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story category T-Mobile Drops 21 Mbps HSPA+ On Philly
Well, parts of philly anyway...
09:55AM Monday Sep 21 2009 by Karl Bode
tags: business · wireless · T-Mobile US
Tipped by Chaldo See Profile
Earlier this month we noted how T-Mobile was slowly starting to play catch up when it comes to deploying 3G wireless broadband services, and that they were planning to offer 21 Mbps HSPA+ services beginning in 2010. T-Mobile's apparently getting an early jump on that deployment with the news that the carrier has enabled HSPA+ in about twenty cell sites in the Philadelphia market. That's the first place in the United States that get to see the faster speeds, which T-Mobile calls a "very promising start." By contrast, AT&T is skipping 21 Mbps HSPA+ and jumping right to LTE, but at the moment are busy deploying faster 7.2 Mbps HSDPA technology first.

Related:
  1. T-Mobile Ditching Handset Upgrade Fee
  2. T-Mobile Cooking Up $50 Unlimited Voice Plan?
  3. Motorola Demonstrates LTE In Barcelona
  4. T-Mobile's Retention Pricing Goes Live
  5. New T-Mobile Loyal Customer Pricing Goes Live
  6. T-Mobile 3G Launch Schedule Leaked
  7. T-Mobile Quietly Reinstates Handset Upgrade Fee
  8. T-Mobile: 21 Mbps In 2010
Forums » T-Mobile Drops 21 Mbps HSPA+ On Philly
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n2jtx

join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY
·Optimum Online

1 edit

I Wonder Who Is Making The Better Move

LTE is the future but it is still, for the most part, a laboratory curiosity. HSDPA and HSPA+ are here now. AT&T may have the long term advantage going right to LTE but they are going to have to work out all the kinks. If T-Mobile succeeds with their HSPA+ deployments, their network may be in better shape than AT&T's until they get LTE worked out.

It may turn out to be a shrewd move on T-Mobile's part or a mistake. Only time will tell. VZW and AT&T can deal with the initial LTE headaches now.
--
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permalink · 2009-09-21 10:15:29 · Print · Reply to this

Gbcue
E.I.T.
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Santa Rosa, CA
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Re: I Wonder Who Is Making The Better Move

I believe it's just a software upgrade for the radios to go from their current speeds to HSPA+.
permalink · 2009-09-21 10:36:54 · Reply to this

toddbs98

join:2000-07-08
North Little Rock, AR
clubs:		 Now if T-Mobile could just get my voice mail to work.
permalink · 2009-09-21 11:13:40 · Reply to this
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable

 LTE is not the future yet. It's still only being "tested" and was only tested for a few months by VZW.

WiMaxx is where everything is right now. Sprint and Clear are the only ones that have a 4g network in the United States and they are promoting the hell out of that.

Everyone else is playing "oh if we wait we can still get customers because our technology will be newer" bull shit.

TM made a great move by putting HSPA+ out there as they'll offer faster speeds than anyone else except where Sprint has 4G.

TM is the only other carrier that is competing.
permalink · 2009-09-21 13:29:03 · Print · Reply to this

partysource

join:2000-11-25
Phoenix, AZ

Re: I Wonder Who Is Making The Better Move

I guess you haven't seen the Wimax (Clearwire) Reviews LMAO
Not even close to 2g speeds ha ha
permalink · 2009-09-21 13:33:53 · Reply to this

Time
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Re: I Wonder Who Is Making The Better Move

said by partysource See Profile :

I guess you haven't seen the Wimax (Clearwire) Reviews LMAO
Not even close to 2g speeds ha ha
permalink · 2009-09-21 14:28:59 · Reply to this
PapaMidnight

join:2009-01-13
Baltimore, MD

Re: I Wonder Who Is Making The Better Move

said by Time See Profile :

said by partysource See Profile :

I guess you haven't seen the Wimax (Clearwire) Reviews LMAO
Not even close to 2g speeds ha ha

I think Time wins this one
permalink · 2009-10-12 17:57:48 · Print · Reply to this
xenophon

join:2007-09-17
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
said by partysource See Profile :

I guess you haven't seen the Wimax (Clearwire) Reviews LMAO
Not even close to 2g speeds ha ha
Here are Clear mobile WiMAX and pre-Wimax results.

