 
Chiyo
Save Me Konata-Chan
Premium
join:2003-02-20
Minneapolis, MN
clubs: | lobbyists This is so dumb, they broke the law they should take their punishment. I hate lobbyists.
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My Blog:
»jaab1.blogspot.com/ | |
|  | jc100
join:2002-04-10
 ·RoadRunner Cable
edit:
September 23rd, @03:31PM
| Re: lobbyists Write your congressman and Senators to tell them your outrage. Let them know not to vote for this bill. If you don't, you are the only one to blame here when it passes. This government is for the people, by the people, and we can't idly sit by and let our rights be sold out. We have a first Amendment right, too!
BEFORE ANY ONE ELSE POSTS. GO HERE. I HAVE ALREADY DONE SO. NOW IT IS YOUR TURN! TELL YOUR MEMBERS OF CONGRESS TO TURN DOWN THIS BILL AND SPEAK FOR US, NOT THE TELCOS!
»www.house.gov/writerep/
THEN, GO HERE AND PASTE THE SAME MESSAGE TO YOUR SENATORS!
»www.senate.gov/general/contact_i···_cfm.cfm | |
| | | lesopp
join:2001-06-27
Land O Lakes, FL
edit:
September 25th, @09:37AM
| Re: lobbyists I already wrote my congresswoman and senators in opposition to your point of view.
I feel this is a red herring. Go here and read what the court said regarding the the ACLU's case against the NSA on this very subject.
»www.fas.org/sgp/jud/statesec/aclu070607.pdf
To save a little time here's the judgement
JUDGMENT
On Appeal from the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Michigan at Detroit.
THIS CAUSE was heard on the record from the district court and was argued by counsel.
IN CONSIDERATION WHEREOF, it is ORDERED that the order of the district court is VACATED and the case is REMANDED with instructions to DISMISS the case for lack of jurisdiction.
ENTERED BY ORDER OF THE COURT | |
| 
Doctor Dan
Weapons Of Masturbation
Premium
join:2001-10-20
Papiopolis | Obviously the Telcos did something not quite legal... ...otherwise they wouldn't now be clamoring for immunity.
- Dan
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"That which does not kill us makes us stranger."
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY | Re: Obviously the Telcos did something not quite legal... BINGO! | |
| | | 
Cabal
Premium
join:2007-01-21
02101
| Re: First Admendment Right The article is about warrantless wiretaps, and you think this is a FIRST Amendment issue? I weep for our (clearly underfunded) schools.
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Interested in open source engine management for your Subaru? | |
| | | karlmarx
join:2006-09-18
Baghdad,IRAQ
| Re: First Admendment Right Umm, NO!
Verizon claimed it was a first amendment right, the people who are suing are correct in that it was a 4th amendment violation. You should read it..
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
Verizon and the others ILLEGALLY provided data and communications to the government WITHOUT a WARRANT. What part of 'unreasonable searches' and 'but upon probable cause' don't you understand. I'll summarize it for you. The government has NO RIGHT to monitor you UNLESS they have SPECIFIC information that you are engaged in criminal activity. That's why we have the justice department, to put a muzzel on 'heil bush', who quoted the bill of rights as 'just a piece of paper'.
The problem is that these companies KNOWINGLY and WILLINGLY violated ALL our rights. They should be sued into oblivion.
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Stick it to the MAN. Support your local torrent sites. Proudly providing 100mb of upstream for all your TV, Movie, and MP3 needs. | |
| | | | jimbo2150
join:2004-05-10
Youngstown, OH
 ·Dreamhost
·Armstrong Zoom In..
| Re: First Admendment Right said by karlmarx  :Umm, NO! Verizon claimed it was a first amendment right, the people who are suing are correct in that it was a 4th amendment violation. You should read it.. I agree, giving away customers' personal data is not protected by the First Amendment! It is not freedom of speech nor press. It does, however, violate their customers right to privacy (Fourth Amendment) which is something the bush administration and numerous major corporations have been doing lately! Now they just want immunity from the law? I'm rather appauled by this. | |
| | 
TK Junk Mail
Golf season has returned - hurrah
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
·Comcast
| said by TransitMan :I have the right of free speech. Guaranteed by the FIRST ADMENDMENT of the CONSTITUTION of the UNITED STATES. And how does wiretapping do anything to your free speech rights?
