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T-Mobile Also Offloading Smartphone Traffic To Wi-Fi
With A Little Help From Kineto Wireless & Smart Wi-Fi Android

AT&T has been busy over the last year offloading smartphone traffic to Wi-Fi hotzones, which they've launched in parts of New York City, Chicago, Charlotte, and San Francisco. T-Mobile has quietly been busily doing the same thing -- albeit somewhat differently. Kineto Wireless, the company that supplies the unlicensed mobile access (UMA) technology for T-Mobile’s hotspot@home fixed mobile convergence (FMC) service, has a program dubbed Smart Wi-Fi Android that T-Mobile has been installing on many handsets. The app basically extends hotspot@home SMS-, voice- and data offload features to any accessible WiFi access point, removing millions of voice conversations, text messages and megabytes of data traffic from the operator’s macro network to the Internet, notes Connected Planet.

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dorksaber
join:2009-02-16
Lexington, MI

dorksaber

Member

Yeeeeaaahhh

My G2 still eats minutes even on Wifi. And the UMA drops several times a day requiring a reboot to regain access.

pende_tim
Premium Member
join:2004-01-04
Selbyville, DE

pende_tim

Premium Member

Any Wi-Fi Hotspot?

Suppose the guy dwn the street has an open Wi-Fi connection. As I drive past, my T-Mobile phone connects to his network as one of the "any accessible WiFi access point". Have I just broken the law?

Tim
jagged
join:2003-07-01
Boynton Beach, FL

jagged

Member

Re: Any Wi-Fi Hotspot?

the way i've noticed it works on my Vibrant is when WiFi connection is present and I have the app enabled voice calls will go trough the Wifi connection by default. But my Vibrant doesn't connect to just any Wifi hotspot.

Ben
Premium Member
join:2007-06-17
Fort Worth, TX

Ben to pende_tim

Premium Member

to pende_tim
said by pende_tim:

Suppose the guy dwn the street has an open Wi-Fi connection. As I drive past, my T-Mobile phone connects to his network as one of the "any accessible WiFi access point". Have I just broken the law?

Tim

     Yes, because it's unauthorized network use.  Although you probably wouldn't get caught.

i1me2ao
Premium Member
join:2001-03-03
TEXAS

i1me2ao

Premium Member

Re: Any Wi-Fi Hotspot?

how?

Ben
Premium Member
join:2007-06-17
Fort Worth, TX

Ben

Premium Member

Re: Any Wi-Fi Hotspot?

said by i1me2ao:

how?

     The same way you can't run a long extension cord from an outlet outside your neighbor's house and use his electricity.  "Theft of service" I think it's called.

     Then again, someone pointed out that open Wi-Fi hot spots are different in that it's broadcast and effectively advertised as such.  However, when you see such a hot spot, you have to answer this question.  "Is the open hot spot the result of laziness/lack of technical proficiency, or was it on purpose?"  If you don't know, then it's best to assume the former and not use it.
ctggzg
Premium Member
join:2005-02-11
USA

ctggzg

Premium Member

Re: Any Wi-Fi Hotspot?

I think the question was about the grey area of phones connecting to open access points without the users' knowledge. But I'm pretty sure a carrier wouldn't enable questionable behavior out of the box.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4 to Ben

Member

to Ben
I don't see how Wi-Fi can be considered Theft of Service. Especially since the law does not include the Internet. Stealing electric or water or some other actual service of such from your neighbor yes; there are laws for that but NONE for Wireless Internet. It's very very touchy until laws are written to include this. Otherwise; anyone would be able get out of the issue if arrested and or sued if they have a hired an Atty. that knew how to argue what was on the books and what's not.

morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000

morbo to pende_tim

Member

to pende_tim
said by pende_tim:

Have I just broken the law?

Of course not.

SimbaSeven
I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT

SimbaSeven

Member

What's the point?

If they're offloading traffic to WiFi, why even bother to upgrade their infrastructure?

ArrayList
DevOps
Premium Member
join:2005-03-19
Mullica Hill, NJ

ArrayList

Premium Member

Re: What's the point?

if you can use your wifi to make calls then it helps improve deadspots. I use it at home because my house is a huge Faraday cage.

SimbaSeven
I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT
·StarLink

1 edit

SimbaSeven

Member

Re: What's the point?

..then what's the point of having a cell phone? Just get a Skype (or other VoIP provider) phone and use it.

