Sonic.net Fought For Tor Developer's Rights Fought Secret Court Order Against Wikileaks Supporter Monday Oct 10 2011 08:57 EDT In contrast with so many other ISPs, Independent California ISP Sonic.net has fought for consumer rights wherever possible. CEO Dane Jasper recently decried how ISPs are engaged in all manner of sleazy non-transparent user tracking, ranging from clickstream sales to new "man in the middle" search traffic manipulation. The company also recently opposed new data retention laws, noting that greater storage of user data means greater security and privacy risks. Now the Wall Street Journal has obtained documents showing Sonic fought a secret court order to obtain data on Wikileaks supporter Jacob Appelbaum: quote: Sonic said it fought the government's order and lost, and was forced to turn over information. Challenging the order was "rather expensive, but we felt it was the right thing to do," said Sonic's chief executive, Dane Jasper. The government's request included the email addresses of people Mr. Appelbaum corresponded with the past two years, but not the full emails. Both Google and Sonic pressed for the right to inform Mr. Appelbaum of the secret court orders, according to people familiar with the investigation.
Appelbaum, who both supported and volunteered for Wikileaks, is a developer for the Tor project, and has not been charged with any crime. |
FFH5 Premium Member join:2002-03-03 Tavistock NJ |
FFH5
Premium Member
2011-Oct-10 9:07 am
Lost - that is a key pointThey fought an expensive battle and lost. I bet they won't fight future court orders to turn over information, especially from a FISA court. | |
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talz13
Member
2011-Oct-10 9:21 am
Re: Lost - that is a key pointIn the original monday morning articles link ("The Little ISP That Stood Up to the Government"), it also stated On Aug. 1, Sonic posted a blog post called help us protect your privacy online, which informed users of a new policy that it would retain IP address logs for just two weeks. Storing logs longer ⦠would potentially make our customers the target of invasions of privacy, the company wrote on its blog. So unless there is legislation that enforces minimum data retention, the government's next subpoena will come with a reply that simply says Sonic.net doesn't have the requested information. | |
| | | FFH5 Premium Member join:2002-03-03 Tavistock NJ |
FFH5
Premium Member
2011-Oct-10 9:44 am
Re: Lost - that is a key pointsaid by talz13:In the original monday morning articles link ("The Little ISP That Stood Up to the Government"), it also stated On Aug. 1, Sonic posted a blog post called help us protect your privacy online, which informed users of a new policy that it would retain IP address logs for just two weeks. Storing logs longer ⦠would potentially make our customers the target of invasions of privacy, the company wrote on its blog. So unless there is legislation that enforces minimum data retention, the government's next subpoena will come with a reply that simply says Sonic.net doesn't have the requested information. I believe legislation requiring just that is already being considered in Congress. | |
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| ArrayListDevOps Premium Member join:2005-03-19 Mullica Hill, NJ |
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yea. I'm LOST as to why this crap is even necessary. ISPs shouldn't have to keep these records. | |
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FFH5
Premium Member
2011-Oct-10 9:43 am
Re: Lost - that is a key pointsaid by ArrayList:yea. I'm LOST as to why this crap is even necessary. ISPs shouldn't have to keep these records. What is so hard to understand. Government forces businesses to maintain hundreds of different business records as part of their power to regulate businesses. Businesses hate maintaining all these records but courts back the government every time. | |
| | | | ArrayListDevOps Premium Member join:2005-03-19 Mullica Hill, NJ |
Re: Lost - that is a key pointthese are only necessary because someone says they are. they don't really serve any purpose. IP addresses are not valid way to identify a person. | |
| | | | | Matt3All noise, no signal. Premium Member join:2003-07-20 Jamestown, NC |
Matt3
Premium Member
2011-Oct-10 11:23 am
Re: Lost - that is a key pointsaid by ArrayList:these are only necessary because someone says they are. they don't really serve any purpose. IP addresses are not valid way to identify a person. But they can be used as pieces of a puzzle. This is the FISA court, not the RIAA/MPAA. We're in the big leagues now and well beyond civil matters, we're talking (in the eyes of the government) about national security. | |
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ArrayList
Premium Member
2011-Oct-10 11:26 am
Re: Lost - that is a key pointF*** national security. National security is over hyped more than the new iThingie. | |
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| | | CamaroQuestion everything Premium Member join:2008-04-05 Westfield, MA
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Camaro to FFH5
Premium Member
2011-Oct-10 10:12 am
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Ummm you show me where they are regulating anything that benefits us or protects us, they are only forcing this because they want the isp's to keep a nice clean record and basically doing there job for the FBI or whoever comes knocking. Our food supply they can't even keep track of with all the people getting sick and dying in this country because they can't afford more food inspectors,but be damned they always get that military budget that is like a invisible force that can never be touched.I mean I could go on forever about this but I think people get the point.Oh yea the protests that are finally coming about because people are so pissed and they can't take the shit anymore of what wall street did to this country, and for once I am proud to be a American again.
