Back in April wireless carriers and the government announced that they'd be collaborating on building a new nationwide database to track stolen phones (specifically the IMEI number, not just the SIM card ID). The goal is to reduce the time that stolen phones remain useful, thereby drying up the market for stolen phones and reducing the ability of criminals to use the devices to dodge surveillance. The move came after AT&T was sued for doing little to track or stop theft, the lawsuit alleging it was more profitable to do nothing and cash in on stolen phone re-activations. The lawsuit (and government prodding) spurred AT&T to develop new anti-theft tools, and now the first phase of the stolen phone database goes live this week:
quote:As of Wednesday, carriers AT&T and T-Mobile will offer a joint database, said Guttman-McCabe. The two carriers use the same basic network technology so handsets from one can be easily used on the other. Verizon and Sprint, which use a different network technology, will offer their own databases, he said.By the end of November next year, the four carriers will combine their databases so that the vast majority of U.S. cellphone users will be covered. Smaller carriers like Nex-Tech and Cellcom are also getting on board the database. There are also plans to link it with an international database maintained by the GSM Association to stop stolen phones being shipped overseas and used on foreign networks.
Carriers are also expected to ramp up education efforts aimed at reducing theft and resale.
No longer will someone be able to give their phone to a friend, then file a police report, and use the cellphone insurance to get another phone. Now if they report it stolen, the IMEI will be added to the database, deactivating the phone.
Cellphone insurance isn't worth a rat's ass! I paid Verizon for handset insurance for 3 years, and when my phone took a dunk in the toilet, the insurance didn't cover squat. I had to pay for a new phone, which they said I would get back after sending in a rebate form, only the model number of the phone they sold me wasn't covered for the rebate.
I think the database should be online and open to everyone. That way, you can check the IMEI before handing over money to someone selling a phone on craigslist. It would cost the cell providers less by eliminating the need to call and tie up their phone reps to find out if a phone is listed as stolen.
On the down side, what is to stop the cell providers from listing someone's old phone once they upgrade to a new one, even if the old one hasn't been stolen? By turning the old phone into a brick, they could force people to buy new phones to get service.
On the down side, what is to stop the cell providers from listing someone's old phone once they upgrade to a new one, even if the old one hasn't been stolen? By turning the old phone into a brick, they could force people to buy new phones to get service.
That was my thought as well. I could definitely see Verizon doing this.
On the down side, what is to stop the cell providers from listing someone's old phone once they upgrade to a new one, even if the old one hasn't been stolen? By turning the old phone into a brick, they could force people to buy new phones to get service.
That was my thought as well. I could definitely see Verizon doing this.
wouldnt that be kind of like fraud? they cant say a phone is stolen when it really isnt. Not to mention, when you upgrade a phone they arent taking your old phone.
On the down side, what is to stop the cell providers from listing someone's old phone once they upgrade to a new one, even if the old one hasn't been stolen? By turning the old phone into a brick, they could force people to buy new phones to get service.
That was my thought as well. I could definitely see Verizon doing this.
wouldnt that be kind of like fraud? they cant say a phone is stolen when it really isnt. Not to mention, when you upgrade a phone they arent taking your old phone.
Actually it is open to everyone, before you buy the phone get the IMEI and call the provider you wish to activate it with. Do you not check the carfax when you buy a car first?
On the down side, what is to stop the cell providers from listing someone's old phone once they upgrade to a new one, even if the old one hasn't been stolen? By turning the old phone into a brick, they could force people to buy new phones to get service.
That was my thought as well. I could definitely see Verizon doing this.
No, no, and no.
There is, and has been, a blacklist for stolen and lost phones with VZW. Once an ESN/MEID is on the list, the phone cannot be activated. This is a core part of VZW's anti-fraud efforts, and it amazes me that AT&T is only getting to it now.
And stop talking out your ass - only phones lost or stolen are on the list. When you upgrade your phone, you own it legally. Sheesh.
I only see them doing this if you break the contract without paying the ETF. Sending people to collections is a pain in the ass. Making their phone a paperweight is an easy motivator.
On the down side, what is to stop the cell providers from listing someone's old phone once they upgrade to a new one, even if the old one hasn't been stolen? By turning the old phone into a brick, they could force people to buy new phones to get service.
That might be an issue, but I doubt the Big 4 would do that. It would murder their reputation.
Another issue might be people reporting your phone stolen when it isn't, just to cause you some grief. Say an ex-boyfriend or girlfriend looking to make your life miserable.
Another issue might be people reporting your phone stolen when it isn't, just to cause you some grief. Say an ex-boyfriend or girlfriend looking to make your life miserable.
That's what I was thinking. This could be abused in so many ways.
You could go further, and get even with your ex-boss with the right information.
If you file a fake police report it's a slam dunk win in a civil case if the victim sues you.
A guy I used to work with was once arrested after his neighbor filed a false police report. He spent the night in jail, and then was able to prove his innocence and the charges were dropped. He filed a civil suit against the neighbor and got a nice judgement.
On the down side, what is to stop the cell providers from listing someone's old phone once they upgrade to a new one, even if the old one hasn't been stolen? By turning the old phone into a brick, they could force people to buy new phones to get service.
