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SuddenLink Expands 50 Mbps, 107 Mbps Tiers
'Max 107' hits Tyler, 'Max 50' pushes into NC, LA, MO
by Karl Bode 06:10PM Thursday May 20 2010
Back in March we noted how SuddenLink Communications had launched a new 107 Mbps down, 5 Mbps up cable broadband service, proclaiming it "the fastest available in the U.S. today." Technically that's not true, but 107 Mbps still tops most offerings -- and pleases those niche bleeding edge users out there. Suddenlink now says they've expanded the footprint (via Telecompetitor) of both their 50 Mbps and 107 Mbps downstream tiers into additional markets. The upgrades are part of "Project Imagine," a $350 million investment plan through 2012 aimed at upgrading networks to DOCSIS 3.0 technology, pushing HD channel counts in all markets past 200, and upgrading On Demand services for all users.

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perki

join:2008-12-01
Santa Maria, CA

What no upload?

Wheres the beef?

Philmatic
Premium
join:2000-07-15
Santa Barbara, CA

Re: What no upload?

Seriously, I don't think 5mbps is even enough for the ACKs. The upstream should always be a minimum of 10% of the downstream speed.
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·Verizon Online DSL

Re: What no upload?

Every time I hear the ACK argument I cringe. ACKs might take one percent of any downstream bandwidth, not 10%! Try downloading a file and watch the return packets to see what I mean.

For what it's worth, 5 Mbps is more upload sped than any of the competing providers where Suddenlink is launching this service, and 107 Mbps is far and away better...U-Verse tops out at 24/3 at this point and that's what they're copmeting against in Tyler.

Philmatic
Premium
join:2000-07-15
Santa Barbara, CA

Re: What no upload?

I didn't say it needed to be a minimum of 10% to support the ACKs, I just said it SHOULD be a minimum of 10%, you know... to be a decent upload speed.

You can't just look at the upload speed and rate the ISPs based on that, I was talking about ratios. U-Verse at 24/3 is still a better up/down ratio (12.5%) than Suddenlink's 107/5 (4.6%). To be equal to U-Verse, they would need to provide at least 13mbps on the upside for the 107mbps tier.
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2

Re: What no upload?

Or they could decrease download speeds to 50 Mbps without decreasing the price. How would you like that?
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3
said by Philmatic:

You can't just look at the upload speed and rate the ISPs based on that, I was talking about ratios. U-Verse at 24/3 is still a better up/down ratio (12.5%) than Suddenlink's 107/5 (4.6%). To be equal to U-Verse, they would need to provide at least 13mbps on the upside for the 107mbps tier.
Yes you can.. you absolutely can look at just the upload speed if you want. You're some how, artificially, putting weight on the ratio of up to down and that's just not a strong argument in most cases.

When you're download speed is 107mb, even 50, to have 5 on the upload is just fine. Most people are still downloading more than they are uploading. The average residential user STILL receives MUCH more than they send. A "ratio" doesn't make upload speed or the service what it is... it's the actual speed that matters.

As most people still download far more than they upload, to think that just becuase someone wants faster downloading for things like movie streams and other stuff doesn't mean they're likely to also upload more becuase of that.

If you're talking about 1.5/64kbps then we have an argument. But, when the download speeds are getting to where they are these days, as long as you have a reasonable upload, ratios are mostly talking point arguments anymore. I'd be a little more upset if they set their upload to something like 1 or 2mb, but 5 is not bad.

jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Ashburn, VA
kudos:1
If someone on the network were to upload a large file, or even several smaller files, would everyone else on the network be crippled until the uploads were complete? Could a streaming movie service be disrupted during an upload, because of so little room available for acknowledgments? I have never been able to test this as my speeds have never been so disproportional between downloads and uploads. Currently, if I attempt to simultaneously max my upload and download, there is still plenty of performance to provide even an HD movie stream.

Would anyone be able to run a new SlingBox device with this type of speed and not expect it to have a serious impact on download performance?
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·Verizon Online DSL

1 recommendation

Re: What no upload?

As long as you have a decent router that does a little bit of QoS then you should be perfectly fine. There's enough upload bandwidth there that services can scale down by a few KB/s to make room as needed, and ACKs would have no problem making it from point A to point B.

