Shocker: Users Now Confused By Term '4G' After ITU and carrier marketing departments butchered it Late last year, the ITU declared that Mobile WiMax and LTE weren't technically "4G," and that no major wireless carrier was technically deploying 4G networks since none were capable of speeds over 100 Mbps. Carriers almost gleefully ignored the declaration, T-Mobile arguing their HSPA+ build was the "largest 4G network," while Sprint, AT&T and Verizon also made "4G" part of marketing for their respective Mobile WiMax, HSPA+ and LTE networks. Facing pressure from carriers, the ITU then reversed course and declared that pretty much every current wireless network was 4G. So you shouldn't be too surprised to learn that a new survey has found that people are ridiculously confused about the term: The survey of 2,100 people found that 83 percent of respondents are aware of the term 4G, but of that group, 49 percent said they don’t understand what it means. But when you ask people who think they know what 4G means, you still get some confusion. While most get the idea that it generally means faster speeds, 27 percent said they thought 4G meant the iPhone 4 and 13 percent said they thought it referred to an Android device on T-Mobile. Confusion tends to happen when you take a standard and distort it to the point where it's almost completely meaningless.
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 | | Make it up as you go AT&T said at CES their HSPA+ is 4G and covered 99% already. haha! | |
|  |  ptrowskiGot Helix?Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
kudos:4 | Re: Make it up as you go At this point if others are doing it they would be foolish not to from a marketing perspective. | |
| | | zolcos
join:2010-05-19
Houghton, MI | Re: Make it up as you go said by ptrowski:At this point if others are doing it they would be foolish not to from a marketing perspective.
Marketing is the root of all evil. | |
| | | | ptrowskiGot Helix?Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
kudos:4 Reviews:
 ·VOIPo
| Re: Make it up as you go said by zolcos:said by ptrowski:At this point if others are doing it they would be foolish not to from a marketing perspective.
Marketing is the root of all evil. Mostly true. But is all other providers are calling HSPA+ 4G then AT&T might as well jump on the bandwagon. | |
| | | | |  Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
join:2002-03-03
USA
kudos:4 | Re: Make it up as you go All people really care about is - is it faster than my current wireless connection? 3G devices were faster than 2G devices; 4G is faster than 3G; and 5G(in a couple years) will be faster than 4G. What the ITU thinks about anything is totally unimportant to 99.999% of the wireless customers. 2G, 3G, 4G, etc are marketing terms and always have been. Will LTE be faster than what they have now? If yes, no one cares about terms. | |
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 ·Verizon Wireless..
 ·Comcast
| Re: Make it up as you go Is 3GPP LTE 4G... no and why people are branding it as such has boggled my mind from the beginning.
3GPP LTE Advanced meets 4G standards so technically that is 4G...
is regular LTE faster sure... I'll give that much to them... thats all they should be marketing atm... not that its 4G...
:/ | |
| | | | | | | | | Re: Make it up as you go Also the term is not binding anyways... but tbh its not much faster than what we currently have... | |
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| | | | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | Bingo! You said it best. However, I'm still kinda confused over who all these confused consumers are over 4G in the first place. Like you said, the average unsophisticated consumer will look at 4G as just the next step up from what they have now.
But, to take a survey, ask a bunch of people who don't even know what it is they are being asked about in the first place, OF COURSE there are going to be results showing people confused. I don't even have to read this survey to know that. (And quite honestly, I find surveys to simply be a method used by someone or an entity that wants to see if they can make their own interests look valid anyway) Ask an accountant what 2+2 is and they're going to ask you "what do you want it to be?" - surveys are no different. | |
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| | |  cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:5
 ·Frontier FiOS
| said by zolcos:Marketing is the root of all evil.
Capitalism (aka people making money for themselves) is the root of all evil. Marketing is just a specific technique/department within a company that tries to maximize making the most of it. | |
| | | | | Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
join:2002-03-03
USA
kudos:4 | Re: Make it up as you go said by cdru:said by zolcos:Marketing is the root of all evil.
