  pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD |  Different Angle
The more militarized the local police become, the more abuse that will happen, period.
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Romney 2012 - Put an adult in charge. | |
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 | | | Re: Different Angle I agree, I wonder if this was a "no knock" warrant and they just kicked her door in. Innocent people get killed because of this stupid crap. | |
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| | pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Re: Different Angle said by supernac:I agree, I wonder if this was a "no knock" warrant and they just kicked her door in. Innocent people get killed because of this stupid crap. I think civil suits against police agencies for such blatant abuses of power are not enough. Local governments have a literally unlimited pool of money from which they can pay out claims (they can simply raise taxes) so there is no incentive against engaging in bad behavior.
Everyone involved in this, from the person who gave the order, to the people carrying it out, should have to bear some kind of personal cost to this, ranging from losing their jobs to being criminally prosecuted (I'd say the latter punishment should be reserved for those who gave the orders to do this). Enough is enough!
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Romney 2012 - Put an adult in charge. | |
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| | | zolcos
join:2010-05-19
Houghton, MI | Re: Different Angle The money for overfunded police forces doesn't come from tax increases -- it comes from abuse of civil asset forfeiture | |
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| | | | pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | said by zolcos:The money for overfunded police forces doesn't come from tax increases -- it comes from abuse of civil asset forfeiture Yup... the War on Drugs is a profitable venture indeed.
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Romney 2012 - Put an adult in charge. | |
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| | | | | Unlimited funds? Cmon dude that's crazy talk. Many towns, counties, and cities are filing for bankruptcy protection or on the verge. Just raising taxes isnt possible just because. Yes I realize taxes have been raised to levels which may or may not match people expectations but there are limits. | |
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| | | | pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Re: Different Angle said by FLATLINE:Unlimited funds? Cmon dude that's crazy talk. Many towns, counties, and cities are filing for bankruptcy protection or on the verge. Just raising taxes isnt possible just because. Yes I realize taxes have been raised to levels which may or may not match people expectations but there are limits. There are limits, but the bar is much higher than for a private entity. But compounding this, there is a clear lack of accountability for the people engaging in abuse of power. Put more simply, if a private citizen did the same thing, he'd have been arrested for breaking and entering, assault with a deadly weapon, and whole laundry list of other charges.
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Romney 2012 - Put an adult in charge. | |
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| | | | |  marigoldsGainfully employed, finallyPremium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:2 | Re: Different Angle said by pnh102:said by FLATLINE:Unlimited funds? Cmon dude that's crazy talk. Many towns, counties, and cities are filing for bankruptcy protection or on the verge. Just raising taxes isnt possible just because. Yes I realize taxes have been raised to levels which may or may not match people expectations but there are limits. There are limits, but the bar is much higher than for a private entity. But compounding this, there is a clear lack of accountability for the people engaging in abuse of power. Put more simply, if a private citizen did the same thing, he'd have been arrested for breaking and entering, assault with a deadly weapon, and whole laundry list of other charges. Not if they had a warrant, which of course they cannot have.
The real problem here lies with the judges who issue politically motivated warrants like these to keep getting elected.
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Geographic Information Science researcher | |
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| | Reviews:
 ·Verizon FiOS
| said by supernac:.... Innocent people get killed because of this stupid crap.
story in the news today about some policeman shooting his own son because he thought he was an intruder....shoot first, figure it out later is apparently the motto for out boys in blue. | |
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| |  EVV
@insightbb.com | Flash device was thrown through window, shocking grandma and granddaughter. Door was busted in. T.V. crew present for the whole thing, as set up ahead of time.
This incident was quite unprofessional and embarassing to educated citizens who live in this area. The local police force did a poor job of investigation (open Wi-Fi determnation) prior to SWAT approach on ISP provided modem IP address/listed residence.
Lucky that the residents didn't resist unlawful entry with guns. The Indiana legislature passed a law allowing one to resist illegal police entry, although courts have not yet tested this.
New flash, there is no law against the use of unsecured Wi-Fi. Blaming innocent victims under this scenario is wrong and ignorant.
