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story category Senate Passes Broadband Stimulus Package
Senate and house versions will now be reconciled...
(old news - 03:16PM Tuesday Feb 10 2009)
tags: legal · coverage · business · legislation · Politics
By a 61-37 vote (you can see a roll call here) The U.S. Senate today approved a $838 billion economic stimulus package, which includes $7 billion to be spent on broadband services. The bill now needs to be reconciled with a similar bill in the House that would dole out $6 billion for broadband, both versions relying largely on grants to help fund deployment into coverage gaps. The New York Times stated yesterday that huge tax credits that will benefit largely Verizon remain in the bill. Consumer advocate group Public Knowledge issued an alert saying that Democrat Dianne Feinstein was trying to sneak copyright filters into the bill (it's not clear if she was successful). Consumer advocate group Free Press issued a statement applauding the fact that grant money in both bills still requires carriers to hold fast to network openness.

Related:
  1. Wednesday Evening Links
  2. Monday Evening Links
  3. Tuesday Morning Links
  4. Let's Be Clear: ISPs Don't Want Accurate Public Broadband Data
  5. Here Comes The Connected Nation Sales Pitch
  6. Want To Help Uncle Sam Hand Out Broadband Stimulus?
  7. What Network Neutrality Is REALLY About
  8. AT&T: Google Is The Enemy Of Nuns
Forums » Senate Passes Broadband Stimulus Package
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fiberguy
My views are my own.
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join:2005-05-20

In a way...

... I'm glad this was included.. however, I hope it does come with strings as stated.. and I wished they'd have put more towards this.

This is actually one bill that WOULD create jobs.. when ever these large build out projects come up, crews are hired and assembled to fulfill the contracts.. nationwide, this will create jobs in the thousands...

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

Re: In a way...

One can only hope that there's actually a timeline with it as well. Many companies would probably prefer to hord money until there's a push.
--
Canada = Hollywood North

DaveNJ
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said by fiberguy See Profile :

... I'm glad this was included.. however, I hope it does come with strings as stated.. and I wished they'd have put more towards this.

This is actually one bill that WOULD create jobs.. when ever these large build out projects come up, crews are hired and assembled to fulfill the contracts.. nationwide, this will create jobs in the thousands...
Well like to think that, but i have serious doubts. Its probably going into a fund, and maybe $1 is going actually increase broadband.
--
Communism doesn't work because people like to own stuff - Frank Zappa


Pizz
Hi

join:2000-10-27
Astoria, NY

Re: In a way...

I hope this creates jobs in the build-out / engineering / plant tech sectors. Still don't think this will do 1 iota on the caps/throttling landscape.
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
With all due respect, I don't think you read my post very close. And, I think you're pessimistic outlook is pretty extreme.
PapaMidnight

join:2009-01-13
Baltimore, MD

Re: In a way...

With all due respect (no sarcasm intended), his pessimistic view is pretty realistic based on the historical pattern of past funding. Wonder what ever happened to that $250 Billion...
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20

Re: In a way...

said by PapaMidnight See Profile :

With all due respect (no sarcasm intended), his pessimistic view is pretty realistic based on the historical pattern of past funding. Wonder what ever happened to that $250 Billion...
.. then lets just all sit here.. piss and moan.. call foul at every turn and bitch down everything ever put forth.. great attitude for getting out of a mess, right?

I mean, he may be right.. but, his 'feelings' at this point are unfounded and baseless UNTIL it happens. I mean, why don't we just do nothing, ever, at all, and see how well that work? No one has seen the spending bill yet and seen what kind of enforcement has been written into this bill. Since no one has seen it yet, it remains to be seen.

I personally do not like this bill, any of it, as being presented.. BUT, I'm withholding opinion in full until I can see it for myself.

Luwigie
Premium
join:2002-06-06
East Lansing, MI
clubs:

Neutrality ... But how many homes?

Net neutrality being in the bill is huge. Hopefully legislation will force these companies to remain neutral if they accept some of these funds.

