 
Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs: 
| This would seem to be a windfall for the cable co's. No more cable box inventory needed if it spreads to other manufacturers and as far as broken and defective boxes..that would be a thing of the past and would shift that responsibility to consumer owned equipment.
Sounds like a real money saver.
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The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic! | |
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SRFireside
join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: This would seem to be a windfall for said by Rick  :Sounds like a real money saver. On both sides of the process. This also means the consumer doesn't pay cable box rental fees or have to deal with another device to hook up to their entertainment systems. It's a win/win if it's done right (and nobody exploits the savings with trumped up fees). | |
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| | Smith6612
Premium
join:2008-02-01
united state | Re: This would seem to be a windfall for It also means no more possibly ugly looking box on top of your TV/in your cabinet or somewhere as well, so you'll have more space as well for other things. | |
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person9998541
@il.us
| said by SRFireside :said by Rick :Sounds like a real money saver. On both sides of the process. This also means the consumer doesn't pay cable box rental fees or have to deal with another device to hook up to their entertainment systems. It's a win/win if it's done right (and nobody exploits the savings with trumped up fees). They will not have to pay rental fees but they will have to pay massive service fees for anything that goes wrong or the cable prices will suddenly jump more than the usual 10% a year that is definitely beyond the inflation already. | |
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Jafo232
You Can't Spell Democrat Without Rat.
Premium
join:2002-10-17
Boonville, NY
| Re: This would seem to be a windfall for Could it possibly lead to at least one less remote? Oh please, that makes it worth it by leaps and bounds..
Now, if they would just make a deal with DirecTV and Dish Network!
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Custom PHP/Perl Development. Vbulletin And Wordpress Mods Too! | |
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| | | | JPL
Premium
join:2007-04-04
West Chester, PA
| Re: This would seem to be a windfall for said by Jafo232 :Could it possibly lead to at least one less remote? Oh please, that makes it worth it by leaps and bounds.. Now, if they would just make a deal with DirecTV and Dish Network! First off, there are great universal remotes out there - my Harmony 550 has allowed me to put all the rest in a drawer (for real). Second, DirecTV did try something like this a few years ago. I forget the manufacturer (RCA, maybe?) created a high end TV complete with DirecTV receiver installed. It went exactly nowhere. Third, these types of deals tend to take a long time to go through (when exactly is Comcast rolling out it's Tivo-enabled DVR around the country?) - so I wouldn't go unplugging my STBs anytime soon. Finally, unless they put harddrives in these TVs, people will still opt to have DVRs on their TVs. | |
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Qumahlin
Never Enough Time
Premium,MVM
join:2001-10-05
West Chester, PA
| Re: This would seem to be a windfall for said by JPL :said by Jafo232 :Could it possibly lead to at least one less remote? Oh please, that makes it worth it by leaps and bounds.. Now, if they would just make a deal with DirecTV and Dish Network! Third, these types of deals tend to take a long time to go through (when exactly is Comcast rolling out it's Tivo-enabled DVR around the country?) - so I wouldn't go unplugging my STBs anytime soon. Finally, unless they put harddrives in these TVs, people will still opt to have DVRs on their TVs. Actually the TiVo software has been in testing for quite some time. I wish Comcast had just decided to release a special "tivo" version box, but the reason it has taken so long is because the software had to be modified to work on the motorola hardware already in place.
You also don't need to put a harddrive in the TV. Nowadays you can spend less than 300 bucks for a 1 terabyte external drive. Hell cable boxes currently support certain external drives for DVR add-on, but the ability to use them has been disabled for the most part...which is one of the most annoying things about the cable receiver industry. Year after year they roll out receivers with tons of fancy features and ports...most of which are disabled due to fear of how thier use may enable piracy and cut into the bottom line of both the cable co's and the entertainment industry.
