Satellite's Famine is Cable's FeastAfter years of competition, the tables turn ( old news - 11:01AM Tuesday Aug 22 2006) tags: satellite · Video · competition · cableIP Democracy points out that things aren't going well for the nation's satellite providers. Both DirecTV and Dish failed to grab any decent spectrum at last week's FCC auction, and Echostar lost their patent fight with Tivo. DirecTV has also been slow to get their non-Tivo MPEG-4 HD-DVR to market, the quality of which will have a lot to say about DirecTV's future competitiveness in the HD-space. The report notes that on top of these issues, both companies are showing slowed growth, adding the lowest number of net new customers since at least the first quarter of 1999. One possible solution is a merger between the two companies, if regulators allow it this time (Murdoch doesn't seem to think it's a problem). Meanwhile, the website notes that things are looking up for cable providers, who, after years of losing subs to satellite providers, are slowly seeing growth in traditional video subs. Cable's next great challenge, though still on the horizon, is obviously TelcoTV.
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 gburrell
join:2005-02-10
Wyckoff, NJ
| Former Dish subscriber Well I have had both DirectTv and Dish and now am on cable due to satellites extra cost for equipment and HDTV. If satellite insists on penalizing existing subscribers with high cost to get new equipment and higher fees to get HDTV, people are going to switch back to cable. It used to be satellite was a lower cost option with more channels and choices, but now cable has turned that around. (At least in my area). Looking forward to Fios driving even more competition. | |
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Neyland
join:2003-02-04
USA | Re: Former Dish subscriber I agree!
The cost of the equipment must be factored into the cost of the service.
Also, the amount of compression on the sat services reached the disgusting stage for me. | |
| | nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD | ditto.
they lost me because of the $300 "upgrade" fee for the HD DVR.
I might be a FIOS customer someday, when the county I live in and verizon get done suing. | |
| | | wizzle
Premium
join:2004-06-15
Durham, NC
| Re: Former Dish subscriber Agreed.
$100+ is just too much to ask. I'd say in my area that cable services are generally $10/month more expensive. So a $300 equipment purchase would take over 2 years to pay for itself.
Too much changes in 3 years time to commit to such a purchase. | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| said by nasadude  :ditto. they lost me because of the $300 "upgrade" fee for the HD DVR. I might be a FIOS customer someday, when the county I live in and verizon get done suing. And the kicker is you STILL have the lease fees on it so you really dont own the box.
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You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
| So what's the difference between paying a 1 time $200 (current upgrade price) with a monthly $5 DVR fee, and paying $20/month for a multi-room DVR? At the end of a year, you will have spent $260 for Dish and $240 for Verizon's. Almost equal. But at the end of 2 years, Dish is at $320 and Verizon is at $480. Even with just the standard DVR ($13/month), it's almost equal after 2 years.
Now this doesn't take into account programming fees, but they vary greatly from provider to provider so a direct apples to apples comparison can't be drawn.
My point is that, if looked at over a not-so-long term view, their isn't a lot of difference in price. One just has higher upfront costs but lower reoccuring fees, while the other has nothing upfront, but constant fees that can add up in the long term.
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Quis custodiet custodes ipsos? | |
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Geminimind
Premium
join:2003-12-20
Sacramento, CA
 ·AT&T Yahoo
| If you notice satellite companies are giving you free installation deals if you extend your contract,will move your dish service for free if you commit to one more year of service. Contracts to keep their customers longer or charge them a breach of contract fee. Both D and E* suck. TV is expensive no matter who you go with. Why not go with the one who has no contract. | |
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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
| Re: Former Dish subscriber I don't know about DirecTV, but Dish has no contract options available. Yeah you have to pay a $50 installation fee. But many cable companies also charge similar. If you know someone who already has Dish, you can get a Club Dish referral to save $50 (aka "free activation"). If you don't like it, just call, cancel, and ship the receivers back at any time.
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Quis custodiet custodes ipsos? | |
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Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
·Qwest.net
| Oh please The reason why Cable is getting more customers is not because cable has better programing, for the most part it is the same. The reason is the bundled VoIP telephone service, and high speed internet.
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The older I get the more I prefer the company of my dogs over that of man kind. | |
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GOLFnSUN
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·Comcast
| Re: Oh please said by Transmaster :The reason why Cable is getting more customers is not because cable has better programing, for the most part it is the same. The reason is the bundled VoIP telephone service, and high speed internet. I think the bundled deals cable has been rolling out, especially the pkg of digital TV and broadband access with discounts for up to a year is hurting the satellite providers the most. I don't think the VOIP thrown in to the deals is making a big difference yet.
