  VanPremium
join:2009-07-08
New Orleans, LA | It really is sad that things of this nature are kept completely secret from us (negotiation wise)
It makes you wonder what exactly they are doing | |
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 | DesdinovaPremium
join:2003-01-26
Gaithersburg, MD | Re: It really is sad that things of this nature Actually, based ON the secrecy, I think we can determine EXACTLY what they're doing: the same old shell game that protects the minority at the expense of the majority. | |
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| | | | Re: It really is sad that things of this nature I know one thing:
Hollywood has lost me as a customer.I refuse to buy any new movies and if I need one I find them used.The only new Hollywood I buy is TV DVD Boxsets to help support a show I enjoy.
No RIAA,MPAA, and their stooges get my business.
This whole ACTA thing is pretty scary and I want to know what it is about.It should be released to the public. | |
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|  ThrowDemsOutIf you can't convince 'em, confuse 'emPremium
join:2002-03-03
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:4
3 edits | said by Van:are kept completely secret from us (negotiation wise) It makes you wonder what exactly they are doing The NEGOTIATIONS are secret - NOT the end product, which must be approved by the relevant authorities in each country signing on to the agreement. In the US the Senate has to approve this and the language will be available for all to see at that time. Don't like the agreement, then call your Senators and tell them to vote no.
The US isn't the only participant in the negotiations. So why aren't other countries releasing the info? Because all countries know that multilateral negotiations between many countries(including non-democracies) can't ever be completed with the press reporting every zig and zag of the deal making.
And it does get approved/disapproved in each country separately based on that country's laws. There is no worldwide plebiscite capability existing(though the "1 world controlled by the UN" people wish there were). There is the UN, but that is not a democratic organization and has no capability to pass laws applicable to countries that don't agree to those laws.
P.S.>> And it is a TREATY(as opposed to what some here are saying) and needs approval by the Senate.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Count···greement
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| | | | Re: It really is sad that things of this nature So what good are those "negotiations" when they are made available as you claim and the citizens and/or their representation scream bloody murder?
Why not have it open and tore apart during the negotiations to have it something that would be viable in the end. Instead of trying to be secret then get it tore apart and have to start again.
At least being open would show good faith and allow many people (especially those with the technical knowledge and experience) to give input directly or indirectly. | |
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| | | ThrowDemsOutIf you can't convince 'em, confuse 'emPremium
join:2002-03-03
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:4 | Re: It really is sad that things of this nature said by Skippy25:Why not have it open and tore apart during the negotiations Because many countries wouldn't take part then. | |
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| | | | | | Re: It really is sad that things of this nature Does that matter?
If they won't take part if it is open, what are they going to do when it does become open and up for public scrutiny? They going to step aside then? If so, then let them do it now. | |
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| | | | |  Noah VailSon made my AvatarPremium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:1
 ·Bright House
 ·Sprint Mobile Br..
1 edit | Re: It really is sad that things of this nature said by Skippy25:Does that matter? If they won't take part if it is open, what are they going to do when it does become open and up for public scrutiny? They going to step aside then? If so, then let them do it now. Worrying about negotiating partners is one worry.
Worrying about the constitutency/proletariat + agenda-ridden-press is another.
One of those worries at a time is difficult enough. Both simultaneously, while being competent in negotiations is likely impossible.
If you support the efforts of the senators, this is what you have to keep in mind.
If you are against the efforts of the senators, then transparency is your friend.
I suppose the right and wrong of the issue, depend on what your desires are.
How's THAT for Moral Equivalency brought to life?
NV
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In my perfect religion, a giant hole appears and sucks up all the lousy people.
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| |  NOCManMacChatterPremium
join:2004-09-30
Colorado Springs, CO | All the have to do to get it passed is to tie it to a defense spending bill. No senator will vote against it. | |
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1 edit | Re: It really is sad that things of this nature said by NOCMan:All the have to do to get it passed is to tie it to a defense spending bill. No senator will vote against it. I bet you haven't spent a day in the military service of your country.
I suggest you put your butt on the line someday for something greater then your own self worth. Then maybe you will get an inkling of what the men and women that all volunteer to serve understand with there hearts.
Despite what you may think the USA is involved in a war not of our choosing. Do not forget it was first brought to our shores with thousands of lives lost. It was not a war of our choosing but a war of very different beliefs. I for one will not sell this country short because of the short term memory I see happening with this post.
To not fund armed forces involved in a battle that were put in harms way by the very government and people that they are willing to die to protect is in itself an act of cowardice.
If you disagree with the war effort then get them home and do what you wish. But please do not cause harm to those who are at risk doing what there countrymen sent them to do.
Nobody on earth hates war more then the military itself. Ask the next patriot in uniform I'm sure thats what they will tell you.