10%-20% of the population will probably always have unsecured Wi-FI for whatever reason. The police state needs to respect citizens' rights and use proper investigation techniques. | |
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| | | | | Re: Different Angle While there is no excuse for the police to raid this home there is also no excuse for running an unsecured WiFi router. This isn't 1999 for godsakes. We are all aware of this kind of thing happening. | |
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| | | | | | Re: Different Angle LOL, nice, blaming the family who owned the router instead of the police force for not doing their job before raiding a home. | |
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| | | |  bear73Metnav... Fly The Unfriendly SkiesPremium
join:2001-06-09
Grand Forks Afb, ND | sorry, but your average user has become less technically savvy as broadband becomes as common as a phone line. Average users are unaware that the wireless box that they rent/buy from the broadband company comes default wide open. combine with that self-install kits and crazy-high tech installs and the average user gets the kit and just plugs it in.
All of this is NO EXCUSE for the local PD to make a wild assumption that this house was the offender and use a military breach to enter a home that was exhibiting NO clear illegal activity. There was no investigation done, no fact checking. Something as simple as bringing a laptop and TURNING IT ON to search for open connections would have shown more investigation was needed. | |
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| | | | | | | Re: Different Angle said by bear73:your average user has become less technically savvy as broadband becomes as common as a phone line. Precisely.
My wife views a computer as being an appliance like a toaster or a light bulb. She expects it to turn on and work instantly. She does not understand how it works, nor is she interested in learning, just as she is not interested in learning how the engine or transmission in her car work. She just wants to drive the car and she wants to be able to access the internet conveniently. She expects to be able to watch Netflix without being a networking guru or expert in the way that the TV works.
I believe that she is the norm, not the exception. Those of us who are technology enthusiasts might be interested in knowing that stuff in depth, but not everyone else is. | |
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| | | IMO:
Militaristic police forces do not earn respect and only reinforce negative stereotypes for all police officers.
SWAT team are a necessary evil I will grant that but...
If all you have is a hammer everything looks to get nailed.
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| | | said by pnh102:Ever wonder why there are so many SWAT teams? Why are so many needed? Why aren't they being used against violent criminals?
The more militarized the local police become, the more abuse that will happen, period.
Seems like they are not here to help us but to enforce anything on us. I find this para-militarization of police force concerning myself.
I guess surveillance is not part of police work anymore? Why observe when we can ram/kick down doors, throw flash-bangs and shoot people and then find out if they are involved? Makes total sense! NOT
This also shows how dumb the judge was to approve this with hardly any evidence.
Imagine if someone was cleaning their gun(s) or something when they busted through... would have shot them just because they had a "weapon". | |
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| | bear73Metnav... Fly The Unfriendly SkiesPremium
join:2001-06-09
Grand Forks Afb, ND | Re: Different Angle I completely agree with you. And this is a perfect argument why unnecessary force/search-seizure should have more significant penalties for everyone from the Mayor to the Judge to the DA to the Police. I'm sure that the judge signed it at least in part because it would be cheaper to shoot first than to investigate first. | |
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bgraham
join:2001-03-15
Smithtown, NY Reviews:
 ·VOIPo
·Verizon VoiceWing
| Get with the Modern Age I am sure back in the day, after the invention of cars, the first car thefts occurred. Manufacturers then began to put locks on cars and people used them. Now everyone locks their car.
Well, here we are 100 years later and anyone who has an open WiFi is as dumb as someone who leaves their keys in the ignition. | |
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| | | Re: Get with the Modern Age You can't say that. Most people probably don't know that WEP and WPS are hackable. That and despite the fact that they are hackable, manufacturers of the routers still put them on the firmware as security to be used.
And your car analogy is flawed. Even with locks are cars, people can still break into them, i.e. Slimjim. So even if you had good intentions of locking your car, thieves could still get in your car. Does it make it your fault? No. | |
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| | | | Re: Get with the Modern Age said by sandman_1:You can't say that. Most people probably don't know that WEP and WPS are hackable...
And your car analogy is flawed. Even with locks are cars, people can still break into them, i.e. Slimjim. So even if you had good intentions of locking your car, thieves could still get in your car.
doesn't that make his car analogy more accurate?
basic wifi security is easily hackable in about a minute.
standard car locks can famously be opened in less than 60 seconds. | |
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| | bear73Metnav... Fly The Unfriendly SkiesPremium
join:2001-06-09
Grand Forks Afb, ND | bgraham actually made a perfect analogy. now lets take it a step further. car locks, even the best ones are easily circumvented. If a criminal steals your car and commits a crime, you the owner are not held responsible for those damages/crimes EVEN if you don't lock your car. | |
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| | | marigoldsGainfully employed, finallyPremium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:2 | Re: Get with the Modern Age said by bear73:bgraham actually made a perfect analogy. now lets take it a step further. car locks, even the best ones are easily circumvented. If a criminal steals your car and commits a crime, you the owner are not held responsible for those damages/crimes EVEN if you don't lock your car.