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Forum Posts:7500 | |
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| | | | | | JPL
Premium
join:2007-04-04
West Chester, PA
| Re: This would seem to be a windfall for said by Qumahlin :said by JPL :said by Jafo232 :Could it possibly lead to at least one less remote? Oh please, that makes it worth it by leaps and bounds.. Now, if they would just make a deal with DirecTV and Dish Network! Third, these types of deals tend to take a long time to go through (when exactly is Comcast rolling out it's Tivo-enabled DVR around the country?) - so I wouldn't go unplugging my STBs anytime soon. Finally, unless they put harddrives in these TVs, people will still opt to have DVRs on their TVs. Actually the TiVo software has been in testing for quite some time. I wish Comcast had just decided to release a special "tivo" version box, but the reason it has taken so long is because the software had to be modified to work on the motorola hardware already in place. You also don't need to put a harddrive in the TV. Nowadays you can spend less than 300 bucks for a 1 terabyte external drive. Hell cable boxes currently support certain external drives for DVR add-on, but the ability to use them has been disabled for the most part...which is one of the most annoying things about the cable receiver industry. Year after year they roll out receivers with tons of fancy features and ports...most of which are disabled due to fear of how thier use may enable piracy and cut into the bottom line of both the cable co's and the entertainment industry. Exactly my point about the Comcast/Tivo deal. How long has it been since that deal was announced - what, 3 years now? And it's still in testing? Moving at a glacial pace. My point is that these types of joint ventures are seldom quick to come to market. As for the external drive to your TV... let me see if I understand this - people want to get rid of having a DVR on the outside of their TV - a totally self-contained unit - so they'll be just fine with getting an external harddrive for their TV? I don't buy it. Plus, the TV would STILL need the DVR s/w to make all that work - just plugging in a harddrive doesn't give the TV the smarts to allow for things like setting up series to record. | |
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| | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| said by SRFireside :said by Rick :Sounds like a real money saver. On both sides of the process. This also means the consumer doesn't pay cable box rental fees or have to deal with another device to hook up to their entertainment systems. It's a win/win if it's done right (and nobody exploits the savings with trumped up fees). $4.99 outlet fee, $3.99 digital duplication fee, $1.99 digital navigator fee.
Your sets won't be free, cable companies will get same money, except now they don't have to stock, distribute, repair cable boxes. | |
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| | Corydon
Cultivant son jardin
Premium
join:2008-02-18
Denver, CO
clubs:
·Comcast
| Re: This would seem to be a windfall for You know, I hear about people having trouble with cable boxes, but my experience has been that they're pretty solid. There's not really all that much that can go wrong with a plain digital cable box (as opposed to a DVR that has a hard drive that can fail).
It is true that the cable companies will be off the hook for maintaining these things, but presumably they'll be covered by some kind of manufacturer's warranty just like the rest of the TV.
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My opinions are my own. No-one else would want them! | |
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| | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| Re: This would seem to be a windfall for said by Corydon :You know, I hear about people having trouble with cable boxes, but my experience has been that they're pretty solid. There's not really all that much that can go wrong with a plain digital cable box (as opposed to a DVR that has a hard drive that can fail). Lots can go wrong, tuners fail/feed noise into the ADC, if your firmware gets screwed up, or an update fails half way through (happened), or your cable company rolls an update which happens to exploit a bug in the box(1/2 of the times, when a VOD title finishes, the box doesn't respond to input and reboots in 15 seconds), and now the box is dead or restarts all the time, or VOD and IPG are dead.
How many TV VCR combos are out there where their VCR unit failed? (I'm comparing apples to oranges, mechanical to pure electronic) | |
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nukscull
@rr.com
| said by Shrapnel64 :If TV Manufacturer's were smart, they would make the box sort of like a Cable Card -- where it is replaceable if something should go wrong with it. It would be pretty sad if after a year of using the TV the built-in cable box device died, and you had to buy another $2,000 TV. But wouldn't they be smarter to leave it integrated fully, so that if it dies when the warranty is out that you would have to buy a new one?  | |
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joako
Premium
join:2000-09-07
Gainesville, FL
| said by Shrapnel64 :If TV Manufacturer's were smart, they would make the box sort of like a Cable Card -- where it is replaceable if something should go wrong with it. It would be pretty sad if after a year of using the TV the built-in cable box device died, and you had to buy another $2,000 TV. Or pay 50 cents/month extra and just get a "real" cable box?