Oh yea show me where wall street kept all those meticulous records that they were regulated to keep. | |
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Re: Lost - that is a key pointsaid by Camaro:Ummm you show me where they are regulating anything that benefits us or protects us, they are only forcing this because they want the isp's to keep a nice clean record and basically doing there job for the FBI or whoever comes knocking. Our food supply they can't even keep track of with all the people getting sick and dying in this country because they can't afford more food inspectors,but be damned they always get that military budget that is like a invisible force that can never be touched.I mean I could go on forever about this but I think people get the point.Oh yea the protests that are finally coming about because people are so pissed and they can't take the shit anymore of what wall street did to this country, and for once I am proud to be a American again.
Oh yea show me where wall street kept all those meticulous records that they were regulated to keep. So true! | |
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The real losers are the American People. Liberty flushed down the drain once again. | |
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PhoenixDownFIOS is Awesome Premium Member join:2003-06-08 Fresh Meadows, NY
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The true issue is the secrecy behind the requestIt violates the very spirit of one being able to openly face their accusers in a court of law. | |
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Abuse of powerAgain a process set up to disrupt networks of foreign government spies and terrorist plots is used exclusively to violate civil liberties. | |
| | ArrayListDevOps Premium Member join:2005-03-19 Mullica Hill, NJ
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ArrayList
Premium Member
2011-Oct-10 11:27 am
Re: Abuse of poweryep. and that is what they were designed to do. there is no way to fight terrorism without destroying civil rights. I'll say it again, the terrorists have won. | |
| | | FFH5 Premium Member join:2002-03-03 Tavistock NJ |
FFH5
Premium Member
2011-Oct-10 1:21 pm
Re: Abuse of powersaid by ArrayList: there is no way to fight terrorism without destroying civil rights. So, what is your solution then? Give in to them? Let them blow things up? End democracy and replace it with Ummah? Do you even have a solution other than give up? | |
| | | | clone (banned) join:2000-12-11 Portage, IN
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clone (banned)
Member
2011-Oct-10 1:48 pm
Re: Abuse of powerEverything's black and white to you people, isn't it?
And by you people, I mean the deluded, pants-wetting, boot-licking, followers who HONESTLY believe the government's lies that there are "terrorists" around every corner, in every city, every state, and every town just waiting to blow things up.
It must be awful living that way. I live every day to the fullest, and if I get blown to smithereens then I guess it was just my time. Until then, I won't let the terrorists win by buying into all this security theater.
Grow up, and realize that you've been lied to. There is no reason to be naive anymore. This isn't about Ummah. This is about us, and the sooner all you "me-too" minions stop parroting the lie, the sooner we can actually enjoy our democracy again.
Although, I believe your screen name says it all. | |
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Re: Abuse of powersaid by clone:Everything's black and white to you people, isn't it?
And by you people, I mean the deluded, pants-wetting, boot-licking, followers who HONESTLY believe the government's lies that there are "terrorists" around every corner, in every city, every state, and every town just waiting to blow things up.
It must be awful living that way. I live every day to the fullest, and if I get blown to smithereens then I guess it was just my time. Until then, I won't let the terrorists win by buying into all this security theater.
Grow up, and realize that you've been lied to. There is no reason to be naive anymore. This isn't about Ummah. This is about us, and the sooner all you "me-too" minions stop parroting the lie, the sooner we can actually enjoy our democracy again.
Although, I believe your screen name says it all. 911 was an inside job, it was the start of the end of our freedoms. Everything they are doing they said is to "protect us" when in reality the only thing we need protecting against is the ones taking away our freedoms and rights. There are no "terrorists", the terrorists are in government and they are the globalists. | |
| | | | | FFH5 Premium Member join:2002-03-03 Tavistock NJ |
FFH5 to clone
Premium Member
2011-Oct-13 9:02 am
to clone
said by clone:Everything's black and white to you people, isn't it?
And by you people, I mean the deluded, pants-wetting, boot-licking, followers who HONESTLY believe the government's lies that there are "terrorists" around every corner, in every city, every state, and every town just waiting to blow things up.