»/archive/clearwire-wmx.net

WiMAX *can* do over 5Mbps for some users. The challenge for all 4G carriers will be getting 5+Mbps for *most* users at a distance and with many sharing a site. That will take large backhaul at every site and mimo antennas in order for *most* users to get 5+Mbps. Until 4G matures, it will be hit and miss performance for a while unless you live within LOS of a site.
permalink · 2009-09-21 14:47:18 · Print · Reply to this

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
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Re: I Wonder Who Is Making The Better Move

Where WiMAX currently shines over T-Mo / HSPA+ (and others) is that it is currently available in a few markets, AND is geared directly for data usage.

T-Mobile HSPA+ (AT&T HSPA, VZW EVDO, Sprint EVDO) are primarily geared at mobile handsets. WiMAX does have an advantage of being first out of the gate, and covering areas that many typical 3G carriers don't typically like to support (rural areas) as well as not having those obsurd caps.
permalink · 2009-09-21 18:31:12 · Reply to this
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH		 Reviews on this website doesn't count.
permalink · 2009-09-21 23:11:13 · Reply to this

Gbcue
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Re: I Wonder Who Is Making The Better Move

said by hottboiinnc See Profile :

Reviews on this website doesn't count.
Why?
permalink · 2009-09-21 23:45:07 · Reply to this
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: I Wonder Who Is Making The Better Move

because it doesn't give justice. you don't have everyone on here reviewing companies and their services. Instead its a handful of people and you can't give a company complete review on less than 1/8th of the customer base.
permalink · 2009-09-22 07:52:27 · Reply to this

Gbcue
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Re: I Wonder Who Is Making The Better Move

said by hottboiinnc See Profile :

because it doesn't give justice. you don't have everyone on here reviewing companies and their services. Instead its a handful of people and you can't give a company complete review on less than 1/8th of the customer base.
So where would be a valid place to get free reviews?

Are you going to send a letter to every WiMax customer for me for free?
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permalink · 2009-09-22 10:16:59 · Print · Reply to this

sapo
I eat meat
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Sacramento, CA		 Haha, how do you think statistics and polls work. By asking every single person? no, never with something this large. A sample is a perfectly fine representation of a company.
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DO DO
permalink · 2009-10-12 17:08:32 · Reply to this
bemis

join:2008-07-18
Stoneham, MA
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 I think that T-Mo is making a good decision jumping directly to 21Mbps--they just need to get it rolled out in advance of any solid dates from VZ or AT&T on LTE, in the case of AT&T that should be a no brainer, but not necessarily w/ VZ ...

Mix in a potential end to AT&T exclusivity w/ the iPhone + the "Google Phone" already on their network and the prospect of a GSM/HSPA+ Palm Pre and T-Mo could easily be positioned to have a lock with high speed and business users in the USA. I certainly would go with them.

The biggest draw back to VZ phones is the lack of global interoperability except where you are able to get a model that includes a SIM slot and full GSM/GPRS radio set, which are useless to you in the US. Now we're considering 1xRTT/EVDO/LTE/GSM/GPRS hybrid for a global VZ phone? Blech.

Is LTE going to be the next global standard? That's another question--if HSPA+ @ 21Mbps speeds is going to be the world standard for the next 5 years or so, then T-Mo has advantage there as handset producers will continue to produce GSM first, then EVDO (and now LTE) later. Additionally we shouldn't forget that T-Mo is owned by Deutch Telecom, so they may be able to leverage buying power and/or installation knowledge w/ the 21Mbps HSPA+
permalink · 2009-09-21 13:31:07 · Print · Reply to this

tubbynet
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compatibility...?

do all phones that att or tmo sells support the new hspa+ upgrades? i'd be reasonably certain that the chipsets have been around, just the carriers never got around to deploying it, but, i have been wrong in the past.

q.
--
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permalink · 2009-09-21 10:22:31 · Reply to this

Gbcue
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Re: compatibility...?

said by tubbynet See Profile :

do all phones that att or tmo sells support the new hspa+ upgrades? i'd be reasonably certain that the chipsets have been around, just the carriers never got around to deploying it, but, i have been wrong in the past.

q.
The newer WinMo phones (TP2), G1, and MT3G should see speed boosts.
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permalink · 2009-09-21 10:36:21 · Print · Reply to this
MightyPez

join:2002-05-01
Saint Paul, MN
·Comcast

Re: compatibility...?

Good to know. I enjoy using my G1 and higher speeds would be gravy.

