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Should Entertainment Industry Pay For ISP Content Nanny Costs?
That's what is currently being debated in the UK...
by Karl Bode Thursday 04-Feb-2010 tags: business · world
The entertainment industry clearly wants ISPs to become content nannies, implementing everything from copyright file filters to kicking copyright infringers from the Internet. Given these systems are expensive to implement and support, may not work, and are being created essentially to protect the entertainment industry's outdated business models, many people (including ISPs, obviously) think the entertainment industry should pay for it. That's the debate currently going on in the UK, where the recording industry is trying to pretend that implementing all of these systems is going to be dirt cheap:

The Digital Economy Bill that is wending its glacial way through the UK parliament has produced an interesting row between the BPI (representing the interests of the major record labels) and the ISPs, telco's and mobile network operators. They are arguing over who should pay how much to fund remedial measures to clamp down on illegal file-sharing. The BPI is in a tough place since the cheaper they argue the cost will be, the more the ISPs respond by saying "well then you can pay for it." Minister Stephen Timms recently suggested the split should be 75/25 (with the BPI paying the greater amount).

As the entertainment industry starts pushing ISPs here in the States harder on these issues, that same question is going to flare up here as well. While giant carriers with one leg sunk in the content industry (Comcast, AT&T) may think the cost is worth it, their investors certainly won't. Meanwhile smaller ISPs have already stated that they may not survive if asked to foot the bill. So who will pay? Probably you. One possible outcome could be the creation of a "piracy tax" levied on all broadband users, whether they violate copyrights or not. That would please Hollywood and, assuming ISPs get a small cut, ISPs and investors as well.

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NeoandGeo

join:2003-05-10
Harrison, TN

.

Yes

ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA

They absolutely should pay for it...

They want this crap so they should be responsible for footing the bill.. They ante up the money to the provider for the equipment, upkeep, and any and all other expenses associated with running the system including the additional employee's salaries.

They should be able to easily afford this once they stop all the pirating and start making back all that money they claim to be losing.

Matt
All noise, no signal.
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12

Re: They absolutely should pay for it...

said by ropeguru:

They want this crap so they should be responsible for footing the bill.. They ante up the money to the provider for the equipment, upkeep, and any and all other expenses associated with running the system including the additional employee's salaries.

They should be able to easily afford this once they stop all the pirating and start making back all that money they claim to be losing.
Slippery slope. At what point is this seen as a revenue generation source to the ISP, which the content owners can utilize to influence policy?

I would vote no.

ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA

Re: They absolutely should pay for it...

So you think the ISP, therefore the customer whether pirating or not, should foot the bill for these bastards?? I disagree completely with this.

Actually, it should never pass to begin with, but that is not the topic here..

Matt
All noise, no signal.
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12

Re: They absolutely should pay for it...

said by ropeguru:

So you think the ISP, therefore the customer whether pirating or not, should foot the bill for these bastards?? I disagree completely with this.
Yes, I do.

ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA

Re: They absolutely should pay for it...

said by Matt:

said by ropeguru:

So you think the ISP, therefore the customer whether pirating or not, should foot the bill for these bastards?? I disagree completely with this.
Yes, I do.
Then you can pay my share and everyone else's that does not pirate. I pay through the nose enough for everyone else's free lunch and I am sick of it..

Matt
All noise, no signal.
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12

Re: They absolutely should pay for it...

said by ropeguru:

said by Matt:

said by ropeguru:

So you think the ISP, therefore the customer whether pirating or not, should foot the bill for these bastards?? I disagree completely with this.
Yes, I do.
Then you can pay my share and everyone else's that does not pirate. I pay through the nose enough for everyone else's free lunch and I am sick of it..
That might create an infinite loop, since I don't pirate content.

The last thing you should want is the RIAA/MPAA to have a financial relationship with your ISP, even if you have to pay an unfee each month to keep it that way. So I would urge you to write your representatives in congress and oppose implementing any sort of system in the first place.

ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA

Re: They absolutely should pay for it...

said by Matt:

So I would urge you to write your representatives in congress and oppose implementing any sort of system in the first place.
Now that I will completely agree with...

S_engineer
Premium
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL

1 edit

Re: They absolutely should pay for it...

The Entertainment Industry needs to tax the entertainers themselves if they want the "protection". Think of this as an insurance policy. To have the ordinary consumer pay this is ludicrous. However, the growing model of ISPs pushing content ( for advertising revenues) will grey the area enough to where the regulators will capitulate to the Industry. Its really sad!
--
BF69~~~Please stop suffocating gerbils!

