 
telcolackey
The Truth? You can't handle the truth
join:2007-04-06
Death Valley, CA | First Post Greed, greed, greed
FiOS, FiOS, FiOS
Monopolies, monopolies, monopolies
Thought I would get that out of the way
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"Believe only half of what you see and nothing that you hear." - Dinah Craik | |
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Dogfather
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | Re: First Post Pretty much sums it up nicely. | |
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supergirl
join:2007-03-20
Pensacola, FL
 ·Cox VOIP
·Skype
 ·Cox HSI
 ·AT&T Southeast
·magicjack.com
| Hate to say it, but FIOS is started to test investors's nerves. Hey, Verizon, MAKE SOME GOOD COMMERCIALS! They suck! Market it right. Nobody understands that techo-sh@!# so price, price, price. Ivan, get off you butt and fire the marketing staff. Also, fix that mess of a billing system. If you can't make a profit by 2010, hope they shoot holes in your golden parachute.
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Saving the world keeps me busy. However, I find Earth very primitive from my home planet of Krypton.
-Supergirl | |
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cypherstream
Looking forward to the future of things.
Premium,MVM
join:2004-12-02
Reading, PA
clubs:
| Re: First Post Hey I like the Fios commercials with the "awesome" guy and the multi room DVR, and all of that.
The telco's will keep loosing to Cable because Cable has one thing that the telco's don't. That's footprint. Cable is all over the place, where Fios or Uverse is only in select locations. Fix that problem and then maybe start to see a change.
If Fios was available to me I would subscribe. | |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| Re: Cable > DSL WTF? Neither you nor anyone else could power off the equipment and yank the USB and connect CAT5?
Yeah, too hard. 
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Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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telcolackey
The Truth? You can't handle the truth
join:2007-04-06
Death Valley, CA
1 edit | Re: Cable > DSL If she only had USB I expect this was a very old computer. To say that Comcast sucks because the tech could not figure out how to hook up outdated equipment probably running a very old OS is a bit of a general statement based on a isolated issue.
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"Believe only half of what you see and nothing that you hear." - Dinah Craik | |
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bobjohnson
Premium
join:2007-02-03
Titusville, FL
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Cable > DSL said by telcolackey  :If she only had USB I expect this was a very old computer. To say that Comcast sucks because the tech could not figure out how to hook up outdated equipment probably running a very old OS is a bit of a general statement based on a isolated issue. Yeah.. I see windows 98 and up computers with no ethernet and technically we aren't supposed to install anything less than Win Me, if I tell them no i can't install on this computer (which i don't tell them no) does that make att better? I have been installing dish, directv, and dsl takeovers for a month now. Why? Because bright house has free install, free equipment and $99 a month for Digital Cable, 7/1 internet and unlimited florida phone... DSL around here is very unreliable, but so is cable so price wins here anyways
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Any unauthorized copying or distribution of the opinion above constitutes stupidity and you should probably be punished
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
1 edit | Re: Cable > DSL You say lazy.
To connect USB, drivers have to be installed - more work.
To connect CAT5, plug it in - no installation of drivers.
For more than one computer to be used, sub either gets to pay for Home networking and all hw/installation/setup is handled and supported by Comcast
*OR*... user gets to connect their own router - themselves - no installation by Comcast and no support.
Story is full of holes here Mactron.
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Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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BillRoland
Premium
join:2001-01-21
Ocala, FL
clubs:
·Cox HSI
| Re: Cable > DSL said by dadkins :Story is full of holes here Mactron. I have to agree. The believability of what he wrote is predicated on all of us being idiots and never having looked behind the cable modem.
The only lazy person is the person too lazy to unplug the USB, plug in the CAT5 and power cycle the modem.
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"Don't steal. The government hates competition." | |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
1 edit | Re: Cable > DSL said by Mactron :said by dadkins :Story is full of holes here Mactron. As they say the truth hurts.  Deal with it. My guess, they couldn't figure out release, renew to pull a new IP address. So USB it was.  The original connect had to pull IP when modem powered up - with either connection.
