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T-Mobile Not Too Happy With Critical RootMetrics Study

While AT&T has been winning most of the recent LTE speed tests, T-Mobile CTO Neville Ray has recently been promising that will soon change. The company is in the process of migrating to 2x10MHz channels to speed up LTE connectivity, and early indications were that they were starting to nip at AT&T's heels in terms of speed, after spending the last few months hitting AT&T in terms of pricing.

Enter the RootMetrics study we discussed earlier this week, which had T-Mobile well behind both AT&T and Verizon in terms of speed. T-Mobile wasn't apparently impressed with the study, claiming that it reflected the company's network last year, long before most of the company's recent LTE upgrades. T-Mobile CEO John Legere took to Twitter to quickly complain:

Even Verizon, who came out on top of the study overall, complained that it was outdated in that it didn't use AWS-capable devices that are able to use Verizon's newly-deployed AWS spectrum across numerous markets. T-Mobile’s CTO Neville Ray spoke this week at a conference in San Francisco about the study, acknowledging that T-Mobile still needs to do a better job with overall coverage, especially in more rural areas:

quote:
"When we move out into rural areas where we don’t serve, obviously we don’t have a competitive experience. But we are working on that. We will be working on that more with what we do with our [700 MHz] A Block deployment. And we look to level the playing field across a broader swath of geography across the coming years."
T-Mobile's LTE network currently covers 209 million people, a number T-Mobile claims will reach 230 million by the middle of this year, and 250 million by the time 2015 rolls around.

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amungus
Premium Member
join:2004-11-26
America

amungus

Premium Member

At least they're honest about this part

"When we move out into rural areas where we don’t serve, obviously we don’t have a competitive experience. But we are working on that.

I see T-Mo phones do some crazy stuff when they're even a little bit off the beaten path.

All in all, I'm glad they are shaking things up.
clone (banned)
join:2000-12-11
Portage, IN

clone (banned)

Member

The Study, in my experiences, is correct.

quote:
move out of the sticks 'ya buncha hicks
I am T-Mobile's target. I live and work in a major metropolitan area. Where I work is in the heart of the third-largest cellular market in the United States. I cannot get T-Mobile reception more than about 10 feet inside many buildings. Don't tell me about how it's PCS or high-band blah blah blah. Even Sprint works flawlessly in comparison. T-Mobile only works once you're on the 3rd floor and up in most buildings.

This tells me they do not have their sites tuned properly, either the tilt or power levels or something are way off. Even in an urban area, in market #3. Unacceptable. So, in all honesty, RootMetrics is correct, they are the last carrier you'd want to use if you care about signal strength and quality. I like T-Mobile as a company, and I'd like to use their service, I won't pay a dime to Sprint because of their handset locking policies, and Verizon and AT&T currently get my money, but I'd like to support someone besides the duopoly for a change. So I've tried T-Mobile numerous times over the years as my secondary (work) line. But I cannot use them for a work line when they don't work in buildings, end of story.

I'm not one of these people who whines about them not having service out in the sticks, I don't need their service to work there. I need it to function properly in the big city, which it doesn't once you're inside a building. If Sprint can make it work on PCS, I don't see how T-Mobile still hasn't figured out how to make it work. They whole-heartedly deserve the rating they got, no matter how much hot air comes out of their blowhard C-level executives.
tired_runner
Premium Member
join:2000-08-25
CT

tired_runner

Premium Member

Re: The Study, in my experiences, is correct.

T-Mobile works indoors. It just depends where. But overall, it is mediocre at best.
clone (banned)
join:2000-12-11
Portage, IN

clone (banned)

Member

Re: The Study, in my experiences, is correct.

It does depend where, but I've had all 4 major carriers and tried a line on U.S. Cellular before they exited the Chicago market, and by far and away the worst in-building penetration was on T-Mobile across the board.

I just don't understand with a cell site density as high as theirs, how they could be beaten by two other (arguably worse) PCS carriers.

wizardry
@140.254.70.x

wizardry to clone

Anon

to clone
Have you tried Wi-Fi calling?

jseymour
join:2009-12-11
Waterford, MI

jseymour

Member

Re: The Study, in my experiences, is correct.

said by wizardry :

Have you tried Wi-Fi calling?