Alkyne

@ontario.net
You could have parliament introduce a media levy on recorded content, with a crown corporation to manage the distribution of funds. Then the media lobby has no direct influence on the ISPs.

If you don't get how this would work, consider that something like that is already in place -- originally demanded by the RIAA and MPAA type groups. The copyright media levy that exists on recordable media in most countries works that way.

Considering that only private lobby organizations representing private corporations benefit from introducing this invasion of privacy, it's unreasonable for the public purse to carry the burden. It has no benefit to the country at all.
Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
ISPs should be allowed to charge the RIAA/MPAA a research fee though when they want the name of who owns an IP address unless there is a judge signed court order from a court local to where the suspect lives.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports
cobo6

join:2002-02-18
Willingboro, NJ
said by ropeguru:

They want this crap so they should be responsible for footing the bill.. They ante up the money to the provider for the equipment, upkeep, and any and all other expenses associated with running the system including the additional employee's salaries.

They should be able to easily afford this once they stop all the pirating and start making back all that money they claim to be losing.
I agree with your statement and the record companies should pay if they want to add content filters.
gorehound

join:2009-06-19
Portland, ME
They want it and they should pay the full price of it as well.
and further more they should pay the additional price of us the consumers doing everything we can to not have to buy any of their corporate fiilms or music new.We should all just buy new INDIES and buy used corporates so we can hurt them like they will deserve for this type of krap they want the world to go thru.

cpsycho

join:2008-06-03
HarperLand

2 edits

Internet tax is fine but....

Im working on a proposal for this exact thing. I would hate to see any kind of booting users for anyone.

The ACTA negotiations need to take another turn on implementing an internet tax a small one like 3%. Plus a blank media tax. Hard drives, cd/dvd/bray, mp3 players and flash drives.

The tax would be collected and put into a global fund.

Artists would be paid on the proportions of the downloads they command. It would be based on hash files and one download per year from a single IP then it starts over again, that way the system cant be cheated very much.

This way even an indy artist could actually stay indy if they wanted.

I was already asked to submit this idea after meeting with my minister of parliament. He liked this idea alot(he is a conservative, capitalist and a member if the seated government).

Maybe if enough of us propose this idea it might be the one that moves forward in the acta.

Edit: This fund would include software designers and movie makers as well.

ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA

Re: Internet tax is fine but....

Screw a tax... Are you going to separate out on what I am using that blank media for? If not, then I refuse to pay a tax that goes into a fund to pay someone that has nothing to do with what I am using the media for or the tax is for. Since I never download pirated music, why should I have to pay.

Typical thinking coming from up north...

cpsycho

join:2008-06-03
HarperLand

1 edit

Re: Internet tax is fine but....

But you would rather pay alot more, and I do mean alot more for internet?

Also are you willing to pay for a copyright lawyer to review your website and check to see if it has any infringing code or images or ideas?

ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA

Re: Internet tax is fine but....

said by cpsycho:

But you would rather pay alot more, and I do mean alot more for internet?
I should not have to pay more for anything... They have yet to PROVE that they are actually losing money due to pirating, much less be able to substantiate the numbers they are throwing out. ISP's being nannies to the big mega crooks shouldn't happen to begin with. So this shouldn't even need to be discussed about who is paying for what.

cpsycho

join:2008-06-03
HarperLand

1 edit

Re: Internet tax is fine but....

Problem with that is, you little statement is not going to stop the ACTA. I would also like to say that your statement is totally correct.

But the way the US government acts with its lobby org's. It looks like a new global treaty will be signed.

IF the ACTA is approved if there is not a forum shift in its thinking you will be paying more for that then my idea.

prsd

@ameritech.net
You pay a tax for schools, whether you ever attended schools or have kids that go to schools. You pay tax to build roads, whether or not you drive. An individual citizen pays taxes for alot of things that they can never take advantage of. I'm not saying it's right, but it's the whole Death & Taxes thing.

The idea of a tax is not so bad if it gets to the right people, content creators.

Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA

Re: Internet tax is fine but....

First off, those are taxes that the government levies to pay for government services, not fees to pay a private industry group.

Secondly, whether or not you use those services, you have access to them and you may gain a benefit from the societal benefit they grant. For example, you might not have kids in school, but what if you someday decide to have kids? Or what if you sell your house? Areas with good schools tend to have higher home values. As for the roads, you don't drive, but what if there's an emergency. Wouldn't you want the police/firemen/ambulance to get there smoothly and not have to go 10mph across broken roads?

