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Shaw Wants To 'Consult' Users About Usage Plans
Whether They Listen To Your Input May Be Another Issue

With the CRTC currently reviewing their UBB policies after significant consumer backlash, many Canadian ISPs have backed off mandated overage plans and are in a holding pattern until the smoke clears. Canadian operator Primus says they've stopped charging all overages (giving refunds for any overages charged), and Shaw this week sent out a press release insisting that they too have put their UBB ambitions on hold. According to Shaw, the company won't start charging overages until they've engaged with "consulting sessions" with users, and come up with "a solution that works for everyone":

quote:
"We have been listening to the discussion taking place and determined that we want to hear directly from our own customers before we roll out any kind of program. Wherever we end up needs to work first and foremost for our customers," said Peter Bissonnette, President of Shaw Communications. Shaw will conduct customer discussion sessions in all its serving regions in addition to creating opportunities to contribute feedback online. Customers will be invited to share their ideas with senior Shaw leaders who will participate in the sessions throughout February and March. Until this thorough consultation with customers has taken place, Shaw will not implement Internet usage billing.
Of course Shaw has been working on their low cap, high overage pricing model for a while, and didn't seem too keen on consulting the community until UBB made headlines across Canada. While Shaw reps have shown up in our forums after consumers got angry about new higher rates, it wasn't to "consult" with them -- it was to inform them that charging huge new overages was in no way financially motivated and was in their best interests.

It's not entirely clear how ISPs hope to have a genuine dialog with consumers on this issue if they're not willing to be honest about what this shift away from flat-rate pricing and caps (remember, Canadian connections were already capped) to high per byte overages is really about: turf protection, control, and making more money off of Internet video. So while it's good that Shaw's is at least interested in discussion with the community given that most price proposals so far have totally lacked value, whether Shaw elects to listen to any consumer input may be another matter entirely.
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chuckcar
@kimsufi.com

chuckcar

Anon

They're going to drive the people back to Hong Kong

When British Columbia raised taxes they drove many people who came there from Hong Kong back to Hong Kong. Since UBB is such a huge money grab i'm wondering how many will go back to Hong Kong because of this issue?

nonee
@shawcable.net

nonee

Anon

Re: They're going to drive the people back to Hong Kong

If the cost of internet is enough that people are considering going to back to Hong Kong, then I think those people are barely surviving here as it is and should really question why they're even here then at all.

EUS
Kill cancer
Premium Member
join:2002-09-10
canada

EUS to chuckcar

Premium Member

to chuckcar
Very few reasonable people build their life plans around the cost of internet.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: They're going to drive the people back to Hong Kong

you must have not seen what people think here when their bill goes up $2. its all down hill from there. BBR posters do nothing but live on the Internet and want it DIRT cheap because that's what their life calls for.
sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH

sonicmerlin

Member

Re: They're going to drive the people back to Hong Kong

said by hottboiinnc4:

you must have not seen what people think here when their bill goes up $2. its all down hill from there. BBR posters do nothing but live on the Internet and want it DIRT cheap because that's what their life calls for.

Do you ever get tired of being a corporate shill?

How do you get off defending Shaw's price gouging practices? When have they EVER justified their prices? How does EVERY OTHER DEVELOPED COUNTRY offer uncapped services? How is it that Shaw has to DECREASE their caps and increase their overages? What the devil is wrong with you?
arthur5005
join:2006-03-06
Canada

arthur5005 to EUS

Member

to EUS
Uh.. I do. I have dual citizenship, grew up and lived in Canada all my life. I'm a software engineer and I'm thinking of moving to the states. In fact anyone in the content creation industry (artists) or the tech related industries would strongly considering their prospects else where.
GAMEFUEL
join:2011-01-05

GAMEFUEL to EUS

Member

to EUS
said by EUS:

Very few reasonable people build their life plans around the cost of internet.

A lot of people actually rely on the internet for their business to function properly and prosperously. I don't see a difference between outsourcing and someone moving because a new policy is going to cost them to much. The internet should be treated the same as gas, electricity and water.