I wonder if they have a deployment schedule? I remember my area (Minneapolis/St. Paul) was one of the first areas to receive the 3G updates. I'm hoping they roll out hspa+ updates soon.
permalink · 2009-09-21 10:44:08 · Reply to this

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA		 These devices only support up to 7.2Mbps, so there should be real increase, unless there's an issue with overall capacity.
--
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permalink · 2009-09-21 12:00:12 · Reply to this

morbo
Complete Your Transaction

join:2002-01-22
00000
clubs:

Learned from AT&T's mistake

T-Mobile is catching up, and I think this is a smart move for them. They have seen the problems AT&T has had with the iPhone and are already deploying 21 Mbps HSPA+ in preparation for the coming onslaught of smart phone users, before users notice.
permalink · 2009-09-21 10:34:27 · Reply to this

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME

1 edit

Re: Learned from AT&T's mistake

I think its less for smartphones (doubtful that we'll see too many 21Mbps phones, let alone 14.4Mbps). Datacards are where the 'big' difference will be.

Since T-Mobile's currentl deployment is relatively small, there's no reason to not deploy HSPA+ 21Mbps.
permalink · 2009-09-21 18:36:42 · Reply to this
BosstonesOwn

join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:

sweet !!

This is yet another reason for me to start looking at Tmobile.

Im starting to really hate verizon.
--
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permalink · 2009-09-21 10:52:42 · Reply to this
xenophon

join:2007-09-17
·Sprint Mobile Broa..

Backhaul?

So they are rolling out the technology for 20Mbps+ but will the backhaul really be there? Is the spectrum even there to technically pull that off?

ATT says they are rolling out 7.2M but they don't seem to have the backhaul. No one is posting performance above 3Mbps, no different than first round of 3G.

I also don't see how 10Mbps+ will be consistent over much distance without MIMO antennas.

These high speed 3G speeds claimed sound more like marketing than substance. WiMAX providers were at least wise enough to market real world performance rather than lab performance with ideal conditions. Current WiMAX devices technically can do 15Mbps+ in ideal conditions but they are not marketed that way.
permalink · 2009-09-21 11:04:36 · Print · Reply to this

tiger72
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Re: Backhaul?

said by xenophon See Profile :

So they are rolling out the technology for 20Mbps+ but will the backhaul really be there? Is the spectrum even there to technically pull that off?

ATT says they are rolling out 7.2M but they don't seem to have the backhaul. No one is posting performance above 3Mbps, no different than first round of 3G.
I doubt the backhaul is there yet. I would wager that they're upgrading the radios first, and that they're going to upgrade the backhauls later. It's cheaper for them to wait on the backhauls til the usage really increases...

As far as spectrum goes, they have enough to work with in the AWS band. They have at least 20mhz, and up to 30mhz in many markets.
I also don't see how 10Mbps+ will be consistent over much distance without MIMO antennas.

These high speed 3G speeds claimed sound more like marketing than substance. WiMAX providers were at least wise enough to market real world performance rather than lab performance with ideal conditions. Current WiMAX devices technically can do 15Mbps+ in ideal conditions but they are not marketed that way.
WiMAX doesn't even need to advertise speed - people will infer that whenever WiMAX advertises "4g". We all know that 3mbps is 3g. People assume that wimax is substantially faster, even when real world speeds currently are only around 4-6mbps...

That said, until there are mimo phones to take advantage of HSPA+, this upgrade is really just future-proofing.
--
"What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning."
-United States Secretary of Defense (1961-1968) Robert S. McNamara
permalink · 2009-09-21 11:14:00 · Print · Reply to this
xenophon

join:2007-09-17
·Sprint Mobile Broa..

Re: Backhaul?

Yea, methinks these 3G upgrades are about managing more users per site, to sustain 1-3Mbps for a larger number of users, rather than to provide much higher performance per user. I'll be surprised to see if they (HSPA providers) allow much more than 3Mbps per user in the end.

Higher performance per user is where 4G comes into play - and the logistics to pull that off is even greater.
permalink · 2009-09-21 12:14:57 · Reply to this

djdanska
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Re: Backhaul?

said by xenophon See Profile :

Yea, methinks these 3G upgrades are about managing more users per site, to sustain 1-3Mbps for a larger number of users, rather than to provide much higher performance per user. I'll be surprised to see if they (HSPA providers) allow much more than 3Mbps per user in the end.

