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T-Mobile, Sprint Not Adhering To New Unlocking Guidelines

If you recall, back in 2013 carriers agreed to a voluntary new set of guidelines requiring they ease off of their phone unlocking restrictions a bit. As part of the agreement carriers had to do a better job communicating their policies, provide clear explanation if they refuse to unlock, and automatically alert users when it's possible for their devices to be unlocked (they apparently really balked at this last one, but ultimately acquiesced).

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Carriers were supposed to have finally implemented all six of the voluntary conditions (clear policies, more lenient postpaid and prepaid policies, eligibility notifications, two-day responses for unlock requests, and auto-unlocked devices for foreign military service members) as of last week.

Sina Khanifar, who you might recall began the White House petition to make cell phone legal again, has completed an analysis of which carriers are doing a good job of adhering to the new guidelines.

Interestingly, despite the company's history with locked devices and anti-competitive behavior, it's Verizon that's managed to adhere to all six of the conditions. T-Mobile and Sprint, often praised as the more consumer-friendly options, still haven't implemented three of the voluntary requirements.

Note these guidelines only go so far anyway, and certainly don't require that carriers offer an unlocked phone at sale.

"It's worth taking a step back and examining the absurdity of these locks," notes Khanifar. "If you've paid for your AT&T phone, committed to a 2-year contract, and agreed to an "early termination fee," what purpose does a lock really serve? If you've paid cash to purchase a prepaid device, why should it come locked to just one carrier?"
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w0g
o.O
join:2001-08-30
Springfield, OR

w0g

Member

honestly they have made unlocking harder

I have had cellphones since 2005. Under contract w/o paying off my device, I unlocked every device I ever bought as simple as calling up T-Mobile ..

When I had Sprint in 2007, they readily provided me the MSL unlock code no hassle by phone.

Typically the unlock codes were used to gain access to new features, debug menus, tweaks, etc.

Now the rules say they only provide the unlock codes if you are traveling internationally and need it unlocked for capable devices, they won't budge from the strict requirement by requirement rules and delays listed on their sites now either..

carpetshark3
Premium Member
join:2004-02-12
Idledale, CO

carpetshark3

Premium Member

Re: honestly they have made unlocking harder

TMO has always unlocked mine. Except for original contract, I always bought outright or used, never subsidized. TMO also puts up with any unlocked phone that has the right bands.
ArizonaSteve
join:2004-01-31
Apache Junction, AZ

ArizonaSteve

Member

Re: honestly they have made unlocking harder

carpetshark3, I don't believe that. Do you have any proof?

TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium Member
join:2000-11-08
Da Bronx
·Verizon FiOS
Ubiquiti NSM5
Synology RT2600ac
Apple AirPort Extreme (2013)

TamaraB

Premium Member

Re: honestly they have made unlocking harder

said by ArizonaSteve:

carpetshark3, I don't believe that. Do you have any proof?

I'll vouch for this. I have 2 iPhones a 5s and a 6+ both paid up front and T-Mo unlocked without any hassle at all.
Guy Waters
join:2001-12-04
San Francisco, CA

Guy Waters

Member

Re: honestly they have made unlocking harder

T-Mobile refused to unlock the iPhone 6 I purchased from them at full price. They required a 40 day wait period. After the 40 days the unlock was processed within a couple of hours. But, if a customer pays full retail price for a phone, they should be able to walk out of the store with the phone unlocked.
tdumaine
Premium Member
join:2004-03-14
Seattle, WA

2 recommendations

tdumaine

Premium Member

Re: honestly they have made unlocking harder

said by Guy Waters:

T-Mobile refused to unlock the iPhone 6 I purchased from them at full price. They required a 40 day wait period. After the 40 days the unlock was processed within a couple of hours. But, if a customer pays full retail price for a phone, they should be able to walk out of the store with the phone unlocked.

Why did you not buy it from apple? Bought my 6+ from them for tmobile, fully unlocked.