Show me how I benefit (assuming I don't pirate) by paying a Pirate Tax. (Without saying "you could pirate all you wanted" because you know the RIAA/MPAA wouldn't allow that to happen.)
--
-Jason Levine
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Xioden

join:2008-06-10
Monticello, NY
said by prsd :

You pay a tax for schools, whether you ever attended schools or have kids that go to schools. You pay tax to build roads, whether or not you drive. An individual citizen pays taxes for alot of things that they can never take advantage of. I'm not saying it's right, but it's the whole Death & Taxes thing.

The idea of a tax is not so bad if it gets to the right people, content creators.
There is a difference between things that the general public benefit from, and things that a select few (Pirates) benefit from.

The public as a whole would not be too thrilled if all the roads couldn't be driven on above 5mph without completely ripping apart the bottom of their cars. People who don't drive wouldn't be to thrilled when suddenly the price of goods skyrockets because transport has suddenly become much more difficult.

The public as a whole would not benefit by having education limited to only those who can afford it.

The public as a whole would not benefit IN ANY WAY by having a tax going to the RIAA. And frankly, nothing would ever come along that put money in the content creators pockets. Aside from the fact that there would be no money for the RIAA in doing so, the RIAA usually holds rights to whatever artists create, so they're the one's legally entitled to any profits made of of the material the tax is supposed to be recouping lost money for!

disconnected

@snet.net

Re: Internet tax is fine but....

You folks are forgetting that government and taxation is NOT the only way to fund infrastructure. Tax is the lazy way out. Think and innovate better, non-violent ways to fund infrastructure.
zipjay

join:2003-03-11
South Williamson, KY
Roads, Schools, etc. are necessities. Downloading music and movies are not.

Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA
I think the USA's current system works well enough. By that I mean: Content owner finds infringing content, sends DMCA letter, site takes content down unless site owner sends counter letter. If site owner sends counter letter, the matter is between the content owner and the site owner and the courts. Yes, it can be abused, so maybe it needs tweaking, but replacement by a "piracy tax" is not the way to go.
--
-Jason Levine
Support a children's charity. Buy a calendar and/or a photo book. Shooting For A Cause

ReformCRTC
Support Your Independent ISP

join:2004-03-07
Canada
The alternative is to pressure governments NOT to sign on to ACTA. The reason it's being kept secret is obvious.

Then the content industry can go mind it's own business and stay out of influencing ISPs.

ISPs can be a dumb pipe. Period.

Overtkill
Premium
join:2005-09-21
Magna, UT

Re: Internet tax is fine but....

Ditto!

cpsycho

join:2008-06-03
HarperLand

1 edit
said by ropeguru:

Screw a tax... Are you going to separate out on what I am using that blank media for?
Thats fine as well, I also have another idea that would cover you.

You would get an exemption card from your ISP for blank media. You would not be taxed on your net connection.

But in turn you would only be allowed to view websites that are highly regulated. You would not be allowed to host content and not allowed to make your voice heard on the net(unless you pay a lawyer to make sure you are not infringing anyone). If the ACTA happens then this will be the out come anyway.

ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA

Re: Internet tax is fine but....

said by cpsycho:

said by ropeguru:

Screw a tax... Are you going to separate out on what I am using that blank media for?
Thats fine as well, I also have another idea that would cover you.

You would get an exemption card from your ISP for blank media. You would not be taxed on your net connection.

But in turn you would only be allowed to view websites that are highly regulated. You would not be allowed to host content and not allowed to make your voice heard on the net(unless you pay a lawyer to make sure you are not infringing anyone). If the ACTA happens then this will be the out come anyway.
You must work in government a LOT. You are really trying to turn all this into nothing but a total fuster cluck!!

cpsycho

join:2008-06-03
HarperLand

Re: Internet tax is fine but....

No, I dont work in the government at all.

But if you have researched the ACTA as much as I have, three strikes will be the norm everywhere. Also there is a lot more that is gonna happen that most internet lovers will not like.

Personally I would pay for a tax to keep the internet the way it is. The little I would have to pay is nothing compared to the wealth of information and the freedoms of the internet. Just remember any website you visit could have infringed material on it

If ideas are not brought to the ACTA table, the internet will be toast and become TV land number 2.

digitalfreak
Premium
join:2005-12-09
Blacklick, OH

Re: Internet tax is fine but....

Sounds more like extortion to me.

cpsycho

join:2008-06-03
HarperLand

Re: Internet tax is fine but....

Not really, we would be able to download all we want then. Trust me you think I would propose a deal thats one sided?