That might be an issue, but I doubt the Big 4 would do that. It would murder their reputation.
Another issue might be people reporting your phone stolen when it isn't, just to cause you some grief. Say an ex-boyfriend or girlfriend looking to make your life miserable.
if they are able to report your phone stolen they would be able to cancel your account entirely. seems like a non issue to me.
Most people report there phones stolen and file police reports because the big 4 are usually lenient if you come to them with a police report and will hand you a free phone, NOW It wont be new ( or the 600 brand new iphone) you lost but they will supply you with a used refurbished 1-2 generation older smartphone (iphone). I had A friend in NY whos car was broken into the thief saw his Iphone 4s in the cupholder broke the back glass and took the phone only and left the cash that was in the glovebox! He filed a police report took it to ATT and they gave him A used (refurb) Iphone 4 free.
That alone may get a lot of people to file a police report, just to evade purchasing a new phone even if they lost it and it was not stolen.
On the down side, what is to stop the cell providers from listing someone's old phone once they upgrade to a new one, even if the old one hasn't been stolen? By turning the old phone into a brick, they could force people to buy new phones to get service.
I can't think the cellphone providers would want to do this since most everyone keeps their old phones as a backup device.
Once your out of contract or fulfilled your contract it I'm sure the providers will not only let you unlock your phone but provide you a clean IMEI from that point on. The thing is those people who dont fill out there contract and skip out on it 1/2 way through if they don't pay the ETF there phones IMEI may/will be put on the block list.
This may also change the current rules carriers have for ETF, they may also add on a prorated $ amount on top of the current ETF to cover the phone subsidy as well. dont pay the ETF and prorated phone subsidy amount? phone gets IMEI banned as well.
This is a good idea to stop criminals from using them, but I don't think it makes up for the lack or personal responsibility. How many phones are truly stolen versus simply lost, falsely reported stolen, or poorly looked after? For someone to steal my phone they would have to actually take it out of my pocket or break into my house and have the slight chance of me not having it with me. Both are unlikely scenarios. Phones are not cars sitting in unmonitored parking lots. If you take reasonable measures to look after them the chance of them getting truly stolen is extremely slim.
This won't stop the amount of phones getting "stolen" it will only kill the after market.
"Carriers are also expected to ramp up education efforts aimed at reducing theft and resale."
This is a good idea to stop criminals from using them, but I don't think it makes up for the lack or personal responsibility. How many phones are truly stolen versus simply lost, falsely reported stolen, or poorly looked after? For someone to steal my phone they would have to actually take it out of my pocket or break into my house and have the slight chance of me not having it with me. Both are unlikely scenarios. Phones are not cars sitting in unmonitored parking lots. If you take reasonable measures to look after them the chance of them getting truly stolen is extremely slim.
This won't stop the amount of phones getting "stolen" it will only kill the after market.
"Carriers are also expected to ramp up education efforts aimed at reducing theft and resale."
I'll believe it when I see it.
You're definitely right with that one. I don't even know how many times I've been to a bar, restaurant, or even playground where people would just leave their phone on the table as they go to do other things, such as using the restroom.
You're definitely right with that one. I don't even know how many times I've been to a bar, restaurant, or even playground where people would just leave their phone on the table as they go to do other things, such as using the restroom.
... and that makes it ok for someone else to pickup and sell/use because.....
It may not be right but it's not the Govt's nor carriers job to baby sit the customer either. What happens when I lost my phone and report it lost, it goes on the database and I end up getting it back. does the IEMI get removed from the list? This is another crazy form of regulation to "protect" those that don't want to take responsibility on anything.
The better question is though will resellers be forced to comply? Especially companies like Cricket that allow flashed phones and will take any phone as long as it works, since they maintain their own database and will reuse phones regardless if reported stolen or not.
Reporting it lost vs. stolen are looked at 2 different ways by the big carriers this Ive noticed. Lost means you are S.O.L, and you need to purchase a new phone, stolen with a police report you may be able to get your carrier to paly ball. ( see my post above).
How many phones are truly stolen versus simply lost, falsely reported stolen, or poorly looked after?
This won't stop the amount of phones getting "stolen" it will only kill the after market.
In New York, more than 40 percent of all robberies involve cellphones and in Washington, D.C., cellphone thefts accounted for 38 percent of all robberies in 2011.
If there is little to no aftermarket for stolen phones, the criminals will stop stealing them.
I have a hard time believing those numbers are truly all robberies. Around here, the average stolen cell phone is a coverup for "I left at a bar," "I was drunk and left it at a party," "I forgot it on the roof of my car and drove off," "I was stupid and left it lying around," "I dropped it on the sidewalk," "I left my phone at my gf/bf's house and they read my texts and flushed the phone down the toilet when the realized I was cheating on them," etc. Avoiding the challenge of personal responsibility and possible humiliation. I can't count the amount of teenagers especially that I have seen use the excuse of it being stolen to cover up their irresponsibility.
How many of them are filing fake police reports on their stolen phone? Maybe they tell their friend's and family that it was stolen, but I doubt they're filing police reports and being counted in these statistics.
