T-Mobile Launches 4G HSPA+ in Eleven More Markets HSPA+ 42 Now Covers 163 Markets Nationwide T-Mobile today announced that the company has pushed their HSPA+ 42 upgrades in 11 additional markets: Bend, Medford and Corvallis, Oregon; Benton Harbor, Michigan; Bloomington, Champaign–Urbana and Springfield, Illinois; Columbus, Georgia; Hagerstown, Maryland; Montgomery, Alabama; and Yuba City, California. The company says they've also upgraded a number of markets with HSPA+ 21: Corvallis, Oregon; Decatur and Peoria, Illlinois; Evansville, Indiana; Holland and Kalamazoo, Michigan; Santa Barbara, California; State College, Pennsylvania; and Yuba City, California. According to T-Mobile, the fastest version of their HSPA+ upgrades (advertised as capable of 42 Mbps but delivering something closer to 10 Mbps) are now available to almost 180 million users across 163 markets.
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 | | Great Now what about the markets like mine with ONLY 10mhz and severe capacity problems? | |
|  | | | Re: Great Where does T-Mobile have only one deployed W-CDMA carrier channel and "severe capacity problems"? Are the capacity issues on the GSM side or the W-CDMA side? The latter would seem the exception rather than the rule, as T-Mobile has only ~30% penetration rate for W-CDMA devices.
But, in those markets where T-Mobile holds no more AWS 2100+1700 MHz spectrum than a single AWS D/E block 10 MHz license, there is little that T-Mobile can do, short of acquiring more AWS spectrum. And that is easier said than done.
AJ | |
| | | | | Re: Great said by WiWavelength:Where does T-Mobile have only one deployed W-CDMA carrier channel and "severe capacity problems"? Are the capacity issues on the GSM side or the W-CDMA side? The latter would seem the exception rather than the rule, as T-Mobile has only ~30% penetration rate for W-CDMA devices.
But, in those markets where T-Mobile holds no more AWS 2100+1700 MHz spectrum than a single AWS D/E block 10 MHz license, there is little that T-Mobile can do, short of acquiring more AWS spectrum. And that is easier said than done.
AJ
St. Louis, MO is one where there are users are complaining and Birmingham, AL I have personally experienced it. Calls going straight to GSM, and data is nearly unusable. Capacity issues are mostly on UMTS side thankfully, but like in Tuscaloosa, AL during game days for instance the University of Alabama vs. LSU game T-Mobile was completely dead on both GSM and W-CDMA. Of course all carriers had some issues, but AT&T is running 6 carriers or 60mhz of W-CDMA, and Verizon is running the equivalent of their EV 1X system. But being a college campus you can expect many T-Mobile user's w/ Android's.
T-Mobile could however if the merger falls, start recycling GSM spectrum and deploy another carrier on 1900mhz and start offering *free* UMTS basic phone's to people who have feature phone's, and low end smartphone's to people who want to upgrade! | |
| | | | NWOhio
join:2011-10-25
Toledo, OH | Re: Great TMO was just giving away the Gravity Smart's but only in stores and you had to ask for them. Otherwise they're about $25 each. | |
| | | | | | said by iFail 5G:...but like in Tuscaloosa, AL during game days for instance the University of Alabama vs. LSU game T-Mobile was completely dead on both GSM and W-CDMA. Of course all carriers had some issues, but AT&T is running 6 carriers or 60mhz of W-CDMA...
Is AT&T running six W-CDMA carriers full time or only with COWs on game days? I would guess the latter, as 60 MHz of W-CDMA bandwidth is an excessive outlay for most places and times.
AJ | |
| | | | | | | Re: Great said by WiWavelength:said by iFail 5G:...but like in Tuscaloosa, AL during game days for instance the University of Alabama vs. LSU game T-Mobile was completely dead on both GSM and W-CDMA. Of course all carriers had some issues, but AT&T is running 6 carriers or 60mhz of W-CDMA...
Is AT&T running six W-CDMA carriers full time or only with COWs on game days? I would guess the latter, as 60 MHz of W-CDMA bandwidth is an excessive outlay for most places and times. AJ They run 6 W-CDMA carrier's on the 5 main tower's that serve the stadium and the bar's and park where people tailgate. Unfortunately this last game I didn't see any COW's except for Verizon so AT&T was essentially dead most of the time even with the 6th carrier.