ReformCRTC
Support Your Independent ISP

join:2004-03-07
Canada

Re: Internet tax is fine but....

"Trust me I'm from the government..." No, I'm not going to trust you. You have to earn that trust.

Yikes you're beginning to drift a bit.

The blank media levy we have in Canada is not working. All it is is a glorified bank account whereby creators are seeing precious little distributed funds.

ReformCRTC
Support Your Independent ISP

join:2004-03-07
Canada
Then ACTA must never be allowed to happen, and it does get snuck in, then pressure must be applied to unratify.

Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA
Since you're from Canada, I won't get into how that would be a major 1st Amendment violation. Instead, I'll ask how they would stop me. How would my ISP keep me from opening a web hosting account (not with them) and uploading content? How would they stop me from e-mailing, twittering, posting to Facebook, etc? If I couldn't send data out to web pages, it would render the Web unusable. In other words, your proposal would mean a user could either pay the piracy tax (regardless of whether they were going to pirate or not) or get an unusable Internet connection. Not a very good choice and still doesn't address why a user should pay a piracy tax for backing up his/her own data.
--
-Jason Levine
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crazyk4952
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united state
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Explain to me how this internet "tax" would be fair to those that do not pirate?

You want to put a tax on hard drives? Are you insane? So that the music industry can prop up their failing business model instead of using a business model that the consumers actually want?

Keep your BS taxes in Canada please....

cpsycho

join:2008-06-03
HarperLand

Re: Internet tax is fine but....

said by crazyk4952:

Explain to me how this internet "tax" would be fair to those that do not pirate?

You want to put a tax on hard drives? Are you insane? So that the music industry can prop up their failing business model instead of using a business model that the consumers actually want?

Keep your BS taxes in Canada please....
If the music industry has no artists they dont collect money from the fund. They could very well die off still.
vintagewino

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Grimsby, ON
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Re: Internet tax is fine but....

Another f*****g tax!!

The medical profession uses blank CD media by the 10's of thousands; hard drives are replaced daily due to them going bad. Not as much as one single item mentioned is EVER used for the "entertainment industry", but they have to pay the "entertainment levy" on media as well as the rest of us. Terabytes of data is generated annually from the x-rays, scans, and whatever imaging device you have.

Now you want to put a tax on replacement parts as well as internet connections for what - to subsidize the entertainment industry AGAIN????

Well Cpsycho, good luck when your local medical clinic closes due to the fact that operating costs have exceeded allowable billing from the exams. OHIP only pays so much for as a facility fee for a given exam, and that's it. No more. Oh, and hospitals work on global budgets, so to subsidize your desire, another couple of health care workers will have to be laid off. Oh, and please don't complain about the additional wait times, as people like you are the cause of it. That's some of the collateral damage your beloved additional taxes will help create.

A lot of people are getting wages cut, pricing going up, more taxes being piled on. My friend, up a bit more, and my high speed internet connection will be history. That will go for quite a number of other folks. And the recording industry wants MORE and MORE and MORE ... for what? The crap dribble that's called "music" or "movies"? I'll retire to bedlam!

But you see, the ***IAA' just don't get this. They've got their heads stuck back in the 1950's.

By the way, out cassettes, CD's have all had a media tax attached to them. The CD tax went up last year. That tax went into general revenues. The artist got 0.01% of S.F.A. of the monies that were collected in their names.

Please take that tax idea and put it where the sun doesn't shine.

bear73
Metnav... Fly The Unfriendly Skies
Premium
join:2001-06-09
Grand Forks Afb, ND

Re: Internet tax is fine but....

HERE HERE!!

I second your sentiments

cpsycho

join:2008-06-03
HarperLand
My friend this is what I hope for, input. Hospitals/clinics and government agencies could be exempt keeping other costs the same.

tshirt
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said by cpsycho:

The ACTA negotiations need to take another turn on implementing an internet tax a small one like 3%. Plus a blank media tax. Hard drives, cd/dvd/bray, mp3 players and flash drives.


What a terrible idea! (oh you're canadian, that explains it )
Why should everyone pay for those who break the law?
And the tax/cost wouldn't be higher for those using/abusing the most.
When will people learn to pay for what THEY use?
Just because you can steal, doesn't mean you should.

cpsycho

join:2008-06-03
HarperLand

2 edits

Re: Internet tax is fine but....

Im fine with the status quo. But we know thats not going to happen.