Over 50% of the fees on my account with Cox are for the rental of 2 boxes. I get just about every channel except Spanish channels and porn. It's ridiculous. "digital gateway" fee "DVR service" (what "service"?? I pay for the box, I pay for the content & the box has a CPU and hard drive!).
Of course Cox is going to find a way to screw over their customers when cable boxes are no longer needed....
Anyways in a few months I get to move into a house (from an apartment) in Comcast-land so either I will have Comcast cable or pirated dish tv.
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
 ·AT&T Southwest
| Are you kidding? The lease fees, rental fees, and access charges they make using these things are the windfall.... if that was eliminated, a major cash cow of the cable companies would go away..... Don't look to see them rushing to do this in a hurry.... **unless** they find some way to continue the fees without actually providing you with a boxen.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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Morac
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
·Comcast
| Re: This would seem to be a windfall for said by KrK :**unless** they find some way to continue the fees without actually providing you with a boxen. That's exactly what this does. It opens VOD and OnDemand to people who don't have boxes. It's a win/win situation. Cable providers don't have to go out and purchase tons of boxes and provide them to customers (rentals fees don't immediately cover the costs), but they still get the revenue from VOD and OnDemand purchases. Customers don't need to rent a crappy box from the local provider. | |
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| | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY | Outlet fee, digital duplication fee, fact you get digital cable (digital navigator) fee. All of those still apply. | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| Re: This would seem to be a windfall for Fees are BS ways to charge more but false advertise.
Seriously.
250 Digital HD Channels for $29.95 a month!*
* $4.99 HD Enabling fee, $2.99 Digital Programming Access guide fee, $1.99 cost recovery fee, $3.50 fee maintenance and update fee, additional fees per each HDTV. Does not include Federal Charges, local taxes, or other usage fees. Billing fee not included. Actual cost $62.95 a month.**
**Maybe. Could be more.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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| | | cableguy619
join:2003-06-24
Chula Vista, CA
| said by patcat88 :Outlet fee, digital duplication fee, fact you get digital cable (digital navigator) fee. All of those still apply. Outlet fee whos your cable provider they suck... | |
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nukscull
@rr.com
| said by KrK :Are you kidding? The lease fees, rental fees, and access charges they make using these things are the windfall.... if that was eliminated, a major cash cow of the cable companies would go away..... Don't look to see them rushing to do this in a hurry.... **unless** they find some way to continue the fees without actually providing you with a boxen. But the reason they charge those fees for boxes is because they had to buy them in the first place. It's not like they're making free money, not for a while on some of the boxes anyway. Not to mention all the spares they have to keep on hand to swap out. | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| Re: This would seem to be a windfall for I could see that... but the fees would drop when you had your account for awhile, or you could buy out the box and avoid the fee. Seems not to be the case. The fees themselves are another revenue stream.
Even when they don't have to provide you with the boxes, they'll not drop the fees, methinks... they'll just rename them.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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swhx7
Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia
·RoadRunner Cable
| They'll still have to provide boxes for anyone who doesn't have a TV with built-in support for this Tru2Way.
And I will keep a TV that doesn't do DRM and demand a box, because then the cable company won't have control over my TV.
Think about it, this is a DRM scheme. Do you really want the cable company changing the software on your TV whenever they feel like it? Tru2Way provides for that.
But if you insist on a box, they will have to give you one with outputs and you can still record. | |
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| | ricep5
Premium
join:2000-08-07
Jacksonville, FL
·Comcast Formerly ..
 ·AT&T CallVantage
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: This would seem to be a windfall for Other benefits(?) of having the controller in the TV,
- Behavior tracking, even if you move, they know the address of your controller. How much watching data does it retain?
- More directed advertising, meet a demographic? Here comes those ads like em or not!
- TV only does 720p? OK, we only send you 720p and save on bandwidth somewhere.
It may be more handy to have it built in, but I feel like I am giving up way too much control and information and for what? 1 less remote?
The convenience doesn't out weigh what I believe I am giving up. | |
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neufuse
join:2006-12-06
Indiana, PA
·Comcast
·Verizon Online DSL
| Finally! They should of done this a while ago! Big question though, will they charge us per tv to use the darn things... like they do now with cable boxes... "Oh it has to register on our network, and we charge a small $3 per month per tv registration fee"... something like that I can smell coming | |
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roc5955
Premium
join:2005-11-26
Rosendale, NY
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Finally! Please,
You KNOW that the cable companies are going to nickel and dime us to death with additional fees. Though they will probably be less than that of "renting" a cable box, there will be some sort of fee charged. I would bet the mortgage on it!