There are not many place's to put sites around the main stadium area, I would say at most 15 sites serving over 100,000+ people and no campus wide WiFi. There are DAS's throughout the stadium but AT&T still goes down every home game. | |
| | | | | | | | Re: Great Ugh. They have 6 sectors. They don't own the entire PCS band. | |
| | | | | | | | | Re: Great said by LineNoise:Ugh. They have 6 sectors. They don't own the entire PCS band.
? In Tuscaloosa, AL AT&T Mobility has 75mhz of spectrum. They have plenty of spectrum to run 6 carriers of UMTS, with 15 leftover for the few legacy GSM users and M2M. | |
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| | | | | said by iFail 5G:T-Mobile could however if the merger falls, start recycling GSM spectrum and deploy another carrier on 1900mhz and start offering *free* UMTS basic phone's to people who have feature phone's, and low end smartphone's to people who want to upgrade!
Two thoughts...
If the merger fails, T-Mobile is slated to receive some of AT&T's AWS 2100+1700 MHz spectrum as part of the break up fee. So, that AWS spectrum could be put to use to ease W-CDMA 2100+1700 congestion in markets where T-Mobile has only a single AWS D/E block 10 MHz license.
As for recycling its PCS 1900 MHz spectrum, yes, T-Mobile would probably have to start coercing some of its GSM subs to shift to W-CDMA capable handsets, since ~70% of its subs remain GSM only. But W-CDMA 1900 would help alleviate congestion for only some of T-Mobile's subs because many of their handsets support UMTS band IV (i.e. W-CDMA 2100+1700) but not band II (i.e. W-CDMA 1900).
AJ | |
| | | | | | | Re: Great said by WiWavelength:said by iFail 5G:T-Mobile could however if the merger falls, start recycling GSM spectrum and deploy another carrier on 1900mhz and start offering *free* UMTS basic phone's to people who have feature phone's, and low end smartphone's to people who want to upgrade!
Two thoughts... If the merger fails, T-Mobile is slated to receive some of AT&T's AWS 2100+1700 MHz spectrum as part of the break up fee. So, that AWS spectrum could be put to use to ease W-CDMA 2100+1700 congestion in markets where T-Mobile has only a single AWS D/E block 10 MHz license. As for recycling its PCS 1900 MHz spectrum, yes, T-Mobile would probably have to start coercing some of its GSM subs to shift to W-CDMA capable handsets, since ~70% of its subs remain GSM only. But W-CDMA 1900 would help alleviate congestion for only some of T-Mobile's subs because many of their handsets support UMTS band IV (i.e. W-CDMA 2100+1700) but not band II (i.e. W-CDMA 1900). AJ Agreed, hopefully they would get the spectrum in the major markets where they only have 10mhz spectrum. They could then use the $3billion or so to expand UMTS even further and deploy HSPA+ 42 in those markets and expand more UMTS base stations across their network.
And wow I didn't know they still had that many user's with legacy handsets. I guess it would make sense because they haven't had UMTS as long as AT&T, nor does it represent the majority of their network.
My idea for them to survive as a national carrier if this fails
1. Do an aggressive EDGE build out to rid of GPRS. I can't tell you how horrible it is when my phone falls to GPRS while traveling a lot, I do have AT&T and Verizon but if T-Mobile was my only carrier, GPRS is just too slow. AT&T rid their network of it in 2004 with an EDGE overlay immediately with their GSM over TDMA overlay.
2. Of course, deploy more UMTS carriers and add more coverage, see about following UMTS's evolution to HSPA+ 84 with MIMO.
Quite a few of their newer handset's either officially or unofficially support band II, but not all so start selling all handsets with both IV and II. The Amaze, Galaxy S 4G, regular Galaxy S, and a few other I can't remember right now support PCS 3G.
That would be a very good start to further their network. | |
| | | | | | | | Re: Great said by iFail 5G:They could then use the $3billion or so to expand UMTS even further and deploy HSPA+ 42...
To confirm, is T-Mobile using W-CDMA Release 7, Category 20 (64-QAM, MIMO) or Release 8, Category 24 (64-QAM, Dual Carrier) to achieve HSPA+ 42.2 Mbps? I believe it to be the latter, with T-Mobile employing Release 7, Category 14 (64-QAM, non MIMO) in its HSPA+ 21.1 Mbps markets.
