 
DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey | Not surprised How could the telcos spend all that money, price it lower ? They would have to recoup the cost somehow and keeping the price close to or the same as cable is the way... | |
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 | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: Not surprised They can't! ... and the guy's right.. there is going to be no price wars. The biggest fact that people forget is that the networks set most of the prices.. the rest of the real world and market dictate the remaining small portion of the price. The cost of gas, insurance, labor, etc. dictate the rest. Then let's not forget that they need extra money for continued re-investment.
This is why you see about $5 or abouts difference in price.
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"Complaining is the least path of resistance for the self-reitchous and lazy ... those who also never take the time to point out a good fortune when the opportunity presents itself. It says a lot about one's moral character." - Unknown | |
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nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD | I'm shocked, just shocked! why who would have thought that our duopoly/monopoly TV industry wouldn't be bringing us lower prices with this great new "competition" from the telcos!
and they promised! | |
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celeritypc
For Lucky Best Wash, Use Mr. Sparkle
Premium
join:2004-05-15
Caldwell, NJ
| The real answer is...Yes...and No In the long run, prices will not go down. They always go up. The programming costs are the same whether you are a cable co or a telco. What does happen (as is happening in states with cable/telco competition) is that consumers are in a better negotiating position with either company to get a deal. This process is a proactive one in which the consumer must pursue the deal. Consumers can't expect to wait for "prices to drop" as it will not happen. Also, it pays to bundle in order to get a deal. If you want cheaper tv, you have to take internet and phone as well from the same provider. If anything, there are options, but that is what life is about.
The real culprit here is the programming. Regulating or playing the providers off one another does nothing to stop the way companies like Disney, Viacom or NBC/Universal play with programming costs and force providers into taking other channels to keep the most popular ones. Also, sports programming a la ESPN et al is the single most expensive component of programming costs. Until people say "Enough is enough," we will continue to get hammered by these costs whether we view sports or not. | |
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| nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
 ·Comcast
| Re: The real answer is...Yes...and No you know, programming is one of the issues in pricing, but the cable and telcos could also take a smaller profit and lower prices.
that's actually a traditional way of getting new customers - offer a better price point than the competition.
Besides the fact that there isn't real competition with only two companies offering a service, neither company really wants to compete anyway. The preferred method of doing business seems more to rely on lobbying local and national government for advantageous legislation and offering bundles that make it difficult to compare features.
I would bet that programming costs could go down, but cable prices wouldn't go down. Programming costs are just a convenient excuse for raising rates. | |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Re: The real answer is...Yes...and No Hasn't Comcast been producing high profits for the last few years ?
In general - I agree, investors want (demand?) a decent ROI, and why would investors pump money into something that will not bring a decent return. | |
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GOLFnSUN
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| Re: The real answer is...Yes...and No said by en102  :Hasn't Comcast been producing high profits for the last few years ? Profit $'s yes. But their profit percentage on revenue was 4% and their Return on Assets was only 1%.
They have large revenues, but the cable industry has huge capital costs(in their infrastructure) and in operating costs to maintain that infrastructure. So profits are not any where near excessive. The profits are barely enough to keep investors from fleeing to other opportunities.
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My Web Page | |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
 ·DSL EXTREME
| Re: The real answer is...Yes...and No You'll also find that most packages (bundled tv/hsi or phone/dsl) are not that different in price with the exception of intro pricing. When I was on Comcast, they were more expensive than POTS/DSL/DirecTv on every service except for digital phone, where their price was the same.
TimeWarner is more competitive, where their TV service (digital) is pretty much the same as DirecTv, and they have a lower priced tier for HSI (1.5/384), and offer bundle incentives. I can assume that the 'average' person (not highschool age, or gamer) doesn't need the 8Mbps/768kbps package. I do remote work on VPN/SSH/X-11/Remote Desktop, and 2.5Mbps/512kbps is fine for me... and I've been doing this for 3 years.