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"Understanding is a three-edged sword." | |
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handydave
join:2000-12-14
Totowa, NJ | Re: Finally! They will still charge a fee:
"Under the new system, customers will still need to get a cable card from their provider,Under the new system, customers will still need to get a cable card from their provider," | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| said by neufuse :They should of done this a while ago! Big question though, will they charge us per tv to use the darn things... like they do now with cable boxes... "Oh it has to register on our network, and we charge a small $3 per month per tv registration fee"... something like that I can smell coming And they'd still hit you with the gateway fee as well!
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When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee | |
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birdfeedr
Premium
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Technology for a new revenue stream All this is is a promise by Sony to take all the problems with the existing cable card and try to solve them with a new version. "Hey, we'll put them into new TVs."
Two-way communication. For PPV. That's good, right? Nielsen ratings data. That's got to be good, too. 
I acknowledge there must be a move forward. But at what cost? | |
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| patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| Re: Technology for a new revenue stream said by birdfeedr :Two-way communication. For PPV. That's good, right? Nielsen ratings data. That's got to be good, too. I acknowledge there must be a move forward. But at what cost? Your viewing habits have no privacy. Law only cares about personally identifiable, and we know how narrowly that is interpreted (cough cough AOL).
»www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/47/us···00-.html | |
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DavePR
@dslextreme.com
 from:
djrobx
| Where's the DVR? I don't plan on giving up my DVR. (I don't anticipate replacing my TV anytime soon, for that matter). Will everyone who buys a TV have to buy this cable TV circuitry, even if they don't plan to use it? | |
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See 12 replies to this post |
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MichaelWacey
Premium
join:2005-01-30
Berwyn, PA | Any chance FiOS will adopt this? Is there any chance that FiOS will adopt this? Or, is it a Cable only solution? | |
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| patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY | Re: Any chance FiOS will adopt this? Extremely unlikely. FIOS is a 1 way cable system. The TV would have to have MOCA on it (which is not a cable industry standard) to talk back to Verizon over Ethernet/IP. Not happening. | |
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fcisler
Premium
join:2004-06-14
Riverhead, NY
| No Thanks What about my DVR? Media Center PC?
I'd rather they just started selling everyone the cable card device for the PC. Instead, I have to buy a pre-approved media center PC. Don't have the money or want for one. I'm happy with mine.
I guess it's a good thing for someone like my mom. You couldn't rip the DVR out of my dads hands | |
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| walliser
join:2002-01-27
Philadelphia, PA
edit:
May 28th, @10:06AM
| Re: No Thanks I don't think the cable cos would ever want to put a stranglehold on my TV, now would they? Nah, they wouldn't... 
I think I'll keep my cablebox hooked up to my HTPC, especially with the new crop of HD over composite capture cards. | |
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| | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Navarre, FL
·Mediacom
| Re: No Thanks said by walliser :HD over composite I'm sure you mean component. Anyway, I agree, I'm surprised that I don't see more complaints about how this has potential to affect HTPC or any other "non-standard" devices. | |
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socrplyr
join:2008-03-25
Canton, OH
| How it will work... Several posts here truly fail to see how this will work.
First off this will use CableCard 2.0. This is how the cable companies will keep track of your devices and make up for the lack of cable box/dvr revenue.
Second some TVs will have the circuitry and some won't (cable boxes/dvrs won't go away completely). Cheap TVs will not come with it so they can stay cheap.
Third your dvr isn't going anywhere. Cable companies will continue to support the boxes that they are leasing you. Also, their boxes will probably interface just like any tv and thus they can just order any tru2way box they want and pop a cable card in it. This works for third parties as well (you can bet your pennies that Tivo's Series4 will be tru2way and that sony will come out with a standalone dvr as well). | |
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| | socrplyr
join:2008-03-25
Canton, OH
| Re: How it will work... I agree with most of what you are saying, but if they want to integrate a dvr they can. (I wouldn't want that... imagine the harddrive dying in your tv... what a pain to fix.)