It seems that no one gets my point. Sure, you can use voice on their network.. but no one notices that they really want you off their network and onto your own to use their service. Why the heck should I be charged by the minute when it's *MY* network? I can get better rates elsewhere.

It seems that they want you to buy their phone and plan.. but utilize your broadband to provide the service. Seems backwards to me.

EDIT: ..and don't tell me that "Well, they have to pay for the pipes somehow". They OWN the pipes. So, they charge you for your internet connection.. then charge you again to use your (ehm.. their) phone through your internet connection (which, ironically for some people, is the same provider).

Looks to me like they're double-dipping their customers.

pnjunction
Teksavvy Extreme
Premium Member
join:2008-01-24
Toronto, ON

pnjunction

Premium Member

Re: What's the point?

Not to support the current cell phone billing schemes and such but...

How well does Skype do hand-offs? Yeah...
ctggzg
Premium Member
join:2005-02-11
USA

ctggzg to SimbaSeven

Premium Member

to SimbaSeven
Your Wi-Fi calls don't go directly from one phone to another over the Internet. T-Mobile's network is still involved at some point. Maybe they should only charge for half the minutes or something like that.

ArrayList
DevOps
Premium Member
join:2005-03-19
Mullica Hill, NJ

ArrayList

Premium Member

Re: What's the point?

wifi calling uses an encrypted vpn tunnel to route the calls.
ArrayList

ArrayList to SimbaSeven

Premium Member

to SimbaSeven
If I don't use all my cell minutes as it is, then I would be wasting money if I paid for a second voice service.

When you make a call using wifi calling it only works if you subscribe to their service. I don't think you understand how it works.
Fishie
join:2003-01-14
Riverside, CA

Fishie

Member

Using my Minutes?

I really don't mind offloading cellular data to my Wi-Fi connection as long as T-Mobile doesn't bill for usage and my ISP doesn't switch to a metered billing plan.

rideboarder
welcome to the social
Premium Member
join:2003-07-28
Snohomish, WA

1 recommendation

rideboarder

Premium Member

Re: Using my Minutes?

In my opinion they should give you 10-20% off if you allow them to use your bandwith. But instead year after year prices go up.

ArrayList
DevOps
Premium Member
join:2005-03-19
Mullica Hill, NJ

ArrayList

Premium Member

Re: Using my Minutes?

my bill goes down because I tell them that I want it lower. So far they have done it.

Alcohol
Premium Member
join:2003-05-26
Climax, MI

Alcohol

Premium Member

Re: Using my Minutes?

said by ArrayList:

my bill goes down because I tell them that I want it lower. So far they have done it.

Did you ask nicely or threaten to quit? My parents have had tmobile since it was voicestream. I'll call for them and get their bill lowered. I've heard this before (tmobile lowering bill for loyal customers).

ArrayList
DevOps
Premium Member
join:2005-03-19
Mullica Hill, NJ

ArrayList

Premium Member

Re: Using my Minutes?

threatened to switch to verizon. stayed bc of superior customer service, i liked tmobiles phones more and $20/month lower bill
Ammler
Premium Member
join:2005-04-19
Pittsburgh, PA

Ammler

Premium Member

Is This Legal?

So AT&T and now T-Mobile are foisting there bandwidth needs on other providers? This is like software companies using bit torrent to distribute data, and relying on other peoples net connections (and bandwidth) to get the job done, but not paying a dime for said bandwidth.

If I was providing MY customers with a hot-spot, and I was paying for the connection, and possibly bandwidth usage, I would sure as hell not want another company free loading off my dime.

Isn't this also akin to a neighbor using your WiFi connection for free, and again, not paying a dime for it?

Ben
Premium Member
join:2007-06-17
Fort Worth, TX

Ben

Premium Member

Re: Is This Legal?

said by Ammler:

So AT&T and now T-Mobile are foisting there bandwidth needs on other providers? This is like software companies using bit torrent to distribute data, and relying on other peoples net connections (and bandwidth) to get the job done, but not paying a dime for said bandwidth.

If I was providing MY customers with a hot-spot, and I was paying for the connection, and possibly bandwidth usage, I would sure as hell not want another company free loading off my dime.

Isn't this also akin to a neighbor using your WiFi connection for free, and again, not paying a dime for it?

     I was under the impression that AT&T created their own Wi-Fi zones for this purpose, and the associated equipment was owned or leased by AT&T.