Having high availability tiers for those wanting to pay $$$ is a good revenue generator, especially if it isn't that difficult to implement. Having a low/basic tier for some (cable) is difficult, as they don't _really_ want low end options. | |
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NEP1611
join:2002-03-27
Northford, CT
| I do think this guy is right, to a point. Regardless of how many players are in the game, people are still going to want ESPN and other high demand channels. These channels cost money, and it is not realistic to expect the cable and satellite companies to absorb the cost.
What this guy failed to mention is that in fact there already IS competition, in the form of DirecTV and Dish Network (setting aside whether some specific households may not have access to satellite) Adding another player at this point in the form of the telcos will not decrease prices, their effect would be to provide an additional option for customers.
Where the real benefit will be is as far as services provided. Companies may be more aggressive in rolling out high-definition DVRs, for instance, or bidding for exclusive rights on certain programming.
Regarding prices, what everyone forgets is that both the cable companies and satellite companies have various packages that are targeted at different price points, and they each offer a different mix of products. If you want to spend $50 a month on pay TV, chances are there is an option that is viable, if not exactly what you're looking for. | |
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| | | HyPeRbAnD
join:2006-01-07
Stow, MA
| said by GOLFnSUN :said by nasadude :you know, programming is one of the issues in pricing, but the cable and telcos could also take a smaller profit and lower prices. These industries - telecommunications(includes cable) and entertainment barely make a return on assets that is above what people can get with savings bonds. They can't LOWER prices without going out of business due to lack of investors. The ignorance of people on these forums about the financial aspects of business is truly appalling. ROA by Industry » money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/···dex.htmlROA by company in telecommunications » money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/···s/2.htmlROA by company in entertainment » money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/···t/2.htmlIf investors can't get a return on their investment money, the money goes elsewhere. You took the word right out of my mouth...
Anyway we complain about prices, we should look at Exxon Mobil and their profit. Lower the damn gas prices and we will have more to spend on entertainment. | |
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| | | | Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Re: The real answer is...Yes...and No ROA is the wrong measure for "Investors"
You want to use ROE. Especially for large leveraged companies ROA will ALWAYS be tiny, because your denominator will be so large.
Examples:
Comcast
Return on assets 2.37%
Return on Com Eqty 6.22%
Verizon
Return on assets 3.47%
Return on Com Eqty 14.05%
AT&T
Return on assets 3.53%
Return on Com Eqty 8.64% | |
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GOLFnSUN
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| Re: The real answer is...Yes...and No said by Ahrenl :ROA is the wrong measure for "Investors" You want to use ROE. Especially for large leveraged companies ROA will ALWAYS be tiny, because your denominator will be so large. Examples: ComcastReturn on assets 2.37% Return on Com Eqty 6.22%VerizonReturn on assets 3.47% Return on Com Eqty 14.05%AT&TReturn on assets 3.53% Return on Com Eqty 8.64% ROE is a good measure for Qtrly and Yearly measures and for investors that get in and out of the market based on stock price and projected earnings. ROA is a much better measure of a company's long term viability and its ability to cover the cost of capital and return consistent dividends. Both measures have their value. Institutional investors(pension funds especially) that look for good companies for long term investing consider ROA as a key measure.
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| | | | | | Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: The real answer is...Yes...and No As a good measure of a company, but not measure of return. The return to investors generated by the company is the ROE. ROA intermixes the return on assets that may have been generated by debt issuance, retained earnings, or, ahem, legislative handouts. Of course your nominal ROA on free assets will be lower, as they cost you nothing and distorted your NPV/IRR decision process.
Btw, welcome back from the "ignore posts" limbo... | |
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| | | russotto
join:2000-10-05
Collegeville, PA
| Yeah. Comcast isn't making money hand-over-fist. Sure it ain't. Pull the other one, it's got bells on.
They may appear to be getting a poor ROA, but if that's the case, they're probably holding on to a high book value for assets which are about as illiquid as you can get. Heck, they're probably counting the recent copper price increases as enormously increasing the value of their in-ground infrastructure (quite a bit of copper in RG-11), thereby reducing their ROA but not actually costing them money. | |
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bhorow
join:2004-05-17
Forest Hills, NY
| This is exactly right. People keep forgetting that cable programming costs continue to rise. They are correct that in areas that areas that Verizon is in they quickly raise the prices of the cable.