However, how many homes will $7B actually light up? Based on a Verizon report in Q1 07' (all I could find) they are expecting $700 per home passed in 2010. I assume that this is in high population centers, so this cost is probably a magnitude more in rural areas. If we assume $700 is accurate, this is 10 million homes if it's all spent on last mile infrastructure. I'm sure the number is FAR lower in reality. Are these funds going to make a dent?
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20

Re: Neutrality ... But how many homes?

said by Luwigie See Profile :

Are these funds going to make a dent?
Doubt it.. look at what they, Verizon, alone has already spent on what they did.

There's two ways to look at this.. 1) Is the US paying to build out the services? .. or 2) Is the US paying to subsidize part of the build out?

... it's all in how the providers look at it. This is one area I think I would have spent much more money.. this is a service/product that affects many people in one stroke.

If they want network neutrality, I would have simply put the money out there with standard strings on it and simply legislated neutrality on a separate bill all together. NN is going to happen, or not.. but, being sneaky about it will never bring NN that some people want.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
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Tulsa, OK
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Re: Neutrality ... But how many homes?

What I suspect will happen is: They will take taxpayer $$$ and still not have to deliver anything really other then what they were going to anyway, and consumers will not see any additional benefits or breaks, and little will change.

In other words, the money will be wasted and go into the profits of the Telecom companies without providing the taxpayer any real value for the $$$ spent. (Or wasted.)

The argument will be "It created work, therefore we met our obligations" I feel.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

Matt
Gone playing Dragon Age Origins
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join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..

said by Luwigie See Profile :

Are these funds going to make a dent?
Not really, but as has been stated numerous times, this isn't the official "Broadband Stimulus" bill. This is just one part of a much larger bill to help stimulate as many sectors as possible to get people back to work.

morbo
Complete Your Transaction

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00000
clubs:

Re: Neutrality ... But how many homes?

also known as, throw as much money as possible at a problem and pray that it works.

Matt
Gone playing Dragon Age Origins
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·North State Commun..

Re: Neutrality ... But how many homes?

said by morbo See Profile :

also known as, throw as much money as possible at a problem and pray that it works.
What does your opinion of the plan have to do with the original question?

morbo
Complete Your Transaction

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clubs:

Re: Neutrality ... But how many homes?

it's commentary. what's your opinion about my commentary have to do with the thread?

Matt
Gone playing Dragon Age Origins
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·North State Commun..

Re: Neutrality ... But how many homes?

said by morbo See Profile :

it's commentary. what's your opinion about my commentary have to do with the thread?
Seriously, are we 10 years old? Should I pull out a Pee Wee Herman, "I'm rubber and you're glue ..." next?

Here, let's start over. So, morbo, do you think $7 billion dollars will make a dent in the broadband deployment problem in the US?

morbo
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Re: Neutrality ... But how many homes?

don't be an ass when responding to my original post and maybe this won't devolve into a pissing contest. the point of my original post that this won't make a dent in broadband deployment OR stimulating the economy. i believe that it's throwing money at a problem and hoping for the best.
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20

Re: Neutrality ... But how many homes?

You've proven that some people should stick to their day jobs and let the people that actually understand finances and spending do their jobs..

.. one thing stands to be sure.. that is that the attitudes of the MAJORITY here at BBR are in NO way near reality.

morbo
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Re: Neutrality ... But how many homes?

yes, and who exactly would that be that understands finances and spending? the economists that couldn't see a total collapse of the U.S. and world economy coming one year out? or is it the treasury secretary et al. that is simply guessing at what will work? no one knows if and what will work and only the honest ones will admit it. at this point, it's just throw money at the problem and pray that it helps. some members of congress will admit that, although then they are crucified for doing so. apparently, pretending to know the solution is better. the reality that no one knows what will work is frightening.
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20

Re: Neutrality ... But how many homes?

To say that ALL economists are wrong, is too wrong. MANY of them saw this collapse coming.. very few didn't. POLITICIANS didn't see it coming, rather, they closed their eyes and continued to feed themselves from the public troff. There is a major difference.

Further, the same politicians are sitting back and trying to fix something with out, well, to be honest, checking with economists that know what they're doing.

Politicians are generally attorneys prior to taking their jobs.. they are FAR from people that know what they're doing when it comes to money.

What IS frightening is that Obama's own Secretary who looks a these models says that HIS plan will be only HALF as effective as the ones the republicans put forth. She's make it clear publicly yet they won't listen..