A USN veteran. | |
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thumbs down from:
ThrowDemsOut 
| Perhaps, but in negotiating, a government pretty much agrees to certain terms even before signing. Especially terms which that particular country demanded. Once negotiations are done, it's not so much a fight to avoid signing, but a lot of horse trading to get others to drink the koolaid.
That said, it's likely the USA will sign this one, as it is THAT country that is the driving force behind draconian copyright measures like ACTA. I wouldn't be overly surprised if there are some clauses involving torture and imprisonment without due process in there for alleged copyright violators (alleged, since no proof would be required, just as with your guests at the Gitmo resort). | |
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| | | Re: A government cover up. Interestingly, the DMCA was passed with a verbal vote in the House and unanimous consent in the Senate. IOW, nobody wanted to sign their name to it.
I really wish people would realize that when you give the Government power, it uses it only in ways that will give it yet more power. The Government is not a philanthropic organization.
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Time... beckoning me. | |
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| | The key is the corporations If that's not showing you how totally corrupt the US government, nothing will. Why does a CORPORATION get to write a law that affects the citizens of the US? The pendulum has swung WAY to far to the right with respect to the rights and powers of the corporation. The simple fact of the matter, is that the corporations KNOW that if their buying of the congress is made public, there will be a backlash. Which of course, is why both congress and the fat cat executives of the faceless megacorp don't want any of this seen. It's high time we solve the biggest problem of all, the buying of congress by corporations, and FORBID any donations by corporations to ANY congressman, and PAC, any political process at all. If every member of congress had to raise money from their constituents, instead of being bought by the megacorp, we would never even see such insane proposals in the first place.
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The happiest countries are the most secular. The struggle AGAINST corporations is the struggle FOR humanity! | |
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|  Steve BPremium
join:2004-08-02
Seattle, WA
1 edit | Re: The key is the corporations I have to agree. The only difference is that its no secret that members of congress are bought. We all know it happens. It does need to stop. I agree with what you said plus I believe lobbying needs to be banned as well.
I also emailed both of my state senators about this. That is pretty much all we could do. I hope to God that something happens in our favor. | |
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|  DrModemPremium
join:2006-10-19
USA
kudos:1 | +1 agree | |
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| | | It's high time lobbyists are treated like child molesters. After all, they're out to screw every American, young or old. | |
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| |  IT GuyOw, My BallsPremium
join:2004-07-29
Las Cruces, NM
·Comcast
| Re: The key is the corporations Agreed. The money train to our politicians needs to stop if the American people are really serious about getting control of our country again. Big Business' influence over our government is a great national security threat.
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Don't worry, scrote. There are plenty of 'tards out there living really kick-ass lives. | |
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| | | said by karlmarx:If that's not showing you how totally corrupt the US government, nothing will. Why does a CORPORATION get to write a law that affects the citizens of the US? The pendulum has swung WAY to far to the right with respect to the rights and powers of the corporation. The simple fact of the matter, is that the corporations KNOW that if their buying of the congress is made public, there will be a backlash. Which of course, is why both congress and the fat cat executives of the faceless megacorp don't want any of this seen. It's high time we solve the biggest problem of all, the buying of congress by corporations, and FORBID any donations by corporations to ANY congressman, and PAC, any political process at all. If every member of congress had to raise money from their constituents, instead of being bought by the megacorp, we would never even see such insane proposals in the first place. Totally agree it's not dem vs rep pro this pro that the main problem with this great country is CORPORATIONS AND OF COURSE GREED the only thing we have is a friggin letter to our state officials to say "hey i think i am getting screwed can you please look into this for a taxpayer" the only way to stop this for the common folk like us is revolution, start over let us be in charge not the top 1 percent of our society | |
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| | | Forbidding donations from corporations does make sense. For one, while corporations are legal entities that are viewed similar to people under the law, they aren't people, and can't vote, so they shouldn't be involved in politics at all. However, to make it work, you'd also have to place limitations on how much a person or organization can donate on a yearly basis. Otherwise, the CEO of the EvilEmpire (TM) could just write a huge personal cheque at a political fundraiser, and if he's really evil, be reimbursed for it as a year-end bonus. | |
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Reviews:
 ·TekSavvy DSL
 ·FreePhoneLine
| +1 for transparency! I only wish that our senators and other elected representatives here in Canada wanted to make all the details of ACTA public.
Hopefully senators Sanders & Brown make this happen and by doing so, can effect change in other potential ACTA countries especially ours since our law will 'mirror the US law as closely as possible'.
