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Sprint Xohm Chicago Demo: 3Mbps
3229Kbps/1500Kbps with a 70ms ping

Ars Technica attended Motorola and Sprint's Mobile WiMax demonstration in Chicago last night, and offers up an interesting look at the upcoming WiMax service named "Xohm." Ars notes the demonstration offered attendees 2425Kbps/1474Kbps speeds with a 99ms ping while journalists and execs were in motion (the presentation was a river cruise) and 3229Kbps/1500Kbps up with a 70ms ping while docked.

quote:

On the boat, Barry West told us that we were witnessing the "birth of a new technology that's going to change how human beings communicate." Granted, testing 12 laptops and four towers is a far cry from a fully-deployed network with hundreds (or thousands) of users on the same tower. But if the broadband-like performance I experienced on the Chicago River tonight is any indication how WiMAX and Xohm will perform, human beings in the US are going to have an attractive communication alternative once the network goes live.
Of course, Sprint has to actually build the network before they change the world.

The presentation also gave journalists a look at the upcoming Motorola-branded WiMAX Wireless Broadband Gateways Sprint will offer for the service. Sprint plans to launch the service in Washington DC, Baltimore and Chicago next spring, with a broader deployment next fall. Sprint execs have stated that the price tag will be somewhere around $50/month. Also see the Motorola Press Release.
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MysticGogeta
The Robot Devil
Premium Member
join:2005-03-14
Katy, TX

MysticGogeta

Premium Member

Still impressive

I think thats great this could be an alternative to cable/dsl.

qqqq
@PHNX.QWEST.NET

qqqq

Anon

Re: Still impressive

I would definately dump my qworst dsl if it ever becomes available but I am a bit cynical about the availability/price. Like it happens with all innovations greed will takeover engineering feats

S_engineer
Premium Member
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL

S_engineer

Premium Member

Re: Still impressive

It wouldn't be a bad engineering feat, but the pricing sucks. In Chicago you can get either 1.5mb dsl for $20 or 6mb Comcrap or WOW for roughly $50. If you want to roam freely, theres enough coffee houses where in alot of neighborhoods you don't have to pay a dime (not to mention the 50,000 unsecured "Linksys" SSIDs)!

Whats the incentive to switch besides hatred of ATT or Comcrap?

jester121
Premium Member
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL

jester121

Premium Member

Re: Still impressive

A deep burning desire for secured data transmission?

Or maybe the knowledge that you can hook up even if you can't find a parking spot at Panera?
xenophon
join:2007-09-17

2 edits

xenophon

Member

Re: Still impressive

I have 40 SSIDs that I can see from my condo building. I can only solidly connect to one or two if I'm lucky and half the time the connection dies. I need solid connection for work and am willing to pay $60/month for EVDO for significantly more reliability than WiFi and more flexibility/mobility than cable/dsl.

There are millions already paying $60/month for EVDO/HSDPA laptop cards. WiMAX will start at $50/month with no contracts and go down with mass adoption. As I said in another thread, many will be willing to pay for mobility just like we pay more for cellphones that have less reliability/quality than landline phones.

I've dumped cable modem for EVDO just as I've dumped landline phone for cellphone only. Many more will do the same with WiMAX as it's better than EVDO and will be more reliably available than WiFi.

Eventually you'll be buying laptops and consumer devices that have WiMAX and you won't even know it. I'd bet that you would at least try it, especially since there is no annual contract involved.

In 2-3 years time, you probably will not be able to buy a laptop w/out WiMAX/WiFi combo in the same way as you can't find a laptop today w/out WiFi.
xenophon

1 edit

xenophon

Member

Performance

Here's the image from their test..



Speedtest.net doesn't show proper latency. It's probably much lower than 70ms.
expert007
join:2006-01-10
Buffalo, NY

expert007

Member

Re: Performance

Xenophone, just a WAG that you were on the boat. Are they saying that the actual speeds might be somewhere in the neighborhood of what you experienced, with say +/- 300Kbps or so??

Thanks

en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

en102 to xenophon

Member

to xenophon
I'm sure it probably is... that's just to the nearest site (which is also hosted in the same city though).
The main thing will be ... how well will it work with a lot of users on it?
A handful of users across 4 sites is a demo, but not a stress test by any means.
xenophon
join:2007-09-17

3 edits

xenophon

Member

Re: Performance

It can be compared to EVDO. Sprint supplies about 1.4-3Mbps, maybe more to EVDO sites. Many are able to get 2Mbps at times but the average is 700k-1Mbps.

WiMAX sites will likely be supplied 10Mbps minimum, so the average will likely be 2-4Mbps, with peaks near 10Mbps with low usage and near a site.

btw, the image above isn't mine, it's from the article.

