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Sony Demos First Live 4KTV Stream At NAB Conference

As we recently explored in detail ultra HD and 4K is very far from mainstream adoption thanks not only to shifting device standards (from HDR to HDCP 2.2) but because there's really just not that much content available. While Netflix and Amazon are offering some original content in UHD, and a few cable companies like Comcast offer a selection of VOD content in UHD, there's just not enough content to justify the cost of a new set (and the HDCP 2.2 compliant receiver or soundbar you'll need to pass that signal through).

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This generation of game consoles can't offer games beyond 1080p, and there's absolutely no live content available right now.

Enter UHD set makers who are desperately trying to convince the public that UHD is something consumers need now, and not in two years when standards solidify and prices drop. At the NAB conference this week in Las Vegas, Sony, Harmonic and a handful of other vendors showed off what's believed to be the first live 4K stream ever at their conference booths:

quote:
With the multiple demos at the huge National Association of Broadcasters (NAB) Show, the tech partners are seeking to show that the video industry is progressing in its quest to make UHD delivery a reality sometime soon. With retail sales of 4K TV sets starting to take off, programmers beginning to churn out UHD content and both OTT and pay-TV providers gearing up to distribute 4K fare, the equipment and software vendors are aiming to keep up by developing the advanced technology needed to support UHD delivery to homes.
Except again, there's no cable or broadcasters rushing to offer UHD. DirecTV's new satellite may allow for some 4K content this fall, but with 4K set ownership so low they're simply in no rush. Meanwhile Cable and phone pay TV providers (with the obvious exception of fiber to the home) lack the necessary bandwidth to make UHD a reality anytime soon, even with codec compression help.

To be clear UHD and 4K are definitely a real, looming standard, completely unlike the often-silly hype that was home 3D. But anybody without money to burn should still probably wait until sometime in 2016 for UHD and 4K standards to settle down and the cable TV industry to play catch up with set image fidelity.
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quisp65
join:2003-05-03
San Diego, CA

quisp65

Member

Screw 4k ...Waiting on Sony's 75 inch 1080p

If the input lag is good, I'm getting it. It's going to have android TV. So it'll be like a 75 inch tablet with my HTPC hooked up to it :-D Never been excited about smart TVs since I do HTPC but an android working alongside it, has got me excited.


Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

Karl Bode

News Guy

Re: Screw 4k ...Waiting on Sony's 75 inch 1080p

The Android implementation in the new sets is looking a LOT better than their proprietary older GUI. I may pick one of these up when prices hit sane levels next year.

rideboarder
welcome to the social
Premium Member
join:2003-07-28
Snohomish, WA

rideboarder

Premium Member

Waiting...

And here I am just waiting on getting a 1080p signal from Comcast...Why worry about 4K, when we don't even have 1080p yet?? 4K won't look any good heavily compressed either.

maartena
Elmo
Premium Member
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA

1 recommendation

maartena

Premium Member

Re: Waiting...

said by rideboarder:

And here I am just waiting on getting a 1080p signal from Comcast...Why worry about 4K, when we don't even have 1080p yet?? 4K won't look any good heavily compressed either.

There is no reason to switch broadcasting to 1080p if they can just go to 4k instead. Why invest money twice. And who knows, if they upgrade to the equipment to support 4k broadcasting, maybe that same equipment can do 1080p as an interim.

Reality is, 1080i is probably as good as it will be UNTIL 4k gets to the masses.

By the way, DirecTV does have 1080p, but only on their VoD and PPV releases.
smk11
join:2014-11-12

smk11

Member

Re: Waiting...

said by maartena:

said by rideboarder:

And here I am just waiting on getting a 1080p signal from Comcast...Why worry about 4K, when we don't even have 1080p yet?? 4K won't look any good heavily compressed either.

There is no reason to switch broadcasting to 1080p if they can just go to 4k instead. Why invest money twice. And who knows, if they upgrade to the equipment to support 4k broadcasting, maybe that same equipment can do 1080p as an interim.

