  ropeguruPremium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA | Coming soon... to a tower near you.  | |
|
 GooberPremium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:4 | Disappointed I used to consider T-Mobile among the lesser of all the other evils. But, they're as douchey as any other provider. | |
|
 |  Quake110Premium
join:2003-12-20
Ottawa, ON | Re: Disappointed It's T-Mobile UK though. | |
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| | GooberPremium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:4 | Re: Disappointed Yeah, but still. I guess as long as it doesn't come to the US, I'm okay with it. | |
|
| |  ptrowskiGot Helix?Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
kudos:4
 ·VOIPo
| said by Quake110:It's T-Mobile UK though.
I would consider it a pilot. Once they see it works somewhere else, do not be surprised if it is tried in the states. | |
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| | |  djdanskaRudie32Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
kudos:4 | Re: Disappointed T-Mobile tried that here in america already. Doesn't anybody remember the "new" capped data plans? I think it was like $10 for 250 Mb of data vs. the old unlimited t-zones. They quickly brought the unlimited back. | |
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| | | | ptrowskiGot Helix?Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
kudos:4 | Re: Disappointed Right, but obviously they thought they would try again somewhere else. I usually don't trust any of the major carriers, including the one I use. | |
|
 KoilPremium
join:2002-09-10
Irmo, SC | I don't know UK law... ...but wouldn't this be enough a of a change in contract that they would be able to get out of it in some fashion? That is significantly altering the agreed upon arrangement. | |
|
| GooberPremium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:4 | Re: I don't know UK law... They could, but that kind of stuff is always a hassle. | |
|
| | KoilPremium
join:2002-09-10
Irmo, SC | Re: I don't know UK law... said by Goober:They could, but that kind of stuff is always a hassle.
True, but a £500 cell phone bill is a bit of hassle, as well, innit gubna?  | |
|
| | | Seems to me like a breach of the "mutually agreed upon" (hahaha) contract. I would think it would render the contract void and negate the ETF. I'd at least be willing to go to bat over it. | |
|
|  cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:5
 ·Frontier FiOS
| said by Koil:...but wouldn't this be enough a of a change in contract that they would be able to get out of it in some fashion? That is significantly altering the agreed upon arrangement.
Yes. The laws are similar to what they are here where a significant change in the contract can get you out of a contract. Here in the states, something as little as changing the price for a phone number lookup has been used to void a contract.
For TMo UK, their T&C says:
quote:
We will make a copy of Our current version of these terms and
conditions available on Our website. We can change these terms
and conditions for any good reason, for instance, if We want all
customers on the same conditions. We will tell You about the
change beforehand, as explained here.
2.11.1. If You are a Consumer and the change of terms and
conditions is not of material detriment to You or You are
not a Consumer, We will send You Written Notice 30 days
before the terms and conditions are due to change. The
new terms and conditions will automatically apply to You
once that notice has run out.
2.11.2. If You are a Consumer and the change is of material
detriment to You, We will send You Written Notice 30 days
before the terms and conditions are due to change. The
new terms and conditions will apply to You once that
notice has run out, unless You terminate Your Agreement
with Us within that notice period. If You do this You won’t
have to pay any Cancellation Charge that would otherwise
apply, see point 7.2.3.2.
...
7.2.3. A Cancellation Charge won’t apply if You are within the
Minimum Term and:
7.2.3.1. Our entitlement to operate the Network ends at
any time; or
7.2.3.2. You are a Consumer and the change that We
gave You Written Notice of in point 2.11.2 or 7.1.4
above is of material detriment to You and
You give Us notice to immediately cancel this
Agreement before the change takes effect; or
There are some other possible legal hiccups to consider that are outlined here, so it may not be a slam dunk to terminate a contract penalty free, but if you make enough fuss you probably can. | |
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| | GooberPremium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:4 | Re: I don't know UK law... That bitterwallet article was just a single step away from being total crap. Chasing after a red herring . . . | |
|
| |  pnjunctionTeksavvy ExtremePremium
join:2008-01-24
Toronto, ON
kudos:1 | I don't think that will work. If you read more into the structure there they pull the same trick as they do up here when they separate "Price Plan" from "Additional Services".
Also with regards to 7.2.3.2 (lets you cancel if the terms change) the trick there is that the rate/cap for data isn't part of the terms, it is stated in a separate document:
2.12.1. the Charges and terms and conditions for that
Additional Service may be set out either in Our “What it
Costs (Non Standard Charges)” booklet or in a separate
“What it Costs” booklet for that Additional Service;
Therefore the rates for additional services can change without changing the actual terms, so 2.11.2 is no help.