There is no need for release renew when swapping connection type.
Resetting or powercycle of modem(at most) is all that is needed.
USB was used (most likely) at user request/approval as it would require running the install software to install USB drivers - but you already know this, right?
Getting way too deep in here for me. LOL!
We believe you Mactron, honestly! 
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Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20 | Re: Cable > DSL Maybe the moral to that story is that stupid people shouldn't own computers, especially these days. That story only isn't full of holes, it's not believable either. | |
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bobjohnson
Premium
join:2007-02-03
Titusville, FL
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
| said by Mactron :said by dadkins :Story is full of holes here Mactron. As they say the truth hurts. Deal with it. My guess, they couldn't figure out release, renew to pull a new IP address. So USB it was. Or they had a misconfigured firewall, or the NIC was bad, or the drivers for the NIC were not installed.. Cable techs and Phone techs are not Computer techs and guaranteed with your story if they were installing dsl on that computer it would have been hooked up usb also..
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Any unauthorized copying or distribution of the opinion above constitutes stupidity and you should probably be punished
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| | | | | | | | | | Syncognition
join:2008-01-12
Winter Park, FL
| Re: Cable > DSL Embarq includes NIC installation in a full install scenario. Not all ISPs are created equally. Some do only what is necessary to get service working for a customer, while others do only what is necessary to make the customer satisfied with how their service works. | |
| | | | | | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20 | Not to mention, I'm sure that there are 90% of the people that would agree that no one wants a "lazy" tech, much less a smart one, installing anything on their computers.. | |
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jsz0
join:2008-01-23
Jewett City, CT | ^^ You can use a USB connection on a modem on any computer if you install a driver. Perhaps he tried CAT5 and it didn't work for some reason? So he used USB instead? | |
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CableTool
Poorly Representing MYSELF.
Premium
join:2004-11-12
| said by Mactron :said by Matt :T I only know one person who has DSL and that was because his cable service in Manhattan was awful. I know quite a few here. The local Comcast franchise just plain sucks here. I just helped a friend here setup Dry Loop DSL here. Comcast hooked her up with USB Internet so she couldn't use it on her other computers. After many calls and tech visits Comcase basically told her Tough Luck. "We only promised you one computer connectivity".  She dumped Comcast cable TV, HSI and is very happy with her new DISH DVR and DSL. She saves ~ $20 a month too. Moral... Not all Cable Companies are created equally. Get over it Cable Shills. Im not even sure what "USB INTERNET" is. If the tech had an issue with her NIC he resorts to USB. They are not there to figure out any issues your system might have. Its your system.
If its hooked up via USB and the customer wants to unplug it and plug in another computer with Cat5 what is stopping them? There is nothing in the modem stating it needs a USB connection.
As far as customer service stating they only hook up one PC thats true. Unless its networking, the tech isnt going to have you line up every CP in the house and hook them up and install drivers on all of them.
They can of course.. and Im sure a charge will ensue.
In any event a tech using USB and installing drivers is actually the OPPOSITE of lazy. Its a last resort and for some reason the tech had to resort to it.
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CableTechs.org/"Horrible People with Integrity" | |
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Dogfather
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | I know lots of people with DSL because they don't give a crap about 10Mb service. They are fixated on POTS and would rather have 1.5-3Mb service for 1/2 to 1/3 the price of cable. | |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| Re: Cable > DSL said by Dogfather :I know lots of people with DSL because they don't give a crap about 10Mb service. They are fixated on POTS and would rather have 1.5-3Mb service for 1/2 to 1/3 the price of cable. I know a few just like that... but I also get to hear about xxxMB taking forever to download too.
