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T-Mobile's Plan B Is Probably the Cable Industry
T-Mobile Needs Spectrum, Cable Industry Has it
by Karl Bode 06:10PM Monday Oct 24 2011
AT&T is trying to salvage their plan to acquire T-Mobile by proposing an alternative that involves offloading assets to a smaller company like MetroPCS. With AT&T's political cash and muscle it remains likely the deal still goes through, but should it fail -- T-Mobile could be making close friends with the cable industry.

Sprint is building their own LTE network and the future of the current cable-industry BFF, Clearwire, remains in flux. Meanwhile, companies like Comcast and Time Warner Cable currently hold ample spectrum that T-Mobile would need in a future that doesn't involve AT&T. As such, a cable industry T-Mobile hookup is what Sanford Bernstein analysts are predicting in a research note to investors this week:
quote:
In a report issued Friday, Sanford C. Bernstein & Co. Inc. analysts Robin Bienenstock and Craig Moffett note that Comcast and TW Cable together hold a 20MHz block of the 1,700/2,100MHz Advanced Wireless Services (AWS) spectrum that covers about 80 percent of the U.S., and it happens to be the kind of capacity that "would drop neatly and easily into T-Mobile's existing towers." Considering T-Mobile's near-term spectrum issues and the fact that auctions are still well out on the horizon, "a deal with Comcast and Time Warner Cable for spectrum therefore looks appealing and is very likely the principal Plan B. Or, if you will, the new Plan A," the firm notes.
The analysts also note this would be a way for the cable industry to dodge the FCC's complaints that the cable industry is sitting on a lot of unused spectrum. As we've noted previously, companies like Cablevision have filed merger complaints with the FCC stating that they'd like to strike a deal with T-Mobile, but that AT&T ownership would make that all-but impossible. Again though, the question is what happens to Clearwire; that's a question everyone has been asking a lot lately.

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Metatron2008
Premium
join:2008-09-02
united state

Would be better than at&t

But that's like saying getting a cold is better then being kicked in the nuts.

corster
Premium
join:2002-02-23
Gatineau, QC

Not to mention

The spectrum T-Mobile gets from AT&Fee as compensation should the deal fall through...
--
Ontario can lead again with Tim Hudak and the Ontario PC Party on October 6th

Jim_in_VA

join:2004-07-11
Cobbs Creek, VA
kudos:4

Clearwire is a

dead end. They should just sell off their spectrum assets to Sprint and get out of the business
--
... need help? »evdo-tips.com/
AVonGauss
Premium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL

Re: Clearwire is a

I can't believe I'm saying, but I would rather Comcast or Time Warner buy T-Mobile than Sprint. Nothing against Sprint per se, but they have their own issues they still need to work out.

Jim_in_VA

join:2004-07-11
Cobbs Creek, VA
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Metrocast Commun..

Re: Clearwire is a

Sprint buying T-Mobile would be worst than their failed Nextel purchase. Two totally different technologies GSM vs CDMA .. don't want to go there again
--
... need help? »evdo-tips.com/

HaloFans

join:2006-12-18

Re: Clearwire is a

If you actually read the slides from the Sprint conference earlier this month (October), you would have seen that Sprint intends to build LTE using T-Mobile's current spectrum.

Jim_in_VA

join:2004-07-11
Cobbs Creek, VA
kudos:4

Re: Clearwire is a

source?

HaloFans

join:2006-12-18

Re: Clearwire is a

»www-bgr-com.vimg.net/wp-content/···x430.jpg

Doesn't T-Mobile run its GSM network on 1900 MHz?

Original article: »www.bgr.com/2011/10/07/live-from···e-event/

Jim_in_VA

join:2004-07-11
Cobbs Creek, VA
kudos:4

Re: Clearwire is a

yes it does, however GSM and CDMA are not compatible
--
... need help? »evdo-tips.com/

HaloFans

join:2006-12-18

Re: Clearwire is a

No, they are not.

You do see now why Sprint is angry at the merger.

However, that bitterness doesn't translate that AT&T is any better. You know AT&T was given a lot of money from tax breaks to build fiber optic internet a decade ago, and they did not. They made a lot of promises, but did not fulfill any of them.

Verizon (landline) is equally guilty.

