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ADSL2+ distance limitationsIt all looks nice on paper but when it comes to the real world only a very small percentage of their customers will get anywhere close to a 30 meg connection. Though the better uploads with Annex M looks nice. | |
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Duramax08To The Moon Premium Member join:2008-08-03 San Antonio, TX |
Copper is everywhereMight as well milk it. Well atleast in rural areas. | |
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Re: Copper is everywheresaid by Duramax08:Might as well milk it. Well atleast in rural areas. I wish they would just deploy it in rural area's. | |
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| | Duramax08To The Moon Premium Member join:2008-08-03 San Antonio, TX |
Duramax08
Premium Member
2009-Jul-31 11:02 pm
Re: Copper is everywhereTrue. Hopefully this broadband stimulus will help out. | |
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unoriginal Premium Member join:2000-07-12 San Diego, CA |
Who handles the copper line repairs?Sonic may be using their own backend network but still need AT&T copper for the service. Who handles repairs for the lines since Sonic is offering essentially dry line dsl over the phone lines? | |
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Re: Who handles the copper line repairs?I suppose Sonic pays AT&T enough for those dry lines that AT&T will repair them when something goes wrong. | |
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Re: Who handles the copper line repairs?until ATT decides to pull out the copper and do FTTH or toss in their VARDs to reduce the loops. Then Sonic is screwed. | |
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Re: Who handles the copper line repairs?At which point SOnic will probably resell AT&T VDSL/FTTH. Though realistically AT&T will rely on VDSL for another 3-5 years. Also, I may have underestimated Sonic's position...I think they're actually a facilities-based CLEC, so their ADSL2+ will be sticking around for awhile.
I'm in an area where the highest-upload internet in a 100 mile radius is 3 Mbps up, so Sonic will actually have some competitive upload speeds compared to many places. | |
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Re: Who handles the copper line repairs?ATT isn't reselling SHIT on their new network. They got what they wanted with getting rid of the copper and all the resellers. That's why you can't get Dryline DSL with many small town ISPs ATT took it from them as well. The same as the new network.
T1s have tripled in areas that have gone to the FTTH systems when it was SBC in trials.
Also what happens when ATT starts doing FTTN? and all the coper starts to go? Sonic is gonna be SOL but we'll hear how ATT is the evil on getting rid of the copper because Sonic should be allowed still to lease it.
Instead of spending the money to become a CLEC they should be worried about building out their full network. Maybe FTTH in HOAs and such. | |
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Re: Who handles the copper line repairs?Says he person who isn't affected either way because Sonic is several states away...
Anyway, Sonic.net is an acual CLEC IIRC, so unless AT&T wants to get the crap regulated out of them they'll keep service available on the older DSL architecture.
Also, VDSL doesn't do POTS, so if people don't want U-Voice in a particular area then AT&T has to offer regular phone service, which happens to be from the same COs etc. that DSL runs from. | |
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Re: Who handles the copper line repairs?So just because their a CLEC doesn't matter.
VZ is pulling their copper out and guess what happens. The CLEC gets the shaft and is killed by one more customer upgrading.
You're also not affected so your comment applies to you.
Also ATT being regulated? LMAO!
the FCC bought and paid for by ATT and VZ. Also you must have not have read the memo, NEW Built out networks do NOT have to be shared with anyone else. Which MEANS: if the ILEC pulls the copper lines TOUGH SHIT for the CLECs, Look at the FTTH networks in Monroe MI where ATT built these out when it was SBC. They do not have any choices except ATT for services.
Guess what? Tough shit for the customers the FCC says. | |
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Re: Who handles the copper line repairs?That was the former FCC. Let's hope the brave new wo...erm...administration can fix things. Also, DSL around here is served by a DLEC. Too bad most of the lines are too crappy, or Verizon would have their own DSL here. | |
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Re: Who handles the copper line repairs?If the FCC changed what the previous agreed to as far as the new networks i'm sure the FCC will find themselves in court faster than what we can blink. With that FiOS and U-Verse would be shut down that millisecond. | |
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1 edit |
"greater loop lengths"quote: line-bonding is one way to grab additional bandwidth at greater loop lengths out of both ADSL2+ and VDSL.