     If I understand what T-Mobile is doing, they're not even creating their own Wi-Fi zones, and just relying upon whatever open AP is available.

     Some believe that failure to secure one's AP should mean they deserve anything bad that could happen to them, though I disagree.  I do think that people should secure their wireless APs, but I also think people should lock their doors when they leave home.

     I look at it this way.  If someone fails to lock their house when they leave home, they run an increased risk of burglary.  However, is the burglar still committing a crime even though the door wasn't locked?  I think so.

     As for whether it's legal, it depends.  The functionality relies upon using a particular application for Android smart phones.  If the default setting is to not use Wi-Fi at all, requiring the user to set it up, then I'd say it's legal for T-Mobile to provide this.  In this case, the onus is upon the user to behave in a legal manner by only using authorized Wi-Fi hot spots.

     But if the default setting is to use any open Wi-Fi hot spot at all, then this is a class-action lawsuit waiting to happen.  Therefore, I would assume the default setting is to NOT use Wi-Fi.

VaderZero
@adt.com

VaderZero

Anon

Re: Is This Legal?

said by Ben:

said by Ammler:

So AT&T and now T-Mobile are foisting there bandwidth needs on other providers? This is like software companies using bit torrent to distribute data, and relying on other peoples net connections (and bandwidth) to get the job done, but not paying a dime for said bandwidth.

If I was providing MY customers with a hot-spot, and I was paying for the connection, and possibly bandwidth usage, I would sure as hell not want another company free loading off my dime.

Isn't this also akin to a neighbor using your WiFi connection for free, and again, not paying a dime for it?

     I was under the impression that AT&T created their own Wi-Fi zones for this purpose, and the associated equipment was owned or leased by AT&T.

     If I understand what T-Mobile is doing, they're not even creating their own Wi-Fi zones, and just relying upon whatever open AP is available.

     Some believe that failure to secure one's AP should mean they deserve anything bad that could happen to them, though I disagree.  I do think that people should secure their wireless APs, but I also think people should lock their doors when they leave home.

     I look at it this way.  If someone fails to lock their house when they leave home, they run an increased risk of burglary.  However, is the burglar still committing a crime even though the door wasn't locked?  I think so.

     As for whether it's legal, it depends.  The functionality relies upon using a particular application for Android smart phones.  If the default setting is to not use Wi-Fi at all, requiring the user to set it up, then I'd say it's legal for T-Mobile to provide this.  In this case, the onus is upon the user to behave in a legal manner by only using authorized Wi-Fi hot spots.

     But if the default setting is to use any open Wi-Fi hot spot at all, then this is a class-action lawsuit waiting to happen.  Therefore, I would assume the default setting is to NOT use Wi-Fi.

I disagree for this simple reason. When you leave your door unlocked, you aren't broadcasting to the world you did so. However, when you have an open wifi hotspot you are letting anyone who's listening know there is a available link to the internet.

Ben
Premium Member
join:2007-06-17
Fort Worth, TX

Ben

Premium Member

Re: Is This Legal?

said by VaderZero :

I disagree for this simple reason. When you leave your door unlocked, you aren't broadcasting to the world you did so. However, when you have an open wifi hotspot you are letting anyone who's listening know there is a available link to the internet.

     That's a good point.  Some people leave their Wi-Fi APs open on purpose, and not every open Wi-Fi AP is the result of laziness or lack of technical proficiency.
Expand your moderator at work
jcremin
join:2009-12-22
Siren, WI

jcremin to Ben

Member

to Ben

Re: Is This Legal?

said by Ben:

     If I understand what T-Mobile is doing, they're not even creating their own Wi-Fi zones, and just relying upon whatever open AP is available.

It's worth pointing out that the phones just don't randomly connect to any open wifi. You have to enable wifi, tell the phone to connect to it, and ensure that the call setting are set to route the calls through wifi before it will actually do so.

T-mobile is simply creating the software on the phone. It is up to the user to actually utilize it, therefore t-mobile isn't doing anything to "steal" anyone else's wifi connection. If it happens, it is purely the fault of the customer to told their phone to use an AP that they weren't authorize to use.

Ben
Premium Member
join:2007-06-17
Fort Worth, TX

Ben

Premium Member

Re: Is This Legal?

said by jcremin:

It's worth pointing out that the phones just don't randomly connect to any open wifi. You have to enable wifi, tell the phone to connect to it, and ensure that the call setting are set to route the calls through wifi before it will actually do so.

