 IllIlIlllIllEliteDataPremium join:2003-07-06 Hampton Bays, NY kudos:7 | stupid i dont get all this nonsense these wireless companies are doing with restricting tethering. when i tether my phone as a wifi hotspot, its so i can browse the web, do my work and chat with people on my laptop, not for downloading large files. sure there are users who use tethering for bandwidth intensive applications and im sure thats the reason behind all of this but lets stick to the caps and/or throttling for cases like that. i just cant understand why in the USA, throttling, caps and overages have to apply, not just for wireless, but for everything, when these providers are obtaining this bandwidth for wholesale, the cost scales have to be so unbalanced between the consumer and the provider. Japan does not have all of this nonsense. -- Suffolk County NY Police Feed - »www.scpdny.com PS3 Gaming Feed - »www.livestream.com/elitedata | |
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 |  | | Re: stupid You may ask why do the cell companies sell these smart phones that can do all this stuff but then punish the folks when they do use their smart phone to its potential??????? -- brought to you by Carl's Jr. Esteban Colberto for President of Cuba | |
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 |  |  drewAutomaticPremium join:2002-07-10 Port Orchard, WA kudos:6 | Re: stupid 1) They're all publicly owned companies. That is, they are all required by law to make money for their shareholders. 2) The networks were NEVER designed to handle the kind of traffic people are placing on them when they tether their BT running laptop to their phone.
I've "unofficially" tethered a few phones (Thanks PDANet and Rooted Android), and it's a nice feature. -- flickr | 'Cause I've been waiting, all my life just waiting For you to shine, shine your light on me | |
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 |  |  |  |  | | Re: stupid Tethering is NOT a service carriers provide, it is a function of the phone's system software and can ony be blocked if the software is gimped on demand of the carriers. Unrestricted tethreing can be restored by installing custom ROM's that restore the OEM .apk's.
Telcos in other countries "honor" the intent of the OEMs by leaving these .apk's in place and allowing tethering at no extra charge, specifically O2 (UK), Rogers (Canada), Telefonikka (Sweden). and others, in Latin America, Asia, etc.
This double-dipping by US carriers for tethering, along with charges for recieving calls and SMS (again, which other carriers n other countries do NOT charge for) is a repugnant and unethical example of American corporate malfeasance, legally permitted only by the grace of unregulated collusion and price-fixing in the so-called "Free" Market and the unchecked ascendancy of the Private Sector in this country. In short, this STINKS, and needs to be changed under federal regulation if necessary, and the sooner the better for the welfare of the bill-paying consumer. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  | | Re: stupid I couldnt have put it better myself except I would have used expletives and called all the carriers snake oil and used car salesmen! | |
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 |  |  |  cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM join:2003-05-14 Fort Wayne, IN kudos:7 | said by drew:1) They're all publicly owned companies. That is, they are all required by law to make money for their shareholders. TMo is owned by Deutsche Telekom, so they (TMo) is not a publicly owned company. Companies are also not required by law to make money. If they were, any company in financial trouble would automatically face lawsuits. They carry a fiduciary duty in managing money invested. That doesn't automatically mean that they must milk every last drop of profit out of any and all products and services that they provide. | |
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 |  |  |  dib22 join:2002-01-27 Kansas City, MO | said by drew:1) They're all publicly owned companies. That is, they are all required by law to make money for their shareholders. Please show me that law  | |
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 |  tcopePremium join:2003-05-07 Sandy, UT kudos:2 | First... it's because they need to plan for the future and raise money now to keep expanding/upgrading their data network. That costs a _boatload_ of money.
Please don't try to compare the economy of forign countries. It does not work that way.
While carriers are making money off data, I doubt they are laughing all of the way to the bank. If this were possible, one carrier could simply drop their prices and obtain almost all of the market.
As far as you not getting the nonsense... you mention later in your post exactly why tethering restrictions are being put in place. It's the same thing as offering "unlimited" data... it's marketing... the less data used, the more money the company can make. | |
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 |  |  morboComplete Your Transaction join:2002-01-22 00000 | Re: stupid said by tcope:First... it's because they need to plan for the future and raise money now to keep expanding/upgrading their data network. That costs a _boatload_ of money. If you haven't been paying attention, wireless services are a HUGE cash cow for telco without considering any additional fees like for tethering. | |
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 |  |  |  | | Re: stupid said by morbo:said by tcope:First... it's because they need to plan for the future and raise money now to keep expanding/upgrading their data network. That costs a _boatload_ of money. If you haven't been paying attention, wireless services are a HUGE cash cow for telco without considering any additional fees like for tethering. Agreed. Why do you think carriers such as Verizon got out of the landline business? The margins of returns are much better from their wireless division.