»ACTA - "stick as closely to U.S. law as possible" | |
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Reviews:
 ·Verizon FiOS
| state secret! I'll give you a state secet.. how about this.. consumers have secret meetings to develop a new fuel source & infrastructure that completely (and literally OVERNIGHT) puts the OIL industry out of business! Be it from hydrogen, natural gas, electricity, etc. A global boycott on oil products started at the grass roots consumer level, but kept secret from the oil industry until it's too late.
There are no justifications for having TRADE agreements amongst nations kept in secret, unless a special interest has something to hide & gain over consumers. The agreement as individual laws will become unenforceable in many countries if draconian anti-piracy, intellectual property & copyright laws are part of them. DOA, DOA, DOA, DOA. | |
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| | | Re: state secret! VT not VI. | |
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 AlpinePremium
join:2000-01-11
Atlanta, GA | Agree I don't normally agree with socialists like Sanders, but I definitely do in this case. Need disclosure here... | |
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 badtripI heart the East BayPremium
join:2004-03-20
Albany, CA | Bernie I wish we could clone Bernie 99 times so we can all have one of him representing us in senate. If I ever met him in person, I'd give him a high five. | |
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 Simba7
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT | ACTA = Screw the world over and get away with it I'm glad someone is opposed to this bullsh*t. I'm getting really sick of the corporations running the world, especially the RI/MPAA. Now-a-days, the Government is useless due to all the damn lobbyists.
I applaud Sanders and Brown. I hope our senators want this made public, too (Hey Tester and Schweitzer).
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|  KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: ACTA = Screw the world over and get away with it I've NEVER had any luck with Senator Inhoffe. Every time I've written him on an issue, he's sent back a form letter taking the EXACT OPPOSITE position I was writing to support or defend.
... but I'm going to try again on this. He doesn't strike me as being much of a fan of the UN or the "International laws over the U.S." model. I already know he doesn't mind draconian copyright laws, but I hope he comes out opposed to this.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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| | Someone forgot to contribute... The senators who are pushing for disclosure probably didn't get their re-election contributions from the entertainment groups. The large corporations know perfectly well that government can be bought at all levels. | |
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|  wmcbrine213 251 145 96
join:2002-12-30
Laurel, MD | Re: Someone forgot to contribute... That's nice and cynical, but we're talking here about individual people, not an abstract "government". And I can tell you that, from everything I've seen, Bernie Sanders is not for sale.
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| | Broadband? What does this have to do with broadband? Unless broadbanders are assumed to be pirates? | |
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|  joebarnhartPaxio evangelist
join:2005-12-15
Santa Clara, CA
·Comcast
| Re: Broadband? said by rdmiller:What does this have to do with broadband? Unless broadbanders are assumed to be pirates? It's going to RAISE YOUR PRICES dramatically as ISPs are forced to do deep-packet inspection on every bit of data flowing thru their pipes.
It is going to INCONVENIENCE you when it breaks down, screws up, and genenerally fscks the network.
It's going to be merely the TIP OF THE ICEBERG when government decides it LIKES dictating to all ISPs what they can and cannot do, what traffic they can carry and what content they must restrict.
YOU will pay the price for this idiocy in many ways, many times over. | |
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KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
1 edit | It is my sincere hope ... That that treaty that America's Corporations wanted for the world and negotiated with other Governments to bring about ends up being REJECTED by the U.S. Senate and fails completely and utterly, thus forever destroying our credibility on this issue and ending the threat of it ever happening again.
I know. I can dream, eh?
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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|  KommiePremium
join:2003-05-13
East Haven, CT | Re: It is my sincere hope The Senate needs 75 to Ratify a treaty, very few treaties were ever ratified. | |
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| | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: It is my sincere hope said by Kommie:The Senate needs 75 to Ratify a treaty, very few treaties were ever ratified. True, but most treaties were based on a political or moral goal. This one is all about money. A lot of it.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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| | Passing a bill could stop this Im gonna try to get a meeting with my mp, see if he can table a bill that would make this public or canada would have to drop out. I know the Neo Cons dont like this being secret, they know if by some odd reason it comes to bare, their party would be dead in canda forever. | |
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| | Neo cons love it who ever you are your wrong harper has endorsed , been nice and never ever spoke out nor has his govt about ACTA being secret.
UNTIL he does that publically hes helping ACTA not hindering it. | |
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A government cover up.
Our government has mandated the cover up of any rules policies or regulations that harm American Citizens and take away their rights. First was the DMCA, then disclosing what DRM restricts, then wiretapping American citizens without court supervision and now the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement. If the nature of these new rules were disclosed there might be protests. In Florida we have "Government in the Sunshine", a policy requiring government to allow residents to learn how government is managing state affairs. In Washington we have Government in the dark, trying to stick citizens heads up Uncle Sam's Arse so they will not see how they are being flim·flammed by the special interest groups that pay off government representatives and whose arses, our government representatives kiss.