Problem with that is you are then chained to TMO-branded stuff, and the attendant bloatware.

Jim
clone (banned)
join:2000-12-11
Portage, IN

clone (banned) to wizardry

Member

to wizardry
They don't offer it on the iPhone, which I am required to use for work.

graycorgi
Premium Member
join:2004-02-23

graycorgi to wizardry

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to wizardry
Wi-Fi calling seems like a feature in beta. Most of the time it doesn't even ring when we call people so it's really awkward when they pick up, and sometimes when people call us it goes straight to voicemail without ever indicating there was an incoming call. Not as bad as trying to use T-Mobile's network indoors here, but it's not the savior people make it out to be. The Sprint Airave works better but has a lot more limitations.

fuziwuzi
Not born yesterday
Premium Member
join:2005-07-01
Palm Springs, CA
Hitron EN2251
Nest H2D

fuziwuzi

Premium Member

Re: The Study, in my experiences, is correct.

I use wi-fi calling a lot when I travel to my parent's home in Virginia (rural area with no T-Mobile or AT&T cell signal) and to my second home in Shanghai, China. I've not had any of the problems you mention. I won't own a phone that doesn't have it. My mom is still amazed when she calls my number while I'm in China and I answer and sound just like I'm home in Atlanta.
existenz
join:2014-02-12

existenz to clone

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I'm sticking with Sprint because they work in most rural areas (native or roaming) and I use over 10GB/month, which costs too much on ATT/VZW. Tmobile doesn't even have usable voice signal where my dad lives, yet Sprint has LTE there.

Sprint hasn't even started 800LTE very widely yet so should get better. Tmobile will start 700 but it doesn't sound like they have much 700 outside areas they are already in.

cybah
join:2000-03-09
MA

cybah to clone

Member

to clone
Meh.. T-Mobile. I've been a T-Mobile customer since they were VoiceStream. I moved back to Chelsea a few years ago, and remembered why I had a land line phone before because T-Mobile just doesn't work.

In my town, their network is saturated. Voice calls are garbled or drop. Data is non existant. And this is with full signal strength indoors. I just cannot go anywhere. And its the tower in my town, because the minute I cross the Tobin bridge from Charlestown/Boston into Chelsea, I get full signal strength but a dial up modem is faster than T-Mobile Internet. Wifi Calling is meh also because WiFi in Chelsea blows due to an over saturated 2.4ghz spectrum, so I ended up keeping my Crapcast phone to make calls on when I'm at home.

Calls to T-Mobile almost fall on deaf ears. Because its hit or miss. They tell me its my handset (but I've had three replacements in 2 years of the same model) but I beg to differ. When I am in Cambridge at work. the phone works just fine, so its not my phone, it's their tower. I also went back to my older phone and it works. I also switched my phone ONLY to use EDGE or 3G and it works better. (It's slower, but repsonds far faster than the 4G spectrum)

I like T-Mobile as a customer and when I've lived elsewhere around the Metro Boston area, I've never had any real issues with the service except for the dead spot on I-93 across from Spot Pond in Stoneham. Their customer service is super, and I've found the stores (TMo O&O stores) to be friendly and helpful. I just wish the coverage was better.

My contract is up in May, I'm debating on switching but I won't go to Sprint or AT&T. And Verizon is just expensive (but the coverage works). We will see, I may just switch to a month to month and if I cannot get a service improvement with a newer phone, I will dump them in a heartbeat.
rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

rradina

Member

Re: The Study, in my experiences, is correct.

Could it be interference in Chelsea? If the 2.4Ghz spectrum is saturated, perhaps the s/n ratio in the area is horrible on TMO's spectrum (assuming other carriers don't have this problem).

cybah
join:2000-03-09
MA

2 edits

cybah

Member

Re: The Study, in my experiences, is correct.