C0deZer0
Oc'D To Rhythm And Police
Premium Member
join:2001-10-03
Tempe, AZ

C0deZer0

Premium Member

Re: honestly they have made unlocking harder

Probably had some kind of rebate/coupon/discount that was only applicable at the store in question. I know that was the case with me with the Note 3 I purchased. I was seriously considering an LG G3 instead... but lack of availability for an unlocked G3 at any price, while a Note 3 was right there in stock, and price-matched, was enough to get me over to that.

carpetshark3
Premium Member
join:2004-02-12
Idledale, CO

carpetshark3 to TamaraB

Premium Member

to TamaraB
I'm running a Chinese Oppo Find 7. Has TMO bands and works just fine. It comes unlocked. It has storage, uses an external sd card very efficiently, fairly fast processor and decent camera and replaceable battery.

Probably a Samsung clone without Samsung's crap.
ArizonaSteve
join:2004-01-31
Apache Junction, AZ

ArizonaSteve to TamaraB

Member

to TamaraB
You must have sweet talked someone there to get them to do it. They wouldn't do it for me.

TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium Member
join:2000-11-08
Da Bronx
·Verizon FiOS
Ubiquiti NSM5
Synology RT2600ac
Apple AirPort Extreme (2013)

TamaraB

Premium Member

Re: honestly they have made unlocking harder

said by ArizonaSteve:

You must have sweet talked someone there .....

No. I just called them up, said I wanted to unlock my phone, and it just happened about 2 days later. I've done this twice.

w0g
o.O
join:2001-08-30
Springfield, OR

w0g to ArizonaSteve

Member

to ArizonaSteve
I actually can confirm that T-Mobile will do an unlock IF you buy the device fully up front. That means you cannot have an installment plan - I bought my Galaxy S4 for $600, mother fucks unlocked it, but did make me wait two billing periods.

I gave the excuse that I was 'traveling' abroad soon and needed the code to unlock for foreign carriers.

The first request I put in for the code was denied, the second one was approved..

C0deZer0
Oc'D To Rhythm And Police
Premium Member
join:2001-10-03
Tempe, AZ

C0deZer0 to ArizonaSteve

Premium Member

to ArizonaSteve
I'm using an unlocked Note 3 with T-Mo right now. Found out after the fact that it's an international model.

No carrier bloat whatsoever... and even the H+ speeds are better than I was getting from Boost Mobile(Sprint)'s LTE speeds.

w0g
o.O
join:2001-08-30
Springfield, OR

w0g

Member

Yes it is absurd why the devices are locked in the first place. It has everything to do with tying you down to one carrier. Its so lucrative to prevent your devices from being multi-carrier in America despite the hardware being identical underneath each device.

For devices with the new CDMA, GSM, LTE radios, obviously there isn't a good cause for why those don't work on all four carriers domestically and on all bands world wide. For the GSM/LTE types, there is no good reason those devices aren't designed to be world phones that work on all carriers and bands.

Essentially it comes down to the hardware vendors and carriers deliberately crippled the firmware and programming of each device, preventing its full capabilities from working. But if they were regulated to stop doing this, to enable all bands like say Google has done on some of their Nexus phones, we would have exactly what I describe here..
ArizonaSteve
join:2004-01-31
Apache Junction, AZ

ArizonaSteve to w0g

Member

to w0g
I don't t think anyone will actually do it so you still have to buy the unlock code online. AT&T won't unlock an AT&T phone for me since I'm not a customer and don't have an account there. I tried calling T-Mobile and they all said they didn't know what I was talking about and gave me the run around for several hours. Finally I was transferred to a nice lady in the Philippines who said she would check into it and call me back but never did. I also tried the T-Mobile store but they denied knowing anything about it and when pressed said they didn't do that and to call customer service.

Frank
Premium Member
join:2000-11-03
somewhere

Frank to w0g

Premium Member

to w0g
said by w0g:

When I had Sprint in 2007, they readily provided me the MSL unlock code no hassle by phone.

Typically the unlock codes were used to gain access to new features, debug menus, tweaks, etc.

Now the rules say they only provide the unlock codes if you are traveling internationally and need it unlocked for capable devices, they won't budge from the strict requirement by requirement rules and delays listed on their sites now either..