Capitalism (aka people making money for themselves) is the root of all evil. Marketing is just a specific technique/department within a company that tries to maximize making the most of it. And your thoughts on what economic theory is the best to drive economic activity(like feeding yourself & your family, protection from elements, etc)? | |
| | | | | | cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:5 Reviews:
·Frontier FiOS
| Re: Make it up as you go said by Romney2012:And your thoughts on what economic theory is the best to drive economic activity(like feeding yourself & your family, protection from elements, etc)? I wasn't passing judgment for or against any economic theory.
Marketing can't be the root of all evil, as if you remove the monetary gain aspect that is the ultimate purpose of marketing, you have no reason for marketing itself. Therefore there is a more fundamental roots then just marketing itself.
I said capitalism because in a pure socialist society, everyone is provided for equally so there is no incentive to market your goods or services to improve your position in life.
Personally, I think women are the root of all evil. If Eve didn't eat the damn apple...  | |
| | | | | | | | | Re: Make it up as you go Take that one step further and place the blame on greed? | |
| | | | | | | | cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:5 Reviews:
·Frontier FiOS
| Re: Make it up as you go said by talz13:Take that one step further and place the blame on greed? If I'm using marketing weasel words just to get ahead and make more, but I'm struggling to be a successful business, I wouldn't classify that as being greedy. I'm just trying to make more then what I have. If I dominate the market, have no competition, wildly successful, and I'm still using weasel words or questionable marketing techniques, then it's greed. | |
| | | | | | | | | KearnstdElf WizardPremium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | Re: Make it up as you go said by cdru:said by talz13:Take that one step further and place the blame on greed? If I'm using marketing weasel words just to get ahead and make more, but I'm struggling to be a successful business, I wouldn't classify that as being greedy. I'm just trying to make more then what I have. If I dominate the market, have no competition, wildly successful, and I'm still using weasel words or questionable marketing techniques, then it's greed. and yet as more and more weasel words get used, the fine print of the actual contract gets longer. leading to more and more confusion for the customer.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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| | | | | | zolcos
join:2010-05-19
Houghton, MI | Marketing isn't limited to commercial marketing. | |
| | | | | | | | cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:5 Reviews:
·Frontier FiOS
| Re: Make it up as you go said by zolcos:Marketing isn't limited to commercial marketing. What other type of marketing is there? | |
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| | | | | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | ...because in a pure socialist society, everyone is provided for equally.. | |
| | | | | | |  rchandraStargate Universe fanPremium
join:2000-11-09
14225-2105 | In a socialist society, there is no incentive to improve your position in life, period. Why expend any effort if the society will just take care of things?
'fraid I'd have to go with capitalism isn't evil on this'n. Greed might be evil, which unfortunately may happen in a capitalist society, but the capitalism itself isn't. It's akin to accusing a gun of murder; blame for murder rests firmly in the person USING the gun, not the gun itself. Aside from that, you can argue back and forth all day on whether the presence of guns encourages murder or may acutally discourage it; likewise you can argue whether capitalism breeds greedy people or not.
OT
btw...wondered if you have ever seen the word "than." ...just curious...
/OT
...and now back to the news story...
gotta say I'm in the marketing camp on this one. I don't care what aspect changes; if it becomes better (faster, more reliable, better cell tower handoff, I don't care what), it's the next generation and gets the next number. If it walks lilke the nextgen, quacks like the nextgen, etc., it's the nextgen. The ITU may try all they want to say, "no, no...that's not X," but by popular usage, it's "X." Much as I'd like the ITU to be the victor, by popular usage, they aren't.
All one needs to do is recall the difference between bits per second and baud, and one will see. Although there are many standards out there to use (BPS, symbol rate, baud), it's the "baud" term that seems to have stuck, and only pedants and those needing to make the distinction (oh, dunno, modem engineers maybe?) will bother.
As another example, see "hacking" (which I do a lot, and it's totally legitimate) vs. "cracking."
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English is a difficult enough language to interpret correctly when its rules are followed, let alone when a writer chooses not to follow those rules.
Jeopardy! replies and randomcaps REALLY suck! | |
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| | | | | KearnstdElf WizardPremium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | said by Romney2012:said by cdru:said by zolcos:Marketing is the root of all evil.