AJ | |
| | | | | | | | | Re: Great said by WiWavelength:said by iFail 5G:They could then use the $3billion or so to expand UMTS even further and deploy HSPA+ 42...
To confirm, is T-Mobile using W-CDMA Release 7, Category 20 (64-QAM, MIMO) or Release 8, Category 24 (64-QAM, Dual Carrier) to achieve HSPA+ 42.2 Mbps? I believe it to be the latter, with T-Mobile employing Release 7, Category 14 (64-QAM, non MIMO) in its HSPA+ 21.1 Mbps markets. AJ It is Rel. 8, Category 24 Dual Cell or Dual Carrier HSPA+ 42 64QAM. It was believed to be that there were some interference issues or something like that with MIMO, so they are doing Category 14 and Category 24. | |
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| | | | | | | said by iFail 5G:And wow I didn't know they still had that many user's with legacy handsets. I guess it would make sense because they haven't had UMTS as long as AT&T, nor does it represent the majority of their network.
The only ~30% penetration rate was news to me, too. But that is the current stat from T-Mobile's third quarter report.
"-- As of the end of the third quarter of 2011, 10.1 million customers were using 3G/4G smartphones, up 40% compared to 7.2 million as of the end of the third quarter of 2010."
"-- 3G/4G smartphone customers now account for 30% of total customers, up from 29% in the second quarter of 2011 and 21% in the third quarter of 2010."
AJ | |
| | | | | | | | | Re: Great said by WiWavelength:said by iFail 5G:And wow I didn't know they still had that many user's with legacy handsets. I guess it would make sense because they haven't had UMTS as long as AT&T, nor does it represent the majority of their network.
The only ~30% penetration rate was news to me, too. But that is the current stat from T-Mobile's third quarter report. "-- As of the end of the third quarter of 2011, 10.1 million customers were using 3G/4G smartphones, up 40% compared to 7.2 million as of the end of the third quarter of 2010." "-- 3G/4G smartphone customers now account for 30% of total customers, up from 29% in the second quarter of 2011 and 21% in the third quarter of 2010." AJ I guess when you consider how many users with dumb phone's (text and talking), prepaid user's like Tracfone and NetTen, and M2M devices there are on T-Mobile its easy to see how many people have GSM handsets only. + the fact they have over 1 million users with iPhone's that only run on their GSM network.
If I am not mistaken, AT&T doesn't even sell GSM only handset's anyone, at least on the postpaid side. And there are quite a few areas now, especially former Alltel markets that require a UMTS capable device to get service. | |
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| | |  GbcueAlmost P.E.Premium
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA
kudos:8 | You do know that calls only run on the GSM spectrum, right? As of today, there are no calls routed through the WCDMA channels (same for all carriers).
--
My Blog 2.2 | |
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@insightbb.com | Re: 2G GMS and 3G UMTS Yes, calls can go over GSM or UMTS networks in USA with either T-Mobile or AT&T.
It's easy for anyone to test themselves by turning off 2G GSM radio on the phone (if available) and making a call over 3G/4G UMTS only. AT&T's new/former Alltel towers/antennas out west are UMTS only.
You're also right about LTE not having voice built in yet. Probably a long time before it's as reliable as circuit switched voice. | |
| | | | | | GbcueAlmost P.E.Premium
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA
kudos:8 | Maybe I'm mixing up my 4G's... | |
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| | | | | | Re: Great said by Gbcue:You do know that calls only run on the GSM spectrum, right? As of today, there are no calls routed through the WCDMA channels (same for all carriers).
HUH? If your phone is connected to WCDMA on T-Mobile the call will go over the UMTS voice channel's. The only reason it should ever fall back to GSM is because 1. Coverage on UMTS is getting weak, or 2. There is no capacity on the UMTS system. | |
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| | | Don't worry once Ma Bell takes over they will take care of you... | |
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 djdanskaRudie32Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
kudos:4 | Nice. i guess.. Nice that markets like peoria have it but once you leave the actual city itself, your pretty much at gprs speeds. Sucks.. I would rather they increase the 3g footprint before 4g. | |
| | | They are State Penn Did they really need to provide their 4G service to State Penn University? | |
|  BF69Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | Who cares 4G? How about 3G or actually ANY G in my area. Verizon will have 4G here before T-mobile has ANY service here. So fuck 'em. | |
| | | | Re: Who cares said by BF69:4G? How about 3G or actually ANY G in my area. Verizon will have 4G here before T-mobile has ANY service here. So fuck 'em.