It must be awful living that way. I live every day to the fullest, and if I get blown to smithereens then I guess it was just my time. Until then, I won't let the terrorists win by buying into all this security theater.
Grow up, and realize that you've been lied to. There is no reason to be naive anymore. This isn't about Ummah. This is about us, and the sooner all you "me-too" minions stop parroting the lie, the sooner we can actually enjoy our democracy again.
Although, I believe your screen name says it all. And I believe you don't have a clue about the effect of terror attacks. And the danger of terror plots that succeed is not the relatively few people killed and maimed. It is the damage done to financial systems and the economy that large scale successful attacks would engender. Those results affect millions and damage the country and all its people. P.S.> And your personal attacks are way off base. I'm not worried about my own physical well being. But do worry about the effects on the economy. | |
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| | | ArrayListDevOps Premium Member join:2005-03-19 Mullica Hill, NJ |
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said by FFH5:said by ArrayList: there is no way to fight terrorism without destroying civil rights. Do you even have a solution other than give up? No, I don't have any other solutions. But giving up civil liberities is not a direction we should have even considered. That is one of the things that the extremist can't stand. We had the upper hand and we fell into their trap. Al Qaeda had specific goals for 9/11 and this was one of them. This false sense of safety is a load of B.S. I'd rather have my civil liberties than trust that my failing government can protect me. Since 9/11 they haven't caught any terrorists with these laws. | |
| | | | | FFH5 Premium Member join:2002-03-03 Tavistock NJ 1 edit |
FFH5
Premium Member
2011-Oct-10 3:42 pm
Re: Abuse of powersaid by ArrayList:Since 9/11 they haven't caught any terrorists with these laws. Really? Well the facts are otherwise. » www.chron.com/news/artic ··· 5965.phpInhofe said more than 40 terrorist plots have been prevented since the Sept. 11 attacks, thanks to counterterrorism agencies created afterward like the Department of Homeland Security and the National Counterterrorism Center as well as the Patriot Act, which expanded law enforcement's ability to investigate individual's suspected of terrorist-related activities.
The foiled plots include the planned attack on Fort Dix, N.J., by a tiny cell of homegrown terrorists in 2007 and the 2002 plot to detonate a radioactive "dirty bomb" in the U.S. » www.heritage.org/researc ··· -storiesDetails on all the plots prevented are at link above, along with trials and convictions. 39 Terror PlotsFoiled
The Heritage Foundation began tracking foiled terror plots in 2007. At that point, there had been at least 19 foiled plots since 9/11.[1] Since this initial publication, Heritage has periodically published updates and refined the data to ensure that all qualifying plots were represented.[2] All data contained in the terror plots research is obtained from public information and contains no sensitive or classified information. (This paper does not include the three terror plots that were not foiled(1) the Little Rock military recruiting center shooting in 2009, (2) the Los Angeles airport ticket counter shooting in 2002, and (3) the Fort Hood shooting in 2009, where 16 people were killed.) And the danger of terror plots that succeed is not the relatively few people killed and maimed. It is the damage done to financial systems and the economy that large scale successful attacks would engender. Those results affect millions and damage the country and all its people. | |
| | | | | | ArrayListDevOps Premium Member join:2005-03-19 Mullica Hill, NJ |
Re: Abuse of powerdeath of a thousand cuts or instant death? I choose instant death.
we cannot keep defending the lies. most of the problems this country has were brought on by it's own actions. Keep trying to stop the destruction and you will only help cause it. | |
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FFH5
Premium Member
2011-Oct-11 3:06 pm
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DataRiker
Premium Member
2011-Oct-10 11:56 am
Dane JapsperDane Jasper deserves some serious kudos for this. I will send him one once I'm done with this post. | |
| calibax join:2000-12-08 Sunnyvale, CA
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calibax
Member
2011-Oct-10 12:50 pm
Dane JasperOver the years Dane Jasper has consistently shown a very high level of commitment to his users and their privacy. This isn't the first time he's spent money to stand up for users rights. I appreciate him and his company for their service and their attitude. | |
| | SeleniaGentoo Convert Premium Member join:2006-09-22 Fort Smith, AR |
Selenia
Premium Member
2011-Oct-10 2:41 pm
Re: Dane JasperI would certainly buy his service in a minute, if it was provided in MA. Even if it is, it'd be over Verizon's crappy, poorly maintained infrastructure. That infrastructure is why I use TWC service backhauled 1/4 mile from the Pittsfield line(TWC's end of service area) to my house via high grade wifi radios and antennas. | |
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