I had sprint around 2010/2011 and they would not give me the MSL code for the htc evo 4g I had at the time. Did some more research, turns out that thier policy at the time was to not unlock phones, but, if you called citing a specific problem they would give you the code as part of the troubleshooting process. Wound up getting the code that way and was finally able to turn off that stupid proxy that they use so that I could stream siriusxm radio.

graycorgi
Premium Member
join:2004-02-23

graycorgi to w0g

Premium Member

to w0g
Weird. In the past year I have asked for the MSL code on 3 occasions and got it without any grief. I guess it depends who you get on the phone.

w0g
o.O
join:2001-08-30
Springfield, OR

w0g

Member

Re: honestly they have made unlocking harder

their website specifically says now, that the rules require you to be traveling internationally to get the phone unlocked or for you to comply with the itemized requirements, which requires the phone to be fully paid for or contract bought out..

it doesn't say there is an option to get the unlock codes from them any other way, like there used to be . . if the option remains today to get the MSL code/unlock codes, it is not mentioned on the site.

»www.sprint.com/legal/unl ··· icy.html

Sprint's rules here say,

"Unlocking for Domestic Usage

Sprint will unlock a device from Sprint's network under the following circumstances:
%u2022Any associated Service Agreement, Installment Billing Agreement, or Lease Agreement has been fulfilled including payment in full of any applicable early termination fees or end-of-lease purchase options
%u2022The associated account is in good standing
%u2022The device has not been reported as lost or stolen, associated with fraudulent activity, or otherwise flagged as ineligible to be unlocked"

I am not sure if the second option is a way to get it or if it must be met along with the other two options. 'The associated account is in good standing' would be a good policy to allow anyone to unlock.

Before there were no requirements to pay off the contract or to fully purchase the device to get the codes, at least because, you could call and get the code any number of ways. In 2007, I had the code given to me for accessing the advanced options on my Sprint data card on contract, no problems asked when I called Customer Service..
kram1984j
join:2009-12-06

kram1984j to w0g

Member

to w0g
FYI, on Sprint the MSL is provided to you automatically on the website when you activate or swap the active phone on a line
said by w0g:

When I had Sprint in 2007, they readily provided me the MSL unlock code no hassle by phone.

Typically the unlock codes were used to gain access to new features, debug menus, tweaks, etc.

Now the rules say they only provide the unlock codes if you are traveling internationally and need it unlocked for capable devices, they won't budge from the strict requirement by requirement rules and delays listed on their sites now either..


w0g
o.O
join:2001-08-30
Springfield, OR

w0g

Member

Re: honestly they have made unlocking harder

good to know. another possible way to get the code is by hacking your phone. one can sometimes extract the MSL code from internal settings by following methods posted on xda-developers. Applies to android devices only. they used to put in the code that would be visible sort of like a database key that had the value, they took it out - then it became just harder to get. one had to open one of the prompts that asked for it, temporarily the code would be put back into the d-base for extraction, then removed shortly after the prompt was closed, giving you a window to use a tool to get it..

MovieLover76
join:2009-09-11
Cherry Hill, NJ
(Software) pfSense
Asus RT-AC68
Asus RT-AC66

MovieLover76

Member

GSM wins

Ironically T-mobile and AT&T are the only carriers that this really helps because they are GSM based and can accept any GSM device. Verizon the big winner in this survey and Sprint can't do anything with your unlocked device from another carrier because of CDMA policy restrictions.

T-mobile phones are actually probably the most valuable unlocked because they tend to include all AT&T bands for roaming purposes.

This is why I went GSM years ago, T-mobile and AT&T are the only carriers I even consider because I don't want to deal with CDMA restrictions.

It won't be until Verizon and/or Sprint go VoLTE and LTE only that they will really be able to accept devices from other carriers.
sonofsmog
join:2003-09-09
Ontario, CA

sonofsmog

Member

Re: GSM wins

Verizon has always unlocked every phone I have had since the Blackberry Storm (had GSM.) It's as simple as calling them up and telling them you are going overseas. And yes all of Verizon's LTE phones work on global networks.
ArizonaSteve
join:2004-01-31
Apache Junction, AZ

ArizonaSteve

Member

Re: GSM wins

sonofsmog, AT&T won't do that and I don't think VZ will either since I'm not one of their customers and don't have an account with them. I don't see the point of unlocking a VZ phone though since it still won't work any place else.
ISurfTooMuch
join:2007-04-23
Tuscaloosa, AL

ISurfTooMuch

Member

Re: GSM wins

Actually, most VZW phones sold now support GSM. And, for any that also have LTE, they're already unlocked.
ArizonaSteve
join:2004-01-31
Apache Junction, AZ

ArizonaSteve

Member

Re: GSM wins

>And, for any that also have LTE, they're already unlocked.
I've heard that is true for iPhones but other kinds are not unlocked.
The LG that I have certainly is not.

hayabusa3303
Over 200 mph
Premium Member
join:2005-06-29
Florence, SC

hayabusa3303

Premium Member

Re: GSM wins

samsung is unlocked...