Yeah I often think this is the case, but I really think the 2.4ghz (802.11g) is just crowded. We have all three family homes around us, on all sides and along our street, each one with a wireless router. This can add up VERY quickly to the 12 or so 2.4ghz channels. (I often see over 20 or wireless networks appear)

We also have the Tobin Bridge which is this huge hulking metal bridge that slices thru town. This might have something to do with it. (although the Charlestown side doesn't have the same issue)

I will say that Chelsea is a heavy Latin community and I know for many years T-Mobile was marketing toward minorities and foreigns (due to their roaming agreement with their parent, Deutsche Telecom), so it may just simply a tower that is over sold.

I also wonder if people are using their cell internet as a primary internet connection, since many homes have multiple people living in each unit (neighbor on one side has 7 people living in a 2 bedroom apartment). So I often wonder if people are just using a hot spot feature on their phone to provide service for their laptops, etc instead of using a Comcast cable internet connection.

I did know when we had hurricane sandy come thru, we lost power (only a few blocks in town did), but we also lost the cell site (i had no cell service, unless I stood in the backyard in the 75mph winds), so clearly T-Mobile only has one tower in town, and the next closest one is in East Boston (which was just too far away for me to get a signal).

As far as other carriers. Roommate has AT&T and has no problems. Neighbor upstairs has Verizon and no problems. So I am kinda at a loss.
cybah

cybah

Member

Re: The Study, in my experiences, is correct.

Oh and I should mention one other thing.. my whole issue is time of day dependent. I often get up very early in the AM (like 330-4am) and the internet will work better. Not as good as it does in Cambridge but far better than it does in the evening or during the day even.

Its clear that their tower is just over sold in my town.
RDC17
join:2011-05-15
Vienna, VA

RDC17 to clone

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At my house in South Carolina I can get 40Mbps+ on AT&T. Meanwhile T-Mobile just upgraded their sites from EDGE to HSPA. Even after the upgrades I have a friend who just dumped T-Mobile since he couldn't use his phone unless he was on the roof of his house.

Zenit_IIfx
The system is the solution
Premium Member
join:2012-05-07
Purcellville, VA
·Comcast XFINITY

Zenit_IIfx

Premium Member

Here in VA

Everywhere I go in Northern VA, as time goes on, I see more and more T-Mobile HSDPA replacing their EDGE on 1900, which also means LTE is available on the 1700/2100mhz band. Even in rural places, I am starting to see more and more HSDPA. I don't think Neville Ray is lying about the target for population-to-coverage, its getting better at a good pace.

Its almost like a game for me, guessing where I will see a tower with new equipment next. Its like the days when AT&T was first deploying 3G.

Regarding indoor coverage, in the major suburban areas I never had a problem, usually getting 2-5 bars of H. However, if your far from a tower, it does tend to drop to EDGE, or Nothing in some cases. But where I go, indoor service is good. At home, we are between an EDGE and a HSPDA/LTE tower. If your by a window or outer wall, phone will pick H or LTE. If your inside, it will go to EDGE.

Keep in mind, when 700mhz is deployed fully, indoor coverage will turn comparable to AT&T/VZ. Its the problem with higher frequency bands...drywall kills signal. :P
djeremy
join:2004-07-12
San Francisco, CA

djeremy

Member

Re: Here in VA

Yeah, a lot of rural areas in Northern California that used to be GPRS now lit up with LTE. I travel a lot for work and have noticed that they really are upgrading their towers all over the place. Their coverage map on tmobile.com is also really outdated. There are places that have been lit up with LTE for months that still show 2G.

fuziwuzi
Not born yesterday
Premium Member
join:2005-07-01
Palm Springs, CA
Hitron EN2251
Nest H2D

fuziwuzi

Premium Member

Re: Here in VA

said by djeremy:

Their coverage map on tmobile.com is also really outdated. There are places that have been lit up with LTE for months that still show 2G.