Jim_in_VA

join:2004-07-11
Cobbs Creek, VA
kudos:4

Re: Clearwire is a

I see they don't want to be the 'third best'
--
... need help? »evdo-tips.com/

HaloFans

join:2006-12-18

Re: Clearwire is a

I hope you're not insinuating that AT&T and Verizon are better corporations as that would be completely naive to say that.

Jim_in_VA

join:2004-07-11
Cobbs Creek, VA
kudos:4

Re: Clearwire is a

They are better in that they have positive earnings and cash flow .. but 'better corporations' in the sense of consumer sentiment? Nope
--
... need help? »evdo-tips.com/
elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·EarthLink
said by HaloFans:

However, that bitterness doesn't translate that AT&T is any better. You know AT&T was given a lot of money from tax breaks to build fiber optic internet a decade ago, and they did not. They made a lot of promises, but did not fulfill any of them.

Verizon (landline) is equally guilty.

Just exactly what "tax breaks" were they given?
I never heard of such, though it wouldn't surprise me with Billy Tauzin on the payroll.

What promises did they "not fulfill" ?

I'm not really impressed with either landline company, but you'd be hard pressed to argue they haven't been busy building up their product lines and delivering substantial upgrades in broadband service.

HaloFans

join:2006-12-18

Re: Clearwire is a

»www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/2007···683.html

Book: »www.teletruth.org/docs/broadband···free.pdf
etaadmin

join:2002-01-17
Dallas, TX
kudos:1

Re: Clearwire is a

He, he, suddenly everybody just shut up.

Thanks for the links I have been looking for them for a long time.
elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·EarthLink
Thanks for the cites.

While they're not exactly unbiased (considering the first source), and some of the content is not germane, the second link speaks in volume to the spirit of the populist complaints we see so often here. I'll be giving my printer a workout this evening, and consuming the tome over the weekend.
sonicmerlin

join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:1

Re: Clearwire is a

said by elray:

Thanks for the cites.

While they're not exactly unbiased (considering the first source), and some of the content is not germane, the second link speaks in volume to the spirit of the populist complaints we see so often here. I'll be giving my printer a workout this evening, and consuming the tome over the weekend.

You think NPR is biased? Are you freaking serious?
elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·EarthLink

Re: Clearwire is a

said by sonicmerlin:

said by elray:

Thanks for the cites.

While they're not exactly unbiased (considering the first source), and some of the content is not germane, the second link speaks in volume to the spirit of the populist complaints we see so often here. I'll be giving my printer a workout this evening, and consuming the tome over the weekend.

You think NPR is biased? Are you freaking serious?

Of course its biased. All media are biased.

The difference with NPR is that it uses taxpayer funds to blast its propaganda and simultaneously drapes itself in a "non-profit" halo.
sonicmerlin

join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:1

Re: Clearwire is a

said by elray:

said by sonicmerlin:

said by elray:

Thanks for the cites.

While they're not exactly unbiased (considering the first source), and some of the content is not germane, the second link speaks in volume to the spirit of the populist complaints we see so often here. I'll be giving my printer a workout this evening, and consuming the tome over the weekend.

You think NPR is biased? Are you freaking serious?

Of course its biased. All media are biased.

The difference with NPR is that it uses taxpayer funds to blast its propaganda and simultaneously drapes itself in a "non-profit" halo.

What evidence do you have that NPR is biased or "blasts propaganda"? Show me some examples.

Matt3
All noise, no signal.
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12
said by Jim_in_VA:

yes it does, however GSM and CDMA are not compatible

With the Sprint Vision network retrofit, adding GSM support is a simple matter of plugging a blade into the base station.

Although why support a dying technology? Just migrate the TMo customers from GSM to LTE like AT&T did when they migrated Orange to Blue after the Cingular merger.

Jim_in_VA

join:2004-07-11
Cobbs Creek, VA
kudos:4

Re: Clearwire is a

that is the baseline ... LTE

BUCKEYECOM

@buckeyecom.net
because migrating those customers from GSM to CDMA would kill those of us that enjoy our TMO coverage and services the way it is. If we were migrated now to CMDA it would kill what we get- especially our wifi/uma calling. Something Sprint does NOT offer nor will ever. They have their cheap POS AiRaves that are suppose to do that but only at home. Also we can use our phones in 50% of the world without unlocking the phone nor moving to a provider there. We just put on the Wifi Calling. Again, something Sprint only dreams of offering.