Looking at section 7.2.3 in more detail completes the picture:
7.2.3. A Cancellation Charge won’t apply if You are within the
Minimum Term and:
7.2.3.1. Our entitlement to operate the Network ends at
any time; or
7.2.3.2. You are a Consumer and the change that We
gave You Written Notice of in point 2.11.2 or 7.1.4
above is of material detriment to You and
You give Us notice to immediately cancel this
Agreement before the change takes effect; or
7.2.3.3. The change that We gave You Written Notice of in
point 7.1.4 is an increase in Your Price Plan
Charge (as a percentage) higher than any
increase in the Retail Price Index (also calculated
as a percentage) for the 12 months before the
month in which We send You Written Notice and
You give Us notice to immediately cancel this
Agreement before the change takes effect.
7.2.3.3 is what lets you cancel if the actual "Price Plan" increases an inordinate amount (7.1.4 also is about Price Plan increases). In summary you can cancel in these 3 situations according to 7.2.3: 1) Their network stops operating 2) They change the 'terms' as outlined in that document (and it is of 'material detriment') 3) They increase the 'Price Plan' charge.
So they can change the prices on 'additional services' without letting you cancel. What can customers do? Well there is something:
2.12.6. We can increase the Charge for that Additional Service
as set out in point 7.1.4. If that happens, points 7.2.3.2
and 7.2.3.3 will also apply to You, so that You can give
Us notice to terminate that Additional Service with a
minimum period without paying the Charge described
in point 2.12.5 above. However, if You also give Us
notice to terminate this entire Agreement as described
in point 7.2.1, then You may have to pay a Cancellation
Charge; and
It seems like you can cancel the additional service, but if you want to cancel the whole thing then you're still on the hook for cancellation of the contract. Not sure how their contracts are structured, around here they do things like minimum $50 plan so if canceling the data brought you under $50 your contract would effectively be canceled.
Whew. Like I said carriers up here pull the same stunt where only a change in the 'base plan' will let you escape while they can rape you on data and other features. Like I was saying what's even more messed up is that customers most often have extra features just to get to the $50 minimum, so you're obligated to keep buying services beyond the 'base plan' but their not obligated to make any commitment to the price/level of those services. | |
|
| | | GooberPremium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:4 | Re: I don't know UK law... I've had no problems cancelling my entire contract based on an increase in "Additional Service" pricing.
Just because it's in the contract doesn't mean it's enforceable. Likely this wouldn't stand up to scrutiny, which is why a large number of people can get cancellations even if the language of the agreement doesn't necessarily seem to allow it.
I never worry about any of that silly contract language. Change any material terms on me after the fact, and I have the right to cancel. Basic contract law. | |
|
|  C0deZer0Oc'D To Rhythm And PolicePremium
join:2001-10-03
Davenport, FL | Contracts like what we have in the states are illegal in the EU regions, and this includes UK as well. they gotta buy the phone outright though.
--
Front Line Force Fortress Forever | |
|
| | They Should Grandfather/Ring Fence to the Old Plans It will be interesting how Tmobile deals with people with subsidized phones who now want to terminate the agreements based on TMobile's material alteration of the contract. | |
|
| | UK Laws Anyone know how UK laws work on what we in the US would call 'Material change of contract'? I would think here you could get out of the contract easily, or at least they would have to grandfather you in. | |
|
| | | Re: UK Laws Considering our US law is based upon "Common Law" which originated in England during the middle ages, I'd say that they have something very similar. | |
|
 Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
join:2002-03-03
USA
kudos:4 |  Marketplace should correct it
The move takes T-Mobile in the opposite direction to rival 3, which has removed any limit on mobile data, keeping with the trend of more and more people accessing services such as video, the web and app stores over their handsets. | |
|
| | T-mobile is dump Att is better, not just in terms of coverage but even features. I don't care about prices or 2 gb cap. Customer service with both sucks. Even sprint has larger coverage than t-mobile. Customer service in retail stores is better with att. A dude who served my dad at tmobile blew me later off at gym on basketball court. At att a dude quickly became aquintqnted with me and I met him at gym a lot. of course it could be reverse but that's how it rolled in my case. Rotfl | |
|
| | | Re: T-mobile is dump Since when did Sprint or AT&T have service in the UK? From what I remember, they have T-Mobile, Orange, Three, and Vodafone... | |
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|  ztmikeMark for moderationPremium
join:2001-08-02
Michigan City, IN | said by Djfheudhdu :Att is better, not just in terms of coverage but even features. I don't care about prices or 2 gb cap. Customer service with both sucks. Even sprint has larger coverage than t-mobile. Customer service in retail stores is better with att. A dude who served my dad at tmobile blew me later off at gym on basketball court. At att a dude quickly became aquintqnted with me and I met him at gym a lot. of course it could be reverse but that's how it rolled in my case. Rotfl
You sir are a idiot. | |
|
| | | | Re: T-mobile is dump Then you don't get my sense of humor. I was joking a little bit. | |
|
| KoilPremium
join:2002-09-10
Irmo, SC | Um...that must be some friend you have there. Does your dad know he did that? | |
|
| | | | Re: T-mobile is dump No, I have not seen this person before retail. My dad could have made a little bad impression on him. Or maybe this guy is gay, likes men and is shy. I don't know. | |
|
| | The solution to this... ...is to not buy a smartphone, and to drop your data plan and use your phone for what it was intended for- phone calls.