Some trolls people will not like you writing that.

graycorgi
Premium Member
join:2004-02-23

graycorgi to Zenit_IIfx

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to Zenit_IIfx
I'll believe their rural coverage is getting better when T-Mobile has something better than barely usable EDGE for the ~100k people in Bristol, TN/VA and surrounding regions. T-Mobile's coverage in northeast TN is embarrassing and nearly nonexistent in southwest VA.

fuziwuzi
Not born yesterday
Premium Member
join:2005-07-01
Palm Springs, CA
Hitron EN2251
Nest H2D

fuziwuzi

Premium Member

Re: Here in VA

I can attest to there not being any coverage in many SW VA areas. My parents live in Patrick County, VA, in the mountains. There is no T-Mobile signal there at all. But then, there is no AT&T signal there, either (as my brother can attest). But, at least I have Wi-Fi calling available to me when I visit and it works great. As soon as I get about 10 miles from my parent's place towards Martinsville, I do get a steady and strong 4G (HSPA+) signal.
cfour
join:2007-08-22
Montgomery, AL

cfour to Zenit_IIfx

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to Zenit_IIfx
I never see mention of using BDA's. When I was working for the City of Montgomery, we were aware of signal loss problems 6 or 8 years ago. After we switched from VHF/UHF communications and went digital, we were rudely awakened to those problems. The best solution for us was to have the City implement an ordinance to require builders and building owners to install bi-directional amplifiers (BDA's). They never passed it that I know of but many owners had it done at their expense. Fire and police try to encourage it for safety reasons. Those buildings that did add the BDA's found they also improved their cell phone usage also. Her in Montgomery it only required two BDA's to cover all cell phone carries at that time. We were only up to 3G then.

Whining
@comcast.net

Whining

Anon

Whining that CURRENT tests don't reflect FUTURE plans

CEO is acting like a little kid by complaining about Roootmetrics tests not reflrcting his plans to expand into rural areas in the future few years. Hey Neville, we live in the present and not in your planned happy future.

Mizzat
Will post for thumbs
Premium Member
join:2003-05-03
Atlanta, GA

Mizzat

Premium Member

Re: Whining that CURRENT tests don't reflect FUTURE plans

If you think he asks like a kid there, you should see his press conferences. I've never seen a company offical curse so much.
BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Wakefield, MA

BosstonesOwn

Member

Re: Whining that CURRENT tests don't reflect FUTURE plans

Nothing wrong with that ! Give me a down to earth CEO any day.
WhatNow
Premium Member
join:2009-05-06
Charlotte, NC

WhatNow

Premium Member

Re: Whining that CURRENT tests don't reflect FUTURE plans

If you have to resort to 4 letter words when speaking to the general public is not OK. One of the things I like about working for the company I work for is they do not allow cursing. On the rare occasions profanity is used you need to walk away before someone hits someone.
BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Wakefield, MA

BosstonesOwn

Member

Re: Whining that CURRENT tests don't reflect FUTURE plans

that is the major problem, sometimes it comes out... It's ok to be human ! No one is perfect. Profanity is not only used during fights... Sometimes it's due to excitement... or because your stumped ! No one is perfect and a swear here or there is ok by me and many of the folks who run these big companies.

K3SGM
- -... ...- -
Premium Member
join:2006-01-17
Columbia, PA

K3SGM to Whining

Premium Member

to Whining
said by Whining :

Hey Neville, we live in the present and not in your planned happy future.

Ray Neville is the CTO not the CEO

dnoyeB
Ferrous Phallus
join:2000-10-09
Southfield, MI

dnoyeB

Member

T-Mobile not awesome

Ive had them for a long time. I don't do much internet stuff so for years I only had WiFi. I've had cellular internet for the last 2 years I guess. In the city its pretty good. In upper michigan its been pretty bad though. I don't complain much because im not a heavy phone internet user. I can always find WiFi somewhere and im used to this to keep my caps down.

But this summer it did work in some rural areas of TN and KY which was pleasant for me and the others on my bus that tethered because their ATT iPhone's wasn't

Nameless1
join:2014-02-25
Lexington, MA

Nameless1

Member

T-Mobile has its pluses and minuses

I have to say, I like T-mobile as a company. I switched from AT&T to them because (a) they're cheaper, (b) they're more customer oriented, and (c) they're not AT&T.

That said, their coverage really does suck in comparison. I often have no service in buildings, and even driving around town I hit dead spots quite a lot. If they would improve their coverage and maintain their customer friendly ways (unlimited international roaming, really? there's something you don't see every day) they would be a force to be reckoned with in the wireless marketplace.