Slingbox would work fine; you'd have a few Mbps up left over.

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4
said by perki:

Wheres the beef?
standard cable fare. no meat where it counts. yawn.
--
The shortest distance between 2 points adds 1.5 stars to T. want $25? solve »coord.info/GC20A37 for me

XLIV
UFO

join:2003-02-24
Bossier City, LA

:)

Sweet!
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·Verizon Online DSL

You should probably mention where this is getting rolled out

New cities: Tyler, Whitehouse
Previous cities: Pflugerville, Georgetown, Leander

For a bit of background, Tyler is Suddenlink's big network hub for Texas and a lot of traffic flows through there for their national backbone as well from waht I've seen of traceroutes. So it's a natural area for pushing out a super high speed tier.

As for the Austin suburbs where they first launched the super-fast tier, they buy transit from AboveNet, which also provides transport services (point to point) over fiber. AboveNet sells some pretty beefy links (definitely 10 Gbit and maybe even 40 Gbit) and their network extends into Austin. Betcha Suddenlink is a big customer of theirs in the area, and was underutilizing their bandwidth on that transport link. So why not fire up a nice high-download tier now that the last mile is flush with upgrades from Project Imagine?

FWIW, here are the populations of the five cities, according to CityData:

Tyler - 97,705
Whitehouse - 6,030 (Tyler suburb)
Georgetown - 49,618 (growing quickly)
Pflugerville - 19,299
Leander - 11,084

Hookem99
Deep In The Heart

join:2007-07-18
Pflugerville, TX
kudos:1

Re: You should probably mention where this is getting rolled out

said by iansltx:

New cities: Tyler, Whitehouse
Previous cities: Pflugerville, Georgetown, Leander

Georgetown - 49,618 (growing quickly)
Pflugerville - 19,299
Man, that citydata must be old! While im sure G'town is more than 49k, I know my little bedroom community of Pfville, is pushing 50k+. I'd be willing to be Leander is much better than 11k too.

Sorry, just had to stick up for my 'little' town...........
--
Women think they are clever just because they can fake an orgasm for a relationship, whats the big deal a man can fake a whole relationship for an orgasm!!!!
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·Verizon Online DSL

Re: You should probably mention where this is getting rolled out

Says the data is from 2007, so I wouldn't be surprised one bit if everyone's numbers on that list are higher. Problem is, who do you go to for stats?

Guess WolframAlpha is closer to the truth...

»www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=pf···ville+tx
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·Verizon Online DSL

50M markets

Not sure what the upload speed is in these markets...5M or 2M or something in between?

Bossier City, LA - 56,461
Haughton, LA - 2,792
Lake Charles, LA - 71,061
Sulphur, LA - 19,450
Nixa, MO - 18,829
Ozark, MO - 18,095
New Bern, NC - 23,128

New Bern had 50M turned up earlier this month, everything else is much more recent.

What's interesting is that, in SL's 1Q earnings call on Tuesday, the company stated that DOCSIS 3.0 is now available to two thirds of its customers, VOD is available to 60% and HD is available to 90%...sounds like they have their priorities straight . Contrast this to Time Warner Cable, who is dragging their feet on the tech, Insight Broadband (currently no D3 rollout at all) and Comcast (has D3 rolled out to 85% or so of its footprint but is much more urban than SL).
TheRogueX

join:2003-03-26
Springfield, MO
Reviews:
·Mediacom

Re: 50M markets

What, are these population numbers or general subscriber numbers for these given locations? Because I live just north of Nixa and Ozark and I can tell you that neither of these cities has 18k people. They might have 18k *combined.*
--
»/im/82288374/5591.png
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2

Re: 50M markets

»www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=ozark+mo
»www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=nixa+mo
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2
Asked @suddenlink (Twitter ftw) and UL is 3 Mbit in New Bern. Not sure about other locations.

gatorkram
Need for Speed
Premium
join:2002-07-22
Winterville, NC
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Suddenlink

Where is my upgrade?

Typical of my posts...

We still can't get the 20 MAX package here in Greenville.