Also note, in my house we can do with one dvr and several other tvs without the dvr, but right now I have to have a cable box in front of them (might as well be a dvr) to get all the channels. I don't think this will fix all the world's problems, but I think it will be a nice feature for some places to just have a working tv (not everyone uses a dvr, although i think they should). And look at the other posts there were clearly some people whining about their dvrs. For what reason? I don't know, but I just wanted to be sure that they understood it. | |
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Kareeser
hm?
Premium
join:2006-07-18
Mississauga, ON | Two-way, eh? Two-way capabilities?
First thing I thought of when I read that was the TV from Nineteen Eighty-Four | |
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swhx7
Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Two-way, eh? Well, there won't be a camera in a new TV as far as I know, but the cable companies would probably mandate that if they could.
They talk about pay per view transactions using the two way, but what is equally valuable to the companies is being able to detect what's playing on every tru2way device at every moment. | |
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| patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY | Once cable boxes get webcams, you can never be sure if that webcam is on or not. | |
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travelguy
join:1999-09-03
Albuquerque, NM
edit:
May 28th, @11:13AM
| Wow... Sony has just reinvented the CableCard slot. | |
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jimbo48
join:2000-11-17
Hayward, CA
·EarthLink
| TRU2WAY?? So we all are itching to run out and plunk down some more money on yet another video display device so that the cable companies can provide their over-priced over-rated and poorly delivered products and services? Who pays for this tidy little feature? You got it, the consumer- even if they NEVER connect to cable, FIOS, UVERSE etc. the cost of this technology will be passed onto them. NOW they are talking about requiring a special TV/feature in order to receive Cable feed and this is called "progress"? Then there is the question of this possibility of yet more intrusion into our viewing habits and our personal information. Wonder what/how their TOS will address hacks, screwups of consumer equipmnet due to Cable delivery faux-pas. Again, the consumer will take on all risk /liability and there will be little or no recourse for them.
Let them keep their VOD /PPV "service" and their Nielsen ratings. its just a sham business model | |
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Anon Y Mouse
@sdrc.com | Trust Sony with anything? Ever since Sony diversified from hardware to software,I stopped trusting them with anything. I'll bet they will put DRM and stuff into every box. They might even disable TiVO like services and do a bunch of other crap | |
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MisterMarcus
join:2001-11-10
San Diego, CA | Problem Sony's involved.
I hate it already. It means unyielding content control, DRM, high prices, etc. | |
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cableguy619
join:2003-06-24
Chula Vista, CA | It' Smart and win win People will buy Cable Card Tv's from Sony, one no longer paying a rental fee, an ugly box, a device that is soley manufactured by one company.. and the cable company just need to provide a quality signal. | |
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Ebolla
join:2005-09-28
Dracut, MA | Re: It' Smart and win win you would still need to lease the cablecard to authorize your channels. | |
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PGHammer
join:2003-06-09
Accokeek, MD
clubs:
·Comcast
| Re: It' Smart and win win And how much are CableCARD lease fees (compared to STB lease fees)? Typically, Comcast charges *nothing* for the first CC and $2 ($1.99, actually) for each additional CC per month. Comcast's only additional equipment fees cover STBs, not CableCARD (Comcast charges $4 monthly for the typical DCT-25xx series STB, which supports VOD and impulse PPV/VOD in addition to digital cable). For example, Comcast does NOT charge CC lessors extra for HD (STB lessors pay $5 extra per month). | |
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Couch Potato
What?
Premium
join:2004-08-29
Evansville, IN | Shhhhhhh..... you're giving them ideas. | |
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Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
clubs: | After working for them for 5 years... I'll stay away from Sony products, but thanks! | |
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nightwalker
Nightwalker
join:1999-08-07
Appleton, WI
| glorified cablecard.With TimeWarner Wisconsin, it is $3.10/month to lease a Cablecard verses $7.45/month to rent a cablebox.
I wish I could stop having a perpetual lease for cable. They catch you at either ends.
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»www.reverse.net | |
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Sony To Help Kill The Cable Box?
