ChiyoSave Me Konata-Chan Premium Member join:2003-02-20 Salisbury, NC |
Chiyo
Premium Member
2007-Sep-23 2:14 pm
lobbyistsThis is so dumb, they broke the law they should take their punishment. I hate lobbyists. | |
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Re: lobbyistsWrite your congressman and Senators to tell them your outrage. Let them know not to vote for this bill. If you don't, you are the only one to blame here when it passes. This government is for the people, by the people, and we can't idly sit by and let our rights be sold out. We have a first Amendment right, too! BEFORE ANY ONE ELSE POSTS. GO HERE. I HAVE ALREADY DONE SO. NOW IT IS YOUR TURN! TELL YOUR MEMBERS OF CONGRESS TO TURN DOWN THIS BILL AND SPEAK FOR US, NOT THE TELCOS! » www.house.gov/writerep/THEN, GO HERE AND PASTE THE SAME MESSAGE TO YOUR SENATORS! » www.senate.gov/general/c ··· _cfm.cfm | |
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| | lesopp join:2001-06-27 Land O Lakes, FL 1 edit |
lesopp
Member
2007-Sep-25 9:34 am
Re: lobbyistsI already wrote my congresswoman and senators in opposition to your point of view. I feel this is a red herring. Go here and read what the court said regarding the the ACLU's case against the NSA on this very subject. » www.fas.org/sgp/jud/stat ··· 0607.pdfTo save a little time here's the judgement JUDGMENTOn Appeal from the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Michigan at Detroit. THIS CAUSE was heard on the record from the district court and was argued by counsel. IN CONSIDERATION WHEREOF, it is ORDERED that the order of the district court is VACATED and the case is REMANDED with instructions to DISMISS the case for lack of jurisdiction. ENTERED BY ORDER OF THE COURT | |
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93254336 (banned)Weapons Of Masturbation join:2001-10-20 |
93254336 (banned)
Member
2007-Sep-23 2:31 pm
Obviously the Telcos did something not quite legal......otherwise they wouldn't now be clamoring for immunity.
- Dan | |
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| kamm join:2001-02-14 Brooklyn, NY |
kamm
Member
2007-Sep-23 9:22 pm
Re: Obviously the Telcos did something not quite legal...BINGO! | |
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First Admendment RightI have the right of free speech. Guaranteed by the FIRST ADMENDMENT of the CONSTITUTION of the UNITED STATES.
Verizon, AT&T and whomever else participated in this mockery of "MY" rights being violated need to be hauled before the courts for violation of said rights. Big business does not have the right to take away those rights, under no circumstances, unless one broke the law.
The government under "King" George has taken our freedoms and liberties and have tried to use them against us.
Enough, I say. Let the lawsuits proceed in the courts, where the real criminals must fess up. | |
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| Cabal Premium Member join:2007-01-21
1 recommendation |
Cabal
Premium Member
2007-Sep-23 2:39 pm
Re: First Admendment RightThe article is about warrantless wiretaps, and you think this is a FIRST Amendment issue? I weep for our (clearly underfunded) schools. | |
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Re: First Admendment RightUmm, NO! Verizon claimed it was a first amendment right, the people who are suing are correct in that it was a 4th amendment violation. You should read it..
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
Verizon and the others ILLEGALLY provided data and communications to the government WITHOUT a WARRANT. What part of 'unreasonable searches' and 'but upon probable cause' don't you understand. I'll summarize it for you. The government has NO RIGHT to monitor you UNLESS they have SPECIFIC information that you are engaged in criminal activity. That's why we have the justice department, to put a muzzel on 'heil bush', who quoted the bill of rights as 'just a piece of paper'.