said by TransitMan :Verizon, AT&T and whomever else participated in this mockery of "MY" rights being violated need to be hauled before the courts for violation of said rights. You have no privacy rights to not be listened in to. You only have the right NOT to have that used against you in court. Businesses listen in all the time to phone calls. So what rights of yours was violated.
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Internet News
My BLOG
My Web Page | |
| | | karlmarx
join:2006-09-18
Baghdad,IRAQ
moderated:
September 23rd, @06:41PM
| Re: First Admendment Right They have a right to LISTEN to you conversation? Where do you get THAT from? Any time I call support, they ALWAYS say 'this call may be monitored, blah blah'. If I make a phone call, I have the EXPECTATION of privacy. AND, in most areas, you cannot RECORD a phone call unless both parties are aware.
The telco's flaunted the bill of rights, and should pay the price. If the price is they go bankrupt, then so be it. BUSINESS is NOT ABOVE THE LAW. If they WANT to be a 'person' under law, then they are subject to the same laws we are.
--
Stick it to the MAN. Support your local torrent sites. Proudly providing 100mb of upstream for all your TV, Movie, and MP3 needs. | |
| | | | | | justin147
join:2006-02-28
Centerville, UT
| said by TK Junk Mail :said by TransitMan :I have the right of free speech. Guaranteed by the FIRST ADMENDMENT of the CONSTITUTION of the UNITED STATES. And how does wiretapping do anything to your free speech rights? said by TransitMan :Verizon, AT&T and whomever else participated in this mockery of "MY" rights being violated need to be hauled before the courts for violation of said rights. You have no privacy rights to not be listened in to. You only have the right NOT to have that used against you in court. Businesses listen in all the time to phone calls. So what rights of yours was violated. We all have the right to expect that our "phone conversations" with family, or best friend, or even business associate will not be listened to. How different would we speak with each other if we thought for a second that we were being listend to, Court or No Court? | |
| | | |
TK Junk Mail
Golf season has returned - hurrah
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
·Comcast
| Re: First Admendment Right said by justin147 :We all have the right to expect that our "phone conversations" with family, or best friend, or even business associate will not be listened to. How different would we speak with each other if we thought for a second that we were being listend to, Court or No Court? For the last 20years I have always assumed I was being listened to on the phone and now on the internet. Before I retired I was head of telecomm at a major corporation. And believe me, there has been no such a thing as private conversations(except on scrambled phones) for a very long time.
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--
Internet News
My BLOG
My Web Page | |
| | | | | 
tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: First Admendment Right said by TK Junk Mail : Before I retired I was head of telecomm at a major corporation. And believe me, there has been no such a thing as private conversations(except on scrambled phones) for a very long time. That is true but there is a world of difference between a craftsperson listening to a call (officially for maintenance purposes) and a Telco or ISP making customer information available to law enforcement without a warrant.
/Tom | |
| | | | | karlmarx
join:2006-09-18
Baghdad,IRAQ
| It explains a LOT about your positions. It must be a very sad world you live in. A world filled with fear and loathing. A world where there are bad guys everywhere. A world where you EXPECT to be monitored. I thought we had gotten past that when we defeated the nazi's, but apparently you are still living in the 1940's, where the citizens are AFRAID of their government.
That's wrong on so many levels. It explains why you post what you do, because you see a 'terrist' behind every door, and you want the gestapho to protect you from the bad me.