S_engineer
Premium Member
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL

S_engineer

Premium Member

Re: Performance

If it can be compared to EDVO, then I can assume like EDVO, there will be plenty of deadspots. On the Southside of Chicago, EDVO is notorius for being inconsistent. I can't see how this made frontpage of BBR. They took 12 people with laptops and a few with cell phones, put them in a virtually a straight line with minimal intrusions and got connectivity....great. Now lets see 1000 people with boundries from Lake to Van Buren and Michigan to Canal. The results will be totally different.
xenophon
join:2007-09-17

1 edit

xenophon

Member

Re: Performance

said by S_engineer:

If it can be compared to EDVO, then I can assume like EDVO, there will be plenty of deadspots. On the Southside of Chicago, EDVO is notorius for being inconsistent. I can't see how this made frontpage of BBR. They took 12 people with laptops and a few with cell phones, put them in a virtually a straight line with minimal intrusions and got connectivity....great. Now lets see 1000 people with boundries from Lake to Van Buren and Michigan to Canal. The results will be totally different.
Yeah, wireless broadband performance will ALWAYS vary widely. It's the nature of the beast. If you want to be stuck to wired broadband go for it. But I've dumped my cable modem for EVDO and never looked back, don't miss wired at all.

WiMAX will be even better and in more variety of devices. For WiMAX devices that use MIMO antennas, there will be less variance. But tower/site load will always be tough to manage as well for the carriers.

en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

en102 to xenophon

Member

to xenophon
I've never used EVDO. UMTS/HSDPA works well for me though (~100 ms latency tethered to cell phone)

ztmike
Mark for moderation
Premium Member
join:2001-08-02
La Porte, IN

ztmike

Premium Member

just cells?

This is just for cell phones and not your home desktop...correct?

BodyBumper
join:2004-06-21
Beverly Hills, CA

BodyBumper

Member

Re: just cells?

No, Xohm/WiMAX is not exclusively for cellphones.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

1 edit

FFH5 to ztmike

Premium Member

to ztmike
said by ztmike:

This is just for cell phones and not your home desktop...correct?
NO.

Here is what they plan for fixed locations:


Motorola-branded WiMAX Wireless Broadband Gateways. They function in the same way as a typical home router, acting as a gateway to a 2.3, 2.5, or 3.5GHz WiMAX network while providing Ethernet jacks and 802.11b/g/n connectivity for devices in the home. A Motorola employee explained that the devices on display were currently in production, with sales to WiMAX providers to begin soon. At some point, he said, consumers would be able to buy the gateways at their local big-box retailers.
xenophon
join:2007-09-17

xenophon

Member

Re: just cells?

WiMAX will be built into laptops, phones, cars, GPS devices, cameras/camcorders, internet radios, pretty much any device that could benefit from being on the Net.

You won't see that with 3G, LTE or cell-based systems. It's just too limiting. WiMAX is more open like WiFi.

To start with, laptops will be the primary use of WiMAX with a few phones maybe.

en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

en102

Member

Re: just cells?

Yeah - CDMA/GSM are currently limited because they've been based on providing voice service as their base, Internet as a secondary service.
WiFi/WiMAX are data based services only.
Lets hope WiMAX does the right thing and start using SIM cards.
aeblank
join:2004-09-07
Cadillac, MI

aeblank to FFH5

Member

to FFH5
As usual, it'll be brought online in cities, where customers have 1, 2, or 3 other options for broadband.

Then there are people like me who are 2 miles out of cable range and 4 out of dsl range. Neither network will be upgraded to include me in anything less than 10 years. I pay $54/mo for ISDN and have tried (more than once) to justify a $200/mo. T1. I'd pay $75+ per month for the kind of service they're talking about.

But again, it'll never happen. They want the population base of cities. Same old story, same old game. I know I pay a price for living where I can pee off my back porch without anyone knowing, but dang is it frustrating.

Don't even get me started about people whining because they have 6M cable and want 8M cable. Crikey, I wish.....

StuckWithSat
@tmodns.net

StuckWithSat

Anon

Re: just cells?

I totally agree - I will be *amazed* if this Xohm service is made available anywhere where there isn't already cable and DSL and T1 etc etc. Rural areas will continue to be totally ignored.
xenophon
join:2007-09-17

xenophon

Member

Re: just cells?

said by StuckWithSat :

Rural areas will continue to be totally ignored.
Clearwire will be rolling out to many rural areas, which will be marketed under Sprint's XOHM brand. But it will take forever to get to the whole country where there isn't any kind of density. States will probably have to subsidize Sprint/Clearwire for significant state-wide coverage as they would lose money to supply a connection to a few users..

sirwoogie
Blah
Premium Member
join:2002-01-02
Saline, MI

sirwoogie to aeblank

Premium Member

to aeblank
You can thank the affiliate iPCS for your woes. Coverage for Sprint in norther lower Michigan is atrocious. Up near Rogers City and Ocqueoc/Millersburg area Sprint put native towers. I had full Rev. A coverage and pretty good speed (1.5/400). Those are some pretty rural areas. Your other problem is that Altel hasn't deployed EVDO in your area either (but they do have 1xRTT).

