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 | | | Re: Fail Big time. So who got fired this weekend?
P.S. "The cloud" term is dumb. | |
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| | | | Re: Fail said by 45071419:Big time. So who got fired this weekend? P.S. "The cloud" term is dumb. I'm sure everyone was canned after having faced the wrath of Paris Hilton. | |
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| | | | | Re: Fail said by CurGeorge8:said by 45071419:Big time. So who got fired this weekend? P.S. "The cloud" term is dumb. I'm sure everyone was canned after having faced the wrath of Paris Hilton. Paris went to BlackBerry ages ago. But the joke is quite comedy.
IT's mighty funny though that this type of thing happens after Microsoft bought Danger. Prior to that, Danger would be down, but rarely if ever was data lost. | |
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| | | Kdee
join:2005-08-26
Etobicoke, ON | I think you mean Perez Hilton. Apparently he's pretty pissed. | |
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| |  ReformCRTCSupport Your Independent ISP
join:2004-03-07
Canada | I agree cloud is dumb. Like their head's in a Fog...I don't deal in fogs, I deal in backing up data to physical media. | |
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| | | | If they actually used "the cloud" - or any secondary data storage system - they would have backups. This has nothing to do with "the cloud", and everything to do with foolishly depending on a SAN with no backups. | |
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|  ThrowDemsOutIf you can't convince 'em, confuse 'emPremium
join:2002-03-03
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:4 | Servers should be BACKED UP daily and weekly & monthly backups should be held offsite. | |
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| |  milnoc
join:2001-03-05
H3B
kudos:1 | Re: Fail What's the best way to back up thousands of terabytes (or petabytes) of data? A second system maybe? | |
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| | | glinc
join:2009-04-07
New York, NY | Re: Fail exactly, they should have all hdd's set up with raid-1 | |
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| | | | | | Re: Fail said by glinc:exactly, they should have all hdd's set up with raid-1 I've seen a RAID 1 controller puke and take both drives out. Or even worse, corruption on 1 drive immediately gets replicated to the other.
And, yes, I've seen even RAID 5 arrays go tits-up.
Of course people need to realize that even with tape backups, a full system restore of lots and lots of TB pretty much never happens. Where I work we have many, many (90 maybe) TB of data. It has been calculated that a full database restore from tape would take almost a month. I forget if that takes into account the validation work or not. Needless to say we have a redundant system somewhere else.
However, I wonder where it was said it was a SAN - the articles I've saw said "server"....
Working in IT for as long as I have, I've seen it all. Most likely what happened this time was there was:
1) No $$ for that spare SAN.
2) The risk was supposed to be so low as to not cause an issue.
My bet is on #2 - I've seen way too much of those types of things cause issues. Including work on 1/2 of a fully redundant SAN take the whole thing down where the vendor is still scratching their heads years later. | |
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| | | | | bjbrock
join:2002-10-28
Mcalester, OK | Re: Fail Properly configured RAID1 uses 2 controllers. | |
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| | | | |  tmh
@verizon.net | said by itguy05:And, yes, I've seen even RAID 5 arrays go tits-up. We had a 16 bay Promise VTrak die after a power surge (yes, it was on a UPS). All but one drive went south, so even RAID 5 was useless.
We did have backups fortunately. | |
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| | | | | | even better would be to have several different sites all doing the same thing. and then have backups of those. | |
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| | |  MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | said by milnoc:What's the best way to back up thousands of terabytes (or petabytes) of data? A second system maybe? It's a SAN that failed, apparently one that was being upgraded for Microsoft by Hitachi. So the better question would be, why were live customers accessing a SAN that was being upgraded and why did the upgrade nullify the redundancy?
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"What is conservatism? Is it not adherence to the old and tried, against the new and untried?" - Abraham Lincoln | |
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| | | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | Re: Fail said by Matt:It's a SAN that failed, apparently one that was being upgraded for Microsoft by Hitachi. So the better question would be, why were live customers accessing a SAN that was being upgraded and why did the upgrade nullify the redundancy? Because the blond sales agent from Hitachi said they solution can do it, and the boss ordered the IT minions to do it, the blond sales agent promised it to him. | |
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| | | | |  powerhogStinkin' up the jointPremium
join:2000-12-14
Owasso, OK | Re: Fail LOL- so true!
I worked at a company where one of the vendor reps was a hot blonde woman. Needless to say, the datacenter quickly filled with her company's servers even though they were, by far, the most prone to failure of all the systems we had. | |
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| | | | dsless
join:2001-05-16
Pittsburgh, PA | Ugh Hitachi!  | |
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| | |  lolwhatYou're getting warmerPremium
join:2001-06-11
PonziWorld
 ·Callcentric
| Anything. Anything at all. Microsoft isn't nicknamed M$ for nothing; they have gobs of money, and they could've used it to do something for a backup.