I live in a world where I expect, no DEMAND privacy from spying eyes. I live in a world where I expect the government to FEAR ME. I have a gun. I carry a gun every day, and it gives you a feeling of power. It's not a 'good' feeling to take home when I get back, but where I am, it's necessary to survive. I DO NOT want to go back to a country where I fear the government. They trained me how to kill, and if I get back to that country, where I fear the government, I fully expect to use that training to overthrow our facist government, and replace it with the FUNDAMENTAL rights we were guaranteed by that 'worthless piece of paper' as our delusional commander in chief calls it.
--
Stick it to the MAN. Support your local torrent sites. Proudly providing 100mb of upstream for all your TV, Movie, and MP3 needs. | |
| | | | | |
TK Junk Mail
Golf season has returned - hurrah
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
·Comcast
| Re: First Admendment Right said by karlmarx :I live in a world where I expect, no DEMAND privacy from spying eyes. I live in a world where I expect the government to FEAR ME. I have a gun. I carry a gun every day, and it gives you a feeling of power. It's not a 'good' feeling to take home when I get back, but where I am, it's necessary to survive. I DO NOT want to go back to a country where I fear the government. They trained me how to kill, and if I get back to that country, where I fear the government, I fully expect to use that training to overthrow our facist government, and replace it with the FUNDAMENTAL rights we were guaranteed by that 'worthless piece of paper' as our delusional commander in chief calls it. Well, you have bigger problems than someone listening in on your phone. When you get back, the FBI may be doing more than listening in. Keep an eye out for the people following you around after your stated plans to overthrow the government are read. I am sure some FBI or NSA computer has already digested your statements.
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Internet News
My BLOG
My Web Page | |
| | | | | | | |
kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
 ·Packet8
| said by TK Junk Mail :said by TransitMan :I have the right of free speech. Guaranteed by the FIRST ADMENDMENT of the CONSTITUTION of the UNITED STATES. And how does wiretapping do anything to your free speech rights? said by TransitMan :Verizon, AT&T and whomever else participated in this mockery of "MY" rights being violated need to be hauled before the courts for violation of said rights. You have no privacy rights to not be listened in to. You only have the right NOT to have that used against you in court. Businesses listen in all the time to phone calls. So what rights of yours was violated. ROFLA, the utter idiocy of this argument is quite shocking - talk about underfunded schools and their 'products'...
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| | | | 
ken11
@geusnet.net
 from:
TK Junk Mail
| Re: First Admendment Right ROFLA, the utter idiocy of this argument is quite shocking - talk about underfunded schools and their 'products'..
There is finally one person that gets it. There is no inherent right to privacy guaranteed by the constitution. I'm surprised it took half a page for someone to bring this point up. | |
| | | | |
norm
@verizon.net
from:
TK Junk Mail
| Re: First Admendment Right said by ken11 :
There is no inherent right to privacy guaranteed by the constitution. Very true- although the government would generally have to violate a whole lot of other rights in order to violate your privacy. Taken as a whole, the bill of rights and all the follow-on laws pretty much ensure privacy, even if there's no explicit right.
The problem is with the telcos who, as I understand it, had no legal requirements to give up their customers phone records. I just haven't seen anyone who can point to an actual law they've broken... | |
| | 
ph03n1x
join:2003-02-15
Sanford, FL
edit:
September 23rd, @03:27PM
| Couldn't agree more that it's a violation of rights. It is the 4th though not the 1st that was trampled here. | |
| | | jc100
join:2002-04-10
·RoadRunner Cable
edit:
September 23rd, @03:24PM
| Already covered. Write your congressman and Senators to tell them your outrage. Let them know not to vote for this bill. If you don't, you are the only one to blame here when it passes. This government is for the people, by the people, and we can't idly sit by and let our rights be sold out. We have a first Amendment right, too!
BEFORE ANY ONE ELSE POSTS. GO HERE. I HAVE ALREADY DONE SO. NOW IT IS YOUR TURN! TELL YOUR MEMBERS OF CONGRESS TO TURN DOWN THIS BILL AND SPEAK FOR US, NOT THE TELCOS!
»www.house.gov/writerep/
THEN, GO HERE AND PASTE THE SAME MESSAGE TO YOUR SENATORS!
