 backness
join:2005-07-08
K2P OW2 | Cable fan boys.... be afraid...
be very afraid... | |
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MattE
Obama '08
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
 ·North State Commun..
 ·Corporate Colocation
| Re: Cable fan boys.... said by backness  :be afraid... be very afraid... Not quite yet, cable is still more widely deployed and can always compete on price rather than speed.
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
| Re: Cable fan boys.... said by MattE :Not quite yet, cable is still more widely deployed and can always compete on price rather than speed. When was the last time cable lowered prices?
I wouldn't mind if cable did make the improvements necessary to catch up with Verizon, even if it meant a price hike. If Verizon can snatch more customers from cable as a result of this service, it will provide a huge incentive for cable to improve things.
The funny part is that earlier in this decade, cable was killing Verizon by deploying broadband to places that could not get DSL.
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MattE
Obama '08
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
·Corporate Colocation
| Re: Cable fan boys.... I didn't say they WOULD lower prices ... I said they COULD. It's the only thing I can see them doing because even with DOCSIS 3.0 ... they won't be able to match most FiOS offerings.
They could also just not care. I have a BPON fiber connection from a regional ILEC and Time Warner hasn't raised the speeds nor lowered their pricing to compete. | |
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DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
 ·Patriot Media
 ·Cingular Wireless
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Cable fan boys.... said by MattE :I didn't say they WOULD lower prices ... I said they COULD. It's the only thing I can see them doing because even with DOCSIS 3.0 ... they won't be able to match most FiOS offerings. They could also just not care. I have a BPON fiber connection from a regional ILEC and Time Warner hasn't raised the speeds nor lowered their pricing to compete. But most cable still have a bit a leeway, even with docsis 1, they can do 10/10. With DS3, they can do 100/100. But the market hasnt drawn speeds that high yet. I would be happy if 25/25 were standard its more then i will ever need, and i would rather a low latency network, then to 100/100 high latency
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Before God we are all equally wise - and equally foolish.
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MattE
Obama '08
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
·Corporate Colocation
| Re: Cable fan boys.... said by DaveNJ :said by MattE :I didn't say they WOULD lower prices ... I said they COULD. It's the only thing I can see them doing because even with DOCSIS 3.0 ... they won't be able to match most FiOS offerings. They could also just not care. I have a BPON fiber connection from a regional ILEC and Time Warner hasn't raised the speeds nor lowered their pricing to compete. But most cable still have a bit a leeway, even with docsis 1, they can do 10/10. With DS3, they can do 100/100. But the market hasnt drawn speeds that high yet. I would be happy if 25/25 were standard its more then i will ever need, and i would rather a low latency network, then to 100/100 high latency DOCSIS 1 can't do 10Mbps to an individual cable modem unless they put an individual cable modem on its own node. The maximum the Business Class folks even offer over a cable modem is 2Mbps here. If you want more upstream you have to purchase fiber from them.
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halfband
Premium
join:2002-06-01
Huntsville, AL
·Comcast
| Re: Cable fan boys.... said by MattE :DOCSIS 1 can't do 10Mbps to an individual cable modem unless they put an individual cable modem on its own node. The maximum the Business Class folks even offer over a cable modem is 2Mbps here. If you want more upstream you have to purchase fiber from them. Docsis 1 is 10Mbps per channel. There can be multiple channels on a node. The channels are further split by slots, but of course that gets into shared bandwidth.
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MattE
Obama '08
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
·Corporate Colocation
| Re: Cable fan boys.... said by halfband :said by MattE :DOCSIS 1 can't do 10Mbps to an individual cable modem unless they put an individual cable modem on its own node. The maximum the Business Class folks even offer over a cable modem is 2Mbps here. If you want more upstream you have to purchase fiber from them. Docsis 1 is 10Mbps per channel. There can be multiple channels on a node. The channels are further split by slots, but of course that gets into shared bandwidth. You are correct, my apologies for using the incorrect terminology.
They still aren't going to allocate an entire channel for one customer ... even with oversubscription it's doubtful.
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AZwldcats
Ummm That's Right
join:2001-02-20
Tucson, AZ
clubs:
| These 15/15 or 20/20 tiers are going to be attractive to 5-10% of the users only....
Everyone else, the casual family using the internet, moms and pops looking at grandkids pictures aren't going to care...