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Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| Re: Cable > DSL said by Dogfather :said by dadkins :said by Dogfather :I know lots of people with DSL because they don't give a crap about 10Mb service. They are fixated on POTS and would rather have 1.5-3Mb service for 1/2 to 1/3 the price of cable. I know a few just like that... but I also get to hear about xxxMB taking forever to download too. I get the same complaints of cable users suffering from BT traffic shaping. Grass is always greener on the other side. Yep, from either side, huh? 
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Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
| I've been on both, and typically will go for whatever deal works out best for 'me'.
1. I don't have HDTV sets, nor do I care for any of the hockey/football/sports packages. I can (and do ) get decent service on OTA digital.
2. I do care if the service is reliable (esp. Internet, as I telecommute) I don't need service higher than 3Mbps/512kbps, but it had better be up.
3. I do need voice, and I don't care if its voip (I use Skypeout for telecon calls).
4. I want a good price.
Eg. I have been on
DirecTv (went from $55 to $65/month for 3 sets on 'plus' package.
AT&T POTS/LD $40 + $4.99 for Canada + Tax/fees = $57 
DSL-Extreme: 3mbps/512kbps for $24.95 + taxes
TWC will be giving me: Digital (1 box) + analog + HSI + VoIP unlimited for $89/month + taxes/fees (probably $100 total).
In the long term, I may switch over to AT&T DSL for a better deal: AT&T DSL $30/month, Vonage/Call Vantage $25/month, and OTA digital TV.
Its next to impossible to move my phone number while on DSL-Extreme, so I'm taking this route.
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Canada = Hollywood North | |
| | | elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
·SONIC.NET
·RoadRunner Cable
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by Dogfather :I know lots of people with DSL because they don't give a crap about 10Mb service. They are fixated on POTS and would rather have 1.5-3Mb service for 1/2 to 1/3 the price of cable. We're not fixated on POTS.
When, or should I say, IF cable-voip offers a service level equivalent to POTS, then we'll look at it.
Cable has had a decade of opportunity to make their service viable. In my neighborhood, they've re-cabled four times in 18 months, but it (cable modem) still craps out daily.
I expect my phone to ring when it is dialed.
Circuit-switched POTS ensures that. VOIP, in all of its flavors, does not, and often, doesn't route the failed call to a working voicemail box. POTS does. When I dial 911, I expect to reach a 911 operator, who knows who I am and where I am, every time. POTS does this. Everything else doesn't. | |
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DHRacer
Fire Survivor
join:2000-10-10
Lake Arrowhead, CA
·Charter Pipeline
·Verizon west (ex G..
| TV more important I think the majority of people want to bundle their services and bills around TV, which helps Cable Companies.
Telco, which doesn't have much in the way of TV service to the masses (it's coming but not as widespread as Cable is now), is simply losing because people want TV, and they want bundles, and right now Telcos can't do as well as Cable in this department.
Though I would give the FIOS bundle a try if it came into my neighborhood. I'd even switch my wireless to VZ and go for the quadrulple play...
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texans20
Weapons of Masturbation
Premium
join:2002-09-28
Texas!
clubs:
| That's Business In the 90s when cable companies were dumping a lot of money into upgrading their network, the telcos did nothing, not a damn thing. Today we are seeing the results and the cable companies are seeing the rewards of their investment last decade.
AT&T still can not look beyond next quarter's earnings, that is why they refuse to begin doing a large scale upgrade to fiber. They are missing out on yet another chance as fiber would allow them to offer video and compete with cable companies. Their inability to look beyond next quarter's cash flow statement will be their downfall. They're proud of U-Verse which is nothing but a bandage.
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"I sincerely believe the banking institutions having the issuing power of money are more dangerous to liberty than standing armies." Thomas Jefferson | |
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a333
A hot cup of integrals please
join:2007-06-12
Rego Park, NY
·Cingular Wireless
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: That's Business The telco's would go the FTTH route, and they knew that..