Reality is, 1080i is probably as good as it will be UNTIL 4k gets to the masses.

By the way, DirecTV does have 1080p, but only on their VoD and PPV releases.

Broadcasters aren't in the business of chasing fads. 480/720p dominates the broadcast channels which is what average people watch/care about. The next broadcast spec will support higher resolutions, but no one will use it.

19Mbps MPEG 2 1080i
to
1 4K channel h.265
or
multiple 1080p/720p h.265

It's laughable to even consider 4K for broadcasting. Furthermore, ATSC may adopt LTE-B and you can forget 4K for the next decade or longer if that happens. They will chase mobile screens and low bandwidth i.e. 720p h.265.

Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium Member
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1

Anonymous_ to maartena

Premium Member

to maartena
said by maartena:

said by rideboarder:

And here I am just waiting on getting a 1080p signal from Comcast...Why worry about 4K, when we don't even have 1080p yet?? 4K won't look any good heavily compressed either.

There is no reason to switch broadcasting to 1080p if they can just go to 4k instead. Why invest money twice. And who knows, if they upgrade to the equipment to support 4k broadcasting, maybe that same equipment can do 1080p as an interim.

Reality is, 1080i is probably as good as it will be UNTIL 4k gets to the masses.

By the way, DirecTV does have 1080p, but only on their VoD and PPV releases.

TWC has 1080p boxes not sure what channels since I don't have a 1080p tv

Corehhi
join:2002-01-28
Bluffton, SC

Corehhi to rideboarder

Member

to rideboarder
said by rideboarder:

And here I am just waiting on getting a 1080p signal from Comcast...Why worry about 4K, when we don't even have 1080p yet?? 4K won't look any good heavily compressed either.

Same boat my cable company can't do 1080P so what's the point. I pull most my programing off the internet NetFlix etc. Problem there is with the kids and I watching TV I'm getting close to my speed limits, next tier up gets expensive for me. I'm sure 4K programing if avaiable will suck up a decent amount of bandwidth.

Over all I won't be upgrading till something die and 4K is pretty much the standard.

maartena
Elmo
Premium Member
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA

maartena

Premium Member

Sports

Probably the first live events we will see in 4k is going to be a big sporting event. I know that in 2014 several World Cup games were broadcasted in 4k for a very few select testing groups in Japan and the UK for testing purposes.... and that the Olympic Broadcasting Company will film/broadcast ALL Olympic events for the 2016 Summer Olympics in 4k, but it is up to the actual television broadcasters in each country to pick up the 4k broadcasts. I am pretty sure that DirecTV will launch one or two 4k channels by 2016 for these kinds of events.

I also know that the Superbowl was broadcasted to 4k for private testing only within the NFL organization, just to get a sense of what it will look like.

As far as content goes: TV studios that shoot digital have been shooting in 4k for years, there is no question that there will be content. Also, old 35mm film can be unconverted to 4k quite successfully, as there is no real resolution attached to film. Netflix already has 4k content, and Amazon is starting it as well.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

1 recommendation

Kearnstd

Premium Member

kill the new DRM

Why is it every new method of video needs a new DRM? We know DRM does not work and we know DRM only exists to cause problems and treat paying customers like criminals.. Scrap the new DRM and just let people use existing equipment with their 4k display.

aaronwt
Premium Member
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
Asus RT-AX89

aaronwt

Premium Member

Re: kill the new DRM

said by Kearnstd:

Why is it every new method of video needs a new DRM? We know DRM does not work and we know DRM only exists to cause problems and treat paying customers like criminals.. Scrap the new DRM and just let people use existing equipment with their 4k display.

That is never going to happen.

tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

tshirt to Kearnstd

Premium Member

to Kearnstd
said by Kearnstd:

We know DRM does not work....

Then why worry about this version?
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

1 recommendation

Kearnstd

Premium Member

Re: kill the new DRM

Because its flaws tend to harm those who acquire their stuff legally while not even slowing the pirates. So why bother with it? HDMI gains nothing of value from HDCP.