--
The Greater Depression: Coming soon to a country near you!
F*** the Republicrats. | |
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| | | ReformCRTCSupport Your Independent ISP
join:2004-03-07
Canada | PETabytes? Sounds kinky... | |
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| | | | | | Re: Fail its petabytes. your thinking of pedobytes  | |
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| | | | |  james
join:2001-02-26
CWCville USA | Re: Fail said by John McClane:its petabytes. your thinking of pedobytes Why don't you have a seat right there?
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said by Metatron2008:But people who download thousands of movies and games.... Yes, they are as bad as any murderer | |
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| | | | | | | | Re: Fail you forgot this
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| | | | | Re: Fail said by tiger72:I'm sure heads will roll at Microsoft for this. And deservedly so. They'll have cost Microsoft and T-Mobile $millions in damages. At least T-Mobile can have Google to fall back on.  | |
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| | | | | said by tiger72:From what I read, the loss of personal data was due to a system upgrade. For some reason, Microsoft/Danger did not do a data backup before making the big upgrade. In fact, they apparently hadn't done ANY data backups EVER?! I guess "Change Management" to them means "Let's upgrade and start over from scratch". | |
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| | | | | said by tiger72:I'm sure heads will roll at Microsoft for this. And deservedly so. They'll have cost Microsoft and T-Mobile $millions in damages. I'm trying to figure out how exactly. The users are all under contract, so they are stuck with the service no matter what. And I guarantee you there is something in the TOS stating they aren't responsible for data loss. | |
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| | | |  tiger72SexaT duorPPremium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1
 ·T-Mobile US
 ·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: Fail said by Camelot One:said by tiger72:I'm sure heads will roll at Microsoft for this. And deservedly so. They'll have cost Microsoft and T-Mobile $millions in damages. I'm trying to figure out how exactly. The users are all under contract, so they are stuck with the service no matter what. And I guarantee you there is something in the TOS stating they aren't responsible for data loss. TMO has already given customers a free month of service - that in itself is an extremely expensive move. Not to mention the likely class-action suit that will no doubt be brought forth...
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"What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning."
-United States Secretary of Defense (1961-1968) Robert S. McNamara | |
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| | | | tiger72SexaT duorPPremium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1 Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: Fail said by r81984:said by tiger72:They'll have cost Microsoft and T-Mobile $millions in damages. Damages for what? Did they guarantee storage of data? It doesn't matter. If a class-action suit is brought forward, TMO and Microsoft would want to settle early and quickly to get it all out of the news. They try to build their images on "reliability", and the longer this is in the news, the more likely they'll lose future customers. A settlement (regardless of what the actual contract states) would get it out of the news - but at a price.
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"What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning."
-United States Secretary of Defense (1961-1968) Robert S. McNamara | |
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| | | |  ptrowskiGot Helix?Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
kudos:4
·VOIPo
·Choice One Commu..
| said by r81984:said by tiger72:They'll have cost Microsoft and T-Mobile $millions in damages. Damages for what? Did they guarantee storage of data? Very good point.
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"So, Lone Starr, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb."
Have you been touched by his noodly appendage? »www.venganza.org | |
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| | | | | | | Re: Fail for one, i don't know, but I don't think that T-mobile does more than provide voice and data service. they do not control the information on the devices and therefore how its backed up.. or am i wrong? | |
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| | | | bjbrock
join:2002-10-28
Mcalester, OK | It's called merchantability. They sold a working service and there is minimum expected performance on their part. Plus there are some things you can't "TOS" your way out of.
There will be a law suit, or a settlement. | |
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| | | | |  r81984Fair and BalancedPremium
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX
 ·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T DSL Service
·row44
| Re: Fail said by bjbrock:It's called merchantability. They sold a working service and there is minimum expected performance on their part. Plus there are some things you can't "TOS" your way out of. There will be a law suit, or a settlement. With it comes to technology the minimum expected performance is you know to back up your data yourself. I thought everyone knew that.
I am sorry, but lawsuit for losing data that no one guaranteed is pointless. This is a case that Tmobile knows it will win so if they settle out of court Tmobile will only pay what it would lose paying to win the court case to save time. Once divided up people will get like a $1 and lawyers will get most of the money.
Also it will be hard to claim damages over lost phone numbers and emails.
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Democrats are not Socialists any more than Republicans are. | |
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| | | | | | | | Re: Fail They made claims in advertising and contract documents for usability and they were expected hold to minimum network and management practices. Those expected standards include backups. When they get to court they will have to explain to the jury why they didn't follow backup standards that every single enterprise grade company in they country follows. Regardless of what the TOS says you can't TOS your way out of negligence. Not following the minimum enterprise standards for backups is negligent. Negligent behavior gets you sued, the deeper the pockets the more lawsuits it will generate. Consumer anger is going to be very high, signups to the class action suits will be very significant.