While cable co's got a margin over the telcos based on their superior last-mile networks, they're reaching the limit of the technology. The telco's have been in the data business for a LONG time, hence their core networks were much superior to anything that MSO's could get in their dizziest daydreams. AT&T will go the FTTH route soon enough, as the step from FTTn to FTTH isn't that big of a step. As to FiOS, GPON is only the beginning of things. Right now, Verizon is posed to provide symmetric 100 Mbit internet over the EXISTING FiOS infrastructure, and in a few years, EPON or even WDM-PON will come into play. And there's nothing the cable MSO's can do about it. DOCSIS 3.0 can't save them. Throttling/traffic shaping won't save them. As I've said, Cable's last-mile was great for the last decade, but the telcos are now beginning to actually use the full potential of their backbone networks (such as Verizon lighting up 40 Gbit links), while cable starts to feel the limitations of coax, and their rather limited core network. | |
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NetAdmin
CCNA
join:2008-05-22
| Re: That's Business said by a333 :TThe telco's have been in the data business for a LONG time, hence their core networks were much superior to anything that MSO's could get in their dizziest daydreams. You base this statement about the MSOs core networks on what exactly? I know of at least two MSOs that are carrying their full channel lineups via IP from their "super-headends" to the local market headends. That includes the SD and fully uncompressed HD feeds.
As I've said, Cable's last-mile was great for the last decade, but the telcos are now beginning to actually use the full potential of their backbone networks (such as Verizon lighting up 40 Gbit links), while cable starts to feel the limitations of coax, and their rather limited core network. Despite what you believe, MSOs actually have an upgrade path from their coax networks. Some of the MSOs have node densities as low as 200 homes per node, which after round of splits, can allow fibre to be run directly to the home. Unlike most telcos, the MSOs actually have fibre much deeper in the last mile and will be able to extend that fibre for much less, if needed. With some of the newer 3ghz overlay technologies, they might not need to and still remain competitive with FTTH.
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Eleven years of carrying The Clue Bat... | |
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a333
A hot cup of integrals please
join:2007-06-12
Rego Park, NY
·Cingular Wireless
·Verizon Online DSL
1 edit | Re: That's Business I never said telcos have fiber deeper into the last mile. By 'core networks', I meant the telcos' IP backbones that've been around for a looong time, compared to MSO fiber. Sure, MSO's have their fiber, but a lot of that serves as the closed network that delivers their TV content. When it comes to IP, cableco's most of the time must dump that data onto another datacenter (cogent/Level3/Verizon), incurring peering charges. Telco's on the other hand, have Tier 1 networks, giving them essentially free peering with other Tier 1 backbones.
BTW, I never said telco's have more last-mile fiber than cable. I said they've improved their core network to the extent where they are poised to offer next-gen services if needed, over whatever medium needed. FiOS, where deployed, is starting to make noticeable dents in cable's subscriber base in the area. As to Re-Verse, they'll get their head back out their a$$ and get that final leg of fiber pushed out to their millions of existing subs. | |
| rdmiller
join:2005-09-23
Richmond, VA | Qwest?? I haven't seen any specifics about Qwest. They seem to be the telco in the most danger of going out of business. Perhaps some clever hedge fund (you know the one!) could bundle Qwest with Sprint and sell the package to the Koreans. | |
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supergirl
join:2007-03-20
Pensacola, FL | Re: And the telco response will certainly be... Add VZ's billing system sucks. | |
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fcb2868
@mindspring.com
| Interesting that you should bring up the $7.50 monthly charge for caller ID. It was when the phone company took that charge from $6.17 to $7.50 that I was motivated to investigate service from my cable provider. Within hours the divorce from the phone company was complete. TV, phone and internet via cable are working fine for me. | |
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Duramax08
Oh rly?
join:2008-08-03
San Antonio, TX | Dang crazy. | |
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chronoss2008
Premium
join:2008-03-29
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Bell Sympatico
| remember the caps and how much of that speed you can use rather have 5 megabit with unlimited (1000GB)
at 43$after taxes or 5 megabit with 200GB cap
at 31$ after taxes Can
then 7-16 megabit(starting at 55$ before taxes) cable offerings at wacky p[rices and a 60GB cap
haha ya lots a speed for like a week then your pwned.
people not looking at HOW much you can use that speed are daft
and deserve what they get. | |
| totalradio
join:2007-09-15 | So...let me get this straight... AT&T, et al want to implement "usage-based pricing", and losing (DSL) customers at the same time ?