In most states, if you leave the keys in the car you are liable for damages caused to others by the thief with your car under the state's negligence laws.
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| | | |  Camelot OnePremium,MVM
join:2001-11-21
Greenwood, IN
kudos:1 | Re: Get with the Modern Age Texas takes it a step further, it is a crime to leave your keys in the car. | |
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|  Simba7I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT | said by bgraham:Well, here we are 100 years later and anyone who has an open WiFi is as dumb as someone who leaves their keys in the ignition. Not really. I leave an open AP for my local community (throttled 1mbps U/D). No issues so far and it's been running for over a year.
I do have a small sticker on my door so, if there are issues, they can call my cell phone. | |
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|  cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7 | said by bgraham:I am sure back in the day, after the invention of cars, the first car thefts occurred. Manufacturers then began to put locks on cars and people used them. Now everyone locks their car. And yet locked cars still are broken into on a daily basis... | |
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|  GbcueP.E.Premium
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA
kudos:8 | Why are locks even needed? Even if a car is left unlocked, it is still burglary. If it isn't yours, don't touch it. | |
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| | Camelot OnePremium,MVM
join:2001-11-21
Greenwood, IN
kudos:1 | Re: Get with the Modern Age said by Gbcue:Why are locks even needed? Even if a car is left unlocked, it is still burglary. If it isn't yours, don't touch it.
But that is a big difference at the moment. It is not illegal to have an unsecured wireless network, and it is also not illegal to use an unsecured wireless network. So the car analogy really doesn't apply.
But if I remember correctly, there was a follow up article on this story that said they were running WEP, and that a neighbor had hacked it. | |
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| | | Simba7I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT | Re: Get with the Modern Age said by Camelot One:But if I remember correctly, there was a follow up article on this story that said they were running WEP, and that a neighbor had hacked it. If that's true, that changes the entire story. The guy, knowingly, hacked into a neighbors router and ignored the owners warning to stay out. | |
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| | |  bbeesleyVIP
join:2003-08-07
Richardson, TX
kudos:5 | said by Camelot One:and it is also not illegal to use an unsecured wireless network.
you might want to talk to your lawyer about that. The statute says "unauthorized access" is the test
If you use an AP that you are not authorized to use, open or not, you are potentially in violation of the statue...just as you would be potentially charged with breaking and entering if you walked into someone's open and unlocked door. | |
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| | | | Camelot OnePremium,MVM
join:2001-11-21
Greenwood, IN
kudos:1 | Re: Get with the Modern Age If you are referring to the Texas law, Austin had a case that tested it not long ago, and the final word was that it had to be knowingly un-authorized use. Meaning lack of approval isn't enough.
But as far as I know, Indiana has no such law. Hacking an encrypted network will get you in trouble, but open networks are fair game. | |
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DEMiles
join:2009-12-29
Broomfield, CO | WPA2 not crackable I think you've confused WPA2 with WPS. WPS can be cracked and when cracked it will hand over the key used by WPA[2]. Routers that do not have WPS, or have it disabled are not vulnerable to any known form of WPA cracking. | |
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| Simba7I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT | Re: WPA2 not crackable ..except most aren't aware that the WPS pin can be hacked.
I have the push button authentication active, but the pin disabled. | |
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|  rchandraStargate Universe fanPremium
join:2000-11-09
14225-2105 | I agree. Plus one must be careful; certain brands of routers (I'm looking at you, Linksys/Cisco!) with some firmware versions provide a toggle for WPS which is ineffective (WPS is still vulnerable (active?) where the Web GUI says it's off).
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English is a difficult enough language to interpret correctly when its rules are followed, let alone when a writer chooses not to follow those rules.
Jeopardy! replies and randomcaps REALLY suck! | |
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| | | said by DEMiles:I think you've confused WPA2 with WPS. WPS can be cracked and when cracked it will hand over the key used by WPA[2]. Routers that do not have WPS, or have it disabled are not vulnerable to any known form of WPA cracking.
I was looking at that thinking, "Hmm, when did that happen." Almost makes me think they did as much "investigating" this story, as those stupid cops/SWAT team investigating who's door to knock on!! 
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WHT
join:2010-03-26
Rosston, TX
kudos:5 | Old news? That was over a month ago. | |
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 DaarkenRara AvisesPremium
join:2005-01-12
Southwest LA
kudos:3 | Wrong House, Right Call With the threats of impeding harm to police officers and their family, and proclaiming having explosives, going in full steam with the swat team, is going to be the only resort the police take.