The problem is that these companies KNOWINGLY and WILLINGLY violated ALL our rights. They should be sued into oblivion. | |
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Re: First Admendment Rightsaid by karlmarx:Umm, NO! Verizon claimed it was a first amendment right, the people who are suing are correct in that it was a 4th amendment violation. You should read it.. I agree, giving away customers' personal data is not protected by the First Amendment! It is not freedom of speech nor press. It does, however, violate their customers right to privacy (Fourth Amendment) which is something the bush administration and numerous major corporations have been doing lately! Now they just want immunity from the law? I'm rather appauled by this. | |
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| FFH5 Premium Member join:2002-03-03 Tavistock NJ
1 recommendation |
to TransitMan
said by TransitMan:I have the right of free speech. Guaranteed by the FIRST ADMENDMENT of the CONSTITUTION of the UNITED STATES. And how does wiretapping do anything to your free speech rights? said by TransitMan:Verizon, AT&T and whomever else participated in this mockery of "MY" rights being violated need to be hauled before the courts for violation of said rights. You have no privacy rights to not be listened in to. You only have the right NOT to have that used against you in court. Businesses listen in all the time to phone calls. So what rights of yours was violated. | |
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Re: First Admendment RightThey have a right to LISTEN to you conversation? Where do you get THAT from? Any time I call support, they ALWAYS say 'this call may be monitored, blah blah'. If I make a phone call, I have the EXPECTATION of privacy. AND, in most areas, you cannot RECORD a phone call unless both parties are aware.
The telco's flaunted the bill of rights, and should pay the price. If the price is they go bankrupt, then so be it. BUSINESS is NOT ABOVE THE LAW. If they WANT to be a 'person' under law, then they are subject to the same laws we are. | |
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to FFH5
said by FFH5:Businesses listen in all the time to phone calls. So what rights of yours was violated. At least businesses forewarn you prior to talking to somebody that your call may be recorded or monitored. Then if you proceed with the call, then you have given them consent to do so. If you do not give consent, you merely hang up. | |
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to FFH5
said by FFH5:said by TransitMan:I have the right of free speech. Guaranteed by the FIRST ADMENDMENT of the CONSTITUTION of the UNITED STATES. And how does wiretapping do anything to your free speech rights? said by TransitMan:Verizon, AT&T and whomever else participated in this mockery of "MY" rights being violated need to be hauled before the courts for violation of said rights. You have no privacy rights to not be listened in to. You only have the right NOT to have that used against you in court. Businesses listen in all the time to phone calls. So what rights of yours was violated. We all have the right to expect that our "phone conversations" with family, or best friend, or even business associate will not be listened to. How different would we speak with each other if we thought for a second that we were being listend to, Court or No Court? | |
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| | | FFH5 Premium Member join:2002-03-03 Tavistock NJ |
FFH5
Premium Member
2007-Sep-23 5:40 pm
Re: First Admendment Rightsaid by justin147:We all have the right to expect that our "phone conversations" with family, or best friend, or even business associate will not be listened to. How different would we speak with each other if we thought for a second that we were being listend to, Court or No Court? For the last 20years I have always assumed I was being listened to on the phone and now on the internet. Before I retired I was head of telecomm at a major corporation. And believe me, there has been no such a thing as private conversations(except on scrambled phones) for a very long time. | |
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Re: First Admendment Rightsaid by FFH5: Before I retired I was head of telecomm at a major corporation. And believe me, there has been no such a thing as private conversations(except on scrambled phones) for a very long time. That is true but there is a world of difference between a craftsperson listening to a call (officially for maintenance purposes) and a Telco or ISP making customer information available to law enforcement without a warrant. /Tom | |
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to FFH5
It explains a LOT about your positions. It must be a very sad world you live in. A world filled with fear and loathing. A world where there are bad guys everywhere. A world where you EXPECT to be monitored. I thought we had gotten past that when we defeated the nazi's, but apparently you are still living in the 1940's, where the citizens are AFRAID of their government. That's wrong on so many levels. It explains why you post what you do, because you see a 'terrist' behind every door, and you want the gestapho to protect you from the bad me.