Capitalism (aka people making money for themselves) is the root of all evil. Marketing is just a specific technique/department within a company that tries to maximize making the most of it. And your thoughts on what economic theory is the best to drive economic activity(like feeding yourself & your family, protection from elements, etc)? all three of them are great on paper(Capitolism, Socialism and Communism) but they all face a fatal flaw. Humans are by nature power hungry and greedy and those placed into power or money crave more and will step on anyone in their way to get more.
so yea in the end its all greed that causes the evils of any system of economics.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
| | | | | | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | Re: Make it up as you go What is also missing from your post, which I agree with by the way... is that any of these systems also always work very well,... 'for everyone BUT those who are in charge'.. ie: Do as I say, not as I do, which is how most of our politicians think, from reps to the president. Dictators do this as do the tops at giant corporations.
Except for capitalism, the people in charge or charged to operate society would never DREAM of, they themselves, living as others have to. | |
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| | | | | said by zolcos:said by ptrowski:At this point if others are doing it they would be foolish not to from a marketing perspective.
Marketing is the root of all evil. You got it. | |
| | | | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | Re: Make it up as you go said by carpetshark3:said by zolcos:said by ptrowski:At this point if others are doing it they would be foolish not to from a marketing perspective.
Marketing is the root of all evil. You got it. heh.. noooo, no it's not. GREED is the root of all evil. And, everyone, including you, is capable of it, and given the right opportunity, anyone, including you, would capitalize on that greed if given a chance. It's human nature. Some people are just better at narcissism than others. | |
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| | |  tiger72SexaT duorPPremium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1 | Precisely the term never had any meaning in the first place. | |
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|  GbcueAlmost P.E.Premium
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA
kudos:8
·AT&T U-Verse
| said by scott2020:AT&T said at CES their HSPA+ is 4G and covered 99% already. haha!
Even after calling T-Mobile's HSPA+ *not* 4G, they go ahead and do it anyway.
Such losers.
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My Blog 2.0 | |
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| term is meaningless the term is meaningless. what's important to understand is that just about all of the wireless broadband carriers are out there to gouge and rip you off on pricing, equipment, & terms of service. feel free to disagree. it's just my opinion (which many others share). | |
| | ptrowskiGot Helix?Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
kudos:4 | Re: term is meaningless Exactly. I don't care who your provider of choice is, that is a tactic of them all. | |
| |  jmn1207Premium
join:2000-07-19
Ashburn, VA | Agreed!
I am quite wary of any industry that spends the amount of money that they do for advertisements and marketing material, not to mention all of the lobbying and political funding they also provide. Clearly the products and service quality do not speak for themselves. The idea is simply to say it to many, and repeat it as often as possible, to get enough people to follow along.
A successful wireless carrier needs to understand politics and propaganda better than engineering and technical know-how. | |
| | | MadtownPremium
join:2008-04-26
Madera, CA | Re: term is meaningless Most people I talk to don't even know the term 3G or 4G or HSPA+ or LTE, all they know is that their cell phone calls and texts and take pictures. | |
| | | jcremin
join:2009-12-22
Siren, WI
kudos:2 | said by jmn1207:I am quite wary of any industry that spends the amount of money that they do for advertisements and marketing material, not to mention all of the lobbying and political funding they also provide. But do you realize how much they spend on towers, subsidizing phones, and the spectrum itself. Compare that to advertising and lobbying and it's a very small %.
If I had to spend billions on spectrum and billions more on towers, you bet I'd be spending a chunk on marketing to try to get more customers. | |
| | | | jmn1207Premium
join:2000-07-19
Ashburn, VA | Re: term is meaningless According to the Q3 Kantar Media report, AT&T and Verizon occupy the 2nd and 4th positions in advertising expenditures, with the telecom industry only bested by the automobile makers. It is a significant amount of money from any perspective
»www.adoperationsonline.com/2010/···of-2010/ | |
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 meskinctMad Scientist at WorkPremium
join:2002-01-07
Danbury, CT | 5G A clever marketer would jump in now with 5G. 4G is old technology. We have 5G now! Or Uber G. 5 has to be better than 4 right?
Idiots.
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Rich. My Website | |
| | | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | Re: 5G Not sure if your post in tongue in cheek or not - that's about all it is really. No marketer would "jump in now with 5G" as you stated.. that's REALLY saying the public is stupid. Every news and media outlet would jump on that and the controversy would be too great. So while it sounds good to say on a bandwagon rant, its totally too far in outer space to even think possible.