Edit:

In Canada there are different copyright rules. I operate in the gray. I only download/stream movies im interested in buying. If I like I buy, if I dont like it never finishes streaming. I never stream screeners, that is wrong. I go to the theater around twice a month. So for me I am not breaking any laws and I am fine with the tax.

ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA

Re: Internet tax is fine but....

said by cpsycho:

Im fine with the status quo. But we know thats not going to happen.

Edit:

In Canada there are different copyright rules. I operate in the gray. I only download/stream movies im interested in buying. If I like I buy, if I dont like it never finishes streaming. I never stream screeners, that is wrong. I go to the theater around twice a month. So for me I am not breaking any laws and I am fine with the tax.
Then keep your tax and all your ideas in Canada. Down here we are tired of having to pay for everyone else.

NoRIAAMPAA

@rogers.com

Re: Internet tax is fine but....

How about you keep your RIAA/MPAA lobbyists’ out of Canada? Sounds even better to me!
chronoss2009
Premium
join:2008-09-23
kudos:2

Re: Internet tax is fine but....

said by NoRIAAMPAA :

How about you keep your RIAA/MPAA lobbyists’ out of Canada? Sounds even better to me!
i second that
how about we start turfing all americans out of the country too. WHY should we give our hospitality to a peopel that stole softwood lumber money, havent paid any musicians in canada ( 6$ billion lawsuit) and think they can have all our oil, and who call a counterfeiting bill national security , and hide the contents in an undemocratic fashion
ACTA ACTA ACTA
NO NO NO
NO TO TAXES
make it a life sentence for accepting a bribe form anyone who has an interest that does not reside in canada in fact lets make it treason like it should be and hang the suckers.

DaveDude
No Fear

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New Jersey
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No taxes , sorry can the glass, and dish industry , put a tax on water and detergent because they arent making enough money. NO.

Can a mall put a tax on a independent stores, because there mall wont fill.

No.

Should the 'entertainment' industry tax , internet providers , because they have a failed business model

No.

The answer isnt always a tax, look at education, has it ever improved.

No.
--
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FBGuy
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Re: Internet tax is fine but....

exactly!

there is no such thing as "too big to fail". all that a "piracy tax" would do is keep failing businesses alive.

let them fail. if they can't make it, screw them.
--
sbcglobal.net speedtest result 11/11/09 - 5256kbps

Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA
Where you say this fund would include software designers and movie makers also... that's a big area where fees like this fail. Where do you stop adding content owners and thus raising the fees to properly fill the fund coffers? Would book owners be included from books being shared online (scanned or cracked eBooks)? What about website authors and people copying their website? Will the fees rise and rise to cover every edge case until we double our ISP payments just to pay the "potential content piracy fee"?
--
-Jason Levine
Support a children's charity. Buy a calendar and/or a photo book. Shooting For A Cause

bear73
Metnav... Fly The Unfriendly Skies
Premium
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Grand Forks Afb, ND
I know here in the US we already pay a tax/premium on blank media that is identified as Audio CDs. it is a carryover from the blank casssette tapes. it was started by the RIAA to "combat" the 'sneaker-net' pirates that would copy friends cassettes for their own use.

I am against any internet tax. they want a 1% on blank media, fine. no different than what they have now. They Already Have It. At least now they'd have to come clean that they've been getting billions of $$ for decades for blank media sold that most people didnt even know about.
--
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Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
Yeah wise move there. Why don't we implement a 7-eleven and Kohl's and Old Navy tax as well to help pay for any shoplifting that occurs in those establishments as well.

As a matter of fact why don't we implement a tax for every business out there to help collect for them any loses they may potentially face for any reason that may be the result of a potential consumer or not?

How about the government starts serving it's people instead of serving it's businesses and major campaign donors?

The government should NEVER collect fees or $ from tax payers FOR any industry/company for any reason. It is completely out of the scope of what they are there to do. The UK even attempting to do this is out right stupidity and you participating in that speaks the same of you.

Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA

Re: Internet tax is fine but....

said by Skippy25:

As a matter of fact why don't we implement a tax for every business out there to help collect for them any loses they may potentially face for any reason that may be the result of a potential consumer or not?
Great idea! A "bad review" tax. If you have a bad experience at a place and tell all your friends, the store will lose sales. They've got to make up that money somehow! It's only fair (for the bad stores).
--
-Jason Levine
Support a children's charity. Buy a calendar and/or a photo book. Shooting For A Cause

asdfdfdfdfdf

@opera-mini.net
and I'm a little frustrated with Karl using the word tax to describe collective licensing.

cpsycho, Are we talking about simply assessing a tax on something like blank media or are we talking about a collective licensing arrangement where, in exchange for a monthly fee tied to your net connection, p2p activity would be legal and licensed activity?