Now, regarding the strategy or dropping price to increase market share, I personally agree with that statement. However, carriers might be applying the inverse logic. If something is too cheap, then it must not be good quality, right? Well, they don't have as much coverage as us! At least that's the angle they could be taking and/or marketing. Similar things happen in the medical world all the time. -- Hope this helps... | |
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 |  |  |  |  openbox9Premium join:2004-01-26 japan kudos:2 | Re: stupid said by bbrkdub:Why do you think carriers such as Verizon got out of the landline business? The margins of returns are much better from their wireless division. Yep. For those that don't understand why AT&T and Verizon are focusing on wireless services instead of UVerse and FiOS, one needs only to look at the margins. Wireless margins are roughly double wireline margins. As migration to smartphones and wireless data services continues, it's only going to become more beneficial to focus on wireless. It's prudent business. | |
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 |  |  |  tcopePremium join:2003-05-07 Sandy, UT kudos:2 | said by morbo:If you haven't been paying attention, wireless services are a HUGE cash cow for telco without considering any additional fees like for tethering. In the meantime revenue from things like voice and text have dropped. If you consider data a huge cash cow then you are not considering the _HUGE_ expense of supporting that data "cash cow". Rolling out LTE networks is not cheap. Supporting a _HUGE_ increase in data use is not cheap. | |
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 |  |  |  |  morboComplete Your Transaction join:2002-01-22 00000 | Re: stupid $30 a month per device for smart phone data is not cheap. It is actually very expensive, and that is what providers are using to build out their network. This artificial price floor that has been, conveniently adopted by almost all cell providers, means that no one should feel bad for telco. They are rolling in money. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  tcopePremium join:2003-05-07 Sandy, UT kudos:2 | Re: stupid said by morbo:$30 a month per device for smart phone data is not cheap. It is actually very expensive, and that is what providers are using to build out their network. This artificial price floor that has been, conveniently adopted by almost all cell providers, means that no one should feel bad for telco. They are rolling in money. You should mention this to Light Squared who's sole means of income was to establish Sprint's LTE network. You could point out where all of this money is that they are rolling in. Perhaps you could also call T-mobile, who's profits were down 50% from last year.
I pay $20/month for 5GB of data on Tmobile.
I'm not trying to stick up for cell carriers... I do agree that they stand next to the devil. But I don't agree that tethering does not cost them money... it's simply fact that it does. Every carrier bases their data rates on the fact that a vast majority of customers won't use the amount they advertise. The price is set on that lower amount. If they allowed tethering then they would need to spend more money to support that amount of usage.
If you argue that you are buying "unlimited", 5GB, 2GB, etc. of bandwidtht that you should be able to use it then you are also agreeing to paying more for your already over priced plan.
I should probably add that I get free tethering from T-Mobile under my $20/month plan. This is why I stay with them. So I might be a bit bias. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  morboComplete Your Transaction join:2002-01-22 00000 | Re: stupid said by tcope: You should mention this to Light Squared who's sole means of income was to establish Sprint's LTE network. You could point out where all of this money is that they are rolling in. Perhaps you could also call T-mobile, who's profits were down 50% from last year. Light Squared is not a telco provider, and T-Mobile's profits were down because customers abandoned ship rather than suffer through being stuck with AT&T. If you'd like to cherry pick another example that doesn't work then I'm happy to respond. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  tcopePremium join:2003-05-07 Sandy, UT kudos:2 | Re: stupid Light Squared was to furnish Sprint with LTE... so it applies to my comment that providing data/LTE is _very_ expensive. In this case LS lost millions (billions?).
Why are TM customers going with other carriers? Could be their lack of coverage and qulaity of data signal. TM is needing to leave HPSA behind and jump up to LTE just to keep in business. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  morboComplete Your Transaction join:2002-01-22 00000 | Re: stupid If you don't remember, when AT&T announced its plan to buy T-Mobile, T-Mobile customers left in droves rather than endure being a customer of AT&T. AT&T service and the company is that loathed that people left T-Mobile rather than entertain the possibility of being an AT&T customer. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  tcopePremium join:2003-05-07 Sandy, UT kudos:2 | Re: stupid You can argue that... but I suspect it has much more to do with all carriers now offering the iPhone. All carriers _except_ TM. | |
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 |  |  n2jtx join:2001-01-13 Glen Head, NY | said by tcope:Please don't try to compare the economy of forign countries. It does not work that way. Perhaps not Japan but how about here in good old North America, specifically Canada? Rogers, for example, does not charge extra for tethering. In fact, they encourage it because it has a habit of generating overage charges that are apparently more profitable than charging a tethering fee. -- I support the right to keep and arm bears. | |
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 |  |  |  tcopePremium join:2003-05-07 Sandy, UT kudos:2 | Re: stupid said by n2jtx:Perhaps not Japan but how about here in good old North America, specifically Canada? Rogers, for example, does not charge extra for tethering. In fact, they encourage it because it has a habit of generating overage charges that are apparently more profitable than charging a tethering fee. So you are willing to trade one evil for another and you think people won't still complain? I took a quick look at Rogers's data plan pricing and they appear to be a lot more expensive and are all tiered (I realize that it's the Canadian Dollar). So another way to look at it is that they allow tethering but 1) the basic plan is more expensive, 2) all plans are limited and 3) the cost of the plan actually increases upon usage.