The Class action suits are likely being written up as I type this and will be filed the day they restore service so the lawsuits will have the correct number of days. T-mobile will settle and they will execute liablity terms in their contract with Danger, likely causing Danger to be responsible for everything but a small "deducible". This isn't speculative, it's practically guaranteed.
Heads should roll at Danger management for not following standards in enterprise IT management that the rest of the world uses. Backups are critical, expected and negligent if not provided. | |
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| | | | | | tiger72SexaT duorPPremium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1 Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
·AT&T DSL Service
| said by r81984:I am sorry, but lawsuit for losing data that no one guaranteed is pointless. This is a case that Tmobile knows it will win so if they settle out of court Tmobile will only pay what it would lose paying to win the court case to save time. Once divided up people will get like a $1 and lawyers will get most of the money. Also it will be hard to claim damages over lost phone numbers and emails. It doesn't matter if TMO wins the case if they take a massive PR hit to their much vaunted customer service. That's, really, the point of the class action suit. Not to win large damage awards, but to inflict PR damage to corporations...
--
"What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning."
-United States Secretary of Defense (1961-1968) Robert S. McNamara | |
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| | | | | |  SteveI know your IP addressConsultant
join:2001-03-10
Yorba Linda, CA
kudos:5 | said by r81984: With it comes to technology the minimum expected performance is you know to back up your data yourself. I thought everyone knew that. There wasn't a way for users to back it up themselves | |
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| | | | Kdee
join:2005-08-26
Etobicoke, ON | T-Mobile apparently kept telling users that they didn't have to backup their data because it was all kept securely in a data center.
I guess that worked out well. | |
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|  N3OGHCertified GLG-20Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:1
·Verizon FiOS
| All aboard the fail boat! | |
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| | ReformCRTCSupport Your Independent ISP
join:2004-03-07
Canada | Re: Fail Epic Fail x100 | |
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| | Looks like Microsoft has some explaining to do... ....or could this be a way to get people off of Sidekicks and into Windows Mobile phones.
Let the conspiracy theories fly.  | |
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|  en102Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Re: Looks like Microsoft has some explaining to do... Windows as a server OS is painful enough... do we really want to force WinMo handsets as well ?
I do use WinMo handsets - and it works, but has to be rebooted from time to time when it freezes up. | |
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| | ReformCRTCSupport Your Independent ISP
join:2004-03-07
Canada | Re: Looks like Microsoft has some explaining to do... BSOD on a phone. Now that's a useless fail. | |
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AVonGaussPremium,MVM
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL | Clouds... A nice cloudy day, then it rains, the clouds dissipate and then there are clear skies without a cloud in sight... My point, if there was crucial information of yours in the system that you did not have stored in an alternative location, who's really at fault here? | |
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See 6 replies to this post |
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| | awful something like this WOULD NOT HAPPEN on verizon or at&t. tmobile sucks which is why they are far behind all carriers. | |
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| | | Re: awful said by jake9234 :
tmobile sucks which is why they are far behind all carriers.
You sir have committed a fallacy. A statement that makes absolutely no sense. T-mobile is a very big Euro based company that one day decided to start a network in the us. They recently have put a great deal of money to beef up their US resources to very soon rival ATT to the tune of a new 3g market every few days. If you read the article, they don't run the sidekick data store. Danger aka Microsoft does. I don't have t-mobile because their coverage is horrible by me (like att) but give em' a break, they're working on it and showing true promise. | |
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| | | said by jake9234 :
something like this WOULD NOT HAPPEN on verizon or at&t. tmobile sucks which is why they are far behind all carriers.
More BS from the anonymous poster.
Guess you forgot the ATT debacle when they couldn't add, change or remove service to their mobile systems because their IT department did an untested upgrade that screwed everything up.
 | |
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| | | umm.. please do not post here anymore. what you said is complete BS. T-Mobile has nothing to do with the outage. they just happen to be the wireless carrier for voice and data service. they do not control how the devices worked. | |
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| | End of contract... So i guess this would be a good enough reason to be able to exit yuor long term contract because the carrier FAILED it's ToS of the contract.
1) A Week+ of no service
2) Loss of data
3) "Are you smarter then a 5th grader" level of data backup schedule in place means they were negligent with customers property.
I'm sure a class action suit can get the attorney's very rich on this slam dunk case as well as get people their money back for the time+money they spent on the service since the contract began.