These are two drastically different things.

I also take issue with Karl suggesting that the such a collective license would please Hollywood. In fact the content industries don't seem to like the idea at all and have been extremely resistant, that's why it isn't getting anywhere. People like Jim Griffin have been trying to persuade the record companies for a long time, without much success it seems. Hollywood doesn't seem to be any more receptive.
This is an important fact because many people assume that collective licensing is some conspiracy, by the content industries, against the public and, therefore, discard the idea out of hand.
Nesis

join:2009-06-12
Apollo Beach, FL

3 edits

If they want it so bad they should pay for it

If they are going to attempt to impose their will on another company and make them create a virtual police department then they should have to pay for eveything it will take to police their content.

If a virtual police department does get created at any company every person who monitors this traffic should have to go to lawschool (a real one not a made up corporate substitute) and be well versed in each countries laws regarding copywrited content, so I guess they should pay for lawschool for these employees as well.

Even if the RIAA and MPAA does pay for all of this they will still have a hard time proving beyond a reasonable doubt that suspect (A) was the one who indeed downloaded licensed material unlawfully (although the RIAA and MPAA have never been reasonable). I still dread the day the RIAA and MPAA get this kind of power over the internet.

Like Matt above commented. The last thing we really need is the RIAA/MPAA and your ISP to have any kind of financial relationship. If the RIAA/MPAA have to pay for this you can bet they will impose some sort of fee on the ISP for the service which the ISP will pass on to its customers. If we have any real say in what our government does than we will never let this happen (IF we have any real say).

Romney2012
Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe in
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USA
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Re: If they want it so bad they should pay for it

said by Nesis:

If a virtual police department does get created at any company every person who monitors this traffic should have to go to lawschool (a real one not a made up corporate substitute)
The real police enforce thousands of criminal laws all over the country. Police officers do NOT go to law school in order to perform their duties. Why would some copyright enforcement worker in an ISP have to go to law school in order to enforce only 1 set of laws(copyright infringement). It is an unrealistic and totally unneeded demand.
Nesis

join:2009-06-12
Apollo Beach, FL

1 edit

Re: If they want it so bad they should pay for it

With all the talk about the RIAA trying to be judge, jury and executioner I think lawschool is appropriate.

Take my comment however you want though.

bear73
Metnav... Fly The Unfriendly Skies
Premium
join:2001-06-09
Grand Forks Afb, ND
HOWEVER, the police only apprehend you as a suspect. it is the judge/lawyers that find you guilty or innocent after due justice. With RIAA wanting to act as all-in-one, then they most certainly should have real legal training. AND they should have to fund an impartial appeals process (like paying court costs when we appeal to the courts for false punishments)
--
If ya gotta go, Go with a SMILE!
»www.thereligionofpeace.com/

NETTII

join:2010-01-31

taxes

Dont we have better things to do with taxes? Like helping the middle class and supporting small business. People come first, then Hollywood old decaying business model.

jester121
Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL
Reviews:
·voip.ms

ISPs already pay under DMCA

The nasty-gram letters that ISPs send to customers who are accused of infringement is already a significant expense for smaller ISPs -- searching logs to match IP addresses, generating letters, postage, and some form of compliance tracking.

Sure, there's a certain amount of "cost of doing business" justification, but it's hardly surprising that small ISPs feel justified in kicking repeat offenders off their networks. They operate on razor thin margins and the expense of sending one letter means that customer is a loss for the month.
k1ll3rdr4g0n

join:2005-03-19
Homer Glen, IL

We don't learn from our own history...

I really think that everyone in the entertainment industry should just be taken out back and shot; they are too stupid to be human.

We had Napster. Napster was shut down. Kazaa came along, that was shut down. The WinMX, and that was also shutdown. Fast forward through a few other P2P networks and we have bittorrent.
The next logical step is to use encryption. Now, you won't even have a clue what a person is downloading or uploading because it would all be encrypted using RSA. And although a supercomputer may be able to decrypt a message in a meaningful amount of time, try decrypting 700MB worth of data (granted if you know the key then decryption is fairly fast).

Get a clue entertainment industry. Whatever you implement, people will figure out a way around the system. DVDs are a perfect example, you tried to silence the deCSS project but yet it just blew up in your face. And now Blueray protection is starting to come apart.

