you didn't even comment on my idea to bond multiple EDGE channels. Why because you are obsessed with your crappy PFSense software.
I win (as always). You loose. | |
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whocares
@kabelvision.com
| Re: you are all missing the point here--this is not new news If I can afford a decent firewall, I will choose SecureComputing's Sidewinder or Cyberguard.
But if I didn't have $500 and I need a firewall with Multiple-WAN, failover and load-balancing features, so I will choose PFSense.
In this case, I still win and you are loose. :P | |
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NoEDGEforSonicW
@krline.net
| Make sure it works before you recommend it Before you recommend a product, make sure it works with the Option GT Max 7.2 ! Otherwise, you are making a lot of people against the WALL with a useless box.
The MB6800 has the widest datacard support. I have tested several of similar products. Top Global is the only product works with my datacard in Korea. | |
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