»www.senate.gov/general/contact_i···_cfm.cfm | |
| | | | | FiL
join:2005-08-16
Silver Spring, MD | Re: Already covered. Took the type right out of my feengerz! | |
| | | jc100
join:2002-04-10
·RoadRunner Cable
edit:
September 23rd, @04:12PM
| Yes,
However, it's your civic duty to express your opinions to them. Whether or not they listen is a different story. Still, it is your right as an AMERICAN to speak up and have your voice heard. If the person that was elected fails to do his or her job, then you give em the "OLD BOOT" the next go around. After all, he or she is only there due to a DEMOCRATIC ELECTION. If he or she cannot handle it when it comes time to voting, then they must be removed. It's simple as that. We live in a democracy and we can kick out BAD politicians the following election year. SO MAKE YOUR VOICE HEARD! DO NOT SIT ON CEREMONY ABOUT IF THEY WILL LISTEN. ENOUGH PEOPLE SPEAKING THEIR MIND WILL TELL THIS PERSON VOTE FOR US OR KISS YOUR JOB GOODBYE THE FOLLOWING YEAR OR 2. | |
| 
scooterr50
join:2007-08-08
·Comcast
| Telcos Lobby Congress no one is above the law. if you break the rules, then you should pay the price. 9-11 has gotten way to much out of hand. just a means to divert more money to some bullshit project that probally does not exist. i say nuke'm and be done with it, then watch how fast they try to surrender (if there is any left). | |
| justin147
join:2006-02-28
Centerville, UT
| The Phone Co's Arent Stupid are They? If they are going to engage in illegal action at the request of say "Pres. Bush" or his administration then perhaps they should get a defense similar to that in "A few Good Men" (Tom Cruise, Jack Nicholson, Demi Moore, Kevin Bacon.) The only problem with defending them as though they were just "following orders" is that generally that defense only applies to people who don't have the advantage of millions of dollars of corporate lawyers advising them before the fact. They broke the law. Prosecute them. I'll be writing my Senator, and Congressman. | |
| | 
pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: The Phone Co's Arent Stupid are They? said by justin147 :... then perhaps they should get a defense similar to that in "A few Good Men" ... You're seriously suggesting that a fictional movie plot be used as a basis for a legal defense?
said by justin147 :Prosecute them. I'll be writing my Senator, and Congressman. Since when is the Congress tasked with enforcing the law?
--
Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
| | | justin147
join:2006-02-28
Centerville, UT
edit:
October 2nd, @10:37PM
| Re: The Phone Co's Arent Stupid are They? They need to be held accountable not given imunity. E mail your congressman or senator. These jerks (Tel. Co's.) Broke the law. Now lets make sure that congress doesn't pass a law letting them off the hook. | |
| | | | justin147
join:2006-02-28
Centerville, UT
edit:
October 3rd, @03:09PM
| Re: The Phone Co's Arent Stupid are They? I am suggesting that the defense in that movie is ridiculous. Especially for Companies who spend millions on attorney's. Read the whole post and you would see that my intent was anything but Serious. | |
| 
Noah Vail
Serial Thread Killer
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
edit:
September 23rd, @05:41PM
| delete me .dupost | |
| |
Noah Vail
Serial Thread Killer
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA | . . | |
|
Noah Vail
Serial Thread Killer
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
 ·Verizon BroadbandA..
·VoicePulse
| Very Plain. Congress is controlled by the __________ party.
Therefore, the __________ will prevail in this matter.
You can depend on it, can't you?
NV
--
The More Alike 2 Religions are, the Stronger the Hate between them. | |
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royalpalm
join:2000-12-01
usa |  Thumbs up.