HereToHelp2
@charter.com

HereToHelp2

Anon

Re: kill the new DRM

said by Kearnstd:

Because its flaws tend to harm those who acquire their stuff legally while not even slowing the pirates. So why bother with it? HDMI gains nothing of value from HDCP.

Do you lock your car door or your house when you leave? why? If someone really wants to break in a piddly lock isn't going to stop them.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

1 recommendation

Kearnstd

Premium Member

Re: kill the new DRM

Last I checked the lock on my car has never impeded me from using it.
ctggzg
Premium Member
join:2005-02-11
USA

ctggzg

Premium Member

Re: kill the new DRM

The 2 seconds it takes to unlock the car is more inconvenient and intrusive than any DRM.

thedragonmas
Premium Member
join:2007-12-28
Albany, GA
Netgear R6300 v2
ARRIS SB6180

thedragonmas

Premium Member

Re: kill the new DRM

said by ctggzg:

The 2 seconds it takes to unlock the car is more inconvenient and intrusive than any DRM.

bullpucky. any time i try to play a bluray on my samsung bd player, 10 - 15 minutes in the screen goes black. why? the DRM handshake goes to crap. i have to power cycle the bd player, the receiver and the tv. i have to do this 4 - 6 times before the crap finally works right and can enjoy the movie.

not to mention the ubiquitous "hey you, dont copy this bluray you legally purchased or will fine you a boat load, oh and by the way even though you purchased this legally where not going to let you skip this freaking warning.."

if they want to make an improvement, how about descriptive audio for surround sound? every freakin bluray i own that has it only has 2 channel, wth? blind folks arent deserving of surround sound?
biochemistry
Premium Member
join:2003-05-09
92361

biochemistry

Premium Member

Re: kill the new DRM

Are you responding to the right person?

HereToHelp3
@charter.com

HereToHelp3 to Kearnstd

Anon

to Kearnstd
said by Kearnstd:

Last I checked the lock on my car has never impeded me from using it.

How are you impeded? DVDs have DRM. Just push play it works.
46436203 (banned)
join:2013-01-03

46436203 (banned) to Kearnstd

Member

to Kearnstd
Last I checked, HDCP has never impeded me from recording an HDMI signal nor has AACS ever impeded me from ripping a Blu-ray.

HDCP strippers and AnyDVD are A Thing, you know.

If a DRM can be easily removed then it might as well not even be there, you know? As far as I'm concerned, HDMI 1.4 and Blu-ray have no DRM. They are DRM-free formats.

HereToHelp3
@charter.com

HereToHelp3

Anon

Re: kill the new DRM

said by 46436203:

Last I checked, HDCP has never impeded me from recording an HDMI signal nor has AACS ever impeded me from ripping a Blu-ray.

HDCP strippers and AnyDVD are A Thing, you know.

If a DRM can be easily removed then it might as well not even be there, you know? As far as I'm concerned, HDMI 1.4 and Blu-ray have no DRM. They are DRM-free formats.

And if I can easily open a lock on your house or car you might as well not lock it.
smk11
join:2014-11-12

smk11 to Kearnstd

Member

to Kearnstd
said by Kearnstd:

Why is it every new method of video needs a new DRM? We know DRM does not work and we know DRM only exists to cause problems and treat paying customers like criminals.. Scrap the new DRM and just let people use existing equipment with their 4k display.

Don't buy media with DRM and DRM goes away. Simple as that. Hell, I stopped buying media and switched to streaming. After buying the same media over and over and over again through the years (different editions, higher resolution, etc) I chose to get off the mouse wheel.
46436203 (banned)
join:2013-01-03

46436203 (banned)

Member

Re: kill the new DRM

said by smk11:

said by Kearnstd:

Why is it every new method of video needs a new DRM? We know DRM does not work and we know DRM only exists to cause problems and treat paying customers like criminals.. Scrap the new DRM and just let people use existing equipment with their 4k display.