It costs my ISP 1-3 cents per GB I don't expect to get charged $2 a GB.

sm5w2
Premium Member
join:2004-10-13
St Thomas, ON

sm5w2

Premium Member

User portal to configure bandwidth use

If Shaw is really serious about "consulting" users, then here's a suggestion for them (although I don't live in an area where shaw operates):

Give users a portal where they can configure their internet bandwidth settings. They should have the following choices:

1) Set a cap for your daily internet use. Your monthly cap will be divided on a daily basis and when you reach XX% of your daily cap, your download speed will be reduced so that you don't exceed your cap for that day. If you select 100%, then your speed will drop to 10% of your normal speed for the duration of that day. You will not be charged for extra bandwidth usage when your speed has dropped according to this option.

2) Set a cap for monthly internet use. When you reach XX% of your monthly cap, your download speed will be reduced so that you don't exceed your cap for the month. If you select 100%, then your speed will drop to 10% of your normal speed for the duration of the month. You will not be charged for extra bandwidth usage when your speed has dropped according to this option.

3) Configure an e-mail alert when your monthly bandwidth usage reaches XX% of your monthly cap. If you wish, you can receive an e-mail alert when your monthly bandwidth reaches a preset level. Enter your e-mail address and % usage here:

And finally, Shaw should implement this policy:

"To acknowledge the reality that internet usage changes dramatically during the course of a day, we will implement a policy where we will not count bandwidth usage during certain hours of the day. This will foster the use of these periods of lower activity by giving customers an incentive to shift their usage behavior to these under-utilized periods. Currently, usage between 2 am and 8 am will not be counted towards your usage cap. We will update customers from time to time should this time-frame change."
Eldorados
join:2005-11-25

Eldorados

Member

Re: User portal to configure bandwidth use

Umm.. how about no to all of that

And how about instead of that garbage they come up with REASONABLE caps and pricing?

Aka something in the range of 200gigs and 5-10cent per gig overage charge, at the same time keeping a REASONABLE flat rate per month based on the speed tier you have chosen

If the numbers were close to this then this would never have been an issue

Then at the center of most of this UBB mess, they should not be allowed to dictate the price/caps for the 3rd party companies

unlt2011
@blackberry.net

unlt2011 to sm5w2

Anon

to sm5w2
This is my compromise to Shaw. Unlimited internet with no caps for the amount we are paying right now. Along with that, every year there should be an increase in speeds both in upload and download directions for all tiers to keep with the times.

Taxpayer subsidized infrastrucutre and continuously falling cost of hardware and transmission costs allows for this model.

If you must have caps, then 500gb-1TB of data per month from lowest to highest tiers with ever increasing caps each year to compensate for increased demand from services like Netflix, google TV and apple TV. Time to let go of last gen video delivery.

That's as far as I would compromise with them.

Their lavish party they have enjoyed should be over.

chuckcar
@kimsufi.com

chuckcar

Anon

Re: User portal to configure bandwidth use

They have a plan that allots 350 gigabytes per month. Certainly better than what Rogers offers and vastly better than anything Bell offers out east.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4 to unlt2011

Member

to unlt2011
LMAO!

Yah you keep dreaming of that. And since when is Cable subsidized? It's not a utility nor needed to live.

unltd2011
@ucalgary.ca

unltd2011

Anon

Re: User portal to configure bandwidth use

Due to your type of mentality which i consider as having no spine, and the sheer vastness of the amount of people who have no spines, telecommunication companies get away with murder on all fronts.

Also, I see you're from Ohio, infrastructure may not be subsidized in your state, however in Canada we pay large taxes for taxpayer subsidized infrastructure build-outs and maintenance.

If enough people demand what I propose they will give it to us on those terms or else eventually they will be relegated to being just a dumb pipe provider, provided people demand what they want in a unified voice.

As for your utility comment; The internet is fast becoming a utility to the majority, as for me in this age of information, access to high speed internet IS a utility. I am sure many others would agree. Your argument is so 1994.

Go back to the 80's where you belong. I think I have a rotary phone somewhere packed away in the basement for you if you like.
sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH

sonicmerlin to hottboiinnc4

Member

to hottboiinnc4
said by hottboiinnc4:

LMAO!