But moving on..
.. The whole 3G, 4G, 5G, Orgy terminology is just really stupid to begin with. All it means is that the wireless industry doesn't want to live in the same world (nor can they) that they wire-line sides have to. Cellular services should stay away from the whole step numbering system anyway and speak about the phone capabilities anyway. But, in cellular, they'd DARE NOT say "up to 1.5meg" because they know they couldn't.
However, phone companies don't talk about the technology behind DSL. Cable doesn't market on technology either.. they both do it based on speed, and why? .. exactly for the reason we have a topic to discuss today.. the general population doesn't care about things like EVDO Rev A, LTE, Docsis 2, ADSL+ VDSL.. they just want to know how fast will their facebook posts come in, or how long to open that youtube video, or if they submit a bid on ebay, will they be sniped?
The 3G/4G thing, to the level that the average consumer cares anyway, IS in fact a way to market the service. But, there is no way anyone could market 5G service, as you suggest, with out really damaging their reputation in a big way. | |
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| | 27 percent said they thought 4G meant the iPhone 4 Microsoft marketing department missed the boat on windows7 phones. 7g baby! | |
| | | | Re: 27 percent said they thought 4G meant the iPhone 4 7G is being tested in Bebee, Ar, and Northern La, everyone thinks its for the birds. LOL | |
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| | Meaningless 4G is a meaningless term, anyway. I mean, how do you define it? For example, if we assume that AMPS was 1G, then that makes GSM with GPRS 2G, right? OK, then what about GSM with EDGE? Would that be 3G or 2.5G? And then that would mean that WCDMA/HSDPA is what? 3G or 4G? I guess you could say it's 3G, since it uses a different modulation scheme than GSM (WCDMA, as opposed to TDMA). So, OK, if that's 3G, then what about HSPA+? Well, maybe 3.5G, since it's just an improvement on HSDPA, and that would make LTE 4G, unless you counted EDGE as 3G, WCDMA/HSDPA as 4G, HSPA+ as 5G, and then LTE as 6G.
OK, now let's look at CDMA. If we start at AMPS again as 1G, then that would make CDMA 2G. Then what about CDMA 1xRTT? Is that 2.5G or 3G? Then we have EVDO Rev. 0, then EVDO Rev. A, then on to LTE. OK, so if we use our modulation criteria for determining things, CDMA would be 2G, 1x would be 2.25G (it still uses CDMA modulation), EVDO Rev. 0 would be 2.5G, Rev. A would be 2.75G, and LTE would be 3G. Or we could classify CDMA as 2G, 1x as 3G, Rev. 0 as 4G, Rev. A as 5G, and LTE as 6G.
OK, then, so, through the use of my handy calculations in both the GSM and CDMA worlds, the only way to make everything line up is to declare LTE to be 6G. So, 6G it is. Now, where's my big fat thank you checks from the carriers? I just saved them two rounds of network upgrades to reach 6G, which could have cost billions, so the least they could do is show me a little love. | |
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| | all i care about is if it works. there is still such shoddy cell service in US.. | |
| | | I'm confused why everyone is acting confused I don't buy that consumers are any more confused over 4G than 3G, 2G or any other industry moniker.
It's geeks like us and incessent journalists who keep debating this over and over that appear confused.
Marketing 4G should be simple. Carriers need to educate consumers that 4G is theoretically faster than previous wireless data technologies. Consumers don't need to know about how 4G is more efficient or compatible with any global standards. They just want their Facebook Mobile uploads to go faster.
Agree with the ITU or not, 4G is what it is (marketing) and everyone should seriously get over it already. Not worth challenging in court or losing sleep over. | |
|  pnjunctionTeksavvy ExtremePremium
join:2008-01-24
Toronto, ON
kudos:1 | No need to be confused Marketing hype has taken over all meaning so just ignore the whole thing.
4G = whatever the company has right now since somebody else already trotted out what they have as 4G
5G = whatever they have when somebody trots out something they have as 5G
etc. | |
| | | | Re: No need to be confused I really don't care. I have an unlocked phone on TM and it doesn't use the 3G band. Voice is good, doesn't drop calls, text is good. When I do get online on TM service, it's good enough for looking up info. At home, I use my own wifi, which is fast enough.
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