I wonder how many $10,000 data bills they have to eat because people don't pay them. | |
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 |  |  |  |  | | Re: stupid said by tcope:So you are willing to trade one evil for another and you think people won't still complain? I took a quick look at Rogers's data plan pricing and they appear to be a lot more expensive and are all tiered (I realize that it's the Canadian Dollar). So another way to look at it is that they allow tethering but 1) the basic plan is more expensive, 2) all plans are limited and 3) the cost of the plan actually increases upon usage.
I wonder how many $10,000 data bills they have to eat because people don't pay them.
Wind Mobile ( »www.wind.ca ) has 'unlimited' data in my $40 all-you-can-eat voice & data plan. Actually it's 5GB at full speed, thereafter they *may* throttle. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  tcopePremium join:2003-05-07 Sandy, UT kudos:2 | Re: stupid It's windmobile.ca.
You are comparing Wind coverage to any other company? Come on... lets be honest. Wind has "coverage" in 3 small areas (3 cities in all of CA). If you are outside of these 3 cities you _PAY_ "away charges at $.20/min. You also pay $.10/25kb.
Per their website: " If I have a data add-on, can I tether my phone to my laptop?
If you have a data add-on and have added data tethering, you can use your phone's internet connection to get your laptop online (aka "tethering") with most WIND phones."
It appears from their website that data with tethering is seperate from a normal data plan.
We are talking about tethering. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  | | Re: stupid said by tcope:It's windmobile.ca.
You are comparing Wind coverage to any other company? Come on... lets be honest. Wind has "coverage" in 3 small areas (3 cities in all of CA). If you are outside of these 3 cities you _PAY_ "away charges at $.20/min. You also pay $.10/25kb.
Per their website: " If I have a data add-on, can I tether my phone to my laptop?
If you have a data add-on and have added data tethering, you can use your phone's internet connection to get your laptop online (aka "tethering") with most WIND phones."
It appears from their website that data with tethering is seperate from a normal data plan.
We are talking about tethering. I can tether on my existing $40 plan (the plan they offer today may not have that option), wired or via Bluetooth, or turning my phone into a WiFi hotspot.
I can also pull the SIM from my phone and stuff it into a data stick, and changing the APN on a data stick and it'll work for data that way too. | |
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 |  | | The reason they're doing this is because they can. They don't care how you use your connect. It's none of their business. They have an opportunity to get more money from you and me and they're taking it. It's really that simple. | |
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 |  | | said by IllIlIlllIll:i dont get all this nonsense these wireless companies are doing with restricting tethering. when i tether my phone as a wifi hotspot, its so i can browse the web, do my work and chat with people on my laptop, not for downloading large files. sure there are users who use tethering for bandwidth intensive applications and im sure thats the reason behind all of this but lets stick to the caps and/or throttling for cases like that. i just cant understand why in the USA, throttling, caps and overages have to apply, not just for wireless, but for everything, when these providers are obtaining this bandwidth for wholesale, the cost scales have to be so unbalanced between the consumer and the provider. Japan does not have all of this nonsense. Greed! | |
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 | | Don't confuse one with the other T-Mobile is probably the one company that I will give a little slack for tethering, but only a little.
First off, these companies may be required to make money for their shareholders, but don't confuse that with the creation of artificial scarcity by limiting what you can do with the data you've purchased.
I fully understand the need to limit tethering when using an unlimited data plan. It's fair to say that these networks were not designed to handle that usage.
But when you are under a metered data plan and there is an additional charge for tethering, that's a different story. It doesn't make any difference what you do with your data at all. 2GB is 2GB, 5GB is 5GB. Is the data cheaper when I use a single core ARM processor on an old Android phone vs. a dual core ARM processor on a newer Android phone? No, it's not. So there's no reason to restrict that data if I use it with the processor in my laptop, or on my tablet or anything else. It's data. It's metered. That's it.
As I said, the one reason I would give T-Mobile slack is that they don't cut off their users after they reach their plan limit and they don't charge them more, either. They throttle them. To me, that's fair and if they charge you for that and still let you go on at that slower speed, so be it.