The entertainment industry needs to compete with piracy, not fight it. And they are complaining they are losing millions to piracy? I think only a fraction they are losing to piracy the rest is in lawyer fees and government bribery to make sure they can implement their useless systems.
chronoss2009
Premium
join:2008-09-23
kudos:2

why ask this question?

should be NO cause they aren't going ot be allowed to do this crap.
IF YOU people resign to allowing this question your idiots the lot of ya
Nesis

join:2009-06-12
Apollo Beach, FL

1 edit

Re: why ask this question?

Its already in parliament in the UK. The question has already been posed on behalf of those in the UK.

GlobalMind
Domino Dude, POWER Systems Guy
Premium
join:2001-10-29
Hollywood, FL

We're actually asking that question?

Sure they should be paying for it. They're both businesses. The entertainment industry isn't a law enforcement agency, as much as they'd like to be with their FBI like "RIAA" jackets they use in raids. ISPs aren't law enforcement either.

You want them to monitor for their content, you can pay them to do so.

Sure they'll make the argument ISPs already benefit from the "stolen" content, but it's a weak argument which should be quashed.

You want another business to babysit your materials, you can go pay them to do it. Or pay off enough Congresscritters to force them into doing it for free by law, which is of course what *AA prefer to do.
--
TheGlobalMind.com / Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go? / Trust the instinct to the end, though you can render no reason. - Ralph Waldo Emerson / Free market capitalism is the best path to prosperity.
scooper

join:2000-07-11
Youngsville, NC
kudos:2

If the **AA's think they need - they should pay for it

No if's, and's or but's.

And they better expect that they should be expected to provide legally defensible proof in a court of law - not "We said so"....
vintagewino

join:2003-07-22
Grimsby, ON
kudos:2
Reviews:
·magicjack.com
·TekSavvy DSL

Re: If the **AA's think they need - they should pay for it

Couldn't agree more.

They should also pay a fee to the ISP for their interference to the ISP' employee, as they will certainly be interfering with that person in the execution of his normal daily duties.

Since they are going through someone else's premises (the ISP), court orders and search warrants would also be required.

Since we have those pesky things called Privacy laws and PIPEDA, what happens when those rules are broken in search of the "criminal"? There's a helluva lot of collateral damage occurring here.

Makes me wonder what our forefathers gave their lives up for in the wars against losses of our freedoms. Now the entertainment industry is doing exactly the same as those rouge nations to us.

the ***IAA's want to rewrite a section of the constitutions/charters/acts to say "The Entertainment Industry reserves the right to invade the privacy, accuse, try and execute a punishment on any citizen for whatever crime we wish to impose on him without a fair hearing, all in the name of our greed and profits as we deem fit".

The Deities help us all!!
mexicali100

join:2010-01-04
Schenectady, NY

They can pay for next years mouse trap too.

Entertainment industry must be held responsible for the nanny technology because pirating media will inevitably become a game of cat and mouse. Who's going to pay for nanny tech 2.0 then 3.0 etc? Besides, watching video without the hassles of paying for it is the genie that's just not going back in to the bottle. Will people go back to paying $20 a disc if the entertainment industry can succeed with nanny tech? I doubt it - it's more likely the content vacuum will be filled with a meteoric rise in youTube, Hulu and a new genre of made-for-internet video. - as far as the music side goes - forget it, it's over - load up the trucks and book the tour, because concert tickets are your new payday.

your nut tax

@verizon.net

noway will i pay a tax

well as soon as i see a tax for this bull i'm killing the internet in this house that is one tax i will not pay .

nixie21
Premium
join:2004-08-19
Harrington Park, NJ

Re: noway will i pay a tax

Lets say they put a tax of 3% on our internet....

Does this mean we can now download anything and everything?? If I am paying a tax for something, then I want to do it...I would pay 3% to get all the music, tv and movies I want...

Then the RIAA and MPAA will complain the tax is not high enough...then what?

Xioden

join:2008-06-10
Monticello, NY

Re: noway will i pay a tax

said by nixie21:

Lets say they put a tax of 3% on our internet....

Does this mean we can now download anything and everything?? If I am paying a tax for something, then I want to do it...I would pay 3% to get all the music, tv and movies I want...

Then the RIAA and MPAA will complain the tax is not high enough...then what?
Of course not! They want to have their cake and to eat it too! Not only will you pay for stuff you aren't downloading, but if you were to download they'll keep up their current tactics of trying to sue everyone (read: scare people into settling for a few thousand)!

GlobalMind
Domino Dude, POWER Systems Guy
Premium
join:2001-10-29
Hollywood, FL
said by nixie21:

Lets say they put a tax of 3% on our internet....