Sprint would KILL TMO-USA and the entire company would tank- just as they killed and ruined Nextel that ended up hurting the Sprint Brand.
iFail 5G

join:2011-08-03
said by Matt3:

said by Jim_in_VA:

yes it does, however GSM and CDMA are not compatible

With the Sprint Vision network retrofit, adding GSM support is a simple matter of plugging a blade into the base station.

Although why support a dying technology? Just migrate the TMo customers from GSM to LTE like AT&T did when they migrated Orange to Blue after the Cingular merger.

Having a *Vision* vs. putting it into order are two completely separate things. They need to have the capital and barely have enough to do network vision. They are way behind even T-Mobile in terms of having a 4G network and they haven't even migrated the network they acquired in 05".

tiger72
SexaT duorP
Premium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1
said by Jim_in_VA:

yes it does, however GSM and CDMA are not compatible

In 2 years, that's not going to matter. As soon as VoLTE is production-ready, T-Mobile's GSM network would get shuttered. 3 years ago, the whole CDMA vs GSM talking point had sway. Nowadays? Notsomuch. It's played out, and it's no longer an obstacle. The industry has changed, and it's consolidating onto HSPA+ and LTE.

If Sprint bought T-Mobile, they could keep their CDMA network for their prepaid/industry mobile network, use HSPA+ for their workhorse (by adding Sprint/Clear AWS spectrum), and use LTE for the future.

But of course, this is all moot, since Sprint doesn't have nearly the available cash and options as incentive to entice Deutsche Telekom.
--
"What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning."
-United States Secretary of Defense (1961-1968) Robert S. McNamara

RARPSL

join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY
said by HaloFans:

»www-bgr-com.vimg.net/wp-content/···x430.jpg

Doesn't T-Mobile run its GSM network on 1900 MHz?

No - They use 1700 Mhz for their 3G/4G Data Frequency (and thus are not compatible with AT&T's 1900Mhz 3G/4G frequency). This is why T-Mobile was refused the right to sell the new iPhone 4S (since Apple did not bother to include this frequency in that phone). This lack of support by Apple is IMO due to some pressure from AT&T to make their takeover of T-Mobile easier. The design of the iPhone 4S started BEFORE AT&T started their T-Mobile acquisition efforts so that event was not what stopped the addition of the frequency in the device. BTW: Pre-iPhone 4S T-Mobile had a 3% share of all iPhones due to their selling of the needed SIM/mini-SIM. Those users were just restricted to the EDGE network.

HaloFans

join:2006-12-18

Re: Clearwire is a

What's the frequency that T-Mobile uses for phone calls and text messages?
iFail 5G

join:2011-08-03

Re: Clearwire is a

said by HaloFans:

What's the frequency that T-Mobile uses for phone calls and text messages?

It depends on which network, T-Mobile like AT&T is essentially running two different networks. If you are on the GSM network, then 1900mhz, on UMTS/HSPA+ its AWS 1700/2100

RARPSL

join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY

Re: Clearwire is a

said by iFail 5G:

said by HaloFans:

What's the frequency that T-Mobile uses for phone calls and text messages?

It depends on which network, T-Mobile like AT&T is essentially running two different networks. If you are on the GSM network, then 1900mhz, on UMTS/HSPA+ its AWS 1700/2100

The UMTS/HSPA+ is their 3G/4g DATA (ie: Internet) Network. The Phone and Text are 1900 Mhz (which is why the iPhone can work as a PHONE with T-Mobile SIMs/Mini-SIMs). They also share the same frequency (I do not remember which it is) as AT&T's EDGE Network so the iPhone falls back to EDGE for Data usage when not in an T-Mobile (or T-Mobile Roaming) area.

HaloFans

join:2006-12-18

Re: Clearwire is a

I said 1900 MHz, so why were you arguing with me earlier?

CCNnorthcali

join:2004-03-07
San Francisco, CA
The iPhone works fine on T-mobile's network as a phone, it's only restriction is EDGE data.

whfsdude
Premium
join:2003-04-05
Washington, DC
Reviews:
·Comcast

said by RARPSL See Profile
The UMTS/HSPA+ is their 3G/4g DATA (ie: Internet) Network. The Phone and Text are 1900 Mhz (which is why the iPhone can work as a PHONE with T-Mobile SIMs/Mini-SIMs).