These companies need to stay in business. Nothing in life is free. But for the most part (meaning most carriers), tethering charges are nothing more than being abusive to the consumer and it pisses me off that it's allowed to take place. | |
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 |  IllIlIlllIllEliteDataPremium join:2003-07-06 Hampton Bays, NY kudos:7 | Re: Don't confuse one with the other it wouldnt surprise me that major shareholders are "exempt" from these restrictions either. | |
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 |  |  openbox9Premium join:2004-01-26 japan kudos:2 | Re: Don't confuse one with the other Do you honestly think that major shareholders care about a couple hundred dollar phone bill? | |
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 |  |  |  IllIlIlllIllEliteDataPremium join:2003-07-06 Hampton Bays, NY kudos:7 | Re: Don't confuse one with the other said by openbox9:Do you honestly think that major shareholders care about a couple hundred dollar phone bill? i do, if they are pressuring the company to produce profits. -- Suffolk County NY Police Feed - »www.scpdny.com PS3 Gaming Feed - »www.livestream.com/elitedata | |
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 |  |  |  |  openbox9Premium join:2004-01-26 japan kudos:2 | Re: Don't confuse one with the other Why would a manager of an investment portfolio care about a phone bill? It's a cost of doing business for many executives and management-types. | |
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 | | Its most certainly a because they can fee !!! If your network can't handle the users, then you need to invest in infrastructure, not penalize your client base for your in-action to support said network. $10 to $15 for overage fees? Would you by a 1 Gig CD/DVD for that price ?  | |
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| Charges for tethering only make sense for Unlimited plans If a user is on an unlimited plan, I don't fault them for charging for tethering, t-mobile is in a gray area because while their plans technically are unlimited as in they don't cut you off or charge overage fees, but throttle you pretty harshly (Is it still that horrid 50k speed) which pretty much limits what you can do, forget audio or video streaming, it's basically email,web and apps.
If you are on a tiered plan like AT&T or Verizon and pay for a set amount of bandwidth, their is no excuse for an extra fee for tethering as you've already bought the bandwidth outright and if tethering causes you to use more than the allotment you've already paid for, you'll be charged for that at a hefty $10/GB.
Sprint is the really the only carrier left that really has a valid reason for charging for tethering.
Also people always get on people's backs about complaining about tethering, saying the network can't support you run bittorrent or downloading huge files, etc etc. but honestly most users don't use it for that, I use it on business trips because hotel wifi sucks, I just use it for connecting to work email,vpn not much bandwidth at all. | |
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 |  See 6 replies to this post |
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 | | What is the point, easy to bypass It's very easy to crack that and get thethering back with no problem. | |
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 |  BiggA join:2005-11-23 EARTH | Yeah, exactly, I have MyWi, and it's even easier on the Android side of things, you usually just root. | |
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 |  |  BiggA join:2005-11-23 EARTH | Re: What is the point, easy to bypass Can you use Google? I've done it on Symbian, Android and iPhone. | |
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 |  |  | | said by anon101 :Can you explain how? google how to put custom ROM if on Android or jailbreak on iPhone. | |
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 dib22 join:2002-01-27 Kansas City, MO | it's the same data. before you know it they will be charging us a fee for charging us a fee. | |
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 |  SmokChsrWho let the magic smoke out?Premium join:2006-03-17 Saint Augustine, FL | Re: it's the same data. said by dib22:before you know it they will be charging us a fee for charging us a fee. Please, don't give them any ideas!! | |
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 |  |  | | Re: it's the same data. Too late, Verizon already tried that. | |
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 | | USB Dongle? What if you just take the SIM out and use it in a dongle on the laptop? That gives you the advantages of tethering without the hassle. | |
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 |  | | Re: USB Dongle? When I had T-Mobile, that worked as long as I used it but I've heard that both AT&T and T-Mo both monitor IMEI's and eventually throw a fit if you switch SIMs and thereby provision a laptop for the "wrong" data plan.
Along with what I said in my earlier post, telcos in other countries often will give you additional SIMs on your line to use in whatever data devices you want, again at no extra charge.
I just hate the American wireless business models with a passion. | |
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 ThespisI'm not an actor, but I play one on TV.Premium join:2004-08-03 Keller, TX | To answer Karl's question... My sensation upgraded last night and still has usb, wireless hotspot and bluetooth tethering options. They all still work. Not sure what all the fuss is about... -- Fast. Cheap. Safe. Pick two... | |
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 |  | | Re: To answer Karl's question... my hotspot ended today, was fine yesterday. now I see the they upsale page asking me to upgrade for 14.95 | |
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