Does this mean we can now download anything and everything?? If I am paying a tax for something, then I want to do it...I would pay 3% to get all the music, tv and movies I want...

Then the RIAA and MPAA will complain the tax is not high enough...then what?
An argument that's been discussed many times before. I think it's a great devil's advocate argument IMHO.

If you're taxing me for pirate content then well..I am paying for it, no? OH wait, I guess that's the same as saying I am paying for law enforcement so it means I can break the law.

But then again, copyright infringement is just that...it isn't theft no matter how many times they say it is.

Rest assured, if big media succeeds in getting ISPs to eat the cost, they'll just pass it on to consumers anyway.
--
TheGlobalMind.com / Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go? / Trust the instinct to the end, though you can render no reason. - Ralph Waldo Emerson / Free market capitalism is the best path to prosperity.
jkeelsnc

join:2008-08-22
Greensboro, NC

ISP's pay for File Nanny Monitoring

A year ago when an article was posted on this website about this very issue I was already saying this. If the Record Labels and Film Studios want the ISP's to be a traffic cop for copyright violations then the RIAA and MPAA should have to pay for it like any other service that you BUY from the ISP. These "filters" and other monitoring techniques will cost money. If the ISP's do not charge the RIAA and MPAA for these costs then they will increase their rates to charge US the users to do it.

NO! NO! NO! I won't stand for it. It is yet another reason while I will not upgrade my speed with AT&T right now aside from the threat of increased rates soon. As long as AT&T thinks that they can pull things like this while charging me more money for less service I will continue to keep my internet service at the slowest and least expensive service they offer. Since there is little competition in the ISP space where I live it is either Time Warner or AT&T. At least AT&T has the least expensive service. Slow yes but very reliable. Still I won't even consider upgrading my service PERIOD unless they offer faster tiers for the same money AND refuse to provide these monitoring services to the RIAA and MPAA at my expense. They can just sit in the mud and cry about profits for all I care. And cower in fear to their investors.
jb50

join:2010-02-03
Houston, TX

Re: ISP's pay for File Nanny Monitoring

It doesn't really matter who ends up claiming responsibility for this, it will be the consumer who pays for it in the end, with higher costs. The only way these charges won't get passed down to us is if this crap doesn't get passed in the first place. Period!
firedrakes

join:2009-01-29
Arcadia, FL

hmm

so basically they want the laws to become a Communism

wow...

saris

@qtm.net

Screw the tax!

They should have NO dealings with the ISPs whatsoever. And to the guy that says the tax is ok, move to Russia, or China, I am sure you would like it there. Getting this passed at all destroys our system. Let the RIAA and its counterparts fall apart, it is the cycle of life.

We need to start a petition to congress and stop this crap. Even convince grandma this is the wrong thing to do.

clickwir

join:2001-06-21
Dickson City, PA

Wrong stance...

No. The entertainment industry should NOT pay for nanny costs, because no ISP should be required to monitor data in any way.

There shouldn't be any nanny.

Call me a tin foil hat guy, but no industry should have any access to my packets. Ever. Period. End of story.

No filtering. No prioritization. No blocking. ISP's should give me a connection to the internet, nothing more, nothing less. I don't even want their email service.

jaa
Premium,MVM
join:2000-06-13
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
·Vonage

How about BPI pays 150%?

How about they pay 150% of the cost of implementation. Aren't the ISPs entitled to make a profit? How many companies do work "at cost"?
--
NOTHING justifies terrorism. We don't negotiate with terrorists. Those that support terrorists are terrorists.
TheMG
Premium
join:2007-09-04
Canada
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

"dirt cheap"?

ROFL... if you can call MILLIONS of dollars worth of equipment and man-hours by each ISP to implement and maintain the system... cheap?

If asked to foot the bill, most ISPs will probably pass the expense along to the consumer.

No thanks. If the entertainment industry wants to implement such a system, that's fine by me, but PAY FOR IT YOURSELF!!!

ISPs and consumers should NOT have to pay to protect the interests of the entertainment industry.
chronoss2009
Premium
join:2008-09-23
kudos:2

i hereby declare :95 years plus my life for WORKERIGHT

IF actors and musicians want 50 year copyright why cant i that made almost every steel door and frame ( from a monopoly company ) not be entitled to a residual every time you open or use one of MY DOORS. ITS NOT YOUR DOOR AFTER ALL YOUR JUST RENTING IT FORM NOW ON, and we need to apply this to every job. THIS way we can unlimit copy/worker right and everyone will do nothing and we all can jsut sit there having everything freely

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