I can appreciate your problems though. I'm 2000ft short of the CO limitation, and cable stopped at the other side of a railroad track about 750ft. from my house. It's so close i can smell it. But I have absolutely no hope of getting "wired" in this decade (not enough houses to justify cable deployment or an RT). EVDO here is great. WiMax will be fantastic in mid 08. I think Cadillac and the western part of the state will start to get better, most especially if the 700Mhz auction goes to who we hope it goes to.
aeblank
join:2004-09-07
Cadillac, MI

aeblank

Member

Re: just cells?

said by sirwoogie:

I think Cadillac and the western part of the state will start to get better, most especially if the 700Mhz auction goes to who we hope it goes to.
Actually we have EVDO in Caddy now. I want to do some speed tests closer to town (with more signal). But the "EV" icon is lit on my brother's phone. This just happened within the last month or so. My family plan is full, but I'm contemplating a very custom router that can load balance and only connect at certain times (non-peak). Someday........

r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium Member
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX

r81984

Premium Member

Sprint Broadband Direct v2.0

I hope try number 2 works.

Remember Sprint Broadband Direct.
majortom1029
join:2006-10-19
Medford, NY

majortom1029

Member

work

I hope it gets better speeds. 3g goes up to 3.6 down. SO for their sake I hope they can get it faster. Heck here in suffolk and nasau county they are working on wifi for both counties.

So what makes wimax better then 3g or wifi ?
xenophon
join:2007-09-17

4 edits

xenophon

Member

Re: work

3G theoretical MAX is at 3.6Mbps but the average is only 700Kbps to 1Mpbs with peaks to maybe 2Mbps or so. The first revision of WiMAX will probably MAX around 10Mbps and average 2-4Mbps - much higher than current 3G. And WiMAX latency is much better than 3Gtoo.

The WiMAX devices themselves coming out are capable of up to 30Mbps in labs, but the infrastructure won't support that yet.

It all depends on how much backhaul is fed to the site as well. Sounds like Sprint will be feeding >10MBps to most sites. They'll also be using WiMAX as a backhaul to other WiMAX sites. So they may feed over 1Gb to one site and have it feed other WiMAX sites that have no landline backhaul or possibly repeaters sitting on city lightpoles.

en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

en102

Member

Re: work

I think the 'big' benefit (at least for Xohm) is that they have ~100MHz of spectrum to deploy in, and don't have any 'baggage' of providing cell based calls through PSTN.
xenophon
join:2007-09-17

xenophon

Member

Re: work

I agree. Sprint and Clearwire already own 100mhz spectrum per market for WiMAX (as well as Sprint's 3G spectrum). The other carriers will have a helluva time finding even 20mhz to do 4G, at least to get it nationwide in the US. And they'll have to spend many billions to get a smaller amount.
jersey7
join:2007-05-14

jersey7 to xenophon

Member

to xenophon
3G theoretical MAX is 14.4 mbps.

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSDPA
xenophon
join:2007-09-17

1 edit

xenophon

Member

Re: work

said by jersey7:

3G theoretical MAX is 14.4 mbps.

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSDPA
True enough, but of the EVDO/HSDPA devices currently rolled out, it's at 3.6Mbps MAX but the average is 1/3 that. There are 7.2Mbps 3G devices starting to rollout but ATT isn't supporting it yet.

WiMAX 802.16m theoretical max is 1Gbps and will likely be coming before the carriers get LTE out the door in a few years. But I'd expect WiMAX carriers to only use 802.16m for backhaul at first.

»www.dailywireless.org/20 ··· 00-mbps/

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Related WiMAX news

»news.yahoo.com/s/nm/2007 ··· UlMI1vAI
Intel Corp said on Wednesday it would cooperate with Nokia and Nokia Siemens Networks on Wimax technology, and Nokia would use Intel's semiconductors from 2008.

Nokia is to use Intel's Wimax-semiconductor named Baxter Peak in Nseries Internet table devices in 2008, Intel said in a statement.
While WiMAX has been slow to roll out, it does look like momentum is building quickly for a big push in 2008.
ncbill
Premium Member
join:2007-01-23
Winston Salem, NC

ncbill

Premium Member

Price is still an issue

No real technical advantage over EVDO at this point.

And EVDO can be gotten cheaper (even with a voice plan), if you know what I mean, wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more.

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