Higher performance per user is where 4G comes into play - and the logistics to pull that off is even greater.
Well, it looks like they are capping the download where i am at. I hit 1.2 meg and it just sits there. Everywhere i go, 24/7, i get a little over 1 meg down. It's possible that they only have one t1 for 3g but even in downtown chicago, same cap. And i am fairly sure downtown chicago has more than 1 t1 per cell.
--
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permalink · 2009-09-21 12:52:48 · Print · Reply to this

ViviTheMage
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ha

T-Mobile needs a bigger data footprint. It's really pathetic. AT&T's is great, and have had no issues with them since I got my iphone 3GS.
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permalink · 2009-09-21 12:11:40 · Reply to this
xenophon

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Re: ha

said by ViviTheMage See Profile :

T-Mobile needs a bigger data footprint. It's really pathetic. AT&T's is great, and have had no issues with them since I got my iphone 3GS.
I'd call ATT 3G footprint 'good' but not great compared to Sprint/Verizon 3G footprint.
permalink · 2009-09-21 12:16:36 · Reply to this

tiger72
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said by ViviTheMage See Profile :

T-Mobile needs a bigger data footprint. It's really pathetic. AT&T's is great, and have had no issues with them since I got my iphone 3GS.
Considering TMO is rolling out new 3g in a city every 1.6 days, i'd say their "pathetic" footprint will be very different, very soon. Considering they're 3 YEARS late to the 3g game (thanks federal govt!), and their 3g network is already about 65% the size of ATT's, there's no reason to indicate that by this time next year, T-Mobile's 3g coverage will be any less than ATT's - if not better. Hell, just today, their twitter page announced another 3 cities - Peoria, IL, Bloomington, IL, and Lancaster, PA.
--
"What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning."
-United States Secretary of Defense (1961-1968) Robert S. McNamara
permalink · 2009-09-21 15:34:17 · Print · Reply to this

Jovi

join:2000-02-24
Mount Joy, PA

Re: ha

SWEET! Now all I need is the Blackberry 9700 to come out and I'm all set.
--
"Some people have no respect for logic."
permalink · 2009-09-21 17:52:43 · Reply to this

Gbcue
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said by tiger72 See Profile :

said by ViviTheMage See Profile :

T-Mobile needs a bigger data footprint. It's really pathetic. AT&T's is great, and have had no issues with them since I got my iphone 3GS.
Considering TMO is rolling out new 3g in a city every 1.6 days, i'd say their "pathetic" footprint will be very different, very soon. Considering they're 3 YEARS late to the 3g game (thanks federal govt!), and their 3g network is already about 65% the size of ATT's, there's no reason to indicate that by this time next year, T-Mobile's 3g coverage will be any less than ATT's - if not better. Hell, just today, their twitter page announced another 3 cities - Peoria, IL, Bloomington, IL, and Lancaster, PA.
And those footprints when 3G is turned on is gigantic, not just a city, but most surrounding cities!
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permalink · 2009-09-21 21:56:26 · Print · Reply to this

schmol

join:2001-12-26
Windsor, PA		 I do believe most of Harrisburg and State college PA was also in that last deployment...
permalink · 2009-09-22 08:30:02 · Reply to this

tiger72
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 and a small update a mere 2 days later:
Raleigh, Durham, and Winston-Salem, NC; Greenville, SC; as well as Eastern and Northern San Diego County all got new 3g today.

Add those to the cities I posted about just 2 days ago, and you can clearly see that TMO definitely is getting/has it's stuff together when it comes to rolling out 3g.
--
"What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning."
-United States Secretary of Defense (1961-1968) Robert S. McNamara
permalink · 2009-09-23 16:31:38 · Print · Reply to this
djeremy

join:2004-07-12
San Francisco, CA

Already seeing good 3G speeds

My G1 usually gets between 1000-1500kbps here in SF, but I'll always take more
permalink · 2009-09-21 13:18:28 · Print · Reply to this
apok86

join:2006-09-09
Minneapolis, MN

speed test

So does anyone in philly have a speed test yet?
permalink · 2009-09-21 14:41:50 · Reply to this

SNT
Premium
join:2002-07-17
Satellite Beach, FL

{Sigh}

I would be happy just to get 3G.

-SNT
permalink · 2009-09-21 18:26:26 · Reply to this
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: {Sigh}

already done here in Cleveland by TM. ATT is another story.
permalink · 2009-09-22 07:53:41 · Reply to this

Voyager2K2

join:2001-10-04
Wayne, PA

Who Cares?

Cricket, Verizon, and then Sprint are the hot items in Philly.
Don't forget we still have free wireless in parts of the town.
T-Who?
permalink · 2009-09-22 04:28:08 · Reply to this
JamesDax

join:2001-02-24
Philadelphia, PA

Re: Who Cares?

I care. I just ordered the new Tmobile Tap and will be receiving it tomorrow. I be back then to post what speeds I'm getting.
--
He who lives the longest will know the most.
permalink · 2009-11-17 07:51:53 · Reply to this
Forums » T-Mobile Drops 21 Mbps HSPA+ On Philly

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