I don't know why the consumer thinks that programming cost for company A is different than programming for company B.
Disney doesn't get cheated with ESPN when it raises its programming costs.
All of these companies offer the same thing and is pretty close to a level playing field. They all offer internet-phone-cable.
So it comes down to who services people the best, Cable companies have a large advantage in the beginning. They are gaining phone customers at a rapid rate. Doscis 3.0 is going to start coming in 2008.
The field is fairly leveled at this point. Phone companies have a lot of work to do still to enter into the T.V. area.
There will be no price wars...There will be a value war which means how much speed and how many extras will be put into these packages, how much flexibility the consumer will have. | |
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kapil
The Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL | Who is surprised by this? It's about time someone tells the emperor that he has no F'ing clothes on. | |
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footballdude
Premium
join:2002-08-13
Imperial, MO | what Local telecom professor? Some university gave this guy a professorship just to study telecom? | |
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| viperlmw
Premium
join:2005-01-25
·Qwest.net
| Re: what said by footballdude :Local telecom professor? Some university gave this guy a professorship just to study telecom? Can I have that job? Think it pays well? Maybe a little cableco subsidy? Sounds nice. | |
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| RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:
·XMission
| said by footballdude :Local telecom professor? Some university gave this guy a professorship just to study telecom? Actually "Barry Orton, a UW-Madison professor of telecommunications", a MUCH broader field. And yes, there have been degrees given in telecommunications for at least 27 years, my University in California had a telecommunications degree back then which is how I can say that. They were also the department that ran the school TV and radio stations.
That said, I did not realize that degree branched out to the economics of telecommunications, I thought it was more of the use of various telecommunications to get a message/show out.
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
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MadMANN
Premium
join:2005-08-19
·Comcast
| I've said it before The competition is going to be on CONTENT, not price. While price will certainly impact customer choice, the value of the content that you get for the price is what really counts.
Posted after FIOS raised their rates: »Re: FIOS TV statewide franchise granted in NJ today | |
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faulknkid
join:2002-07-30
Murrieta, CA
| I have verizon and saving over 120 a year now I have had verizon TV(about 5 months) and internet(about a year)and I am currently saving at least 120 a year. On top of that, the tv service is better(more channels) than Time Warner. The only down side it the set-top and Home Media DVR boxes are a little BETA'ish. The Internet, obviously is way faster. So not only is it cheaper, but I have a better service overall. Best of both worlds. I have noticed that Time Warner has been offering cheaper deals then what I had originally with them , now that I am not their customer.  | |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Re: I have verizon and saving over 120 a year now They have to offer cheaper service than what you currently have... not what you had to make it effective. | |
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faulknkid
join:2002-07-30
Murrieta, CA
| I have had verizon TV(about 5 months) and internet(about a year)and I am curently saving at least 120 a year. On top of that, the tv service is better(mor channels) than Time Warner. The only down side it the set-top and Home Media DVR boxes are a little BETA'ish. The Internet, obviously is way faster. So not only is it cheaper, but I have a better service overall. Best of both worlds. I have noticed that Time Warner has been offering cheaper deals then what I had originally with them , now that I am not their customer. | |
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justbits
More fiber than ATT can handle
Premium
join:2003-01-08
Chicago, IL
·AT&T Midwest
·AT&T Yahoo
2 edits | Re: I have verizon and saving over 120 a year now said by faulknkid :I have had verizon TV(about 5 months) and internet(about a year)and I am curently saving at least 120 a year. It's this kind of perception that makes people wind up not having any savings at all. $120 a year? That's $10 a month. You may be saving $120 a year, but if you're spending $1000 a year on a product that should have cost you $500 a year in a competitive market, the $120 savings is just lip service from the marketers who made you believe you were saving $120 a year.