Matt
Gone playing Dragon Age Origins
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Re: Neutrality ... But how many homes?

said by fiberguy See Profile :

Further, the same politicians are sitting back and trying to fix something with out, well, to be honest, checking with economists that know what they're doing.
Yep, sure doesn't look like this team knows what they are doing at all.

HD_Ride
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1 edit
said by fiberguy See Profile :

You've proven that some people should stick to their day jobs and let the people that actually understand finances and spending do their jobs..

.. one thing stands to be sure.. that is that the attitudes of the MAJORITY here at BBR are in NO way near reality.
Here it is, "People that actually understand finances and spending doing their jobs"

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNS8IY_Td14
gbondy

join:2002-11-22
Edwardsville, IL

Re: Neutrality ... But how many homes?

Something on Glenn Beck in reference to "people that understand"? That's hilarious.

HD_Ride
Premium
join:2000-10-18
Trenton, NJ

Re: Neutrality ... But how many homes?

I’ll see if I could find one for you with Keith Olbermann and Bob Costas playing pitcher/catcher...
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20

said by gbondy See Profile :

Something on Glenn Beck in reference to "people that understand"? That's hilarious.
If you look at what he's saying, WHICH IS VERIFIABLE FACT, and you think he's wrong.. then you have a serious issue of your own to deal with. I guess becuase he's on a heavy republican based news network that he's wrong?

One thing that people need to "get"... there are bad republicans.. just as there are bad democrats. There are also VERY GOOD republicans as there are VERY good democrats.. To stand on a party line and walk it, for sure, IS bad! NEITHER party has a one line path to prosperity and a good future. Why? ... becuase there are two sides to this country, and more actually. You can't govern this country one sides becuase about 50% will be left out.

Glen Beck DID his the spot on this one and it's spot on. THIS part of analysis is the easy part.. you can't dispute facts.. but getting the nation on the right track.. well, that's where it's GOING to take time.. with out looking at the past and studying it, as others have said, it's basically splat and see what sticks which WON'T work.. that's your people's method, I assume.. so.. feel proud.

xdeadhead
220, 221, Whatever It Takes.
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Mechanicsburg, PA

1 edit
@gbondi funniest post ever. and truest.

aybaybay

@comcast.net

from:
RobXMiller See Profile

Don't expect any stimulation this year

It's to be spent over a ten year period »www.readthestimulus.org/
deadzoned
Premium
join:2005-04-13
Baton Rouge, LA
·Cox HSI

My take

My take is that if this Broadband Stimulus Package was something that actually held the big broadband providers accountable and made them do some things that they don't want to do on their own, that it would have been killed through massive lobbying efforts.

More than likely it's more of the same. A big tax payer funded payoff to them with nothing in place to track what they do with the money and hold them accountable for their actions or in-actions.

cbrigante2
Cubs 20??
Premium
join:2002-11-22
North Aurora, IL


1 edit

7B?

I thought I just read that they cut the 7 billion in half to 3.5 billion on this portion of the package?

»www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/07/···dex.html

GOLFnSUN
Enjoy the sun
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Avalon, NJ
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2 edits

Re: 7B?

said by cbrigante2 See Profile :

I thought I just read that they cut the 7 billion in half to 3.5 billion on this portion of the package?

»www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/07/···dex.html

Fully eliminated
• $2 billion for broadband
It was cut from $9 billion in the Senate bill down to $7 billion as part of the compromise with Senate moderates. The House version has $6 billion. The Senate/House conference committee have to decide on a compromise on the whole stimulus pkg. At that time the amount of money for broadband could actually go up or even go down to zero, though either of those options is unlikely. It will probably be somewhere in the range of $6 to $7 billion.
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Roflmao

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Bleh

I am skeptical about this. I don't think this will make a big difference in the broadband industry but I am sure it will create a few jobs. Yay here comes increased taxes screwing ourselves again.
--
The Internet is about to go down....it is actually.
me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO

Can someone tell me what nurtality actuly is?

I have a decent idea of what it is, but I don't know if it mean no throttling or no caps or both.

See 14 replies to this post

Fox McCloud
Crazy like a fox.

join:2006-07-23

Booooo!

yay, more interference in the market-place...

