 AVonGauss
Premium,MVM
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL | Smaller Operations I would bet its not just the "smaller operations" that are at risk. | |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | Re: Smaller Operations true, that. | |
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exseven
Premium,VIP
join:2003-05-23
Beamsville, ON
1 edit | Re: Smaller Operations Doesnt DSLR work out of a single data center?
i mean
doesnt DSLR bet against random chance and hosting all of their eggs in one highly flammable basket. | |
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SterlingJ85
Obama 2008
join:2000-11-19
Millville, NJ | Re: Smaller Operations Yes, they are in my old data center.
NetAccessCorp's Octagon Facility in Parsippany, NJ | |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·Comcast
| Re: Smaller Operations said by KrK  :The thing is, you never know how good your disaster recovery plans are until the day you need them :/ There's been tons of documented cases of "backups to the backups" failing when then were needed most. Absolutely true. And why backups and disaster plans need to be tested regularly.
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| | | | | dsless
join:2001-05-16
Pittsburgh, PA
| Re: Smaller Operations The purpose of a DR test to test the business continuation model. Only critical systems are usually tested at DR. The company I work for does this once a year at Sun guard. It is kind of exciting to go. It shows how good you are a thinking on you feet. | |
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whizkid3
Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-21
Queens, NY
·Earthlink Cable Mo..
| Well it sounds like the facility had a lower tier redundancy rating. "Larger operations" typically house their most critical applications in a higher tier facility, with more redundancy and compartmentialization of critical components.
The fire was not in the data hall, but in an electrical room. Lower tier facilities tend not to have their redundant electrical equipment 'compartmentalized'. That may have not been the case here.
While gaseous fire protection systems frequently are used to supress a raised-floor data hall environment from fire, they also have pre-action sprinklers (with dry pipes to avoid leaks) to protect the IT equipment from fire.
Having any type of gaseous protection in electrical equipment rooms of any kind (UPS rooms, transformer vaults, battery rooms, excluding diesel generator rooms) is very rare. Most electrical rooms are pre-action sprinklered, with some that have wet pipes (the latter not being recommended).
When rooms like this go on fire, the sprinklers of any type - pre-action, dry and wet pipe - the sprinklers are going to do their job and save the building. A fire that large has already destroyed some equipment. Most electrical fires in a room like this, are due to arcing and if last long enough to cause sprinkler fuses to melt, are not going to be suppressed with any type of gaseous suppression system. Because of this and perhaps because often these rooms are already redundant and compartmentalized, it doesn't justify the extra expense when the results. The lower tier data centers don't have fire supression in these rooms, because lower tier rating does not require them.
Likely this facility had a fire and subsequent water discharge so severe, that it took out any redundancy in the electrical systems. | |
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| Seaboogers
join:2004-11-01
Sarasota, FL
| Re: Webhosting on the cheap. said by Mr Matt :  I worked for a web hosting company that designed their backup power system on the cheap. They installed one large generator (about 1.5 Megawatt) to power the entire building. I recommended three generators, one or two of which could power the entire operation in case the third was down for maintenance. After I left the company, a major hurricane alerted the company that I was right. The facilities manager had significant problems keeping their generator up and running for the two weeks it took to restore commercial power. Ha....this sounds like Sagonet in Tampa, FL | |
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WiFiguru
Formerly jnethostman
Premium
join:2005-06-21
Lodi, CA
| Re: Automated Sprinklers In A Data Center??? said by KA3SGM :WTF? Data Center Fire Suppression using WATER??? I hope that's just a joke. I wouldn't trust any place that didn't use HALON 1211, CO2, or one of the more Ozone-Friendly HALON Replacements. It has to be some type of Oxygen Depleting Chemical Vapor Extinguisher. Anything like Powdered Dry Chemical or Water, destroys everything it touches. Yeah, from what I hear...the fire sprinklers used produced water out of the spouts....I know where my equipment sits, it has special fire powder/CO2 -- NOT water. | |
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MadDog3057
Ex Astris, Scientia
Premium
join:2002-02-26
Miami, FL | I was just thinking the same thing. There's even one that I remember reading about that has a reduced oxygen level to prevent combustion. | |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| Re: Automated Sprinklers In A Data Center??? said by KA3SGM :said by MadDog3057 :I was just thinking the same thing. There's even one that I remember reading about that has a reduced oxygen level to prevent combustion. I wouldn't want to work in that type of Reduced Oxygen Environment, I actually like breathing. Do we need to earn a new MCSE certification?? Micro$oft Certified Suffocating Engineer It is not as bad as it sounds. Years & years ago I worked in a data center that had these systems(mine was Halon). And 30 secs before they were activated a screaming siren and flashing lights warned of discharge. Plenty of time to leave the affected area. And if the worst case prevented exit somehow, their were emergency switches placed everywhere to disable the discharge of the Halon.