edit: bad math | |
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| | ross
join:2000-08-16
·Digizip
| Re: I have verizon and saving over 120 a year now said by justbits :...$120 a year? That's $12 a month... Ahem, $10.00/month, not $12/month... | |
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Titus Pullo
I came, I saw, I slept
join:2004-06-26
·Embarq
| fox guard the henhouse as the best way to farm BS by the cable overlords. Too bad most people won't wake up long enough -- and in time -- while they're sucking powerboosted p0rn to notice 'till it's too late. Then watch the 'whining' begin. When will people learn that government and big business work for one another and not the consumer? Is it that f'n hard to figure out or is the US truly a nation of consumer drones living on subprime loans and CC vapor? Sad. Truly sad. Well, any nation that would let their government kill unions as a matter of course, given that it was unions that built the great middle class, deserves everything they get. It's too bad the sensible innocents also get caught in the slaughter or tossed on the slag heap with a shiv in their back. | |
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MadMANN
Premium
join:2005-08-19
·Comcast
| Re: Typical said by Titus Pullo :fox guard the henhouse as the best way to farm BS by the cable overlords. Too bad most people won't wake up long enough -- and in time -- while they're sucking powerboosted p0rn to notice 'till it's too late. Then watch the 'whining' begin. When will people learn that government and big business work for one another and not the consumer? Is it that f'n hard to figure out or is the US truly a nation of consumer drones living on subprime loans and CC vapor? Sad. Truly sad. Well, any nation that would let their government kill unions as a matter of course, given that it was unions that built the great middle class, deserves everything they get. It's too bad the sensible innocents also get caught in the slaughter or tossed on the slag heap with a shiv in their back. Wow. | |
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tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Floral Park, NY
| What telcos bring to the table are a "CHOICE" to vote against the incumbent provider... NOT a lower price! This is true, for now... and the foreseeable future.
( I won't even touch the 'who is better debate' as that is not part of this thread )
Sometimes one choice is better than none.
Sometimes two choices is better than one.
Sometimes three choices is better than two, except political parties, because they'd rather see WWIII and the destruction of the planet rather than let a 3rd party get any major traction. | |
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karlmarx
join:2006-09-18
iraq
·Fairpoint Communic..
| Re: May I speak for everyone about telcos... No, the telco's aren't really bringing choice. Choice would come if the telco's offered a-la-carte service. THAT would be choice. The CHOICE the consumer currently gets is to be screwed by the cable co, or be screwed by the telco.
Give us the ability to pick the channels we want. I would 99% guarantee you that the VAST majority of people would choose less than 20 channels. If the C-Band providers can do it, why can't the telco/cableco?
»www.bigdish.com/satala.htm
Hell, here's my cost via bigdish
Discovery : 22.00
USA/Sci-fi : 18.00
Comedy Central : 11.00
CNN/MSNBC/FOX News : 22.00
Local Stations (12) : 24.00
Total Cost : 97.00.. PER YEAR!
Current cost to get the same channels from comcast : 850.00 per YEAR.
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Stick it to the MAN. Support your local torrent sites. Proudly providing 100mb of upstream for all your TV, Movie, and MP3 needs. | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ | Bills do NOT go down. PERIOD
my cable bill is going down this month only because I dropped HBO and skinemax(tired of repeats day after day).
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You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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Rob A
Same Old Jets
Premium
join:2005-01-17
Pompton Plains, NJ | Cable and Telco's will compete price wise, I guarantee it. | |
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bassnguitar
join:2003-09-11
Imperial, MO
clubs:
·Charter Pipeline
| Consumers would most likely see discounted rates and promotions on bundled packages, such as a discounted price on all-in-one Internet, cable TV and phone services. AT&T has publicly vowed not to get into a price war with long-standing cable TV competitors, and cable companies say rate decreases on current services are unlikely.
»www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/c···Document | |
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Telco, CableTV Price Wars Aren't Coming
In the end a local franchise for broadcast won't survive the digital change over flush. Much like the internet, broadcast TV won't be a local mom and pop business for long. I'm ready today!