Another thing hurting DTV is their high pressure sales tactics. My 80 yr old parents were considering switching from Comcast to DTV(they don't use the internet), but DTV refused to send out a brochure with their choices. They kept trying to force a decision over the phone. Sales tactics like that will hurt them.
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Join Red Room Forum
BLOG tkjunkmail.blogspot.com
My Web Page | |
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vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA
| Re: Oh please said by GOLFnSUN :Another thing hurting DTV is their high pressure sales tactics. My 80 yr old parents were considering switching from Comcast to DTV(they don't use the internet), but DTV refused to send out a brochure with their choices. They kept trying to force a decision over the phone. Sales tactics like that will hurt them. Good call, TKJ! A friend of mine had a similar experience - he placed an order for DirectTV, and when the guy came to install it he had him signed up for a more expensive package. My friend sent the installer home and canceled his order. | |
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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
| said by GOLFnSUN :The reason why Cable is getting more customers is not because cable has better programing, for the most part it is the same. The reason is the bundled VoIP telephone service, and high speed internet. Comcast has been running the triple play specials in my area. The 3 services for $99. I thought about it, but then I looked into the details.
Here's what I have now:
Dish AT60+Locals+dual tuner/dual output DVR ($41)
ViaTalk Unlimited (8.25/month [$99/year deal])
Verizon FiOS 15/2 ($40)
Total monthly bill 89.25
Comcast's deal is $99 for the 3. However, in order to compare fruit as closely as possible, I have to add on the additional fees:
$10 upgrade to 16mbit service from 6mbits
$3 to lease a modem
$6.95 additional outlet fee for 2nd TV
$9.95 for DVR
Total monthly cost: 128.90. After my first year, my monthly price goes up another $50 to the regular price.
Now to Comcast's credit, they do provide more channels and VoD as compared to what I subscribe to with Dish, but for the $40 price difference, I could easily subscribe to more. Plus I get the advantage of having a DVR for 2 TVs while the 2nd TV with Comcast is just a regular receiver.
So for me, $40 isn't worth the lost of functionality on the 2nd TV while only gaining combined billing.
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Quis custodiet custodes ipsos? | |
| | rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO
·Charter Pipeline
| Totally agree. I much preferred satellite. I've had both Dish and DirecTV. Dish was OK but I didn't like their equipment. DirecTV was better because of superior equipment and more equipment options.
The reason I'm back with cable is bundling. As a very satisfied Vonage user, if I could get unbundled DSL (I do not want POTS voice) or some kind of quality, high speed, low latency wireless connection that supports VOIP, I would consider returning to satellite. However, they would have to offer an attractive price on a DVR/tuner combo and I'd have to give up cable's VOD which is a very nice perk on premium services and somewhat eliminates renting movies from video stores. (I just wish titles were available on VOD when they are available to rent -- plus you can record VOD...)
Bottom line, satellite needs a competitive HSI option so they can provide the bundle. Without it, cable wins and satellite fades back into rural areas from whence it came.
This would be a shame because satellite made cable what it is today. Without it, I even question where the telcos would be. | |
| dmh748
join:2002-03-07
Boston, MA | IPTV, not TelcoTV With Covad, Earthlink could be a major force in IPTV.
The technology is being rolled out now. The question is whether Earthlink will grab this opportunity or whether they have their hands full with the cellphone distraction. | |
| 
Pisgah Rider
join:2004-04-08
Inman, SC | Easy Fix LOWER YOUR PRICES
Satellite was a good deal early on, but now it's about the same as cable in my area.Yes i know the picture can be better but theres still the weather issue so give me a reason to go dish.PRICE | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Satellite Ads Misleading I've always hated the fact that satellite companies compare the price of their cheapest service to the price of the most expensive cable service. I remember the last time I priced satellite service... once i added all the channels I actually wanted to see the price was no better than cable!
Equipment costs are also a pain. I see no reason why satellite providers don't just rent out boxes the same way cable companies do.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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beetoo
@qwest.net
| DTV The service seems to be degrading. I ordered Directv on Aug 14, it was supposed to be installed on Saturday, but, the installer "Accidently" closed the mdu box, and locked it, how convenient, he was a jackass and said, he had no time to wait for us to go get the key.
So, it was rescheduled for yesterday. The installer came, but the pussy refused to install because there were clouds over head. And, GOD forbid a water drop lands on him...EEK...
Anyways, I think that with cable, people dont have these installation issues, as the installers are usually not sub contractors.
And, it definately is the bundled packages, and no credit checks, and no contracts with cable, well, unless you get an uber special. | |
| | rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO
·Charter Pipeline
| Re: DTV The last time I had a cable install the guy was not a direct employee of the cable company. He even told me what he got paid and the fact that he got to charge a separate fee if he had to hook up his electronic signal device and measure my signal (so of course he measured my signal!)