I live in a world where I expect, no DEMAND privacy from spying eyes. I live in a world where I expect the government to FEAR ME. I have a gun. I carry a gun every day, and it gives you a feeling of power. It's not a 'good' feeling to take home when I get back, but where I am, it's necessary to survive. I DO NOT want to go back to a country where I fear the government. They trained me how to kill, and if I get back to that country, where I fear the government, I fully expect to use that training to overthrow our facist government, and replace it with the FUNDAMENTAL rights we were guaranteed by that 'worthless piece of paper' as our delusional commander in chief calls it. | |
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| | | | | FFH5 Premium Member join:2002-03-03 Tavistock NJ |
FFH5
Premium Member
2007-Sep-24 3:51 am
Re: First Admendment Rightsaid by karlmarx:I live in a world where I expect, no DEMAND privacy from spying eyes. I live in a world where I expect the government to FEAR ME. I have a gun. I carry a gun every day, and it gives you a feeling of power. It's not a 'good' feeling to take home when I get back, but where I am, it's necessary to survive. I DO NOT want to go back to a country where I fear the government. They trained me how to kill, and if I get back to that country, where I fear the government, I fully expect to use that training to overthrow our facist government, and replace it with the FUNDAMENTAL rights we were guaranteed by that 'worthless piece of paper' as our delusional commander in chief calls it. Well, you have bigger problems than someone listening in on your phone. When you get back, the FBI may be doing more than listening in. Keep an eye out for the people following you around after your stated plans to overthrow the government are read. I am sure some FBI or NSA computer has already digested your statements. | |
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| | | | kamm join:2001-02-14 Brooklyn, NY |
to FFH5
said by FFH5:said by justin147:We all have the right to expect that our "phone conversations" with family, or best friend, or even business associate will not be listened to. How different would we speak with each other if we thought for a second that we were being listend to, Court or No Court? For the last 20years I have always assumed I was being listened to on the phone and now on the internet. Before I retired I was head of telecomm at a major corporation. Ohhh, yeah, we know that. Major head, major... major! In order! The nurse is coming! Take your pills and get off the computer... | |
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| | kamm |
to FFH5
said by FFH5:said by TransitMan:I have the right of free speech. Guaranteed by the FIRST ADMENDMENT of the CONSTITUTION of the UNITED STATES. And how does wiretapping do anything to your free speech rights? said by TransitMan:Verizon, AT&T and whomever else participated in this mockery of "MY" rights being violated need to be hauled before the courts for violation of said rights. You have no privacy rights to not be listened in to. You only have the right NOT to have that used against you in court. Businesses listen in all the time to phone calls. So what rights of yours was violated. ROFLA, the utter idiocy of this argument is quite shocking - talk about underfunded schools and their 'products'... | |
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1 recommendation |
ken11
Anon
2007-Sep-24 8:54 am
Re: First Admendment RightROFLA, the utter idiocy of this argument is quite shocking - talk about underfunded schools and their 'products'..
There is finally one person that gets it. There is no inherent right to privacy guaranteed by the constitution. I'm surprised it took half a page for someone to bring this point up. | |
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1 recommendation |
norm
Anon
2007-Sep-24 9:59 am
Re: First Admendment Rightsaid by ken11 :
There is no inherent right to privacy guaranteed by the constitution. Very true- although the government would generally have to violate a whole lot of other rights in order to violate your privacy. Taken as a whole, the bill of rights and all the follow-on laws pretty much ensure privacy, even if there's no explicit right. The problem is with the telcos who, as I understand it, had no legal requirements to give up their customers phone records. I just haven't seen anyone who can point to an actual law they've broken... | |
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to TransitMan
Couldn't agree more that it's a violation of rights. It is the 4th though not the 1st that was trampled here. | |
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| DHRacerTech Monkey join:2000-10-10 Lake Arrowhead, CA |
to TransitMan
Wait, what?
When did Bill of Rights apply to corporations? By the people, of the people, for the people. Don't see "company" or "corporate" in there anywhere. When companies became the new indivudual, this country went to hell because now the "rights" afforded come to protect the businesses and not the people who use them. People can't compete with the lobbying power of businesses.