The timing couldn't be more perfect. Whomever came up with that idea should have their butt removed ! | |
| 
freeze
Magic Murder Bag
Premium
join:2001-05-13
Columbus, OH
·RoadRunner Cable
| A marketing issue? I've been hearing about triple-play packages from cable companies for months/years now, but today was the first day I saw a triple play package from ATT for $75/month.
I've always figured the cheapest, working products will attract the most mainstream customers.
Does anyone else think ATT's lower triple play pricing will help draw in more customers despite having lower-tiered plans? | |
| GhostDoggy
join:2005-05-11
Duluth, GA
| One is no better than the other. I had Adelphia cable modem service for $42.95 per month as a stand-alone service. This went away when Comcast took over the Georgia franchises, added no value to the stand-alone service, force people to change their email addressed, but not before increasing my monthly fee by $15 (35%).
And this is at no defense to the telephone company that refuses to upgrade their broadband system that currently limits subscribers to 1.5x256 (Integrated Fiber In The Loop, or IFITL), yet still requires a POTS line for accounting purposes (and nothing more).
So, I see both being just as bad as the other, and neither are any better or worse in the voice department than the cellular carriers. And now that the VoIP folks are nickel & diming customers with taxes and fees the entire lump sum of businesses are the worse that can be. | |
|
Video Guy
@verizon.net
| Telco Fiber Driving MSO Progress It sounds odd, but hear me out...
When a telco decides to enter a market with FTTx, they make a lot of noise about it ahead of time (FiOS in NYC and Wash DC for example). They do this to play to Wall Street analysts, their own investors and to put pressure on the local franchising authorities to approve their entry into the market (specifics vary depending on state laws regarding franchising). They also make noise to try and "tease and freeze" their own vulnerable DSL customer base. They know when they lose a DSL customer to cable, the probability of losing the phone service goes way up.
Now here's the bad part: the MSOs are listening too. So, for the last 18 months that VZ has beat its chest about FiOS for DC and NYC, Time Warner and Comcast have been splitting nodes, deploying deeper fiber, deploying switched digital, adding HD, prepping for DOCSIS 3.0 and marketing like crazy ahead of the storm. And there are 1 and 2 year contracts with nice discount sweeteners.
Then, once FiOS or U-Verse arrives, the MSOs, who already have virtually 100% coverage with 15-25 MB internet and digital cable, etc. are fighting an entrant who has to grow their new network one street at a time. The new entrant can't advertise too much early on because only 1-5% of the footprint is serviceable. And until that time (30-50% serviceability), the MSO is efficiently advertising its services across the footprint. And what they are advertising - which is meant to go head-to-head with fiber - hits the ears of all those DSL-only homes for years while the build out of fiber goes on. Blood bath.
So, in a strange roundabout way, the Telco FTTx plays have helped cable sharpen their competitive saws, goaded them into more and better marketing and pricing, and making another important round of improvements to the HFC plant (DOCSIS 3.0, 1Ghz upgrades, node splits, etc.) Other pressures also include DirecTV's decision to live and die by HDTV and the upcoming Digital Transition - which has many MSOs going or thinking about going all digital.
Comcast and Time Warner will be the biggest winners. Verizon will be OK but nothing like Ivan has been preaching and will be largely because of wireless and enterprise business growth masking the bloodbath on the wireline side (read anything by Craig Moffitt on this - he gets this whole thing better than any other analyst). AT&T? I'd be worried. | |
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Telcos Lost Both Voice and Broadband To Cable in Q2
Cable > DSL
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