R4M0N
Brazilian Soccer Ownz Joo

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Glen Allen, VA
·Comcast


3 edits

They can keep the broadband stimulus

Along with this also in it:

Bloomberg.com

(Page numbers refer to H.R. 1 EH, pdf version)

But the bill goes further. One new bureaucracy, the National Coordinator of Health Information Technology, will monitor treatments to make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government deems appropriate and cost effective. The goal is to reduce costs and “guide” your doctor’s decisions (442, 446). These provisions in the stimulus bill are virtually identical to what Daschle prescribed in his 2008 book, “Critical: What We Can Do About the Health-Care Crisis.” According to Daschle, doctors have to give up autonomy and “learn to operate less like solo practitioners.”

Keeping doctors informed of the newest medical findings is important, but enforcing uniformity goes too far.

New Penalties

Hospitals and doctors that are not “meaningful users” of the new system will face penalties. “Meaningful user” isn’t defined in the bill. That will be left to the HHS secretary, who will be empowered to impose “more stringent measures of meaningful use over time” (511, 518, 540-541)

What penalties will deter your doctor from going beyond the electronically delivered protocols when your condition is atypical or you need an experimental treatment? The vagueness is intentional. In his book, Daschle proposed an appointed body with vast powers to make the “tough” decisions elected politicians won’t make.

The stimulus bill does that, and calls it the Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research (190-192). The goal, Daschle’s book explained, is to slow the development and use of new medications and technologies because they are driving up costs. He praises Europeans for being more willing to accept “hopeless diagnoses” and “forgo experimental treatments,” and he chastises Americans for expecting too much from the health-care system.
If having any broadband package means the government thinks it can tell my doctor how to be more efficient (what a joke) and how to treat me, they can stick it where the sun don't shine.
lvlorpheus

join:2008-02-17
Eureka Springs, AR

It would seem to me

It would seem to me that the big providers are not going to get a lot of chances to get a 30 to 40% tax break over the next 50 years. To me it seem like now is the time for them to get as much of the stimulus funds as they can and invest some of their own capital as well to build out as much of the unserviced parts of the country as they can. I am sure the ROI is not going to pay return like big business has gotten used to in the last few years, but can anyone say that broadband is not the wave of the future.

With an almost 50% increase in population projected over the next 50 years many rural areas will look a lot more suburban I would think. I would think any of the big companies would want to build as much of their networks now with big 30 to 40% tax breaks and not later when the incentive is likely to not be their.

I am sure someone will see some holes in my logic.
SuperWISP

join:2007-04-17
Laramie, WY

"Network neutrality" would monkey wrench competition

The latest version of the Senate bill that was published online didn't include "network neutrality" provisions, and I certainly hope that the final one will not. Attaching such provisions to the stimulus would create two-tiered regulation: incumbents with existing infrastructure, or with big money to build out on their own, wouldn't have to meet these onerous requirements while new competitors financed by the stimulus money would. This would put newcomers at a severe disadvantage both in terms of pricing and quality of service. ("Network neutrality" constraints prevent the provider from managing the network to prevent hogging of the network via P2P, so the quality of such networks would suck, big time.) And the "open access" requirements in the House version of the bill would kill WISPs. For more, see »www.brettglass.com/bbstim.pdf

See 6 replies to this post

P Ness
You'Ve Forgotten 9-11 Already
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Mineola, NY
clubs:

Waste of Money

Great so we are going to approve this and whom do you think is going to get all this money??

the incumbent carriers i am sure....

you know the ones that are already making billions...

and what happens to the billions we already give them for rural services...you know the one that is riddled with fraud and accomplishes NOTHING
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@comcast.net

Re: Waste of Money

said by P Ness See Profile :

and what happens to the billions we already give them for rural services...you know the one that is riddled with fraud and accomplishes NOTHING
Excellent point!

FWIW, the telco execs will use most of this money to buy yachts, luxury cars, vacation homes and various other toys. So in a way, this money will stimulate the economy.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
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Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast

Call It What It Is

Click for full size
Oink Oink
Maybe we'll be seeing "flying stimuli" soon enough.
--
Blagojevich / Madoff 2012!

mrchris
We don't miss you Bush
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North Babylon, NY

figures

Typical to see all the GOP vote against it despite all the spending they did in 2000 through 2008.
Pv8man

join:2008-07-24
Hammond, IN

Re: figures

lol, ya, it's very ironic.