UMTS/HSPA+ can actually handle voice and SMS. For example, I turned off my 2G radio in my Nexus One and am only using AWS 1700/2100 for everything.

In contrast to LTE and WiMax which at this time cannot handle voice. (In any case, they're likely to use a VoIP/SIP based service in the future).
iFail 5G

join:2011-08-03
said by RARPSL:

said by iFail 5G:

said by HaloFans:

What's the frequency that T-Mobile uses for phone calls and text messages?

It depends on which network, T-Mobile like AT&T is essentially running two different networks. If you are on the GSM network, then 1900mhz, on UMTS/HSPA+ its AWS 1700/2100

The UMTS/HSPA+ is their 3G/4g DATA (ie: Internet) Network. The Phone and Text are 1900 Mhz (which is why the iPhone can work as a PHONE with T-Mobile SIMs/Mini-SIMs). They also share the same frequency (I do not remember which it is) as AT&T's EDGE Network so the iPhone falls back to EDGE for Data usage when not in an T-Mobile (or T-Mobile Roaming) area.

Huh? No, GSM is their *legacy* network which runs on the PCS 1900mhz block, AT&T also runs GSM in 1900 and 850mhz. Both carriers have chosen the next upgrade path as UMTS/HSPA+ which for AT&T run's on 850/1900,. T-Mobile's run's on AWS 1700/2100 mhz.

UMTS/HSPA+ carry's voice and SMS + data all at the same time. If you are connected to UMTS then you are not connected to GSM/EDGE at all.

When you put a T-Mobile SIM into an iPhone it looks for UMTS on 1900/850mhz but cannot find it so it reverts down to T-Mobile's older GSM network.

tellie

@comcast.net
yes even though the qualcom chip apple uses in the iPhone DOES support the AWS frequency that Tmobile uses.
do some homework on the gobi3000 and sierra wireless cards..
chgo_man99

join:2010-01-01
San Jose, CA

question is: will clear keep "unlimited" 4g

now that Sprint has decided to kill unlimited data?

HaloFans

join:2006-12-18

Re: question is: will clear keep "unlimited" 4g

So much FUD.

It's no secret that for tethering, Sprint always had an invisible cap around 5GB. The press confirms that it's true.

The data is still unlimited for smartphone use.
chgo_man99

join:2010-01-01
San Jose, CA

Re: question is: will clear keep "unlimited" 4g

Explains while data prioritization have been always higher on sprint plan than clear plan even though same towers for 4g.
williamthril0

join:2011-06-05
Mcallen, TX

Google

I would think a Google purchase is more likely.

BUCKEYECOM

@buckeyecom.net

Re: Google

NEVER will happen. Google has been under fire lately more and more by the FDA and the DOJ. Plus their in bed with CellCo.
praetoralpha

join:2005-08-06
Pittsburgh, PA

Re: Google

FDA???? Is Google selling bad food nowadays? Or making drugs that turn people's eyeballs inside out?
RDC17

join:2011-05-15
Baltimore, MD

Polar opposites

The cable cos would rather stab their eyes out than play nice with T-Mobile's pricing levels.
romulusnr

join:2007-08-01
Federal Way, WA

Huh? Now they need spectrum?

I thought the whole point of the TMO-ATT merger was that TMO had all this spectrum but no means to deploy it, while ATT had all the means to deploy it but was low on spectrum.

Now TMO needs spectrum? How does that affect the merger calculations?

(Oh, right, it's so that ATT can be the majority player in wireless, I forgot.)

•••
mogamer

join:2011-04-20
Royal Oak, MI

Good for wireless industry.

I wouldn't have a problem with the cabelcos buying T-Mobile. The wireless industry in this country needs another player with money to invest. Something Sprint lacks now and probably will forever. Even Google buying T-Mobile would be better for the consumer than ATT.

Right now we have the Big Two, the Weak Two and the Bit Players in wireless. If T-Mobile falls to ATT, then Sprint will go to Verizion. No way could Sprint survive as one of the Bit Players. This will really kill innovation and competition in this country.
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS

choices, sigh...

Well, it's an interesting choice...

A. Germany bails out Greece
B. Germany finances DT/Tmobile's 4g build

Ah, choices, choices.. it looks like they don't want to do either...

What happened to the good old days of stealing cutting edge high margin manufacturing contracts from China and Japan?