I'm not saying this is bad or good just that I question if employment status has a bearing on quality install. I'm sure there are great subs, rotten subs, great employees and rotten employees -- just like any business.
However, I must say that based on your information you did not have a good installer. | |
| JSRoman
Premium
join:2005-03-10
Callahan, FL
| Nothing new here. Basically what you are seeing is the ability of cable network to offer more services. I have Directv and I'm very happy with service and money I pay for it but I know that they only service I will get from DTV is video. Internet via satellite really isn't an affordable option. Since most cable services are now offering video,internet and phone it makes sense that they are gaining more subs and more subs are sticking to their services. A large portion of those gains can be directly linked to 3 service bundles currently being offered.
Comcast's 'triple play' wins fans on Wall St.
»www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/busi···2346.htm
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A shotgun blast to the head will clear that right up. | |
| | Slacker44
join:2001-05-10
Gilbert, AZ
| Re: Nothing new here. Dish has no competition right now for HDTV with 24 channels. Cable has a while for 3.0 to hit and may ease their HD content pains but I'm not sure. I still have cable with Cox and I love the service. I just want more HD channels like FoodTV and ESPN2. The price is exactly the same for Cox, DirecTV and Dish for the content I want but Dish has more HD channels than anyone else. My problem is that I have 2 HD DVR's with Cox. Having a 2 year old my need to pause TV is invaluable. I have no desire to drop $400 on 2 HD DVR's from Dish or $600+ for DirecTV new MPEG4 DVR's. Bah. | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| Re: Nothing new here. said by Slacker44 :Dish has no competition right now for HDTV with 24 channels. Cable has a while for 3.0 to hit and may ease their HD content pains but I'm not sure. yeah but how many of those channels are PPV and other worthless channels that nobody watches. I wish ALL the premium channels were all in HD, not just one HBO, one Showtime and one starz [on cox btw]
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You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
| | | | Slacker44
join:2001-05-10
Gilbert, AZ
| Re: Nothing new here. Animania HD
Family Room HD
GamePlay HD
Discovery HD Theater
Equator HD
National Geographic Channel HD
DISH Network PPV in HD
Film Fest HD
Food Network HD
HDNet Movies
Kung Fu HD
Monsters HD
World Cinema HD
HDNews
Rave HD
ESPN HD
ESPN2 HD
NFL Network HD
Rush HD
WorldSport HD
Gallery HD
HDNet
HGTV HD
TNT HD
Treasure HD
Ultra HD
Universal HD | |
| 
58483323
Gurt me
join:2003-06-23
Normal, IL | ON DEMAND! Comcast's ON DEMAND service is a real winner! I'm sure it retains customers. And their HD-DVR is very afforable. Only $10 a month for the HD DVR box, DVR service, and HD service.  | |
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andunn
join:2001-09-06
Linn Creek, MO
·RoadRunner Cable
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: ON DEMAND! All I can say is the picture quality of Charter cable (especially the lower channels) is horrible in my area. This is why we don't subscribe to cable. Plus, the fact that my wife has enjoyed her Directivo for the past 1 1/2 years and Charter doesn't offer any type of DVR product in our area yet.We will be with Directv for awhile until Charter gets their act together. | |
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MadMANN
Premium
join:2005-08-19
·Comcast
| Re: ON DEMAND! said by andunn :All I can say is the picture quality of Charter cable (especially the lower channels) is horrible in my area. This is why we don't subscribe to cable. Plus, the fact that my wife has enjoyed her Directivo for the past 1 1/2 years and Charter doesn't offer any type of DVR product in our area yet.We will be with Directv for awhile until Charter gets their act together. Unfortunately for you, your Directivo won't be around for much longer. | |
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old_dawg
"I Know Noting..."
join:2001-09-22
Westminster, MD
| Re: ON DEMAND! said by MadMANN :said by andunn :All I can say is the picture quality of Charter cable (especially the lower channels) is horrible in my area. This is why we don't subscribe to cable. Plus, the fact that my wife has enjoyed her Directivo for the past 1 1/2 years and Charter doesn't offer any type of DVR product in our area yet.We will be with Directv for awhile until Charter gets their act together. Unfortunately for you, your Directivo won't be around for much longer. Care to define "much longer"?. It's my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong, that D*TV will stay committed to D*Tivo users till 2010?.
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"Our network engineers are aware of the problem..." | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| said by 58483323 :Comcast's ON DEMAND service is a real winner! I'm sure it retains customers. And their HD-DVR is very afforable. Only $10 a month for the HD DVR box, DVR service, and HD service. There surely is a gateway fee in there somewhere.
is that $10 for the box PLUS another $10 for the DVR portion plus DVR fee to make it work.