MovieLover76
join:2009-09-11
Cherry Hill, NJ

MovieLover76 to sonofsmog

Member

to sonofsmog
I was talking about the fact that you can't bring competitor phones to Verizon or Sprint.

jseymour
join:2009-12-11
Waterford, MI

jseymour

Member

What Means "Lenient Pre- and Post-Paid" Policies?

T-Mobile doesn't subsidize the phone with the service, anymore. Service is contract-less. The device is purchased as a separate thing. So I don't get the "lenient pre-paid" and "lenient post-paid" policies wrt to TMO.

Jim

MovieLover76
join:2009-09-11
Cherry Hill, NJ

MovieLover76

Member

Re: What Means "Lenient Pre- and Post-Paid" Policies?

I think were the difference comes in is phone financing, post-paid users can finance their phone, so they have to wait until the phone is paid off.

Prepaid users have to pay for the device up front.
Hence different rules.
Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

Skippy25 to jseymour

Member

to jseymour
I have a hard time believing carriers "subsidize" phones very much at all anyway.

Phones don't cost anywhere near what they are sold for and I am pretty damn sure that the carriers are selling them for a lot more then they are paying for them.

Regardless, as mentioned you are under a contract and if a contract can bind you in a $40k car and they are confident of getting their money they can certainly do it for a $500 phone.
patt2k
join:2009-01-16

patt2k

Member

VZW

yepp the only good thing about VZW is all (almost) 4G phones are factory SIM - UNLOCKED.

Everytime I go to Europe and someone needs a phone I would always bring a Verizon phone, only iPhone's get LTE for example in my country Poland because they have bands for 1800 mhz LTE.

Usually samsung phones and other androids get H+ which is still good.
SunnyD
join:2009-03-20
Madison, AL

SunnyD

Member

Re: VZW

*Except in the US.

Try using any of Verizon's "Global GSM" phones with a domestic SIM card in it and see what happens. Not exactly "global" if you don't include your own damn country now, is it?

anontool
@50.121.72.x

anontool

Anon

Re: VZW

my vzw lg g3 lg g2 Casio commando c811 all work on every carrier in the us. All came manufactured unlocked straight from vzw. They all worked on all 4 carriers i intentionally tried all 4. All i ever had to do was re-purpose the apn to identify the lte for whatever carrier. Just droping in another carrier sim in the vzw phone all got 3g data and call/text.
mikeluscher159
join:2011-09-04

mikeluscher159 to SunnyD

Member

to SunnyD
Quit your BS. I've got Verizon spec iPhone 5S's and a Droid Turbo, all work on Domestic GSM carriers quite well. Most of T-Mobile's LTE, and roughly 1/2 of AT&T's, plus the assortment of HSPA/HSDPA+, 3G, 2G, GPRS, and Edge.
ArizonaSteve
join:2004-01-31
Apache Junction, AZ

1 edit

ArizonaSteve to patt2k

Member

to patt2k
patt2k, Not true, VZW phones are not unlocked, at least not the one I have which is an LG 4G LTE model. I was thinking about unlocking it and checking to see if it would work on T-Mobile but after some checking I found that VZ uses 700Mhz for LTE and since nobody else does it still wouldn't work anyway.

••••••

EliteData
EliteData
Premium Member
join:2003-07-06
Philippines

EliteData

Premium Member

T-Mobile

ive been a customer of TMO for more than 6 years.
i recently asked them to provide me an unlock code for my samsung galaxy note 2 that i have had since 2013 (i acquired the phone through TMO).
after 4 days, the response i received in email was:
--
"Thank you for taking the time to contact T-Mobile. We have received your SIM Unlock Request. Unfortunately, this subscriber is not eligible to receive the unlock code at this time. In order to be eligible, the subscriber must have used the device within the last 7 days of the request being filed. Please submit a new request once this requirement is met."
--
i have used the phone since i have acquired it from TMO in 2013 and also have used it within and past the 7 days of filing the request for the unlock code.
at that point, i took the easy route and unlocked it myself.
no time for arguments and games.