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MadDog3057
Ex Astris, Scientia
Premium
join:2002-02-26
Miami, FL
| said by KA3SGM :said by MadDog3057 :I was just thinking the same thing. There's even one that I remember reading about that has a reduced oxygen level to prevent combustion. I wouldn't want to work in that type of Reduced Oxygen Environment, I actually like breathing. Do we need to earn a new MCSE certification?? Micro$oft Certified Suffocating Engineer It's not that bad. It's just a bit harder to breathe just like if you were up on a mountain.
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| thecptrgod
join:2008-04-03
Madison, WI | According to the article, this happened where the power connects to the building, not the server room.
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tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
·Comcast
1 edit | The fire was in a VENTED electrical vault, a no go for halon, dry chemical may lead to arcing/poses clean hazards/problems for minor fires, and is death to generators (powder is somewhere between baking soda and comet cleanser)
The error seems to be the design that put the single utility feed, generator and transfer switches in the same area (two utility feeds/vaults SHOULD be in different locations, the gensets in 1 or more other locations and the transfer switches and chases (the ONLY common point) SHOULD be sealed and halon/CO2/low Oxy protected.
I believe this was due to the TV station which uses the roof space (Common generator location) for a heli-pad and roof deck( broadcast location for weather/etc.)
Given that there are several nearby (within a few blocks)data centers with better/ more dedicated/survivable designs, this has to be hurting future space sales. | |
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| b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?
join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA | Any worse than automated sprinklers in an electrical engineering R&D lab?
Makes one hell of a mess, believe me. | |
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| Joe12345678
join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL
| said by KA3SGM :WTF? Data Center Fire Suppression using WATER??? I hope that's just a joke. I wouldn't trust any place that didn't use HALON 1211, CO2, or one of the more Ozone-Friendly HALON Replacements. It has to be some type of Oxygen Depleting Chemical Vapor Extinguisher. Anything like Powdered Dry Chemical or Water, destroys everything it touches. some fire codes force them to use water | |
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KA3SGM
- -... ...- -
Premium
join:2006-01-17
West Chester, PA
clubs:
·Cricket Broadband
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Automated Sprinklers In A Data Center??? Do Fire Codes require your local firefighters to put out an Electrical Substation Fire with Water???
With the power still turned on??
What's the big deal with 35,000 volts and a little bit of water anyway... 
I'll have to research this with the NFPA codes, because it doesn't sound logical at all.
I don't want to be holding onto a Soaker line, that is dumping water onto ANYTHING electrical, that is still live.
I still would never in a second, consider deploying a critical computer server at a facility that uses a Water Sprinkler system.
Forget the Ammonium Sulfate/Phosphate "Dry Chemical" as well.
I have done restoration work on a computer center that had a fire that was extinguished with "Dry Chemical", and every computer within a 50 foot radius was destroyed by the fire extinguisher.
The abrasive dry chemical "magically" found itself contaminating the bearings of every cooling fan around, completely seized them up, and burnt up every single computer, due to the lack of cooling air.
Go pour a bucket of sand into your PC and see how long it lives....
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romulusnr
join:2007-08-01
Federal Way, WA
| timing is everything The place where I work had its systems in Fisher Plaza, and they were scheduled to move out of Fisher a few weeks after the fire.
They ended up doing the move while Fisher was down and saved about half a day of outage, plus the planned outage later.
FWIW the sprinklers were on the generators, not the servers. | |
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RR Conductor
RailRoadDude
Premium
join:2002-04-02
Redwood Valley, CA | What about Halon? Do any of these use Halon or something similar? | |
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Fireman8
@spcsdns.net
| Fire Protection in a Data Center Halon and its replacements today (FM-200, ECARO-25 or any of the others in NFPA 2001, Standard for Clean Agent Suppression Systems) do not deplete the oxygen level. That was the beauty of Halon. You could breath in a discharge. And you still can in any of its replacements. Clean Agents put out the fire by chemical reaction with the fire; taking the heat out of the fire and by impeding the chain reaction required for combustion. Additionally they leave no residue on the equipment. Many data centers are now protected with clean agents because as this incident shows you do not want to put water on your equipment, even the generator that provides you backup power.
That halon depleted the oxygen in a room is myth. Incorrect understanding on how it put out a fire. Co2 does deplete the oxygen content but not halon or its ozone friendly replacements. | |
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v35_pilot
Whoops, there goes another AMU
Premium
join:2005-12-12
Fayetteville, NY | Windows Secrets... ..., an email newsletter service, was affected by this data center fire. Their upcoming newsletter will have plenty to say about this topic. | |
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Seattle Data Center Fire Gets Redundant
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Webhosting on the cheap.