Yah you keep dreaming of that. And since when is Cable subsidized? It's not a utility nor needed to live.

What do you think "right of way" is if not a subsidy you moron?
Expand your moderator at work
GAMEFUEL
join:2011-01-05

2 edits

GAMEFUEL to hottboiinnc4

Member

to hottboiinnc4
said by hottboiinnc4:

LMAO!

Yah you keep dreaming of that. And since when is Cable subsidized? It's not a utility nor needed to live.

Australia, Japan, France, UK, USA, South Korea... Countries that subsidize internet, I found those in under 5 minuets. I'm sure there are a lot more but your ignorance on the subject is clearly highlighted here. Do you think that the postal service is needed to live? I guess or how else would the government justifies subsidizing mail?

Maybe if you understood that the internet was a valuable resource, it might help you get perspective. But you seem like you are living in the past and are not aware the world has changed around you. The future is progressive if you can't keep up get of the track don't stand around asking everyone to slow down.
sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH

sonicmerlin to sm5w2

Member

to sm5w2
said by sm5w2:

If Shaw is really serious about "consulting" users, then here's a suggestion for them (although I don't live in an area where shaw operates):

Give users a portal where they can configure their internet bandwidth settings. They should have the following choices:

1) Set a cap for your daily internet use. Your monthly cap will be divided on a daily basis and when you reach XX% of your daily cap, your download speed will be reduced so that you don't exceed your cap for that day. If you select 100%, then your speed will drop to 10% of your normal speed for the duration of that day. You will not be charged for extra bandwidth usage when your speed has dropped according to this option.

2) Set a cap for monthly internet use. When you reach XX% of your monthly cap, your download speed will be reduced so that you don't exceed your cap for the month. If you select 100%, then your speed will drop to 10% of your normal speed for the duration of the month. You will not be charged for extra bandwidth usage when your speed has dropped according to this option.

3) Configure an e-mail alert when your monthly bandwidth usage reaches XX% of your monthly cap. If you wish, you can receive an e-mail alert when your monthly bandwidth reaches a preset level. Enter your e-mail address and % usage here:

And finally, Shaw should implement this policy:

"To acknowledge the reality that internet usage changes dramatically during the course of a day, we will implement a policy where we will not count bandwidth usage during certain hours of the day. This will foster the use of these periods of lower activity by giving customers an incentive to shift their usage behavior to these under-utilized periods. Currently, usage between 2 am and 8 am will not be counted towards your usage cap. We will update customers from time to time should this time-frame change."

This is stupid. Do you have ANY evidence Shaw is experiencing congestion or actually needs caps (WHICH DO NOTHING TO ADDRESS CONGESTION)???

Any evidence, anywhere?
GAMEFUEL
join:2011-01-05

GAMEFUEL

Member

Re: User portal to configure bandwidth use

This was the reason Shaw said it wanted to use UBB was because of congestion. He was simply giving and alternative option if Shaw really wanted to address congestion and was not simply making a money grab.

Why are you asking him to provide evidence you should be asking Shaw as that is their argument.
bt
join:2009-02-26
canada

bt

Member

Non-mandated

Let's also remember that Shaw - unlike most companies who have currently put their UBB pricing on hold - was not mandated to be put it in place.

Shaw was going to be charging UBB of their own free will, with no sudden change in costs being shoved down their throats to drive it.
j0ly
join:2007-03-22
Calgary, AB

j0ly

Member

Re: Non-mandated

I dont know about that, 3web (CyberSurf, CIA) resells Shaw's internet, which is not really known to much. So in order for them to charge CIA customers, they need to charge their own.
»www.cia.com/?wicket:book ··· ductPage
bt
join:2009-02-26
canada

bt

Member

Re: Non-mandated

True - but there is still nobody at Shaw's door saying "you have to pay us more now".

grabeck
join:2003-07-17
Calgary, AB

grabeck

Member

Don't put us all in the same boat

My issue with their UBB reasons is it really is targeted at ONE segment of the market...

the NetFlix market.