Not everyone lives in the middle of nowhere. | |
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| | 4G Arrives In the Evansville, IN market here and T-Mobile customers. This is good news, although we also have just 10 MHz spectrum for T-Mobile AWS. 3G arrived just 18 months ago.
GSM works well on my 2G flip phone; voice quality is excellent. My wife's 3G/4G smart phone also does fine for voice with WCDMA, although 3G data/signal can flucuate sometimes. The density of T-Mobile's towers/antennas is rather low here and I'd guess only 10%-20% of cell phone users in this area are with Magenta.
I looked up the AWS spectrum holdings for this area/market on the FCC website. 20 MHz is being squatted by Spectrum Co. (aka big cable) and 20 MHz by Aloha Partners II. Definitely no shortage if T-Mobile, or whomever they sell to, decides to spend some money and expand. If they could just get 3G coverage/roaming on major rural highways and interstates, it would be a solid nationwide network. | |
| | Reviews:
 ·T-Mobile US
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: 4G Arrives How does one find how much spectrum is allocated in a particular market? I worked in tier2 PDA support at T-Mobile 2 years ago (wow has it been that long?), and I'm not even sure if I had that data then....
I do know that where I'm at, I'm surrounded by towers on all sides that are at least 3G enabled... All of them within earshot basically, not far away. I hadn't seen a 4G announcement, but my G2X claims to have 4G ...
Yet.... I lose signal constantly when in my apartment. Without WiFi calling, I'd be in trouble. When I do have indoor signal, no matter where I'm at, it's ONLY Edge, never 3G or 4G except conveniently at the T-Mobile store...
And, when I *do* have a 3G or 4G signal in my area, that is when I'm OUTDOORS, if it's anytime between 6 am and 11pm, speed tests will run around .1mb to .5mb download speed. I only ever witness speeds > 1mb during the middle of the night...
I'm not really sure why I haven't jumped ship yet, to be honest.....
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If it ain't broke..... You didn't overclock it enough. | |
| | | | | Re: 4G Arrives There are probably multiple ways to find the information, but here is where I looked last night for my market- Evansville, IN.
First, here is a good overview explaining AWS and the auction:
»www.phonescoop.com/articles/arti···9&p=1492
Next, here is the summary and links page from the FCC:
»wireless.fcc.gov/auctions/defaul···ry&id=66
I downloaded the auction results spreadsheet and searched that by market name. This spreadsheet search will give you the CMA and BEA (EA) results for the different blocks. It also shows the regional groupings further down. We're in the Mississippi Valley, like St. Louis, where T-Mobile only won 10 MHz in this region 4. Some of the spectrum has already been flipped. For example, AWS/Next Wave Wireless sold some of their winnings to Aloha Partners in many markets. SpectrumCo LLC is still the same today as mentioned in the previous post. Cavalier Wireless is also a squatter that I didn't mention previously for our market at the BEA level with 10 MHz. To be fair, Verizon Wireless is probably the biggest AWS squatter with much (all?) 20 MHz unused at the region level.
The current license holder can be searched on this FCC page (for some reason I had to use IE for the script to work on this page):
»wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSear···40871827
One question I do have is what about current owners/squatters leasing their spectrum? Any way to know if this is currently happening using a search? Are such leases required to be recorded? | |
| | | | | | Re: 4G Arrives said by Answer :One question I do have is what about current owners/squatters leasing their spectrum? Any way to know if this is currently happening using a search? Are such leases required to be recorded?
Yes, starting roughly five years ago, the FCC ULS database has included leases. For example, in San Diego, Qualcomm frequently leases spectrum for testing purposes. The first listing is the Cox AWS 2100+1700 MHz license; the second listing is the Qualcomm lease. See below:
»wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSear···=2862934
»wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSear···=3323807
AJ | |
| | | | | | | Re: 4G Arrives Thanks. I looked up our market again and the only leases listed were for Verizon in the F block to their shell partnership companies. This must be for investment or legal purposes to appease the FCC. I don't know of any AWS devices on Verizon. Metro and Cricket use AWS for 4G, but they sure don't roam on Verizon in some of these rural F block locations for 4G data.
So all told, 70 MHz AWS is not currently used in our market. FCC is full of __it. | |
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2G GMS and 3G UMTS