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Symmetrical FiOS Expansion Official
Verizon: cable can't touch this...
We've been noting since Friday that Verizon has expanded their symmetrical 15-20Mbps FiOS tiers into additional markets. The company finally makes it official this morning by issuing a press release. The speeds, prices and launch information were exactly as our helpful insider stated, with variations depending on your State. From the folks at big red:
quote:
Starting today, Verizon is offering its high-speed symmetrical FiOS Internet services to consumers in 16 states served by its advanced, all-fiber-optic network. The symmetrical services make possible equally fast downstream and upstream connections of up to 15 megabits per second (Mbps) or up to 20 Mbps depending on the state where the service is sold.
The company calls the symmetrical offering "a bold strategic move that Verizon's cable competitors simply cannot match."
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backness
join:2005-07-08
K2P OW2

backness

Member

Cable fan boys....

be afraid...
be very afraid...

Matt3
All noise, no signal.
Premium Member
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC

Matt3

Premium Member

Re: Cable fan boys....

said by backness:

be afraid...
be very afraid...
Not quite yet, cable is still more widely deployed and can always compete on price rather than speed.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium Member
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

pnh102

Premium Member

Re: Cable fan boys....

said by Matt3:

Not quite yet, cable is still more widely deployed and can always compete on price rather than speed.
When was the last time cable lowered prices?

I wouldn't mind if cable did make the improvements necessary to catch up with Verizon, even if it meant a price hike. If Verizon can snatch more customers from cable as a result of this service, it will provide a huge incentive for cable to improve things.

The funny part is that earlier in this decade, cable was killing Verizon by deploying broadband to places that could not get DSL.

Matt3
All noise, no signal.
Premium Member
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC

Matt3

Premium Member

Re: Cable fan boys....

I didn't say they WOULD lower prices ... I said they COULD. It's the only thing I can see them doing because even with DOCSIS 3.0 ... they won't be able to match most FiOS offerings.

They could also just not care. I have a BPON fiber connection from a regional ILEC and Time Warner hasn't raised the speeds nor lowered their pricing to compete.

DaveDude
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey

DaveDude

Member

Re: Cable fan boys....

said by Matt3:

I didn't say they WOULD lower prices ... I said they COULD. It's the only thing I can see them doing because even with DOCSIS 3.0 ... they won't be able to match most FiOS offerings.

They could also just not care. I have a BPON fiber connection from a regional ILEC and Time Warner hasn't raised the speeds nor lowered their pricing to compete.
But most cable still have a bit a leeway, even with docsis 1, they can do 10/10. With DS3, they can do 100/100. But the market hasnt drawn speeds that high yet. I would be happy if 25/25 were standard its more then i will ever need, and i would rather a low latency network, then to 100/100 high latency

Matt3
All noise, no signal.
Premium Member
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC

Matt3

Premium Member

Re: Cable fan boys....

said by DaveDude:
said by Matt3:

I didn't say they WOULD lower prices ... I said they COULD. It's the only thing I can see them doing because even with DOCSIS 3.0 ... they won't be able to match most FiOS offerings.

They could also just not care. I have a BPON fiber connection from a regional ILEC and Time Warner hasn't raised the speeds nor lowered their pricing to compete.
But most cable still have a bit a leeway, even with docsis 1, they can do 10/10. With DS3, they can do 100/100. But the market hasnt drawn speeds that high yet. I would be happy if 25/25 were standard its more then i will ever need, and i would rather a low latency network, then to 100/100 high latency
DOCSIS 1 can't do 10Mbps to an individual cable modem unless they put an individual cable modem on its own node. The maximum the Business Class folks even offer over a cable modem is 2Mbps here. If you want more upstream you have to purchase fiber from them.

halfband
Premium Member
join:2002-06-01
Huntsville, AL

halfband

Premium Member

Re: Cable fan boys....

said by Matt3:

DOCSIS 1 can't do 10Mbps to an individual cable modem unless they put an individual cable modem on its own node. The maximum the Business Class folks even offer over a cable modem is 2Mbps here. If you want more upstream you have to purchase fiber from them.
Docsis 1 is 10Mbps per channel. There can be multiple channels on a node. The channels are further split by slots, but of course that gets into shared bandwidth.

Matt3
All noise, no signal.
Premium Member
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC

Matt3

Premium Member

Re: Cable fan boys....

said by halfband:
said by Matt3:

DOCSIS 1 can't do 10Mbps to an individual cable modem unless they put an individual cable modem on its own node. The maximum the Business Class folks even offer over a cable modem is 2Mbps here. If you want more upstream you have to purchase fiber from them.
Docsis 1 is 10Mbps per channel. There can be multiple channels on a node. The channels are further split by slots, but of course that gets into shared bandwidth.
You are correct, my apologies for using the incorrect terminology.