Plus it will get all the "heavy" users off of cable so that it is more enjoyable for the rest of us.... | |
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| | | | | backness
join:2005-07-08
K2P OW2 | Re: Cable fan boys.... ...and a computer only needs 640k memory | |
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Ebolla
join:2005-09-28
Dracut, MA | Re: Cable fan boys.... he said attractive to a small % of people. he didnt say that a higher speed is not needed or unusable. | |
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| | | | | ashworth
join:2001-10-06
Pittsburgh, PA
·Verizon Online DSL
| The strategic point is that VZ can do it, and cable can not within the foreseeable future. This is a marketing ploy to cater to the 5-6% of actual users that will upgrade to the service, hopefully to improve that number to say 15-20%. This symmetrical service is designed to differentiate itself from cable or anything else for that matter....I think it does that. | |
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| | | | | maximvs64
join:2007-11-13
Davidsonville, MD
| To further your point, most people would be content with 1.5/768. People hear the speeds and want it whether or not they actually need it. Bragging rights at the water cooler kind of thing. Comcast advertisements compare speeds with DSL all the time in my area. Most of my neighbors have switched over to FiOS since it became available recently and maybe 10% of them at best use anywhere that bandwidth. | |
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| | Jonbo298
join:2004-01-12
Council Bluffs, IA
| said by MattE :said by backness :be afraid... be very afraid... Not quite yet, cable is still more widely deployed and can always compete on price rather than speed. The sad part, is that you sound like telco's when DSL was becoming more widespread. "But...but...we have price!" Oh how the times have changed  | |
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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
 ·Verizon FIOS
| said by MattE :said by backness :be afraid... be very afraid... Not quite yet, cable is still more widely deployed and can always compete on price rather than speed. Yeah. Dialup said the same thing. | |
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MattE
Obama '08
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
·Corporate Colocation
| Re: Cable fan boys.... said by cdru :said by MattE :said by backness :be afraid... be very afraid... Not quite yet, cable is still more widely deployed and can always compete on price rather than speed. Yeah. Dialup said the same thing. Ok, I'll bite.
Are you kidding me? Cable can compete on downstream speed, the only area they CAN'T compete is upstream speed.
Comparing Cable to dialup is a bit of a stretch. Especially in comparison to a product only a very, VERY, small portion of the country will even have the opportunity to get.
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whatever78
@qc.ca
| said by backness :be afraid... be very afraid... Why, this is in the USA, not ontario...Although they should expand to canada instead of europe. | |
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| Asmodeus1
join:2004-05-26
Spring Valley, CA
| said by backness :be afraid... be very afraid... of what...? i'm in cox land and i'll never see verizon fios in my area... ever... so i'm not really going to cry over something i never had to begin with... i'd like to see fios offered, but it won't happen... | |
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bcronin
Premium
join:2004-03-27
Hyde Park, NY | Irrelevant. Its not available here. Case closed (for now) ... | |
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deblin
Dark Side of the Moon
Premium,MVM
join:2001-09-01
Middletown, DE |  Business customers not mentioned (not surprised)
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JasonD
@comcast.net
 from:
TK Junk Mail
| Just wait........... Symmetrical speeds at the level VZ is now dishing out will only end badly. Bitorrent users and other abusers will be drawn to this like flies to honey, not to mention every black hat would love to have 20/20 machines at their disposal. So count on plenty of intrusion attacks.
Again, this is gonna end badly. There's just no way VZ can afford to offer this to residential users. | |
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MattE
Obama '08
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
·Corporate Colocation
| Re: Just wait........... said by JasonD :
Symmetrical speeds at the level VZ is now dishing out will only end badly. Bitorrent users and other abusers will be drawn to this like flies to honey, not to mention every black hat would love to have 20/20 machines at their disposal. So count on plenty of intrusion attacks.
Again, this is gonna end badly. There's just no way VZ can afford to offer this to residential users.
That sounds like the exact kind of drivel that was spewed when high speed modems became available.