IowaCowboy
Lost in the Supermarket
Premium Member
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA

IowaCowboy

Premium Member

Id rather see them locked to the country in which they're sold

I'd rather see smartphones be hardware locked to the country in which they're sold but be able to activate on any carrier in the country in which they're sold. The export black market seems to be driving a lot of smartphone theft. Also it drives a lot of fraud with the carriers where people activate an $849 smartphone on subsidy, never pay the bill and sell it overseas for a profit. Then the honest customers have to pay for it.

I personally think it should be illegal for anyone to sell a cell phone intended for activation on a domestic carrier overseas. I do support international roaming, I just want to clamp down on smartphone theft.

The U.S. does have export control laws and I'd like smartphones added to those laws.

Everyone is paying for all the fraud committed against the carriers when people fraudulently obtain smartphones and sell them overseas.

graycorgi
Premium Member
join:2004-02-23

graycorgi

Premium Member

Sprint Clear and Concise

I thought Sprint's policy was pretty clear. I'm not sure how the author found it confusing. MSL doesn't SIM-unlock the phone. International SIM unlock is for devices made before February this year that are not the iPhone 5s/6. Domestic SIM unlock is for future devices. They even provide a chart.

The reason Sprint can't domestic SIM unlock the other phones is because they baked it into the phone software to block domestic SIMs.

I do find the whole "has not unlocked a device within the past 12 months" policy to be absurd.

•••

cb14
join:2013-02-04
Miami Beach, FL

cb14

Member

Not as bad as it sounds.

TMO unlocks the phones for INTERNATIONAL travel; and that's where it really matters. You do not want to use their insane international voice roaming rates and want to get a prepaid SIM at your destination, or use an international travel service like Telna. Unlocking in the US only means that you can take your phone to " ATT" , since the rest uses CDMA. And that makes only sense to people who move out of TMO coverage areas.
So yes , I think that TMO should adhere to the voluntary guidelines, but the impact and damage of not doing so fully is limited.

RARPSL
join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY

RARPSL

Member

Re: Not as bad as it sounds.

said by cb14:

TMO unlocks the phones for INTERNATIONAL travel; and that's where it really matters. You do not want to use their insane international voice roaming rates and want to get a prepaid SIM at your destination, or use an international travel service like Telna. Unlocking in the US only means that you can take your phone to " ATT" , since the rest uses CDMA. And that makes only sense to people who move out of TMO coverage areas.

It is not just moving to an ATT non TMO area. It is just being in one (such as on vacation). So long as you can get an ATT signal but no TMO (and where TMO does not have roaming on ATT) being able to slip an ATT SIM in your phone is useful.

cb14
join:2013-02-04
Miami Beach, FL

cb14

Member

Re: Not as bad as it sounds.

said by RARPSL:

It is not just moving to an ATT non TMO area. It is just being in one (such as on vacation). So long as you can get an ATT signal but no TMO (and where TMO does not have roaming on ATT) being able to slip an ATT SIM in your phone is useful.

If you travel like that within the US I would recommend you to do what I do- get a cheap prepaid pay as you go Verizon phone, a 12 months valid $ 100 plus tax card and set your TMO call forwarding in such a way that your TMO calls are forwarded to your Verizon prepaid whenever you are out of reach. And Verizon has a much better coverage than Tea.Additionally, their Post Paid and pre paid coverage is nearly the same, while "ATT" s prepaid coverage is far less than post paid..

dcurrey
Premium Member
join:2004-06-29
Mason, OH

dcurrey

Premium Member

Sprint is giving Ting major issues.

Seems the new unlocking rules are creating a nightmare for Ting.

Seem you can now BYOD any Sprint phone. Including Boost and virgin. (As long as they had been active on network for 12 months.

It gets ugly when Sprint is reporting the phones haven't meet Sprint’s Financial Eligibility Check. Ie you paid your last bill. Seems you can no longer move your Sprint device to Ting until you pay your final bill with Sprint. This would be the bill you get after your port your number and phone over.