They still aren't going to allocate an entire channel for one customer ... even with oversubscription it's doubtful.

Fubar16
join:2001-02-20
Phoenix, AZ

Fubar16 to Matt3

Member

to Matt3
These 15/15 or 20/20 tiers are going to be attractive to 5-10% of the users only....

Everyone else, the casual family using the internet, moms and pops looking at grandkids pictures aren't going to care...

Plus it will get all the "heavy" users off of cable so that it is more enjoyable for the rest of us....
backness
join:2005-07-08
K2P OW2

1 recommendation

backness

Member

Re: Cable fan boys....

...and a computer only needs 640k memory

Ebolla
join:2005-09-28
Dracut, MA

Ebolla

Member

Re: Cable fan boys....

he said attractive to a small % of people. he didnt say that a higher speed is not needed or unusable.
ashworth7
join:2001-10-06
Pittsburgh, PA

ashworth7 to Fubar16

Member

to Fubar16
The strategic point is that VZ can do it, and cable can not within the foreseeable future. This is a marketing ploy to cater to the 5-6% of actual users that will upgrade to the service, hopefully to improve that number to say 15-20%. This symmetrical service is designed to differentiate itself from cable or anything else for that matter....I think it does that.
maximvs64
join:2007-11-13
Davidsonville, MD

maximvs64 to Fubar16

Member

to Fubar16
To further your point, most people would be content with 1.5/768. People hear the speeds and want it whether or not they actually need it. Bragging rights at the water cooler kind of thing. Comcast advertisements compare speeds with DSL all the time in my area. Most of my neighbors have switched over to FiOS since it became available recently and maybe 10% of them at best use anywhere that bandwidth.
Jonbo298
join:2004-01-12
Council Bluffs, IA

Jonbo298 to Matt3

Member

to Matt3
said by Matt3:

said by backness:

be afraid...
be very afraid...
Not quite yet, cable is still more widely deployed and can always compete on price rather than speed.
The sad part, is that you sound like telco's when DSL was becoming more widespread. "But...but...we have price!" Oh how the times have changed

cdru
Go Colts
MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN

cdru to Matt3

MVM

to Matt3
said by Matt3:

said by backness:

be afraid...
be very afraid...
Not quite yet, cable is still more widely deployed and can always compete on price rather than speed.
Yeah. Dialup said the same thing.

Matt3
All noise, no signal.
Premium Member
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC

Matt3

Premium Member

Re: Cable fan boys....

said by cdru:
said by Matt3:
said by backness:

be afraid...
be very afraid...
Not quite yet, cable is still more widely deployed and can always compete on price rather than speed.
Yeah. Dialup said the same thing.
Ok, I'll bite.

Are you kidding me? Cable can compete on downstream speed, the only area they CAN'T compete is upstream speed.

Comparing Cable to dialup is a bit of a stretch. Especially in comparison to a product only a very, VERY, small portion of the country will even have the opportunity to get.

whatever78 to backness

Anon

to backness
said by backness:

be afraid...
be very afraid...
Why, this is in the USA, not ontario...Although they should expand to canada instead of europe.
Methadras
join:2004-05-26
Spring Valley, CA

Methadras to backness

Member

to backness
said by backness:

be afraid...
be very afraid...
of what...? i'm in cox land and i'll never see verizon fios in my area... ever... so i'm not really going to cry over something i never had to begin with... i'd like to see fios offered, but it won't happen...

bcronin
Premium Member
join:2004-03-27
Hyde Park, NY

bcronin to backness

Premium Member

to backness
Irrelevant. Its not available here. Case closed (for now) ...

v35_pilot
Whoops, there goes another AMU
Premium Member
join:2005-12-12
Fayetteville, NY

2 edits

v35_pilot

Premium Member

Speed test shows not quite there yet

Received the press release today and attempted a speed test on my 20/5 FiOS connection. Not quite there yet, I noticed, as I am still seeing a 5mbps upload speed in upstate NY.

Edit: After reading the press release more closely, I see now that this service requires purchasing the upgrade. At first glance I thought it was included in all packages.

pflog
Bueller? Bueller?
MVM
join:2001-09-01
El Dorado Hills, CA

pflog

MVM

Business customers not mentioned (not surprised)

I was hoping to see a blurb in there about these speeds coming to business customers in the future, but no such luck. :/

JasonD
@comcast.net

1 recommendation

JasonD

Anon

Just wait...........