Situations like this require immediate response. Taking the time to determine if the residence has an open router will never be taken into account before they do a raid.
The police will apologize and pay for any damages, but the call is still the right one to make.
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Getting it Done. | |
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See 22 replies to this post |
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| | IP!=person People hack into wifi whether secured or unsecured for various reasons usually for illegal intent. Ever hear of War Driving? | |
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See 9 replies to this post |
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| | | Re: This situation far worse, police killed innocent man. Cops shoot unarmed people all the time. Which makes the Zimmerman case laughable: public "servants" who "sacrifice" themselves for "duty" and are always numerically superior and better equipped to any threat are allowed to have a hair-trigger when it comes to their own safety, but a normal personal is held to a higher standard? | |
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| | Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
kudos:1 Reviews:
 ·CenturyLink
 ·Comcast
·Embarq Now Centu..
| Re: This situation far worse, police killed innocent man. Cops got the wrong address because of negligence, whether an Ip address or physical police need to check thoroughly but are to indifferent because they have immunity form being punished for their mistakes. If they had checked the address on the motorcycle registration they would realized that apartment 114 was not the correct address. They were probably to busy eating doughnuts to bother checking the address. | |
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| | | | | Re: This situation far worse, police killed innocent man. You are aware that people can go other places then just there own homes correct? You are also aware that people can move without changing the address on their license or license plates?
Probably not because you were to busy living in la la land instead of using common sense. | |
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| | Are We Ready for the Future? Are We Ready for the Future?
I realize the issue was pressing, but you would have though they would take a min to find out who lived there? I mean after all it was a message, not a hold up in progress. Im all one for stopping things like this, but the guy/girl who did this is probable laughing there head off and planning something else.
Internet technology has grown, and we may not be ready for it. | |
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See 6 replies to this post |
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Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS
| excuses 9/11 changed everything... and the policing powers of government go unchecked. however, they should be held accountable for sloppy police work.. this error should go on their permanent record and after a time (continued errors, complaints, lawsuits), result in being FIRED! however, the 3000+ lives are being used as sacred corruption rights to trample upon the rights of citizens in a new world order.. welcome to the post 9/11/2001 world. | |
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 camaro92Question everythingPremium
join:2008-04-05
Westfield, MA
·Comcast
| Now people are starting to take notice This has been going on a long time a really long time. There is no such thing as a regular warrant (I know there is but for sake of the argument). What scares me is more judges issue these out like nothing and police always get the benefit of the doubt and here we are. Half ass police work but we would get fired for work like that while police just get "administrative leave" aka lay low till we get this swept under the carpet and still getting payed along with there pension.
But wait there is more, to quote a famous line "where does he get those wonderful toys"?. Well here you go.
»www.lawenforcementequipmentprogram.org/
»www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/06···ear/all/ | |
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| | | Re: WPA2 has been hacked? said by b10010011:I missed that news. 
Is a combination WPA2 and MAC access lists still somewhat safe?
WPA2 can be hacked via WPS | |
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| | b10010011Whats a Posting tag?
join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA | Re: WPA2 has been hacked? Oh, yeah I guess I have read that. My router runs DD-WRT and predates WPS.
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| | camaro92Question everythingPremium
join:2008-04-05
Westfield, MA | You can crack wpa2 encryption its just a matter of a little social engineering and luck. The majority of non tech people probably use the minimum required, so if you really wanted to it's possible, no security is 100%. | |
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| | | All someone needs is a good wifi card, reaver, router with WPS enabled, and a little patience | |
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SukunaiPremium
join:2008-05-07
kudos:1 Reviews:
·ELECTRONICBOX
·TekSavvy DSL
| Another strike against being blamed Looks like a fine example of being able to say 'No your honour those downloads were not done by me, and I wish you god speed in finding the real offender'.
If it is so ordinary to have our wifi hacked, then I consider a lot of the hysteria of downloading to be more or less doomed in the courtroom.
After all, if the police can't even discern the wrong target, then I think that dooms the chances of being blamed for a lot of IP identifying schemes. | |
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| | RE 1 person will always ruin a good thing for everyone.
If it wasn't for horrible people that do illegal things on free wifi, I would be whoring out my internet to the whole neighborhood xD | |
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Lake County Sheriff Deputies shot and killed a man after they knocked on the wrong door because a wanted man parked his motorcycle in front of it. See the article below:
