pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium Member join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD |
pnh102
Premium Member
2010-Jun-10 4:05 pm
Golden Years?"Golden Years of DSL?"
You mean back in the olden days when no one who lived more than a few feet from a central office could get any DSL offerings?
I am sure as hell glad we're beyond them. If it took all the CLECs in the world dying off to have the widespread and ubiquitous broadband deployment that we have today and take for granted, then I would say it was worth it.
People complain right and left about how "evil" the incumbent phone and cable companies are. But who made it possible for most of the people in the USA to get broadband at all? It was those companies. The CLECs never did squat. | |
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Re: Golden Years?Meh, depends on who your CLEC is.
Heard of Sonic.net, for example? Fastest DSL in the States. | |
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Re: Golden Years?said by iansltx:Meh, depends on who your CLEC is. Heard of Sonic.net, for example? Fastest DSL in the States. No CLEC co-locates at Remote Terminals. Central Offices were built to the land use patterns in the 1950s or before. Every subdivision/area built since the 1950s will be out of range of the CO for CLEC DSL. | |
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Re: Golden Years?Actually, CLECs CAN colo in RTs. It's just a lot harder to do. | |
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| | | | en102Canadian, eh? join:2001-01-26 Valencia, CA |
en102
Member
2010-Jun-10 7:36 pm
Re: Golden Years?I get the worst part of that...
AT&T - RT is every area but mine AT&T CO ~13,000' AT&T VRAD ~1,000'
Best on DSL was DSL-Extreme ~ 3Mbps/512kbps on fastpath AT&T wanted to cripple me to 2Mbps/512kbps on interleaved. | |
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| | | | | cramer Premium Member join:2007-04-10 Raleigh, NC Westell 6100 Cisco PIX 501
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cramer
Premium Member
2010-Jun-11 3:09 am
Re: Golden Years?I'm ~2500 ft from the DSLAM -- pad mounted, but the line is 10k ft. 6M service works just fine. It worked just fine on the 15k ft line before "it broke" -- when I can hear the DSL line on my phone, it's "VSF". (he moved me to a different port and different pair.) Fastpath vs. interleave has no difference on speed -- now why you're interleaved could explain why it's slow. I'm interleaved @ 7616/512, so you don't have to be "fastpath" to be fast. | |
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to iansltx
Not in Bellsouth controlled areas of NC. The NC PUC mandates facilities access at a CO, however, there is zero legal requirement to grant access anywhere else. So, they don't.
And they a** r*** you at every turn... co-lo space, escorted access to your gear, cross-connects, UNEs, etc. If a tech so much as looks in the direction of your shit, you get billed for it. | |
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to pnh102
said by pnh102:People complain right and left about how "evil" the incumbent phone and cable companies are. But who made it possible for most of the people in the USA to get broadband at all? It was those companies. The CLECs never did squat. Only a Telco shill would deny the impact CLECs had in broadband deployment. | |
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| | pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium Member join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD |
pnh102
Premium Member
2010-Jun-10 4:43 pm
Re: Golden Years?said by jhboricua:Only a Telco shill would deny the impact CLECs had in broadband deployment. You cannot deny what never existed. | |
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| | | calvoiper join:2003-03-31 Belvedere Tiburon, CA |
Re: Golden Years?Sometimes even the threat of competition is enough to force a monopolist to improve their offerings, and that's what happened here, even though the monopolists killed off most of the competition and largely settled for piecemeal duopoly.
calvoiper | |
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| FFH5 Premium Member join:2002-03-03 Tavistock NJ |
to pnh102
said by pnh102:"Golden Years of DSL?" You mean back in the olden days when no one who lived more than a few feet from a central office could get any DSL offerings? I am sure as hell glad we're beyond them. If it took all the CLECs in the world dying off to have the widespread and ubiquitous broadband deployment that we have today and take for granted, then I would say it was worth it. People complain right and left about how "evil" the incumbent phone and cable companies are. But who made it possible for most of the people in the USA to get broadband at all? It was those companies. The CLECs never did squat. And all this merging is desperation on their part. Eventually they will all go out of business or be bought up in bankruptcy for pennies on the dollar. | |
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Re: Golden Years?Bought by whom? Would be nice to get access to a CO or two here. You could do a lot with bonded ADSL2+... | |
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to pnh102
Have you ever ordered services from a CLEC? They often provide services that a LEC can not using the same lines of course. For example I was able to get DSL even though I was further away than the LEC could provide. The CLEC put on their own DSL equipment on a dry unloaded pair which allowed them to do this. said by pnh102:"Golden Years of DSL?" The CLECs never did squat. | |
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| | pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium Member join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD |
pnh102
Premium Member
2010-Jun-10 10:15 pm
Re: Golden Years?said by kieranmullen:Have you ever ordered services from a CLEC? Nope. Never. They never ever offered service to anywhere I lived. said by kieranmullen: They often provide services that a LEC can not using the same lines of course. You got lucky. Most CLECs just piggybacked ILEC lines and nothing more. Couple that with the support nightmares and I think most people can agree that we should be happy this chapter of broadband history is long behind us. | |
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IwazDere
Anon
2010-Jun-24 4:39 pm
Re: Golden Years?Yeah....wow. do you work for the ILECs?
I lived it...worked for many businesses (contract consultant). The ILECs' service sucked. They screwed up order after order and always found a way to get rid of their best techs.
CLEC had to fight to earn business, forced ILEC to perform (if they wanted to compete), and ILECs won mostly based on price (undercutting what CLEC's charged). Ultimately, killing many CLEC.
Speakeasy survived and then THRIVED based on amazing customer service (expensive by any measure) AND weren't quick to dish you or the problems off to ILECs.
Net Neutrality opponents are generally misinformed people that don't understand the intersection of politics (misinformation) and business. Many of the supposed critics of Net Neutrality are in reality thinly veiled fronts for ILECs or business that make money regulating/limiting your use of a PIPE (for data). I argue...what could be more simple than: you pay for a pipe, it's yours to fill it with whatever you please up to capacity. Not theirs to dictate what you can put in your own house/pipe/place.
Hopefully | |
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| cramer Premium Member join:2007-04-10 Raleigh, NC Westell 6100 Cisco PIX 501
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to pnh102
Actually, without the CLECs, we wouldn't have DSL -- or cablemodems -- at all. The ILECs/RBOCs were perfectly happy continuing to shovel money into their pockets. Until the CLEC showed there was demand and a market for "high speed internet", they didn't give one good g** d***. (And seeing how many are metering and limiting their "unlimited" connections while raising prices for even less "broadband" all the while doing nothing but counting their profits... they still don't care.) They made it unnecessarily more expensive and a huge pain in the ass for the CLECs to build a business. And then they immediately undercut them forcing them all into bankruptcy.
How Covad has managed to stay afloat is pure voodoo. They were rolled under the bus, too. | |
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to pnh102
Actually that's kinda backwards.
Had CLEC's not existed we would all still be on first generation DSL. Anyone else notice as CLECs disappeared so has competition?
In fact we're nearly back to where we were over 10 years ago - your choice is the local telco and one cable operator. Both has exclusive territory and neither is worried about upgrading so long as the other company doens't.
I remember when CLEC's were first available. SBC dropped their prices repeatedly. Charter dropped their prices. Both upgraded - just enough - to beat out the competitor.
And for all the areas these companies refuse to serve (because no one else is) wait. It's not like they couldn't take their old Docsis 1 and last gen DSL equipment out to the more rural areas and get something going - it is already paid for. The cable Co would only have to run upgraded lines but could use all the equipment yanked for upgrades to service these areas.
But they won't because there is no competition so as long as they own an exclusive territory they won't do a thing - untl someone else does.
Thank the CLEC - they helped make the incumbents start doing their jobs. As they go, so does the need to do anything but sit on your hands. | |
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| | pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium Member join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD |
pnh102
Premium Member
2010-Jun-11 4:26 pm
Re: Golden Years?I look at it the other way. With CLECs getting a free ride the ILECs had zero incentive to upgrade their networks so that people who lived too far from the central office could get any service at all.
I and a lot of other people were stuck in that situation until the cable companies came and saved the day. | |
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twotwistdprs
Anon
2010-Jun-12 12:46 am
Re: Golden Years?CLEC's a free ride?
Have you ever delt with an Ilec tec when your a Clec tech? There is no free ride! | |
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to pnh102
Not quite the truth there pnh102. I have had DSL with Covad as a CLEC since before AT&T offered DSL in my area - WAAYYYYYYY back in 2000. I was, and still am, just over 12K ft from my CO. I get 90 to 93% of my rated speed from Speakeasy to this day.
Is it the fastest on the planet? Nope. Does it have low latency ? YES. Better system stability than what TW offers in my city? 100 times better easy.
I love my Covad line and won't to go AT&T at all or TW. | |
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| MordhemLove it, Hate it. join:2003-07-10 Baltimore, MD |
to pnh102
The Cable company's did! Fact is most Incumbent phone company's tryed to Nickel and dime their customers. All the money they have made and yet they still force most of the country to stick with technology that has become extinct in even the poor country's of this world. Guess its a hard job making money from nothing.... considering they don't reinvest back in to improving their own network. The only reason they started this fiber bs is because the cable company's have been expanding their fiber service & becoming ever closer to the customers homes making their network hundreds of times better than copper phone wiring! So it was only when they noticed that the cable company's have been investing in their future & knew that they could no longer compete to start upgrading their network. I mean really its a dam shame, they should have at least years ago replaced their RJ-5 with RJ-45 but noooo. That way at least they would not half to make such a leap in to the future at one time!
Bah screw all Tele co's! | |
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NorthpointAh yes, the joys of going from dialup to 768K SDSL. I only had it 10 months before they went under. And it was mere coincidence, nothing more, that Verizon started offering DSL shortly after. Hmmm. At least in my area. | |
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c1590
Member
2010-Jun-10 4:27 pm
Re: NorthpointSame here, had northpoint for a year then it went under. Oh man those were some sweet speeds. The network sucked though. I still have some old traceroutes somewhere showing 140ms to the city next to me. | |
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to birdfeedr
The best I could get was 144k IDSL .... at the time I was pretty darn happy!
To get it installed, they had to trench and run new cable to the house.
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| | kamin join:2003-03-30 Puyallup, WA |
kamin
Member
2010-Jun-10 8:56 pm
Re: NorthpointAs great as 144k would have once been 12 years ago, sadly I'm stuck with a barely working 144k IDSL Qwest (Via Megapath) connection at my work in the core of a city of 90,000 people (The CO's were located at opposite ends of the core when the city was barely a wide spot in the road). Qwest keeps saying they are putting a remote terminal in, but Qwest is good at sucking at existing. Cable would be $11,000 to trench 1 block. Company doesn't want to pay that. I'd kill for half a megabit there. | |
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| | | ricep5 Premium Member join:2000-08-07 Jacksonville, FL |
ricep5
Premium Member
2010-Jun-10 10:11 pm
Re: Northpointsaid by kamin:As great as 144k would have once been 12 years ago, sadly I'm stuck with a barely working 144k IDSL Qwest (Via Megapath) connection at my work in the core of a city of 90,000 people (The CO's were located at opposite ends of the core when the city was barely a wide spot in the road). Qwest keeps saying they are putting a remote terminal in, but Qwest is good at sucking at existing. Cable would be $11,000 to trench 1 block. Company doesn't want to pay that. I'd kill for half a megabit there. Don't you have Clearwire? | |
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| | | | kamin join:2003-03-30 Puyallup, WA |
kamin
Member
2010-Jun-11 11:28 am
Re: NorthpointI'm pretty sure it's available there but the company won't do a wireless solution. | |
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| | | | | ricep5 Premium Member join:2000-08-07 Jacksonville, FL |
ricep5
Premium Member
2010-Jun-11 11:56 pm
Re: NorthpointI am kind of surprised that Qwest can't offer at least a T-1 at your address if you are in central Tacoma. How does your company get your phone service delivered? It is multi-analog bundled into an old Key type switch?
Are there any co-op's or public schools (university extensions or junior colleges) nearby?
I mention it because I was in your situation where in a certain spot in downtown Chicago, I couldn't get CO diversity. I ended up leasing some fiber from the university next door and it was much, better than what both the ILEC and cable company could offer. (Both wanted me to pay trenching costs)
How do the other companies in your building (if any) get their services? If there is another in your building, perhaps you could lease some channels from them.
I find your situation very odd, especially in today's market. I would have expected this back in 1997, but not now. | |
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Best Buy?Best Buy kicking Speakeasy to the crub? Can't blame them. Tried to get DryLine from them and neither them nor Covad could get their act together with ATT. Ended up canceling the order 3x and yet still getting install dates from Covad or unannounced techs showing up at my house to install the DSL | |
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Re: Best Buy?said by hottboiinnc4:Best Buy kicking Speakeasy to the crub? Can't blame them. Tried to get DryLine from them and neither them nor Covad could get their act together with ATT. Ended up canceling the order 3x and yet still getting install dates from Covad or unannounced techs showing up at my house to install the DSL Best Buy is still a owner in Speakeasy - they did not 'kick them to the curb'. | |
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Re: Best Buy?they won't be the owner once Speakeasy merges. That mean BB is giving up the company for stake in the newly merged company. So yes, they did give up on Speakeasy. | |
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Re: Best Buy?Actually according to the story - yes - they will still have a stake in the combined company. | |
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PhoenixDownFIOS is Awesome Premium Member join:2003-06-08 Fresh Meadows, NY |
So bestbuy nows owns Covad/Speakeasy/Megapath?zuh?? | |
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And in other news.......... No one else cares.
Sorry, but its true. The only thing people (majority) use Speakeasy for is to test their internet speeds. | |
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whfsdude Premium Member join:2003-04-05 Washington, DC |
whfsdude
Premium Member
2010-Jun-10 4:31 pm
IPv6I wonder if this means there is finally some hope of COVAD getting some v6 transit. Speakeasy is actually announcing their v6 and has v6 peering. | |
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anonyspeak
Anon
2010-Jun-10 5:02 pm
Re: IPv6Speakeasy didn't not announce IPv6 | |
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Packeteers Premium Member join:2005-06-18 Forest Hills, NY Asus RT-AC3100 (Software) Asuswrt-Merlin
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they hate each otheryears ago i hired megapath to provide dsl from covad, (at that time and location i did not have much choice) and every time it fucked up they would blame the other. usually i could diagnose it myself, and know who's at fault, but it was funny watching a CLEC and ISP bundle'r go at it.
in the end, megapath would make good on any problems, and is probably the superior company of these 3 clowns. | |
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loser u
Anon
2010-Jun-11 9:25 am
Re: they hate each othersaid by Packeteers:years ago i hired megapath to provide dsl from covad, (at that time and location i did not have much choice) and every time it fucked up they would blame the other. usually i could diagnose it myself, and know who's at fault, but it was funny watching a CLEC and ISP bundle'r go at it. in the end, megapath would make good on any problems, and is probably the superior company of these 3 clowns. Personally Covad reads from a script and can not think for themselves. | |
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Z80A Premium Member join:2009-11-23 1 edit |
Z80A
Premium Member
2010-Jun-10 7:03 pm
I can't escape CovadI've always had a bad experience with Covad. I had DSL with a provider that merged with Covad and service went to hell. Then I had Nextweb (WISP) and they were great, fast and pretty cheap. Covad buys them out, cuts the speed in 1/2, doubles the price and billing & CS quickly goes to crap. Now I have a megapath T-1 and in rolls Covad; service suffers with longer hold times and billing is messed up because their customer service systems are horribly integrated. | |
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relevant?Would this new company be relevant in any place but where the incumbents have chosen not to upgrade? Then gouge the hell out of the business customer, because a residential customer wouldn't get caught dead getting their pockets picked by such a bottom feeding corporation.
Sorry to be so blunt about this, but this company preys on the weakness of competition to gouge consumers and they haven't given any consideratio to laying their own fiber in cherry picked regions so the kitt gloves have to come off. | |
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Re: relevant?So you'd rather those areas that the ILECs have ignored get no service at all? | |
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w0mb4t
Anon
2010-Jun-11 9:39 am
how many subscribers does this total out to?if spkz is 30k, megapath is 19k... anyone know covad's #s ?
just curious # of subscribers this totals out to...
49k+ how many covads? | |
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| DaneJasperSonic.Net Premium Member join:2001-08-20 Santa Rosa, CA |
Re: how many subscribers does this total out to?said by w0mb4t :
if spkz is 30k, megapath is 19k... anyone know covad's #s ?
just curious # of subscribers this totals out to...
49k+ how many covads? These seem like pretty small numbers - I'd have though that both Speakeasy and Covad were much larger than this. (Numbers found at » voip-phone-systems.tmcne ··· tail.htm ) Odd. Covad has over 4000 central office colocations, they're big. -Dane | |
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