Symmetrical speeds at the level VZ is now dishing out will only end badly. Bitorrent users and other abusers will be drawn to this like flies to honey, not to mention every black hat would love to have 20/20 machines at their disposal. So count on plenty of intrusion attacks.

Again, this is gonna end badly. There's just no way VZ can afford to offer this to residential users.

Matt3
All noise, no signal.
Premium Member
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC

1 recommendation

Matt3

Premium Member

Re: Just wait...........

said by JasonD :

Symmetrical speeds at the level VZ is now dishing out will only end badly. Bitorrent users and other abusers will be drawn to this like flies to honey, not to mention every black hat would love to have 20/20 machines at their disposal. So count on plenty of intrusion attacks.

Again, this is gonna end badly. There's just no way VZ can afford to offer this to residential users.
That sounds like the exact kind of drivel that was spewed when high speed modems became available.

They have the backbone network in place to support it as well. Have you ever looked at their network? It's pretty impressive: »www.verizonbusiness.com/ ··· aps.fxml

wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY

wifi4milez

Member

Re: Just wait...........

said by Matt3:

They have the backbone network in place to support it as well. Have you ever looked at their network? It's pretty impressive: »www.verizonbusiness.com/ ··· aps.fxml
Well, technically the link you just provided is the old MCI (uunet) backbone, NOT Verizon (LEC). Verizon Business = MCI, and although the companies both have "Verizon" in their name they have, and maintain, completely different networks. Verizon (LEC) = NYNEX, and FIOS is being offered by that group. Verizon (LEC) has no international reach at all, they are simply the old Bell affiliate here on the (primarily) East Coast. Its quite confusing, but you really need to look at the two as totally separate companies. They actually still compete with one another for business in major markets.
Gogo1
join:2004-05-27
Brooklyn, NY

Gogo1 to JasonD

Member

to JasonD
said by JasonD :

Symmetrical speeds at the level VZ is now dishing out will only end badly for Comcast.
Fixed your post.

halfband
Premium Member
join:2002-06-01
Huntsville, AL

1 recommendation

halfband

Premium Member

Re: Just wait...........

said by Gogo1:
said by JasonD :

Symmetrical speeds at the level VZ is now dishing out will only end badly for Comcast.
Fixed your post.
If Verizon would deploy FIOS through more of the Comcast area that might be true. For all of us in Att/BS or other areas, Verizon is not even a player. Looks like the actual FIOS-Comcast overlap is small enough that Comcast does very little if anything about it.
gaforces (banned)
United We Stand, Divided We Fall
join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA

gaforces (banned) to JasonD

Member

to JasonD
Click for full size
Just wait ...
Im waiting ... »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th ··· fable%29

HotRodFoto
Premium Member
join:2003-04-19
Denver, CO

HotRodFoto to JasonD

Premium Member

to JasonD
said by JasonD :

Symmetrical speeds at the level VZ is now dishing out will only end badly. Bitorrent users and other abusers will be drawn to this like flies to honey, not to mention every black hat would love to have 20/20 machines at their disposal. So count on plenty of intrusion attacks.

Again, this is gonna end badly. There's just no way VZ can afford to offer this to residential users.
They can afford to do it when everyone who uses Comcast in their region where this is offered at is jumping ship in a heartbeat! I know I sure as hell would, if it was ever offered in Colorado.

Cjaiceman
MVM
join:2004-10-12
Castle Rock, WA
(Software) pfSense
Ubiquiti UniFi UAP-AC-PRO

Cjaiceman

MVM

Re: Just wait...........

I know I would jump all over that 15/15 so fast. This would be soooo much better than the 8000/768 I get from Comcast now. Qwest isn't even an option because their 7Mb/sec is good, but for the same price the 8 from Comcast does much better. I'm not holding by breath for Qwest to do ANYTHING fiber related in the near future.

danclan
join:2005-11-01
Midlothian, VA

danclan to JasonD

Member

to JasonD
said by JasonD :

Symmetrical speeds at the level VZ is now dishing out will only end badly. Bitorrent users and other abusers will be drawn to this like flies to honey, not to mention every black hat would love to have 20/20 machines at their disposal. So count on plenty of intrusion attacks.

Again, this is gonna end badly. There's just no way VZ can afford to offer this to residential users.
seriously...when you look in a mirror...do you see stupid people?

This is such utter nonsense...Verizon is already testing 100GBPS over single light stream over fiber. There is no bandwidth shortage. Bittorrent is not the end of the world. Every year some other asshat proclaims the internet will end due to some other new technology...well its still here and still growing.