Don't buy media with DRM and DRM goes away. Simple as that. Hell, I stopped buying media and switched to streaming.

This... is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

"Don't like the heat? Then move somewhere where it's cooler. Hell, I stopped living in Texas and moved to Arizona."

Streaming media services are the ultimate form of DRM. The media companies are frothing at the mouth for the day everything goes digital only. Physical DRM is broken quickly and stays broken. Netflix's DRM is still unbroken.

When's the last time you ripped a 1:1 copy of a Netflix stream?

When's the last time you ripped a 1:1 copy of a Blu-ray? I'll tell you when I did. Yesterday.
smk11
join:2014-11-12

smk11

Member

Re: kill the new DRM

said by 46436203 See Profile
This... is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

"Don't like the heat? Then move somewhere where it's cooler. Hell, I stopped living in Texas and moved to Arizona."

Streaming media services are the ultimate form of DRM. The media companies are frothing at the mouth for the day everything goes digital only. Physical DRM is broken quickly and stays broken. Netflix's DRM is still unbroken.

When's the last time you ripped a 1:1 copy of a Netflix stream?

When's the last time you ripped a 1:1 copy of a Blu-ray? I'll tell you when I did. Yesterday.
[/bquote :

Streaming does have DRM, but it's easier, cheaper, no real walled garden, resolution/format always the latest, etc.

There's more things to life than the incessant need to own everything. So you do 1:1 rips because you love the content or because you can i.e. a digital hoarder? DVD, SE DVD, Bluray, SE bluray, 4K master bluray, actual 4K bluray, etc. I'm willing to bet you don't watch most of the things you rip. They sit unused like a wall of DVD's before it; sitting just in case you might want to watch it. This is coming from someone who would find still sealed DVD's in my collection. They remained sealed until I got off the hamster wheel and sold them. Streaming is better despite the DRM.

46436203 (banned)
join:2013-01-03

46436203 (banned)

Member

Re: kill the new DRM

This is irrelevant to the original conversation.

You promoted streaming as an alternative to people who didn't want a media format with DRM.

That was an incredibly stupid thing to say and judging by your attempt to steer the argument in a completely different direction you seem to be in agreement.

tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

tshirt to 46436203

Premium Member

to 46436203
said by 46436203:

When's the last time you ripped a 1:1 copy of a Netflix stream?

If you want 1:1 ,true blue ray resolution, and DRM free, you aren't going to be watching Netflix or any other legal stream.

Buying content without getting a physical copy, gives the provider TOTAL control and your online library is only yours while they exist and remain happy.

vdiv
Premium Member
join:2002-03-23
Reston, VA

vdiv

Premium Member

Money to Burn?!

The new M-series Vizio 4K SmartTVs start at $600.

Also we don't know what the video providers are doing, 4K content and transmission doesn't just happen out of the blue and is not cheap.

quetwo
That VoIP Guy
Premium Member
join:2004-09-04
East Lansing, MI

quetwo

Premium Member

Re: Money to Burn?!

They've been capturing content at 4k for a while now. All of their editing suites are setup for 4k/8k. Transmission won't really change now they are at digital -- it's not like it requires special gear or new methods to change from 720p to 4k. The only thing that has to change is the ATSC standard which only allows MPEG2 @ 19mbps at the moment. By allowing MPEG4 or H.265 into the mix, then they can start to push these newer video standards.

The biggest problem will be the end sets. If they want to do MPEG4 or H.265, the sets need to know those codecs in order to decode them. It took about 4 years (and a heavy push from the government) for there to be enough sets out there for broadcasters to even take a chance on digital with MPEG2. OTA broadcasters typically focus on laggards so getting them to upgrade their sets will be like pulling teeth.