The rest of the stuff you can do at home on a computer.
Hit the b@astards where it hurts- in the pocketbook. | |
|
| ztmikeMark for moderationPremium
join:2001-08-02
Michigan City, IN | Re: The solution to this... said by jazzlady:...is to not buy a smartphone, and to drop your data plan and use your phone for what it was intended for- phone calls.
The rest of the stuff you can do at home on a computer.
Hit the b@astards where it hurts- in the pocketbook.
What would be the point of having a smartphone then? Like it or not, the world is about being connected to each other where ever you go.
Facebook is a fine example, or twitter or Myspace..you get the picture. | |
|
| | | | Re: The solution to this... said by ztmike:said by jazzlady:...is to not buy a smartphone, and to drop your data plan and use your phone for what it was intended for- phone calls.
The rest of the stuff you can do at home on a computer.
Hit the b@astards where it hurts- in the pocketbook.
What would be the point of having a smartphone then? Like it or not, the world is about being connected to each other where ever you go. Facebook is a fine example, or twitter or Myspace..you get the picture. That's the point- there *is* no point in having a smartphone.
Yes, the world is about being connected, but 20 years ago people didn't even have cell phones.
Now not only do we all have them, but we can't live without texting, watching video, and annoying all our friends with our "tweets".
The carriers know this, and they will just keep squeezing and draining our wallets, just like the cable companies do with their services.
If people can cut the cable cord, they can certainly live without all the unnecessary cell phone bells and whistles and get back to using the phone for what it was originally intended for- making calls. | |
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| | |  Xioden
join:2008-06-10
Monticello, NY | Re: The solution to this... said by jazzlady:That's the point- there *is* no point in having a smartphone.
Yes, the world is about being connected, but 20 years ago people didn't even have cell phones.
The same thing could be said about computers.
Hell, people could just cut electricity altogether! People used to do without those newfangled refrigerators and light bulbs! | |
|
 SLDPremium
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA | Most users... "most users use just 200 MB" Then why bother with caps? | |
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|
|  tiger72SexaT duorPPremium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1
 ·T-Mobile US
| Re: (PA system) said by Duramax08:"paging gbcue to the front, paging gbcue to the front." Where is gbcue? When theres something about tmobile, hes on it like that.
Heres your sign? more like heres your cap.
TMO UK != TMO USA.
Kinda like VZW != Vodafone
--
"What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning."
-United States Secretary of Defense (1961-1968) Robert S. McNamara | |
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| |  Duramax08A Challenger AppearsPremium
join:2008-08-03
San Antonio, TX | Re: (PA system) I thought tmobile was based from the uk?
Either way its tmobile. Maybe this will jump over the lake? Who knows. | |
|
| | | | Kinda like ATT Wireless != ATT landline or VzW != VZ.
Both T-Mobile USA and T-Mobile UK belong to the same parent company based in Bonn, Germany - Deutsche Telekom! | |
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|
Axekick
join:2005-05-01
Saint Louis, MO Reviews:
 ·Charter
|  won't fly
Personally I come no where near that in an average month. However nor did I purchase a mobile phone to use at home.
As I am paying $108/month for a single line I would quickly tell them to cancel my contract, eat their ETF charges and take my business elsewhere. | |
|
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
| TMobile UK - Questionable Cap Decision Hi Networkers 
TMobile UK is my ISP. I've also posted a review of their service and network performance on this site (If anyone's interested).
I'm guessing a spokesperson at T Mobile UK said:
"As the average mobile internet customer uses only 200MB of data each month... "
In TMobile's defense, 150 service is excellent (but this appears to be because its based offshore) Instore UK tech support and customer email support in the UK can be patchy, sometimes less than fair, heading towards poor. 
I remember in-store when I purchased a new phone on contract, T Mobile Rep clearly stated internet access was "unlimited". This is errant nonsense in light of this new decision.
Sorry, TMobile - More of these kind of questionable restrictions and I'll have to look for a new ISP. Work with your customers, not against them... Please !
Regards, nbwriter | |
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