When they talk about increased demand they are really talking about the increased video quality/size of on-line movie traffic that hurts their VoD bottom line. However, they are screwing everyone else with this mindset and I find it encouraging that they are going to "listen" to the masses on this.

Personally, I have High Speed in the house for our family of 3. 60GB/mon. for 3 computers, 2 Laptops, XBox...etc. We use on avg. 40GB per month... HOWEVER, our family are on-line gamers.... so, some months we have...

- Game beta's
- WoW content patches
- Xbox patches

So their could be months (like this one thanks to the Rift beta) that we will go over 60gb.

Not sure why I should be charge for this content as it doesn't effect Shaw's bottom line at all.

If Netflix(or similar) is the issue for Shaw. WORK with Netflix to keep Shaw's bandwith under control.

ie. I Netflix package, Shaw users recieve 5 free movies per month, after that they are $5 per movie...

Or since the technology is there, simply segment Netflix traffic into a different account monitor and charge a per gigabit price for that traffic that is reasonable (10-20cents/GB), and let the user decide to stay with Shaw or go elsewhere.
jjeffeory
jjeffeory
join:2002-12-04
Bloomington, IN

jjeffeory

Member

Re: Don't put us all in the same boat

They shouldn't be charging UBB for any of this. At least that's been my argument for several years running now.

b3hr
@shawcable.net

b3hr to grabeck

Anon

to grabeck
Receive 5 movies free then each movie is $5? Anti Net Neutrality much?

While we're at it why not have
unlimited facebook for $5
unlimited google searches for $3
unlimited youtube for $20
unlimited shaw on demand and globaltv.com free
unlimited steam $20 month
unlimited xbox live $10 month

singling out webpages and services is the death of the internet. Do you see what UBB is the beginning too. You make people fear using the internet, like long distance was when we were kids. Then you start controlling content by allowing certain traffic to certain sites.

We need higher caps to prevent this from happening.
Charging transport for a service that the customer is already paying to receive is nonsense and a bad idea
GAMEFUEL
join:2011-01-05

GAMEFUEL to grabeck

Member

to grabeck
It is against the law to do this. Under the current agreement of "Net Neutrality" you can't do this filtering internet usage so that certain services are restricted while others get priority is against the law.

If this became legal imagine how detrimental it could be to innovation. A company like Google could simply pay an ISP to make sure there services run faster than ever competitors. This would stifle the freedom of the internet.

It's a good idea for your one specific scenario but would allow ISP's access to pandoras box... and we just all know there going to open it if there's money to be made and nothing to stop them.

Corehhi
join:2002-01-28
Bluffton, SC

Corehhi

Member

Re-education programs won't work, LOL

Are these guys serious???? "What the problem here is we just have to talk our customers into paying more. They just don't seem to understand that paying more is in their interest."

I know my ISP is advertising 10 meg and 20 meg tiers to make the most out of your internet experience. They show streaming movies and all that. Don't know how these guys keep a straight face advertising fast speeds but you can't use them except for email and web surfing. LOL>
GAMEFUEL
join:2011-01-05

GAMEFUEL

Member

Re: Re-education programs won't work, LOL

This is a very good point and I hope lots of people are aware of this.

A lot of people do not understand how the internet works. If my connection speed is 100Mbps and I load a web page the average speed the webpages will load is 8Mbps. No your ISP is not lying to you your download speed is 100Mbps. But if your download speed was 10Mbps the average speed webpages would load would be 8Mbps.

Now this is why ISP's have started to focus on showing people how fast they can download and upload movies, music, game online or live stream in their commercials.

As faster speeds do not improve surfing the web, a commercial was even banned in the UK that suggested that BT's new 20Mbps allowed you to browse the internet faster than their 8Mbps service.

»www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11075066

But with things like this

"new criminal offence for "falsely claiming or creating the impression that the trader is not acting for the purposes relating to his trade, business, craft or profession, or falsely representing oneself as a consumer.""

It becomes clear the UK is far ahead of Canada.

MerinX
Crunching for Cures
Premium Member
join:2011-02-03

MerinX

Premium Member

Let the consumers choose

Which lube they can pick for the future rape....

