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T-Mobile: We're 50% More Spectrum Efficient Than Verizon
Company Ramps up Rhetoric Opposing Verizon Cable Deal
by Karl Bode 10:27AM Monday Apr 09 2012
T-Mobile has made it very clear they oppose Verizon's new spectrum and co-marketing deal with the cable industry, in a filing recently warning the deal would create an "excessive concentration of mobile service spectrum holdings that is contrary to the public interest." Now T-Mobile, who was just months ago gleefully being gobbled up by one of the least efficient users of spectrum in the industry, has taken to their blog to criticize Verizon's spectrum usage. Responding to claims by Verizon that they're two-times more efficient in this arena than Verizon, T-Mobile insists they've found the exact opposite:
quote:
An analysis that takes these factors into account reveals that T-Mobile is actually more efficient than Verizon is in all five of the top markets, eight of the top-10 markets, and 31 of the top-49 markets, and that, on average, T-Mobile is 50 percent more efficient than Verizon in the top markets. This is a very different picture than the one Verizon paints for the FCC and the public. T-Mobile announced earlier this year that it would begin repurposing its existing PCS and AWS bands for the deployment of next generation LTE technology. Even with this effort to retool our bandwidth, however, we will need more spectrum to fully deploy LTE across the country.
While it's true Verizon likely wants as much spectrum wiggle room as possible as they expand LTE, their Home Fusion fixed LTE services and their looming over the top Red Box video service -- there's also obviously a great desire to limit the amount of future competitors by keeping publicly owned spectrum in their back pocket.

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VZtech

@rr.com

Conflict of interest

T-mobile was the logical partner for the cable co's. The Verizon wireless business conflicting with their own wireline services is absurd.

Selling Comcast, Brighthouse, Time Warner wireline services in Verizon stores is ridiculous. Verizon should have been endorsing their OWN wireline services in their VZW stores. Whether is be FiOS, or DSL .

mix

join:2002-03-19
Utica, MI

Headline

Perhaps the headline should really read: "T-Mobile: We're 50% More Spectrum Deficient Than Verizon."
flashcore

join:2007-01-23
united state

Re: Headline

I think the proper headline is "T-Mobile: We're 50% More Spectrum Efficient Than Verizion because we have 95% fewer users"

Yes I know that 95% is an extradition the point is with less users you can cram more into less and at at least where I am (Baltimore, MD) their network is crap, the speeds suck and everyone I know who tries them dumps them within a month for AT&T, Verizon or Sprint.
moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD

Re: Headline

said by flashcore:

I think the proper headline is "T-Mobile: We're 50% More Spectrum Efficient Than Verizion because we have 95% fewer users"

Yes I know that 95% is an extradition the point is with less users you can cram more into less and at at least where I am (Baltimore, MD) their network is crap, the speeds suck and everyone I know who tries them dumps them within a month for AT&T, Verizon or Sprint.

Really? I am in the same market and I have no issues.

I can tell you my friends with iPhones hate ATT.
axus

join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC

Is cable using their spectrum at all?

I think Cox tried to do something, but gave up. Verizon will use this spectrum, I don't think T-mobile has a case here. There might be some collusion on the TV/Internet side, but that doesn't affect T-mobile, and nobody has proven that.

FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

Re: Is cable using their spectrum at all?

said by axus:

Verizon will use this spectrum, I don't think T-mobile has a case here. There might be some collusion on the TV/Internet side, but that doesn't affect T-mobile, and nobody has proven that.

Despite those who like conspiracy theories, I don't think that Verizon and the cable companies have some quid-pro-quo where Verizon won't put Fios in to their territories. I think it is what it appears to be on the surface - a marketing deal where the cable companies push Verizon for a quad play pkg instead of AT&T or other wireless provider.

Rob
In Deo speramus.
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
kudos:3

Re: Is cable using their spectrum at all?

said by FFH:

said by axus:

Verizon will use this spectrum, I don't think T-mobile has a case here. There might be some collusion on the TV/Internet side, but that doesn't affect T-mobile, and nobody has proven that.

Despite those who like conspiracy theories, I don't think that Verizon and the cable companies have some quid-pro-quo where Verizon won't put Fios in to their territories. I think it is what it appears to be on the surface - a marketing deal where the cable companies push Verizon for a quad play pkg instead of AT&T or other wireless provider.

Why not? It's not unheard of. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I do believe they have some quid-pro-quo going on.

You think AT&T lets the NSA tap into their network out of the goodness of their heart?
--
CheckSite.us | YourIP.us | Reverseip.us

chlen
Ethically Challenged
Premium
join:2001-01-16
Saratoga, NY

Re: Is cable using their spectrum at all?

said by Rob:

said by FFH:

said by axus:

Verizon will use this spectrum, I don't think T-mobile has a case here. There might be some collusion on the TV/Internet side, but that doesn't affect T-mobile, and nobody has proven that.