Ting is claiming that Sprints FEC implemented a poor. Its even tagging unlocked phones like Nexus 5,6 Apple 6, 6 Plus and moto X are "financially ineligible”.

The GSM stuff is still in beta haven't paid attention if they are having similar problems with it.
iolaire
join:2001-06-29
Arlington, VA

iolaire

Member

Re: Sprint is giving Ting major issues.

To date FreedomPop is refusing to (internationally) unlock phones they activate on Sprints network. At least Ting will try to internationally unlock phones.
said by dcurrey:

Seems the new unlocking rules are creating a nightmare for Ting.


C0deZer0
Oc'D To Rhythm And Police
Premium Member
join:2001-10-03
Tempe, AZ

C0deZer0

Premium Member

Sprint is in blatant violation

Numerous BBB and FCC complaints, and Sprint is still actively refusing to unlock this iPhone 5. All they'll offer me is the MSL, which I already have. Though as discussed on Apple's own iPhone support forum and Sprint's own iPhone forum, it's evident that the MSL code is absolutely, positively, meaningless on the iPhone. There is simply nowhere or no process to use this supposed "key" anywhere like there is with an Android phone. This seems largely due to some mistaken belief by their frontline (and even their executive) "support" people(!) that this thing has any meaning whatsoever.

Further research, including this OpEd shows that Sprint is very much legally, and ethically, in the wrong. Given the FCC ID's for both are identical, there is no technical reason that a Sprint iPhone 5 is any different than a Verizon iPhone 5. The only difference... is that the Verizon iPhone 5 won't care if you insert a different provider's SIM, and when it comes to the iPhone, Apple needs the CARRIER to submit a formal request, and they'll happily, and fully, unlock it for the customer. It doesn't even need a phone number... just the Serial number of the phone, and maybe the IMEI.

So why in the holiest of holies, does Sprint seem like they'd rather face a colossal lawsuit and/or federal charges for the sake of unlocking a *expletive* iPhone that's already bought and paid for?

Dragasoni
We're All Mad Here
Premium Member
join:2001-12-14
Palm Bay, FL

Dragasoni

Premium Member

Verizon iPhone 4S

I have an iPhone 4S I bought outright from Verizon in March of 2014. I briefly left Verizon after many years of service and switched to MetroPCS, but the LG phone they sold me was crap. So I sold the LG and bought this iPhone 4S I have today.

I popped my old MetroPCS SIM in this iPhone numerous times, and it always displayed "SIM not valid", so I knew it was locked. After hearing the news last week, I called Verizon to get my iPhone unlocked, and they gave me the run around; customer service said to go to the store and the people at the store told me to call customer service.

So, for the hell of it, I decided to pop in my MetroPCS SIM in again. And guess what? It works! At some point Verizon just unlocked my phone without even telling me, which is kind of strange. It's not a fluke either because I switched back and fourth between Verizon and T-Mobile several times now networks without any issues.

Anyway, right now I'm paying $47 a month with tax for unlimited talk/text and 500MB on Verizon..for $50 without tax I can get the same unlimited talk/text with 4GB on MetroPCS. For only $3 I can have 8 times more data, yes please! Needless to say I'll be switching in 2 weeks when my current cycle ends.

-Dragasoni-
whiteyonenh
join:2004-08-09
Keene, NH

whiteyonenh

Member

Re: Verizon iPhone 4S

said by Dragasoni:

Anyway, right now I'm paying $47 a month with tax for unlimited talk/text and 500MB on Verizon..for $50 without tax I can get the same unlimited talk/text with 4GB on MetroPCS. For only $3 I can have 8 times more data, yes please! Needless to say I'll be switching in 2 weeks when my current cycle ends.

Can currently get 5GB on Cricket on ATT's network for $45/mo after auto-pay discount. I personally prefer ATT's network to T-mobile's, but it all depends what has coverage in your area. Good luck!

Dragasoni
We're All Mad Here
Premium Member
join:2001-12-14
Palm Bay, FL

Dragasoni

Premium Member

Re: Verizon iPhone 4S

Well, that's tempting! I live in a fairly large city, over 100,000 people, so every carrier has great coverage here and it doesn't really matter which I use. Thanks for the heads up!

-Dragasoni-