They have the backbone network in place to support it as well. Have you ever looked at their network? It's pretty impressive: »www.verizonbusiness.com/us/about···aps.fxml
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wifi4milez
In Need Of Garbage Pail Kids 1st Series
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| Re: Just wait........... Well, technically the link you just provided is the old MCI (uunet) backbone, NOT Verizon (LEC). Verizon Business = MCI, and although the companies both have "Verizon" in their name they have, and maintain, completely different networks. Verizon (LEC) = NYNEX, and FIOS is being offered by that group. Verizon (LEC) has no international reach at all, they are simply the old Bell affiliate here on the (primarily) East Coast. Its quite confusing, but you really need to look at the two as totally separate companies. They actually still compete with one another for business in major markets.
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| Gogo1
join:2004-05-27
Brooklyn, NY | said by JasonD :
Symmetrical speeds at the level VZ is now dishing out will only end badly for Comcast.
Fixed your post. | |
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halfband
Premium
join:2002-06-01
Huntsville, AL
·Comcast
| Re: Just wait........... said by Gogo1 :said by JasonD :
Symmetrical speeds at the level VZ is now dishing out will only end badly for Comcast.
Fixed your post. If Verizon would deploy FIOS through more of the Comcast area that might be true. For all of us in Att/BS or other areas, Verizon is not even a player. Looks like the actual FIOS-Comcast overlap is small enough that Comcast does very little if anything about it.
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HotRodFoto
Premium
join:2003-04-19
Denver, CO
| said by JasonD :
Symmetrical speeds at the level VZ is now dishing out will only end badly. Bitorrent users and other abusers will be drawn to this like flies to honey, not to mention every black hat would love to have 20/20 machines at their disposal. So count on plenty of intrusion attacks.
Again, this is gonna end badly. There's just no way VZ can afford to offer this to residential users.
They can afford to do it when everyone who uses Comcast in their region where this is offered at is jumping ship in a heartbeat! I know I sure as hell would, if it was ever offered in Colorado.
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Capturing the images of Colorado
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| | Cjaiceman
join:2004-10-12
Englewood, CO
·Comcast
| Re: Just wait........... I know I would jump all over that 15/15 so fast. This would be soooo much better than the 8000/768 I get from Comcast now. Qwest isn't even an option because their 7Mb/sec is good, but for the same price the 8 from Comcast does much better. I'm not holding by breath for Qwest to do ANYTHING fiber related in the near future. | |
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danclan
join:2005-11-01
Midlothian, VA
·Verizon FIOS
| said by JasonD :
Symmetrical speeds at the level VZ is now dishing out will only end badly. Bitorrent users and other abusers will be drawn to this like flies to honey, not to mention every black hat would love to have 20/20 machines at their disposal. So count on plenty of intrusion attacks.
Again, this is gonna end badly. There's just no way VZ can afford to offer this to residential users.
seriously...when you look in a mirror...do you see stupid people?
This is such utter nonsense...Verizon is already testing 100GBPS over single light stream over fiber. There is no bandwidth shortage. Bittorrent is not the end of the world. Every year some other asshat proclaims the internet will end due to some other new technology...well its still here and still growing.
The black hats truly have better things to do that scan verizon..script kiddies will always be around and there is NO shortage of intrusion attempts today...more bandwidth wont change that. I guess all those 100mbfd connections in europe and asia are TEAMING with danger! WILL ALL THE US BASED BLACK HATS PLEASE MOVE TO EUROPE...OR ASIA...thank you....that is all... | |
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majortom1029
join:2006-10-19
Lindenhurst, NY | why If fios is so great why doesnt every verizon state have 20/20 why is it some states only get 15/15? | |
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ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
clubs: | Sandvine free! I am waiting for the usual crew to come in talking abotu how much better Comcast is, how bad telco's (specifically AT&T) are, and how Comcast cures all the world's ills.
At least FiOS is Sandvine free. | |
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halfband
Premium
join:2002-06-01
Huntsville, AL
·Comcast
| Re: Sandvine free! said by ptrowski :I am waiting for the usual crew to come in talking abotu how much better Comcast is, how bad telco's (specifically AT&T) are, and how Comcast cures all the world's ills. As a current comcast user, I would love to get a 20/20 from comcast, verizon or any provider at the current verizon price point. And yes, I would abuse it. But I don't know how many of us there are that a willing to cough up >$60 for high bandwidth internet access. Obviously not enough for someone to overbuild my area and offer up ridiculous speed and super cheap prices 
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PGHammer
join:2003-06-09
Accokeek, MD
clubs:
·Comcast
| Comcast has their Blast! users (this is Comcast's top-end CHSI offering); however, even FIOS 15//2 puts a major hurt on Blast! (in fact, it's faster than Blast! in both directions, and for less); 15/15 leaves Blast! choking on fumes. The price difference between 15/2 and 15/15 is $10/month; telecommuters (especially with the high cost of gasoline) would *gladly* pay that as opposed to spending more at the pump.