Despite those who like conspiracy theories, I don't think that Verizon and the cable companies have some quid-pro-quo where Verizon won't put Fios in to their territories. I think it is what it appears to be on the surface - a marketing deal where the cable companies push Verizon for a quad play pkg instead of AT&T or other wireless provider.

Why not? It's not unheard of. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I do believe they have some quid-pro-quo going on.

You think AT&T lets the NSA tap into their network out of the goodness of their heart?

not at all in fact it is law CALEA »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communicat···ment_Act
--
This is not the greatest post in the world, no, this is just a tribute!

-
openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
Backroom deal or not, what does it honestly matter? Both Verizon and AT&T have stated they are done building out their next gen of wireline infrastructure for now. The deal between Verizon and the cable group is value-added for everyone involved...to include the consumer IMO.

ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

3 edits

Re: Is cable using their spectrum at all?

"done" , for now. For the rest of eternity, I guess you'd assume they'd continue to maintain their copper network; right? Nope, the actual plan RIGHT NOW is to make a deal with those cable companies and withdraw from their wireline business/responsibilities altogether. Thats good for consumers, right? One wireline choice? The competitive thing to do is to finish their FiOS deployment across their footprint, even allow clec access to FiOS, with limitations, in order to take down the aging copper.

Does anything they state "honestly matter"? We're talking about a billion dollar company that passed 400,000+ homes with FioS, then sold it to Frontier. Whatever they " state " can be changed the very next day.

Whether is be " next gen " or not, Verizon has engaged in a deal that will be anti-competive to their wireline network. End of story.
openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2

Re: Is cable using their spectrum at all?

said by ITALIAN926:

"done" , for now. For the rest of eternity, I guess you'd assume they'd continue to maintain their copper network; right?

No. I repeat(my emphasis now included).
said by openbox9:

Both Verizon and AT&T have stated they are done building out their next gen of wireline infrastructure for now.



said by ITALIAN926:

Whether is be " next gen " or not, Verizon has engaged in a deal that will be anti-competive to their wireline network.

So, will Verizon Wireless stores be hawking cable TV services in Verizon FiOS TV markets?

ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2

Re: Is cable using their spectrum at all?

Maybe, maybe not. Why are you limiting your sample to TV services? What about areas that have FioS internet but no TV franchise agreements? What about areas that have only landlines/ DSL ? FiOS TV is not the only product at stake here.
openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2

Re: Is cable using their spectrum at all?

said by ITALIAN926:

Maybe, maybe not.

Isn't that a fundamental question that needs to be answered before everyone flies off the handle?

I assume the concern is over the alleged "conflict of interest" between cable TV and FiOS TV. In non-TV FiOS markets and DSL markets, I don't see an issue with Verizon reselling cable company pay TV services.

ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

1 edit

Re: Is cable using their spectrum at all?

The VZW stores will be selling the cable triple plays (internet AND phone) , not just TV service. You dont think this interferes with Verizons own DSL and landline business? Which part of this is complicated?. Wake up.

Edit: And your "fundamental question" is moot. This deal with thwart any potential plans to expand FiOS further. And once again, what they say today regarding FiOS expansion is 100% irrelevant.
openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2

Re: Is cable using their spectrum at all?

said by ITALIAN926:

The VZW stores will be selling the cable triple plays (internet AND phone) , not just TV service.

In Verizon LEC markets?
said by ITALIAN926:

Edit: And your "fundamental question" is moot. This deal with thwart any potential plans to expand FiOS further. And once again, what they say today regarding FiOS expansion is 100% irrelevant.

It certainly is not a moot point. You don't even know where this reselling arrangement is being employed.
sonicmerlin

join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:1

1 recommendation

Re: Is cable using their spectrum at all?

said by openbox9:

It certainly is not a moot point. You don't even know where this reselling arrangement is being employed.

A tiny bit of common sense (as opposed to your proclivity to feign ignorance of corporations' underlying motives) will lead a rational observer to see where this deal is ultimately leading.
openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2

Re: Is cable using their spectrum at all?

You're right. We should all jump to conclusions instead of asking simple questions.
25139889

join:2011-10-25
Toledo, OH

1 recommendation

Nobody was using anything. Cox was building a CDMA network but later gave up in hopes to use Sprint's CDMA network as an MVNO. Something the MSOs do ALL the time and always give up on.

They don't want to be a cell phone company and they've already made that clear. If they did; the SpectrumCo partners could have easily built out a national carrier with no problems and roamed together on the network.
34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON

1 edit

Re: Is cable using their spectrum at all?

said by 25139889:

Nobody was using anything. Cox was building a CDMA network but later gave up in hopes to use Sprint's CDMA network as an MVNO. Something the MSOs do ALL the time and always give up on.

They don't want to be a cell phone company and they've already made that clear. If they did; the SpectrumCo partners could have easily built out a national carrier with no problems and roamed together on the network.