I've never liked T-Mobile, tried them for one year in 2005 and i realized while they were cheaper then AT&T... i was just getting what i paid for (and often times less) | |
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See 6 replies to this post |
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| | Maybe It is Part of the Plan Danger transition to Mobile Explorer version 48.9. (Maybe by then it will be decent.) | |
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| SteveI know your IP addressConsultant
join:2001-03-10
Yorba Linda, CA
kudos:5 | Re: This is why backup should be done yourself Not if there's no way to back up this particular data yourself | |
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sedu
join:2002-01-10
Freeland, MD | Danger Will Robinson, Danger What more can you say. | |
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| | Can we say Mobile Make over This gives a how new meaning to the latest ad campaign. | |
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 MaggsPremium
join:2002-11-29
Woodside, NY | It's Microsoft Give them something good, and they'll fuck it up. Hell they had UNIX programmers code Windows to appease to morons. | |
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 GbcueAlmost P.E.Premium
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA
kudos:8 | Android Users What's the best way to backup an android device?
Does Google back everything up? | |
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|  sapoCruising Down Memory LanePremium
join:2002-09-16
Sacramento, CA
kudos:1 | Re: Android Users Android interfaces with Google directly for Gmail, Calendar, and Contacts. For the G1 specifically a microsd card is required and all stuff like photos, music, etc are kept on there. That is all.
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DO DO | |
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| | GbcueAlmost P.E.Premium
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA
kudos:8 Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
| Re: Android Users said by sapo:Android interfaces with Google directly for Gmail, Calendar, and Contacts. For the G1 specifically a microsd card is required and all stuff like photos, music, etc are kept on there. That is all. I know, but how can we be sure Google is backing all the contacts, gmail, the calendar?
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My BLOG!
Black Friday Ads | |
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| | | |
 toddbs98
join:2000-07-08
North Little Rock, AR | What do you expect.. This story doesn't surprise me at all since it took 13 calls totaling 6 hours on the phone over a period of 2 months for T-Mobile to get my voice mail to work. If however the information on your sidekick was that vital to users they should have been responsible enough to back it up.
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Patriots always speak of dying for their country never killing for it. Bertrand Russell
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| | Fuck Damn it I lost everything. All my contacts, all my texts, all my pictures, all my... everything. Its gone and I was never offered a free month of service. WTF is this? And to the person who said it was stupid to trust Microsoft to our stuff, Microsoft only very recently acquired Danger who ran the servers before that. This only makes me want to find the people over there that come up with these stupid ideas and put them to an entire life of torture. Everything on my phone is GONE. | |
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| | | Re: Fuck pro tip: its just a phone | |
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| | Glad I don't have T-Mobile! Wonder what happens to t-mobile stock after this? | |
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| | | Re: Glad I don't have T-Mobile! t-mobile had nothing to do with this. | |
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| | . lol all these comments about raid 1.
glinc: lol this had to be a SAN, and no san is raid1 ... we are talking many many terabytes here.
bjbrock: raid 1 with 2 controllers .. lol what? Is that a joke?
God, looks like one of their many san failed .. and they did not have a proper backup strategy.
There is no way a server could handle that volume of data.
Also there is no indication that it has anything to do with the servers ... so sure it's MS's fault .. but necessarily due to their software. Sounds like hardware to me.
As for backing up huge amounts of data, they have san replication and robotic tape libraries for that. | |
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Reviews:
 ·Comcast
| Not Surprising Seriously guys? You find this surprising? T-mobiles systems have been breached by hackers more than once. Sidekick's data have been hacked more than once. If you didn't have at-leased your contacts backed up somewhere, you're an idiot. Lesson Learned eh? | |
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| | | Re: Not Surprising wow another one.
t-mobile had nothing to do with this. | |
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| | Reviews:
·Comcast
| Re: Not Surprising Oh noes, It's not T-mobiles fault. Oh wait, who hired what once was Danger and now is Microsoft to handle their Sidekicks customers data? Who didn't care to oversee any operations or put forth any rules to protect consumer data? Umhmm. There is enough blame to spread around. | |
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| | | | | Re: Not Surprising are you kidding me? they don't tell the ppl that are in charge of the sidekick backend how to do their job. they have a wireless network to run. that would be something that AT&T would try to do. | |
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 MemphisPCGuySenior Systems EngineerPremium
join:2004-05-09
Memphis, TN
·Comcast
2 edits | I don't want my data backed up Why didn't they just spin "privacy" and give rebate/gift. I wouldn't want my information backed up and hope I could opt out if it was.
Edit: for context, I'm on Verizon. They back it up a few times I'm sure.
--
Onsite Computer Support in Memphis
»www.memphispcguy.com | |
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dsless
join:2001-05-16
Pittsburgh, PA | Big Iron Should have purchased a Mainframe!  Microsoft and data center sounds like a contradiction in terms. | |
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All GONE!
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