GrandPa
@shawcable.net

GrandPa

Anon

Re: Let the consumers choose

consider following re CAPS

if I leave 2 HD-TV's running 12hrs per day... how many GB's do they utilize per month?

Should I be charged more per month than a neighbor with 1 TV on 4 hours/day?

Therefore, I consider a computer on my SHAW cable is insignificant compared to a/m TV's.

Also, if SHAW would slash my monthly plan cost at the same % they slashes my CAP...
I might be less p*ssed about their greed.

Only idea I've on hold is:-
do I change to High-Speed-Light rather than stay on High-Speed as I only use approx 11GB/month and save some $25.00 each month?

Bill Neilson
Premium Member
join:2009-07-08
Alexandria, VA

Bill Neilson

Premium Member

Got to love companies explaining rate hikes to consumers

when there is little to no additions being given.

If there are new HD channels or something, then that is what they say

If there is nothing new given, we see some of the most annoying, pathetic sayings such as "The consumer wins by this rate hike!"

Huh? Could someone please stop them and ask....how exactly?
keason
Premium Member
join:2002-05-02
Ann Arbor, MI
·Comcast Business
·T-Mobile

keason

Premium Member

Why not just hike rates?



In normal circumstances pricing is an efficient mechanism for smoothing out demand. Theoretically less frequent network upgrades should reduce costs for consumers and providers. The real problem with UBB is that new applications demand far more data than before and that consumers have little idea how much they use, and that advances in technology bring down the costs of providing bandwidth dramatically each year. If the network plan was really nearing capacity and there was no technological fix, Shaw might implement UBB between 6pm and 10pm at night.

The numbers that Bell and the CRTC were throwing around were completely distorted for younger consumers. I could see Granny using 3GB per month for the occasional email and web page. Everyone else I know uses far more than the quoted figures.

There are some other good solutions. A good example of effective variable cost pricing in the US is Comcast. For residences they have a 250GB cap. If you exceed it significantly (the exact cutoff varies by region) for 2 months per year they terminate your account and won't let you rejoin for a year. There is no 'overage' for data. If you want unlimited use, they have a business tier for about 50% more (available to everyone who will pay). Consumers don't suffer bill shock and Comcast keeps loads down on their network. Those who know that they will use new applications pay for it.

That's a pretty simple solution which doesn't alienate customers who don't want variance in their bills. I think that UBB is a wake-up call to introduce muni-fiber in your local city.

RFro
@gov.ab.ca

RFro

Anon

Re: Why not just hike rates?

I actually switched to a business account under Shaw to avoid the UBB, as they haven't planned to apply it to their business customers yet. $20/mo extra to avoid UBB? Yes please. Plus, they set my monthly fee to around $48/mo for the first year as a promotional offer... which is hilarious, as I was paying $57 for my residential service.
mbrianc2
join:2008-08-16

mbrianc2

Member

It's just greed

If network congestion was truly the issue, they would set a cap determined by congestion in your area. After you hit the cap, they would shut you off until bandwidth was available. The fact that they can provide you service at the same speed after you become a "heavy user" shows that they are not having congestion issues. They want to charge overages and make more money period. If they were in a bandwidth crisis, they would not be able to provide service to their customers.
blackswordca
join:2011-01-17
T8H0H7

blackswordca

Member

Re: It's just greed

To be honest, i cant wait for these meetings.

There should be no cap at all. Im sorry, but the ISPs dont pay for data used, they pay for available bandwidth. When an ISP buys bandwidth through the main lines, they buy, lets say, 200 Gb/s. per month. There could be 1 MB of data transferred or 5000 TB of data transferred, it doesn't change the cost at all.

Why am I paying for data caps when they aren't? I dont mind paying a bit more to pay for maintenance, expansion ect.

The problem is each in each neighborhood, they have say a 100 mbps line. They sell each house a 15 mbps line. There are 30 houses. so that works out to being 450mbps of potential usage. They purposefully oversold the available bandwidth and are using data caps to get even more money out of us.

Personally I hope they allow some foreign investment into the ISP market.. id love to see some big company like Google or Virgin come in and give the big 4 a run for their money.