I think you would be surprised. If they can get something out of it, say insurance money, they'll do it.
Agreed, once they see a loophole ( which there is one see my posts above) its all over. Theres a big difference to report it stolen and get a free phone or say you lost it and be S.O.L and need to purchase a phone all over again.
How many phones are truly stolen versus simply lost, falsely reported stolen, or poorly looked after?
This won't stop the amount of phones getting "stolen" it will only kill the after market.
In New York, more than 40 percent of all robberies involve cellphones and in Washington, D.C., cellphone thefts accounted for 38 percent of all robberies in 2011.
If there is little to no aftermarket for stolen phones, the criminals will stop stealing them.
Or the criminals that steal phones will learn how to clone imeis.
The criminal element, for the most part, is made up of people looking for the "path of least resistance". This applies to pretty much everything they do or ever have done in life. School, work (if they work), their homes, thievery & making money.
If your typical off the shelf thief or robber finds it more difficult to simply flip the phone over to a friend in exchange for "whatever" or sell it on Craigslist, they'll go elsewhere.
There's always some new way to make a quick, illegal buck....
Talented people when it comes to phone stuff make apps for six figures.
Talented lazy people when it comes to phone stuff run unlocking/repair businesses out of their apartments.
Idiots when it comes to phone stuff stand on street corners, wait for people who are not paying attention, and strike.
Not precise, but you get my point. There may be one tiny group of talented people who get on the news because they created a business based on helping criminals turn over stolen phones. For the most part, REAL phone thefts(not false claims for insurance/replacement purposes) are degenerate white trash & hoodrats who have no idea how to do that shit.
Let's say you're smart enough to figure out how to change/get around the IMEI number. You are probably smart enough to do something else with your life that pays 5x as much, with the same amount of effort applied.
Talented people when it comes to phone stuff make apps for six figures.
Talented lazy people when it comes to phone stuff run unlocking/repair businesses out of their apartments.
Idiots when it comes to phone stuff stand on street corners, wait for people who are not paying attention, and strike.
Not precise, but you get my point. There may be one tiny group of talented people who get on the news because they created a business based on helping criminals turn over stolen phones. For the most part, REAL phone thefts(not false claims for insurance/replacement purposes) are degenerate white trash & hoodrats who have no idea how to do that shit.
Let's say you're smart enough to figure out how to change/get around the IMEI number. You are probably smart enough to do something else with your life that pays 5x as much, with the same amount of effort applied.
No, but these are the people who scour craigslist for "Mr. $10 IMEI changer"
The criminal that cannot change an IMEI number, the criminal that can do nothing other than rob a phone from a passerby on the street, is a criminal who does not read the news. He will have no idea what an IMEI number is, or that IMEI numbers are reported to a database which devalues stolen phones.
Further, many people will have no idea what their IMEI number is. Many people do not save the phone box or their IMEI number prior to theft. They'll report it stolen without reporting the IMEI number.
If you find a lost phone and try to sell it, you're stealing it and the phone belongs in this list anyway. It's fairly easy to figure out who owns the phone and get it back to them. If you can't be bothered with this, give it to the police or some sort of lost and found where you found it.
Think of those people who walk down the street looking at their phone with their headphones on, not paying attention.
I got called a pervert by a woman who WAS going to be hit by a car. I ran in front of her and grabbed her(accidentally by the chest) before she was hit and almost killed. People do that all the time. Do that in the dark in a not nice neighborhood once and your phone's gone.
You could reply with "people shouldn't do stupid things." You'd be right. But they do. Many public services exist because millions of people not ready for children couldn't invest $0.99 in protection.
This database may help to stop phones from being reactivated on a cellular account. However, can't all smartphones still be used on a wi-fi network, almost like a regular smartphone? My son's iPhone was stolen last year, and the thief sold it right away to make a quick buck. The buyer was able to use wi-fi, even though he couldn't activate the phone with Sprint. Apple would not totally deactivate the iPhone, so essentially he could use it with Google Voice without a problem.
Jhacker I kind of agree with you it will only stop phones form being reactivated. The crooks will just circumnavigate the system how? Cant sell the entire phone because the IMEI is bad? Do the same thing they do with cars, disassemble it and sell it for parts on craigslist or ebay.
Just as much is made in repairs as there is in straight sales..
"You can build a better mouse trap but the mouse will just get smarter"
Most non nerds do not buy a cellular phone to use it over wifi with google voice.
"Hey, I'm sorry, I'm walking to the hallway to throw the garbage out, and since I don't pay for phone service I'm about to be cut off, I will call you when back in range" is just not something the average dude does.
Or places from just buying the stolen phones for parts. So instead of Gazelle.com paying you a few hundred for the phone they will pay under a hundred knowing its stolen (when they get it and they cant use it to resell) to use the parts for refurbs.
Thats what needs to be asked for the amount of phones that are already stolen and unknowingly being used because this database was not in place. Will those currently in use be exempt or will there be a lot of unhappy campers who currently have service and will wake up one day and see there phones have no service, when trying to dial out there will be a prompt that says " were sorry your call is being redirected to customer service please hold"
I could see a lot of that happening if they go retroactive with the system