T-mobile is simply creating the software on the phone. It is up to the user to actually utilize it, therefore t-mobile isn't doing anything to "steal" anyone else's wifi connection. If it happens, it is purely the fault of the customer to told their phone to use an AP that they weren't authorize to use.

     Thank you for pointing this out.  It clears that up.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4 to jcremin

Member

to jcremin
very true. and you actually have to ENABLE the program. If you do NOT enable the Wifi Voice app it will not route calls that way. BUT if you have a strong enough cellular connection (at least currently) the service will NOT rely on wifi- it will go direct to the Cell Network. The phone knows what network to use and if it has access to the network.

clock
join:2007-05-02
Roslindale, MA

clock

Member

I'd rather have the option...

I've had this feature on my G2 for sometime. It's not something that's turned on by default and doesn't support handoffs between the GSM/3G network and wifi. IMO its a better option than the femtocells AT&T & Verizon have been charging people an arm and a leg for the privilege to use. 90% of the places I've been with no coverage have had wifi, so it helps in more places than a microcell would.
ricklerre
join:2009-06-22
Brooklyn, NY

ricklerre

Member

Re: I'd rather have the option...

Agreed. This is 100% better than a femtocell, no new hardware, and it helps lower the barrier to entry for small cell phone providers, since they can all tap into this type of software and "expand coverage".

ArrayList
DevOps
Premium Member
join:2005-03-19
Mullica Hill, NJ

ArrayList to clock

Premium Member

to clock
agreed. I have service in my basement when I never had it before.

unpundit
@rr.com

unpundit

Anon

Offloading indeed!

I can't believe the gall! Offloading their phone traffic onto another network and billing ME for it? I'll only use this when it makes the phone calls free....

•••
cliffordsnow
join:2002-01-03
Seattle, WA

cliffordsnow

Member

How do you configure your phone?

So how do you configure your phone to use wifi when connected? I use T-Mobile, but so far I haven't seen an sign that calls are being redirected to my wifi connection.

vibrant22
@comcastbusiness.net

vibrant22

Anon

Re: How do you configure your phone?

What kind of phone do you have?
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4 to cliffordsnow

Member

to cliffordsnow
Depends on the phone if its UMA or not. There are a very few select phones that have it and their is an application called Wi-fi Voice and you just click on that and it will set itself up and tell you what you need to do. it will ONLY work currently if the phone can NOT get access to the network via its regular antenna. As it travels between UMA and Cellular.
pinjas
join:2011-01-31
River Falls, WI

pinjas

Member

Screw the cell phone companies

Cell phone companies are pretty insane in what they charge, and their service does not impress me in the least. I haven't been in a town that didn't have some free wifi at a business and I am sure you can tag onto someones local stuff one way or another if you were smart. But beyond that, there is a simple way to circumvent the need for cell phones.

Beyond the absolutely obvious notion that you can merely come to the realization that there is no necessity to be persistently available for contact and that should an emergency arise and you are unable to take care of the problem a cell phone would be of little use as you would likely be unconscious.

Many companies have produced very small laptops. They are usually dubbed netbooks. For less than the cost of most of these 'high tech' cell phones, you can purchase a netbook that has excellent wifi capabilities. Next to that, there is the exciting aspect of performance. As some know, the greatest bang for your buck in processing performance comes from desktop machines. The smaller the device, generally speaking, the smaller the bang for your buck. With this and the emergence of wimax you can have yourself an outstanding wireless device with the hefty overhead cost of a cell phone. Of course, the drawback is that you need a slightly larger pocket to carry around a netbook, the lack of a contract makes that ball and chain a whole lot more attractive.
marinemaster
join:2004-04-12
Suwanee, GA

marinemaster

Member

Been using UMA for years

I have been using UMA for years with Tmobile. I don't know why the other carriers do not have it . I think is a great idea. You connect you phone to the home router or wifi and it goes to UMA. All your voice and data now use UMA. To give an example, few weeks back I did not connect my tmobile phone to my home router I was on EDGE and after talking 3 hours on the phone and hang up I started receiving emails. So no emails for 3 hours.

When I am on UMA as I usually am, I get my emails and all my voice calls. I think is a great piece of technology that needs to be used for all carriers.

I coworker traveled outside of USA to Africa and they used the BB Tmobile phone to call back to USA via UMA. Did not have to pay for roaming charges just like calling from USA.

Hopefully iphone 5 will have this built in.