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| | jc100
join:2002-04-10
·RoadRunner Cable
edit:
September 24th, @01:53AM
| Re: Thumbs up. Royal,
Helping the intelligence community? Ok. Let's start off by microchipping you. If you want to be safe, the government must know your every move. This is especially imperative if they are to be able to record and track your daily routine to prevent anything bad from happening to you. After this, please be sure to register this daily routine with Big Brother so he can keep watch. Consequently, ff you deviate from this routine, the police will show up to question you. After all, you must be in our sites at all times, or you pose a risk to everyone else's security, too. Last, you have no privacy. Cameras and audio devices will be placed on your person and home. Whatever you say or do will be record. However, it's for your own safety. If a murderer or terrorist tries to get you, we'll respond in a moments notice. Willing to sign on the dotted line? I bet you would. Most sane people, you excluded, would run at the site of hearing that. Why? Well, we don't need to trade our rights for false security. We could give up every freedom in this world, and you'll never stop people who are determined. The best you can do is take realistic preventative safety measures. Better Airport Security, bearers between federal buildings, etc. These measures apply across the board to all circumstances, terrorism or normal crime.
However, to claim that this government needs to monitor Americans and Foreigners is a joke. Yes, Americans ARE BEING monitored illegally. DO you not recall the 100 + blanket photocopied letters the FBI issued to get information on Americans. Better yet, prove to me the NSA is only listening to foreigners. I want concrete proof. O you can't. Right. So what you don't know can hurt you. They could be spying on Americans talking to Americans and we'd be none the wise. Hence, giving the government the right to spy on you without intervention is a bad idea. If there is no court oversight, what's to stop this from being used to get insider tips, destroy a company, obtain trade secrets, etc. NOTHING AT ALL. My friend, you need to move out of the U.S. if you support these tacts. China, Russia, Cuba, have plenty of openings for people of your caliber. If you want a false sense of security at the cost of your freedoms, America has an open door for you to go elsewhere. Please let us know when you plan to leave, and we'll measure how much safer you are down the road with Big Brother over your shoulder. | |
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royalpalm
join:2000-12-01
usa | Well I'm glad your Passionate about your view of the subject, but my friend you have no business insulting me as a person. I personally agree with the Bush administration's view on wiretapping. However microchipping is not something I agree with. | |
| | | jc100
join:2002-04-10
·RoadRunner Cable
edit:
September 25th, @09:25AM
| Re: Thumbs up. Since you support Bush fully and without question, why are you against all the items I listed? Quote on Quote you want to help the cause. Therefore, you should be willing to do anything in the name of intelligence gathering? I guess you are just wishy washy on your stances. Go figure. You have no problems about spying on Americans but do not wish to have Big Brother install cameras in your place of residence, be microchipped, etc. Whats the difference? There isn't any. Merely, one takes place directly, and the other is done covertly without oversight and your full knowledge. As the saying goes, the only thing we have to fear is fear itself. If you are that scared, move to another country where such behavior is acceptable, and see how safe you feel then with less rights. Therefore, my Point IS Proven. Such actions should not be tolerated in a country that is suppose to serve as the model for Democracy. If you don't like this model, other countries would happily spy on you and tout their wonderful security. Just don't expect to have the freedom to do much, as their "security" comes at a very high price. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Telcos Deserve Immunity Hell, praise them for being an active partner in winning this war.
Telcos deserve immunity from legal action the same way good Samaritans who report suspicious activity also deserve immunity from legal action. For many people, and organizations in general, the mere threat of legal action is enough incentive to prevent them from doing the right thing.
Pursuing legal action against the telcos is just another attempt by the treasonous domestic Fifth Column to support our enemies and ensure our defeat.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
| |
See 23 replies to this post | |
ftthz
If love can kill hate can also save
join:2005-10-17 | meh ... either way the govt will probably still get the info one way or another. | |
| 
roc5955
Premium
join:2005-11-26
Rosendale, NY | One Nation Under surveillance.
With Liberty, and Justice for those who can pay for it.
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"Understanding is a three-edged sword." | |
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Telcos Lobby Congress For Warrantless Surveillance Immunity
Major head, major... major! In order! The nurse is coming! Take your pills and get off the computer...