But they DEFINITELY need to improve their coverage.
Bob61571
join:2008-08-08
Washington, IL

Bob61571

Member

TMO lets its Customers use RootMetrics CoverageMap App for Free

(as of May 2013) T-Mobile encouraged its customers to download the RootMetrics CoverageMap app, and use it WITHOUT any of that usage counting against your usage plan!!! So, TMO must have some confidence in RootMetrics and their data!

I have used this extensively to map areas near my home, and those that I have traveled to. Amazed to find that TMO has no data coverage on I-80 and I-55, once you get about 45 minutes outside Chicago. Full data coverage on major Midwest interstate highways should be a no-brainer for any major wireless company.

reference: »www.tmonews.com/2013/03/ ··· etition/

Guy in CA
@209.65.241.x

Guy in CA

Anon

Tried TMO and went back to AT&T

I tired TMO and the experience was painful. In Los Angeles iPhone would show 4G, but switch to Edge at 200 kbps speeds when connecting to the internet. It did better in SF Bay area, 2MB, but AT&T constantly had data speeds up to 10MB, five times faster than TMO on the same phone in the same areas.

cork1958
Cork
Premium Member
join:2000-02-26

cork1958

Premium Member

Re: Tried TMO and went back to AT&T

I had TMO for a couple years quite some time ago. Really liked them, but just like AT&T and Verzion, they pretty much sucked here in the village I live in. Unlike AT&T and Verzion though, TMO worked in the hick towns my in laws live and where my wife works.

Unfortunately,
I will NEVER use Verizon again and thankfully AT&T isn't even available here, as far as I know. Regardless of that, I will NEVER use them either as I totally despise those 2 lying rip off artists!
WhatNow
Premium Member
join:2009-05-06
Charlotte, NC

WhatNow

Premium Member

RootMetrics

Unless this study was different RootMetrics is a volunteer reporting site. You put the app o your phone and manually run tests or allow for them in the back ground. When I look at the T-Mobile map in my area which is rural and towns of 10 - 20k it looks like only one person has used the app. There are T-Mobile stores in the town. If CTO Neville Ray wants better numbers he needs to get his customers or store staff to drive around and collect signal data and upload the data.

All the carriers are up grading so what was true 6 months ago make not be true now. What is true may be determined by who up graded last. I know with at&t my signal and speed has gotten much better even when I am where there is nothing but farm land and I use to lose the signal.

chimchim
join:2005-07-10
Fairfax, VA

chimchim

Member

My T-Mobile experience...

I decided to give T-Mo a try back in August of 2013. I was coming from AT&T. Never had a problem with AT&T as far as coverage was concerned. I Just had a problem with the cost of the service. Enter T-Mo... After more than six months with them, I have to say that I have been very disappointed so far.

I live and work in the Washington DC Metro area. For the most part 4G coverage is very good in the Metro area. The problem starts when you start to travel outside the metro area. My parents live in NC and I take trips down there every now and then. Once you're about 50 miles south of DC, its over. And that wouldn't be so bad if it dropped down to something like 3G instead but that's not the case. The service drops all the way down to 2G and stays that way for 90% of my 5 hour trip to my parents house in NC. I like to use streaming services like Spotify and Pandora when I travel and those services are simply unusable on a 2G network.

I have a blackberry for work that uses Sprint. My day wouldn't be complete unless i got disconnected from someone at least twice a day or got no signal inside certain buildings. Probably the worst combination of service and equipment ever (IMHO). However, T-Mo is starting to make Sprint look like a 5 star service. In buildings where I'm getting 2-3 bars of service on Sprint, I get no service at all on T-Mo. Due to the nature of my job I'm in and out of different buildings all day long and it's pretty much the same thing all the time. The building penetration on T-Mo sucks.

I took a gamble on T-Mo and lost. You win some and you lose some. I guess I'll be going back to AT&T or maybe even Verizon. I really wanted to like T-Mo. They are stirring things up in the industry and getting attention but for me its just not going to work. I get more for my money with T-Mo but what good is it if you can't use it to its full potential.