The only "Long term" stratagy the GOP has ever come up with latley is to add as much crap to the bill as possible, basically sabatoge the bill, then vote against it and blame the democrats.

Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus

join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
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Re: figures

said by Pv8man See Profile :

lol, ya, it's very ironic.

The only "Long term" stratagy the GOP has ever come up with latley is to add as much crap to the bill as possible, basically sabatoge the bill, then vote against it and blame the democrats.
That sounds so stupid I'll bet you think Obama is the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ.

As for rural areas that will get the money you just might see a couple of rec centers in rich rural gated communities that have donated large sums of money to the Democraps get wired. Traditional Republican areas like Wyoming will see squat.
--
I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.
- Mark Twain in Eruption
Pv8man

join:2008-07-24
Hammond, IN

Re: figures

Oh how did I know that one was coming, I mention how the repubs are trying to sabotage the bill, and now I'm in love with obama some how?

Actually If you must know, I think RON PAUL is the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ.

Duramax08
Oh rly?

join:2008-08-03
San Antonio, TX

Now to see what happens......

I hope I finally get some kind of high speed internet now. This is pretty much my only chance of getting something since ATT dont want to put a RT for 3k feet.
--
OM NOM NOM

Air WAV

join:2000-09-16
Saint Louis, MO


2 edits

New Broadband Definitions

Under the new stimulus bill the new broadband definitions are:

Broadband Service - 45/15 Mbps

Advanced Wireless Broadband Service - 3/1 Mbps
and
Basic Wireless Broadband Service - 5/1 Mbps

In Title VI - BROADBAND COMMUNICATIONS (pg 661-662)
»www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/0···144.html
--
»StLouisBroadband.com

mikedz4

join:2003-04-14
Weirton, WV

Re: New Broadband Definitions

so does that mean that places like west virginia that get forgotten will actually get FIOS or another Fiber Optic internet service in 2050 instead of after I die around 2080 or so?

yolarry

join:2007-12-29
Creston, WV

Re: New Broadband Definitions

It will probably be 50 years. Every ISP company should help finish DSL

CtrlAltDel
WORSE. THAN. CARTER.
Arbitrary Text
join:2001-12-30
Backyard
·1and1
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Stop Printing Money

And stop throwing my tax money at private enterprise. Keep the government OUT of my bedroom and boardroom.

Let business take care of business and let government take care of those incapable of caring for themselves.

This stimulus package is bullcrap.
--
OBAMA IS THE NEW "RAILSPLITTER"

OBAMA, CHANGE WE CAN'T COUNT ON
kfleming99

join:2004-02-17
Seminole, FL

RIP

Who cares about broadband at this point.

The USA is on its way out just like the Roman or Egyptian empires. Individual rights are on its way out Instead we now embrace socialism, and mob rule.

RIP USA

Phantom 2
On no he can't
Premium
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Re: RIP

kfleming99,you are right on.Finally someone that knows what they're talking about.We're on the verge of economic collapse.Who cares about broadband?We'll be using two cans and a string again soon.
--
Welcome home Vietnam Vets."We were soldiers once...and young"
bilbusb

join:2003-04-10
Tucker, GA
·Service Electric B..

bb

1 tillion dollars .. for god sake.

Don't ask for this bill to pass, just because you want fios ....

They are spending everything we have. This is the bigest spending bill in world history.

I don't care if this bill gets me 1gb to my home .. its pork.
sbcretired

join:2006-01-07
Scottville, MI
·AT&T Midwest

Re: bb

I have a son and daughter both grown, one without a job (just declared surplus), the other on shakey ground.
What good is broadband if all the work is in China and Mexico? Folks who loose their homes wont be on the internet save for a public computer at the library.
RobXMiller

join:2009-02-08
Denver, CO

Internet Spending Spree - No US jobs created

Some interesting articles from the new Secretary of Labor about the dire shortage of technical workers in the US.

How we need to expand the H-1B program to the Internet companies... and so on.

Big surprise, he worked with this import tech worker program before taking this position....

Meet the New Boss ... Same as the Old Boss

I feel that this so called plan is just a way for big business to not hire American technical workers.
Forums » Senate Passes Broadband Stimulus Packagepage: 1 · 2


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