What does this mean, if anything, regarding those currently just out of reach of sonic's DSL service. Do we now have choices other than IDSN and or 56Kx2(bonded)? Or does this just mean more bandwidth for those already under the broadband over copper ATT/Sonic line length restriction? | |
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| Rhaas Premium Member join:2005-12-19 Bernie, MO |
Rhaas
Premium Member
2009-Jul-31 2:49 pm
Re: "greater loop lengths"It wont extend the reach... much... depending on the service level. You should be able to push a 1.5M service an additional 3kft+, distance depends on the condition of the copper plant. Really it means more bandwidth available for the same given distance. This is from our testing in '07: » Bonded DSL Testing the 'black-box' mentioned in that thread are Charles Ind. Adrenalines (they were beta then and I couldn't discuss them at the time). | |
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to xan_user
In all likelihood, the distance cutoff for DSL-based services will not change. However cutomsers who previously could only get 768k due to loop length issues will now be able to get something more. Pair bonding, at its best, doubles available bandwidth. However double nothing is still nothing, unless Sonic decides to put AdrenaLine on their longer pairs (unlikely). | |
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supression of innovationA decade too late. I can do VPN bonding with linux since day one. Why has it taken 10 years and counting for an ISP to figure out how to do it? Innovation warehousing, hoarding of IP capital, patent suppression, and collusion in suppression of innovation and progression by the incumbents to avoid a profit loosing disruptive technology from affecting them or forcing them to innovate is the problem with the world now. There is so much technology and surpression of innovation in this world. Just pick up a copy of Popular Mechanics from the last 5 decades and 99% of their "future" crap has never happened. | |
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copper FTW
Anon
2009-Aug-1 8:42 pm
Re: supression of innovationWhat is VPN bonding that you speak ? I think you may be referring to bridging two physical interfaces in linux (e.g eth0 and eth1 would become br0 ) xDSL technology is a lot different then that type of setup and pair bonding is not easy or fast to deploy. | |
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Re: supression of innovation | |
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DaneJasperSonic.Net Premium Member join:2001-08-20 Santa Rosa, CA |
Answers to a few questionsTo address a couple of the questions:
We do not anticipate offering longer distance products using bonding, but bonding does allow delivery of faster service at a given distance. So, at a location where a customer might get 1.5Mbps/384kbps, with bonding they typically can obtain 3.0Mbps/768kbps.
Regarding bonding availability, CPE for ADSL2+ pair bonding have just become available in the last year or so, and the ADSL2+ bond DSLAM code is actually still in beta. We expect general release shortly. This is all quite new stuff.
-Dane | |
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Re: Answers to a few questionssaid by DaneJasper:To address a couple of the questions: We do not anticipate offering longer distance products using bonding, but bonding does allow delivery of faster service at a given distance. So, at a location where a customer might get 1.5Mbps/384kbps, with bonding they typically can obtain 3.0Mbps/768kbps. Regarding bonding availability, CPE for ADSL2+ pair bonding have just become available in the last year or so, and the ADSL2+ bond DSLAM code is actually still in beta. We expect general release shortly. This is all quite new stuff. -Dane What I don't understand is why not use line bonding to serve longer lengths, even if the speed is very low. Many of these people are desperate for anything besides ISDN or 56K. Sadly, to this day many still only have ISDN as a high speed option - which really isn't an option | |
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| | DaneJasperSonic.Net Premium Member join:2001-08-20 Santa Rosa, CA |
Re: Answers to a few questionsIn California, the maximum length you can legally drive high frequency data on is 17,500ft.
If and when reach extended ADSL2+ is ratified as a standard, that would likely become an option. But for now, as I understand it the standard is not complete, so it would not be legal.