Further, someone mentioned that VZ is not a national player; that is indeed true. However, Comcast's core customers are smack in VZ's footprint (VA, MD, DE, PA, NJ, NY). VZ is already having a serious effect on Comcast (cable-TV and CHSI churn are way up, and those six states are responsible for most of that increased churn), and it's showing in Comcast's stock price (increased VoIP sales are all well and good, but cable TV, and, to an extent, HSI, are Comcast's bread-and-butter businesses). The investors are already screaming about that increased churn, and Comcast *must* figure out how to address it. Churn is only good if you're a dairy. | |
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MrUmbra
@verizon.net
| How? If you go to the Verizon DSL forum, it's riddled with posts like 'DSL slow in Queens' .. 'Service poor in [your place here]'. Heck they can't supply advertised service for their low bandwidth DSL customers. How will they maintain even higher speed over FIOS?
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sometimesstp5150
@cox.net | Verizon Overlords While I'm nnot a fan of this evil empire, I would gladly welcome them into my home if they offered ANY service in my area. | |
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tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Floral Park, NY
| Competition on own terms.. This mirrors what Verizon has done in the Video arena as well.. releasing what some can say is HIGHER priced services under specific conditions and will have some margin of success with it... but to say it's apples to apples competition is really seeing this through ROSE COLORED GLASSES. Cablemodem speeds will likely remain a hybrid node & asymmetrical speed until Docsis 3.0 and further deep fiber upgrades are driven by customer demand, not some company that rolls out a symmetrical broadband service at a higher price. FIOS is not everywhere, but the advertising gloves have come off in major markets where its slowly being rolled out. Major metro areas are seeing broadcast TV advertising which still have vast areas UNSERVED and not likely to be served for YEARS TO COME if your that unlucky to be on the wrong side of the redlining fence.
The one thing it changes is the landscape of BUSINESS grade pricing when residential pricing can get so "LOW" on an unlimited symmetrical connection, this will put downward pressure on those QOS "T" and "DS" circuits they still sell for gobs of money. | |
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| tlcbob
join:2001-07-11
Harrisburg, PA | Re: Even better results... You know what is interesting. If you look at the graph, it seems that Verizon compensates delays with a spike in download speed. Does anyone else notice that or can anyone explain that? If that is the case, that is pretty fair on their part. | |
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N O Y B
St. John 3.16
join:2005-12-15
Forest Grove, OR | Personally I Would Rather Have 10/5
5/2 to 15/2 or 15/15 is too big of a gap.
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halfband
Premium
join:2002-06-01
Huntsville, AL
·Comcast
| Re: Personally I Would Rather Have 10/5 15/15 for the power users who know what 15/15 means, and for those who have enough money to buy it because they now that 15>5 but will never make use of it. That is what, about 20% or the market?
5/2 for everyone else who still has not really maxed out 3M/386K. 15/2 seems to be the odd one out in the mix.
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mdembski
join:2001-04-04
Washington, DC | cherry picking But of course Verizon is cherry picking the easy installation areas and leaving the majority of people unable to get FIOS. Of course Verizon FIOS can beat cable on price, they only go where installation is easy and cheap | |
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Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ | Re: cherry picking And cable didn't when it was first deployed? | |
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| ITALIAN926
join:2003-08-16
Stratford, CT | Youre a 'tard . | |
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Rob A
Jets 19 - Steelers 16
Premium
join:2005-01-17
Pompton Plains, NJ | Awesome! But it doesn't do me any good if fios ain't available! Whats the hold up? | |
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TheHelpful1
Premium
join:2002-01-11
Upper Marlboro, MD
·EarthLink
| Unreal Checking the Verizon FIOS page, I can't help but have that little voice in my head do the Unreal Tournament announcer voice when reading 15/15 $65 and having it say "Holy S***"
For just $15 more than what I pay now for 3mbps/768 it is quite tempting. What holds me back is I sort of feel like I'm joining the evil empire.
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Symmetrical FiOS Expansion Official
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