Now everything these days is "for the good of business" and not "for the good of the people". Sad. | |
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Already covered.Write your congressman and Senators to tell them your outrage. Let them know not to vote for this bill. If you don't, you are the only one to blame here when it passes. This government is for the people, by the people, and we can't idly sit by and let our rights be sold out. We have a first Amendment right, too! BEFORE ANY ONE ELSE POSTS. GO HERE. I HAVE ALREADY DONE SO. NOW IT IS YOUR TURN! TELL YOUR MEMBERS OF CONGRESS TO TURN DOWN THIS BILL AND SPEAK FOR US, NOT THE TELCOS! » www.house.gov/writerep/THEN, GO HERE AND PASTE THE SAME MESSAGE TO YOUR SENATORS! » www.senate.gov/general/c ··· _cfm.cfm | |
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| swintec Premium Member join:2003-12-19 Alfred, ME
1 recommendation |
swintec
Premium Member
2007-Sep-23 3:50 pm
Re: Already covered.Since when are laws voted upon by our congressmen and senators based on what the people want? It is clear it is done for whichever side can shell out the most money or if favors are in need to the other congress-drones in office. | |
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| | FiL25 Premium Member join:2005-08-16 Silver Spring, MD |
FiL25
Premium Member
2007-Sep-23 4:03 pm
Re: Already covered.Took the type right out of my feengerz! | |
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to swintec
Yes,
However, it's your civic duty to express your opinions to them. Whether or not they listen is a different story. Still, it is your right as an AMERICAN to speak up and have your voice heard. If the person that was elected fails to do his or her job, then you give em the "OLD BOOT" the next go around. After all, he or she is only there due to a DEMOCRATIC ELECTION. If he or she cannot handle it when it comes time to voting, then they must be removed. It's simple as that. We live in a democracy and we can kick out BAD politicians the following election year. SO MAKE YOUR VOICE HEARD! DO NOT SIT ON CEREMONY ABOUT IF THEY WILL LISTEN. ENOUGH PEOPLE SPEAKING THEIR MIND WILL TELL THIS PERSON VOTE FOR US OR KISS YOUR JOB GOODBYE THE FOLLOWING YEAR OR 2. | |
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Telcos Lobby Congressno one is above the law. if you break the rules, then you should pay the price. 9-11 has gotten way to much out of hand. just a means to divert more money to some bullshit project that probally does not exist. i say nuke'm and be done with it, then watch how fast they try to surrender (if there is any left). | |
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The Phone Co's Arent Stupid are They?If they are going to engage in illegal action at the request of say "Pres. Bush" or his administration then perhaps they should get a defense similar to that in "A few Good Men" (Tom Cruise, Jack Nicholson, Demi Moore, Kevin Bacon.) The only problem with defending them as though they were just "following orders" is that generally that defense only applies to people who don't have the advantage of millions of dollars of corporate lawyers advising them before the fact. They broke the law. Prosecute them. I'll be writing my Senator, and Congressman. | |
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| pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium Member join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD |
pnh102
Premium Member
2007-Sep-23 7:26 pm
Re: The Phone Co's Arent Stupid are They?said by justin147:... then perhaps they should get a defense similar to that in "A few Good Men" ... You're seriously suggesting that a fictional movie plot be used as a basis for a legal defense? said by justin147:Prosecute them. I'll be writing my Senator, and Congressman. Since when is the Congress tasked with enforcing the law? | |
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Re: The Phone Co's Arent Stupid are They?They need to be held accountable not given imunity. E mail your congressman or senator. These jerks (Tel. Co's.) Broke the law. Now lets make sure that congress doesn't pass a law letting them off the hook. | |
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| | | justin147 1 edit |
Re: The Phone Co's Arent Stupid are They?I am suggesting that the defense in that movie is ridiculous. Especially for Companies who spend millions on attorney's. Read the whole post and you would see that my intent was anything but Serious. | |
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Noah VailOh God please no. Premium Member join:2004-12-10 SouthAmerica 1 edit |
delete me.dupost | |
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Noah Vail |
Very Plain.Congress is controlled by the __________ party.
Therefore, the __________ will prevail in this matter.
You can depend on it, can't you?
NV | |
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1 recommendation |
Thumbs up.I agree with Telco Immunity. Its about time they get support for helping the intelligence community! | |
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pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium Member join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD
1 recommendation |
pnh102
Premium Member
2007-Sep-23 7:24 pm
Telcos Deserve ImmunityHell, praise them for being an active partner in winning this war.
Telcos deserve immunity from legal action the same way good Samaritans who report suspicious activity also deserve immunity from legal action. For many people, and organizations in general, the mere threat of legal action is enough incentive to prevent them from doing the right thing.
Pursuing legal action against the telcos is just another attempt by the treasonous domestic Fifth Column to support our enemies and ensure our defeat. | |
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ftthzIf love can kill hate can also save join:2005-10-17 |
ftthz
Member
2007-Sep-23 7:49 pm
meh... either way the govt will probably still get the info one way or another. | |
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roc5955 Premium Member join:2005-11-26 Rosendale, NY |
roc5955
Premium Member
2007-Sep-24 9:28 am
One NationUnder surveillance. With Liberty, and Justice for those who can pay for it. | |
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