Now for satellite and catv -- since they own the box, it is less of an issue. For CATV, they have a typical recycle time on the STBS in the field every 6 years. Satellite is every 4 years. They also have the power to dictate to customers when the box is swapped out since they own it. Typically what they will do is introduce new channels at the new codec and allow customers with new boxes to start to get those channels.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Kearnstd

Premium Member

Re: Money to Burn?!

of course comes the problem with cable companies, that UHD will not come without a new fee... Likely on top of your HD Technology Fee. So you will have an HD Technology Fee and an Ultra HD Technology Fee.

Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium Member
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1

Anonymous_ to quetwo

Premium Member

to quetwo
sorry ATSC is not moving to mpeg 4 or h.265

since there is no backwards compatibility....

Unless you invent away to do so it's not going to happen

ipv6movement
@pppoe.ca

ipv6movement

Anon

Re: Money to Burn?!

said by Anonymous_:

sorry ATSC is not moving to mpeg 4 or h.265

since there is no backwards compatibility....

Unless you invent away to do so it's not going to happen

ATSC 2 already exists and supports H.264. There are already countries using H.264 and it is a requirement. ATSC 3 will break backwards compatibility with ATSC 1 / 2 due to a new modulation technique and will use H.265 only.

It is going to happen. You'll have to buy a new tuner. It is no different than many other technological transitions we've made over time.

HereToHelp2
@charter.com

HereToHelp2

Anon

Pointless

Facts show most viewing is still via broadcast networks. They will not be doing 4K anytime soon. Hell they can't even do 1080p. How are you going to do 4K with Mpeg-2? With the FCC insisting on networks sharing channels and also demanding these channels to add subchannels how they do 4K even with ATSC 3.0 is beyond me.
46436203 (banned)
join:2013-01-03

46436203 (banned)

Member

PC gaming is the best reason for a 4K TV.

Click for full size
Who cares about linear media like television and movies? Boring.

PC gaming alone justifies having a 4K set. Just about every PC game can be rendered in 4K.

I've been playing Grand Theft Auto V in 4K for the past few days.

••••••
HiDesert
join:2008-08-17

2 edits

HiDesert

Member

OTA won't play

As it is, most of my local stations break up their bandwidth to several sub digital stations and everything is watered down to 1080i or less. Last time I had Dish/DTV/Comcast they all did the same with heavy compression. I think DTV being the worst with noticeable macroblocking on their so called HD channels. These guys won't even provide the resources to give us 1080P let alone 4K.

Although I never saw the original Voom satelite content I heard that it used to stream 1080P until dish network bought it and then they promptly watered it down.

As I understand it the HDR or high dynamic range is more important then pure 4K resolution. HDR is what looks good to the eyes and demos show it getting close to 20 20 vision. Imagine a shot in a dark room where everything is clear with little or no low light noise and a door in the background open to the outside that is brightly lit and you can still see clearly out into the street. Some of this HDR tech is really exciting and really takes things up a notch IMO.

There is a show on Twit TV where they are demoing many of these new cameras that shoot in HDR and 4K that show promise. More then I thought then a simple bump in resolution. As I said, HDR is the important factor that will make a big difference to the eyes. 3K and 3.5K with a higher HDR is what looks good.

Unless this new technology will bring in new customers for the cable/sat companies I doubt they will spend money to provide this content. However, if it catches on competition will put pressure on those that hesitate to provide 4K HDR. Manufacturers of TV's really want this to fly being they have the most to gain since TV sales are in the crapper.

Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium Member
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1

Anonymous_

Premium Member

Re: OTA won't play

tv providers prefer quantity over quality since it makes them more money
floydb1982
join:2004-08-25
Kent, WA

floydb1982

Member

No thanks I'll stick with 1080p

I'll be sticking with 1080p. The Wiiu, Xbox One, PS3, and PS4 top out at 1080p. Computer games don't exceed 1080p. 2D and 3D Blu-ray supports up to 1080p 24 frames per second. Broadcasting in HD is only 720p or 1080i. You can still buy movies on DVD witch supports 480i only. Those online video services that clam to offer 1080p uses such a low bitrate that it looks no better than a DVD.

••••