Meanwhile, bonding could let you offer some services in areas that today no one reaches, and at 2x the speed.
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to DaneJasper
said by DaneJasper:To address a couple of the questions: We do not anticipate offering longer distance products using bonding, but bonding does allow delivery of faster service at a given distance. So, at a location where a customer might get 1.5Mbps/384kbps, with bonding they typically can obtain 3.0Mbps/768kbps. Regarding bonding availability, CPE for ADSL2+ pair bonding have just become available in the last year or so, and the ADSL2+ bond DSLAM code is actually still in beta. We expect general release shortly. This is all quite new stuff. -Dane You should talk to the boys at Teksavvy, they've been bonding for quite some time. I've been on mlppp for about a year now using their services. It's been a bumpy ride but they seem to have it all sorted now. Ian | |
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| | DaneJasperSonic.Net Premium Member join:2001-08-20 Santa Rosa, CA |
Re: Answers to a few questionssaid by Thislilfishy:said by DaneJasper:To address a couple of the questions: We do not anticipate offering longer distance products using bonding, but bonding does allow delivery of faster service at a given distance. So, at a location where a customer might get 1.5Mbps/384kbps, with bonding they typically can obtain 3.0Mbps/768kbps. Regarding bonding availability, CPE for ADSL2+ pair bonding have just become available in the last year or so, and the ADSL2+ bond DSLAM code is actually still in beta. We expect general release shortly. This is all quite new stuff. -Dane You should talk to the boys at Teksavvy, they've been bonding for quite some time. I've been on mlppp for about a year now using their services. It's been a bumpy ride but they seem to have it all sorted now. Ian We do have bonding working in the current platform, I think the issue was concurrent POTS voice and bonding on the same card. That required a card update, plus new firmware which is still beta. They might also be using a different DSLAM/MSA platform than us for bonding. -Dane | |
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to Thislilfishy
MLPPP is bonding at a different layer than ADSL2+ line bonding. They should not be confused.
Frank | |
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DSL? WTFEWhy not just spend the money on something else and skip using copper? I mean we can build WiMax systems, MMDS, wireless with Mot Canopy. But yet ISPs are still using Copper. and ADSL2+ at that. Hell even ATT and Qwest are using VDSL!
WTF! | |
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2 edits |
Then the law needs to be changed, DaneIf current California law limits distances to 17.500 feet and is obsolete and/or does not reflect what can be done with current technology then it should either be changed, or overriden by the FCC. | |
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Re: Then the law needs to be changed, DaneCalifornia is it's own country you should know that by now. And Sonic doesn't have the money to take on that law and the State.
ATT will eat them alive. if the current law is on the side of ATT. | |
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| | DaneJasperSonic.Net Premium Member join:2001-08-20 Santa Rosa, CA |
Re: Then the law needs to be changed, DaneUntil reach extended (RE-ADSL2) is ratified as an official standard, I don't think the 17,500ft distance is the real issue.
At that distance, ADSL1 and ADSL2+ are a bit slow and unreliable.
Once RE-ADSL2 is official, clearly longer loops would be useful.
-Dane | |
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How is the real-world bonded performance?What kind of real world speeds are you seeing with bonded ADSL? I don't live in Sonic.net area but one of my local ISPs is starting to advertise bonded ADSL, but none of the techs have seen it in use yet. In my own situation, I have 10mbps down, 1mbps up ADSL. My modem syncs up at about 12mbps down and 940kbps up. My speed tests show about 9.5mbps down, 850 kbps up. If I had a bonded pair would I see double that? Or are there crosstalk issues that keep bonded from being truly double? What kind of increase can a person hope to see by doubling their current DSL service with a bonded offering? I seem to be hampered with 850kbps upload due to the SNR of my single line. | |
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RATESI am thinking of disconnecting my service with AT&T because of their stupid price change. Where can I compare the price list on DSL provider in Glendale (los Angeles Area).
If the price is attractive for a single static IP I will get one otherwise dynamic is fine | |
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