The black hats truly have better things to do that scan verizon..script kiddies will always be around and there is NO shortage of intrusion attempts today...more bandwidth wont change that. I guess all those 100mbfd connections in europe and asia are TEAMING with danger! WILL ALL THE US BASED BLACK HATS PLEASE MOVE TO EUROPE...OR ASIA...thank you....that is all...
majortom1029
join:2006-10-19
Medford, NY

majortom1029

Member

why

If fios is so great why doesnt every verizon state have 20/20 why is it some states only get 15/15?

ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium Member
join:2005-03-14
Woodstock, CT

ptrowski

Premium Member

Sandvine free!

I am waiting for the usual crew to come in talking abotu how much better Comcast is, how bad telco's (specifically AT&T) are, and how Comcast cures all the world's ills.

At least FiOS is Sandvine free.

•••

MrUmbra
@verizon.net

MrUmbra

Anon

How?

If you go to the Verizon DSL forum, it's riddled with posts like 'DSL slow in Queens' .. 'Service poor in [your place here]'. Heck they can't supply advertised service for their low bandwidth DSL customers. How will they maintain even higher speed over FIOS?

--- CHAS

••••••••

sometimesstp5150

Anon

Verizon Overlords

While I'm nnot a fan of this evil empire, I would gladly welcome them into my home if they offered ANY service in my area.
tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY

tmc8080

Member

Competition on own terms..

This mirrors what Verizon has done in the Video arena as well.. releasing what some can say is HIGHER priced services under specific conditions and will have some margin of success with it... but to say it's apples to apples competition is really seeing this through ROSE COLORED GLASSES. Cablemodem speeds will likely remain a hybrid node & asymmetrical speed until Docsis 3.0 and further deep fiber upgrades are driven by customer demand, not some company that rolls out a symmetrical broadband service at a higher price. FIOS is not everywhere, but the advertising gloves have come off in major markets where its slowly being rolled out. Major metro areas are seeing broadcast TV advertising which still have vast areas UNSERVED and not likely to be served for YEARS TO COME if your that unlucky to be on the wrong side of the redlining fence.

The one thing it changes is the landscape of BUSINESS grade pricing when residential pricing can get so "LOW" on an unlimited symmetrical connection, this will put downward pressure on those QOS "T" and "DS" circuits they still sell for gobs of money.
tlcbob
join:2001-07-11
Harrisburg, PA

tlcbob

Member

Even better results...

It seems like BBR's tests can not handle these high speeds well.

This was from myspeed.visualware.com:

»msiad.visualware.com/mys ··· =7769055
tlcbob

tlcbob

Member

Re: Even better results...

You know what is interesting. If you look at the graph, it seems that Verizon compensates delays with a spike in download speed. Does anyone else notice that or can anyone explain that? If that is the case, that is pretty fair on their part.

NOYB
St. John 3.16
Premium Member
join:2005-12-15
Forest Grove, OR

NOYB

Premium Member

Personally I Would Rather Have 10/5


5/2 to 15/2 or 15/15 is too big of a gap.


halfband
Premium Member
join:2002-06-01
Huntsville, AL

halfband

Premium Member

Re: Personally I Would Rather Have 10/5

15/15 for the power users who know what 15/15 means, and for those who have enough money to buy it because they now that 15>5 but will never make use of it. That is what, about 20% or the market?
5/2 for everyone else who still has not really maxed out 3M/386K. 15/2 seems to be the odd one out in the mix.
SGR
Premium Member
join:2003-05-19
East Berlin, PA

SGR

Premium Member

Gotta love FiOS

»msiad.visualware.com/mys ··· =7770059
mdembski
join:2001-04-04
Washington, DC

mdembski

Member

cherry picking

But of course Verizon is cherry picking the easy installation areas and leaving the majority of people unable to get FIOS. Of course Verizon FIOS can beat cable on price, they only go where installation is easy and cheap

Jodokast96
Stupid people piss me off.
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
NJ

Jodokast96

Premium Member

Re: cherry picking

And cable didn't when it was first deployed?

ITALIAN926
join:2003-08-16

ITALIAN926 to mdembski

Member

to mdembski
Youre a 'tard .

Rob A
Adjusting
Premium Member
join:2005-01-17
Pompton Plains, NJ

Rob A

Premium Member

Awesome!

But it doesn't do me any good if fios ain't available! Whats the hold up?

TheHelpful1
Premium Member
join:2002-01-11
Upper Marlboro, MD

TheHelpful1

Premium Member

Unreal

Checking the Verizon FIOS page, I can't help but have that little voice in my head do the Unreal Tournament announcer voice when reading 15/15 $65 and having it say "Holy S***"

For just $15 more than what I pay now for 3mbps/768 it is quite tempting. What holds me back is I sort of feel like I'm joining the evil empire.