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You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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58483323
Gurt me
join:2003-06-23
Normal, IL | Re: ON DEMAND! No, just a flat $10 for it all. | |
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losethecustomer
@verizon.net
| How to LOSE a 10 year subscriber! Not INNOVATE, raise prices, give customers hassles about upgrading access cards, not offer good deals on equipment/loyalty bonuses, expand channels into higher priced tiers... the list can go on... but if you haven't gotten my point by now, you are too dense to get through to..
Satllite's biggest partners: telcos
are about to stab them in the back by slowly taking their customers too, as iptv and fttp begins to become available to more and more satelltie tv subscribers.
How to cure those blues? give existing customers with 2 or more years of service (or sign a contract for 2 years) free HD-satelite reciver/dvrs for upto 4 settops. Otherwise, expect customer hemorraging..
Only benefit: you can take your receiver with you in multiple locations.. close that loophole, and say goodbye to the last tangible benefit of satellite tv, unless they are your ONLY alternative (still in 2006!) | |
| robjulo
join:2004-08-22
Louisville, KY | It Depends on the Provider Some cable providers are still well behind satellite in terms or pricing and programming. Cable in my area is almost $35 a month more expensive and offers much less programming, much less HD and a shoddy DVR. | |
| wizzle
Premium
join:2004-06-15
Durham, NC
| Bottom Line... Cities have cable companies. Rural areas are not as likely to have the option. Population is much more concentrated in the cities and each homeowner has much less land to work with.
So If you're like me and have a .2-acre piece of land w/ tall shade trees in the exact location of the satellites in the sky...you have to choice but to go cable. Wait, the choice would be to cut down the trees. Wait, there's another tree behind it that is on the neighbor's property. A nightmare.
So basic cable is actually cheaper ($17/month) than any satellite package and is filling the void until the voip-equivalent breakthrough occurs in the world of TV. Having a Netflix membership helps fill the void as well.
It's the whole wired vs wireless problem that we see across the board. That coax cable running into my house is much more reliable than the sight from a dish to a satellite in the sky. Those darn pterodactyls fly over my house and interrupt my tv shows! | |
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richardpor
Fur it up
join:2003-04-19
Portland, OR
| Cable will wins in my book. 1. I live in an apartment facing the wrong direction and I cannot mount a satellite dish.
2. Cable offers more services through a single cable such as Internet and VOD. The best thing satellite companies can do is lame DSL deals with the telecoms. | |
| | valuepac0
join:2001-05-30
Santa Monica, CA
| Re: Cable will wins in my book. Directv and dish offers HD-lite, if Directv or dish would offer full bandwidth 1920x1080I @ 19.4 mbps or for ESPN and ABC 1280x720p @ 15.5 Mbps then I would switch.With cable allowing full bandwidth HD, VOD, and $13 a month HD dvr rental there no reason to switch to any dish provider.. The only advantage Dish has is a few more HD channels | |
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malvado6
I pee on Bushes.
join:2003-09-13
00001
| Re: Cable will wins in my book. As a former cable employee (and enjoying many years of all but free service), and after hearing for years about "what a value satellite is", I tried to make the switch.
No matter which way I diced it, I was still coming out ahead sticking with cable. | |
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Rdhdrummer
@charter.com | Satellite vs Cable One word in satellite's favor CHARTER (Expensive, Poor picture quality) | |
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Justme55
@direcpc.com
| Re: Satellite vs Cable Call your inlaws, or neighbor, sign up for 4 or max 6 sat recievers. Split the cost, share the recievers. Can't order PPV's fine, join netflix. Compare that to cable. No comparison.
Unethical? Sure, check your credit card statement for "late fees", your Sirius radio bill for hidden "cancellation fees" your ..... paypal account or ebay account for excess nonsense fees that they insist are "ethical" did you read page 6 paragraph 7 in the fine print?
Or, if you want to lecture me about ethics, call up a U/A employee with 30 years of service and ask him about his pension, or contact someone Directv "sued" and extorted $3000 from because they bought a smart card programmer 2 or 3 years ago. (Or hire a lawyer and defend yourself for $3000 in federal court, your choice.) (google it)
"Let go to lunch Senator, I know a nice place, with a good wine list, I am sure you will support that upcoming bill that protects my ongoing high priced content delivery monopoly in "your home town" unquote.
I think you get the idea. Pls spare me the "ethics" lectures, I never ever stole a pencil from work, or walmart, or anywhere, but these pseudo monopolies "selling" content are and never have been and never will be ethical.
Loyalty (and in my view "ethics") is a two way street.
Just my input. I sleep fine at night. | |
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