They gave up because it was costing too much.

mech1164
I'll Be Back

join:2001-11-19
Lodi, NJ

A Point

Tmo has a point in that this is giving one competitor and greatly enhanced position in regards to the rest of the industry. Just as if they had been taken over by ATT and the competition would have been lessen. This to would be adverse to the remainder. Never mind the anti competitive nature that was to be worked in with cable. There are too many things wrong with this to let it proceed. Just depends now on how much VZW is willing to lobby (coerces, bribe ect.) to get this done. That is the truly sad part.
Sammer

join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA

Re: A Point

It's also true that if this wasn't anti-competitive there would be no need to tie the marketing agreement to the sale of the spectrum licenses.
sonicmerlin

join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:1

Re: A Point

said by Sammer:

It's also true that if this wasn't anti-competitive there would be no need to tie the marketing agreement to the sale of the spectrum licenses.

Also no one seems to mention how AT&T and Verizon keep gobbling up all the available spectrum. Right after the T-Mobile deal fell through, AT&T bought Qualcomm's spectrum. This Verizon deal needs to fall through, and the sale of spectrum rejected. A smaller competitor, such as T-Mobile, Leap, MetroPCS, etc. needs to have that spectrum.
markinect

join:2011-01-20
Lansing, MI
YES yes YES..... ANY move that leads to at&t being the only real players is a bad move.
BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH

They each claim they are more efficient

Verizon actually is, as they use most of their spectrum. T-Mobile has maybe 10% of their AWS spectrum deployed, probably less than that.
WiWavelength

join:2011-11-16
Lawrence, KS

Re: They each claim they are more efficient

said by BiggA:

Verizon actually is, as they use most of their spectrum. T-Mobile has maybe 10% of their AWS spectrum deployed, probably less than that.

How much of its AWS 2100+1700 MHz and Lower 700 MHz spectrum is VZW actually using? (And, yes, that is a rhetorical question.)

AJ
BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH

Re: They each claim they are more efficient

When they deploy, they deploy. Like the C-block, they will have over 100% of their network deployed on that spectrum by mid-2013. Much of even T-Mobile's puny network doesn't have AWS spectrum deployed.
WiWavelength

join:2011-11-16
Lawrence, KS

Re: They each claim they are more efficient

said by BiggA:

When they deploy, they deploy.

Ah, so that caveat is okay for VZW but not for T-Mobile. Your logical inconsistency undermines your argument.

AJ
BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH

Re: They each claim they are more efficient

When Verizon deploys spectrum, they deploy it on their entire network. T-Mobile doesn't. Yes, there are other factors, but overall, T-Mobile deploys much less of their spectrum, even if you look at it on a mhz*mi^2 or something basis with corrections for relative spectrum holdings for both, Verizon comes out way ahead.

T-Mobile probably does better in the 'hood, as they have more towers there than Verizon, but that's not worth much if that's the only place they are covering.

Offloading smartphone data has nothing to do with deploying spectrum. It can increase capacity on a given piece of spectrum, or avoid using it for some traffic all-together (Wifi calling), but it has nothing to do with whether it is deployed in the first place or not.
sonicmerlin

join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:1
said by BiggA:

Verizon actually is, as they use most of their spectrum. T-Mobile has maybe 10% of their AWS spectrum deployed, probably less than that.

No they're not. Verizon is very averse to using femtocells or offloading smartphone data consumption to Wi-Fi.

xmark

@tmodns.net

hello

Everyone claims tmobile coverage suck and getting some spectrum wouldn't hurt , well here we have some that's available today right now & the company that needs it the most won't be getting any in the near future. Sounds anticompetitive to me
daake07

join:2011-06-28
Kearney, NE

I'm still supporting Verizon

I've said this many times on the cable industry deal, I fully support it. They purchased spectrum legally because they have the finances to do so. They are not planning on rolling out FiOS and haven't since 2010 or 2011. They've already sold off a majority of their landline business and realistically their DSL wasn't even competition to the cable companies.

T-Mobile should stop complaining and instead should join the companies buying the spectrum. They actually have no native coverage in my area and I'm not sure they do anywhere in Nebraska outside of Lincoln/Omaha. My area is included on Sprint's Network Vision for LTE and USCellular just purchased 700Mhz spectrum to presumably build out an LTE network in the future, but T-Mobile and AT&T both roam off Viaero.

88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

T-mobile is off base

Ok first of all if this deal gets blocked that doesn't help anyone since these cable companies are just sitting on this spectrum anyways. Until the FCC forces them to use it how does cable squatting on spectrum help anyone?

Second the FCC is going to auction off TV spectrum. If Verizon can't get spectrum form this deal it'll juts outbid T-Mobile for that spectrum. Is T-Mobile going to whine about that too? $3.6 billion for this spectrum is $3.6 bil less they have to spend for TV spectrum.

If cable can't sell to Verizon and they don't squat on the spectrum them they'll just sell to

at&t - Of course T-Mobile will complain about that
Sprint - T-Mobile will complain about that
t-mobile - which T-Mobile will be happy about of course Verizon, at&t and Sprint should all complain about that since that makes T-Mobile complete hypocrites.

So really T-Mobile needs to STFU already.