Soon I guess... Oh and no docsis 3.0 yet either... Bleh
--
Give me bandwidth or give me death!
»/testhistory/661871/4f240

Ericthorn
It only hurts when I laugh
Premium
join:2001-08-10
Paragould, AR
Reviews:
·Paragould.net
·Paragould.net

Please extend your service 25 miles

Suddenlink is 25 miles away from where I live offering 10mg down for less than I pay for 4mg down in Podunkhell (and we JUST got upgraded to 4mg from 2mg a month ago after 6yrs of 60$/mo for 2mg/512) - PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE lay some pipe in this town (leave your minds at the gutter please)!

I can't even imagine a 50mg down, much less 107mg.. for what I'm paying for 4mg, I'd happily pay 100/mo for a 10mg, or 50mg, or ONE-OH-SEVEN mg...

This is definitely one up and comer.. I just wish I could invest in them right now.
--
Ever try stuffing a melted marshmallow up a wildcat's ass? It can be done, but you have to like your job. - This Is The Way The World Ends by James Morrow - Join a DC club, it can't hurt you!
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2

Re: Please extend your service 25 miles

One word: wireless.

One other word: eventually.

Suddenlink bought some customers recently that wre farther from their own footprint, so if your provider's cable system isn't crap then the option might be available for you.

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4

"Imagine"

how happy your subs would be if you focused on giving them what they CURRENTLY pay for before announcing pie in the sky plans!
--
The shortest distance between 2 points adds 1.5 stars to T. want $25? solve »coord.info/GC20A37 for me
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2

Re: "Imagine"

Wait, you're suddenly a Suddenlink customer in a Cox area?
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS

realistic expectations

15 megabits is the most the cable industry will give to consumers. there are many reasons for this, one of which is the nature of docsis 3 is only to provide a docsis 1.1/2.0 upload stream and typically that's been 1-5 megabits upload due to a lack of true channel bonding capability. the cable industry rushed to get docsis 3 in place but did not expect to have a problem with channel bonding. by the end of the year cable companies won't have that as an excuse anymore so upstream speeds should crank up to 15 megabits upload as the entry-level to any docsis 3 tier. if they don't, then they're holding out on you... so if there is a reasonable telco competitor then switch.
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·Verizon Online DSL

Re: realistic expectations

CV is using one DOCSIS 2 channel to do its 15 Mbps uploads. But other providers don't have as few nodes per home, or have less high-quality upstream channels (so lower modulations must be used) so they have to do something slower.

But when US channel bonding starts to happen you will start seeing better upload speeds...assuming you have competition in your area.
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS

Re: realistic expectations

said by iansltx:

CV is using one DOCSIS 2 channel to do its 15 Mbps uploads. But other providers don't have as few nodes per home, or have less high-quality upstream channels (so lower modulations must be used) so they have to do something slower.

But when US channel bonding starts to happen you will start seeing better upload speeds...assuming you have competition in your area.
Docsis 2.x is supposed to be a ratio of about 10 gigabit per 500 homes on a node (depending upon usage patterns that is split with similar bandwidth ratios). If deployed that way, it's not a matter of upstream bandwidth, but more a factor of the last mile cabling and/or two-way amplifiers on the return path. Doing cabemodem on the cheap is what alot of the minority carriers won't be able to do if they expect docsis 3 channel bonding to work... comcast will figure that one out real soon.
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·Verizon Online DSL

Re: realistic expectations

Not sure what you're saying here. 10 gigabits would require over 250 channels on downstream only, or more than 1.5 GHz of capacity. So that's multiple systems, especially if you want to add some TV in with it.

Fro what I can gather the Comcast system around here has four or five DS channels and two US channels, one of which is running at a lower modulation (16QAM, used to be QPSK or maybe BPSK) than the other. I wouldn't expect even the most advanced cable systems to have more than ten DS channels and 4 US channels at this point...

jadebangle
Premium
join:2007-05-22
00000
kudos:1

price?

50mb 100 bucks? 107mb 200?
caps? 100gb? 200gb?
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2

Re: price?

50 or 107 are mutually exclusive; if 107 is in your area you don't get 50.

From what I've seen 107 is $120.

No caps.