 
MrMoody
Beleaguered Middle Class
join:2002-09-03
Smithfield, NC | Get ready Here it comes ... | |
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TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
 ·Comcast
| Re: Get ready said by MrMoody  :Here it comes ... The pay per byte and caps model will soon be coming to US ISPs also. Whether this merger is needed is a whole different story though.
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Internet News
My BLOG
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| | bmn
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Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
 ·Packet8
·Cox HSI
| Re: Get ready said by TK Junk Mail :said by MrMoody :Here it comes ... The pay per byte and caps model will soon be coming to US ISPs also. And that will kill the development of new applications, widgets, tools, etc. overnight...
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Prove it...
Save the Internet Time (NTP) service! | |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | We need to start a "Will TCH's prediction that billing by the byte is inevitable for the U.S. broadband market" pool.
Anyone want to draft the excel wager spreadsheet?  | |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | Re: Get ready Feh! Polls! I want to gamble! | |
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DaSneaky1D
one wall to block them all
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
The Lou
·Charter Pipeline
| Pay per byte will never happen in the US residential arena. And, when I say never, I mean NEVER!
Two reasons:
1) The only time an upgrade is needed is when people complain...which is few and far between. There have only been a few times when mainstream media has even caught wind of widespread poor service quality. Other than those times, "consumers" don't care. People here care, but consumers don't if their 10Gbps cable service runs at 384kbps...as long as the perception is there. That's why companies get by with policing traffic.
2) Also, you're talking about a people that can't stand talking to anyone with anything other than a flat accent for support (be it technical or billing). Do you really think a business will be stupid enough to tack on additional fees on this type people? That's how this whole "net neutrality" talk started, because companies didn't want to pass on any additional costs to consumers.
Where is the incentive to pay per byte?
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:: my trivial ramblings :: | |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
| Re: Get ready If there's ever been a PR group that can dress up "billing by the byte" as a cancer cure and a huge boon to consumers, it's the baby bell PR and lobbying folk.
That said, I too doubt it will happen. The closest we may get is the way Bell Canada charges an overage fee if you cross their monthly cap limit.
Suddenly switching to a pure bill-by-the-byte system would be marketing suicide, unless the $$ deal is just fantastic. | |
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DaSneaky1D
one wall to block them all
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
The Lou
·Charter Pipeline
| Re: Get ready said by Karl Bode :If there's ever been a PR group that can dress up "billing by the byte" as a cancer cure and a huge boon to consumers, it's the baby bell PR and lobbying folk. True....let me tread lightly using "never" then
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:: my trivial ramblings :: | |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
| Re: Get ready It starts with multi-billion dollar generating companies who sell your clickstream data and charge bogus fees on top of your monthly bill whining that upgrading their networks costs money, apparently.
Maybe next up is a bill by the byte cartoon mascot who pushes for new legislation that promises utopia if ma bell is allowed to charge $5 per GB?
These are very exciting times! | |
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join:2005-12-31
Raleigh, NC
| Re: Get ready said by TK Junk Mail :Here is an animated Avatar for pay per byte TCH's animated GIF isn't so much showing a measure of byte consumption as it is showing a measure of peak simultaneous bandwidth consumption, which is the real issue. If everyone slams their ISP at the same time with VoD (or bittorrent) downloads, somebody's going to be disappointed. It's this VoD type of scenario that has the access providers in a dither. Conventional web surfing/downloads are not the issue. And neither is total byte consumption, thought that is standing in as a convenient (and lazy) substitute.
What the cable/telco providers really want is a way to guarantee that their service offers (e.g. IPTV, VoD, any partner data) are prioritized compared to anything else. Pay per byte is way too clumsy to help them on that, so I'm not even sure why we're even talking about it. Sure the wireless carriers are obviously doing that now, and for their small pipes, it's a good first cut substitute. But any cable/telco provider suggesting pay per byte as a way to manage their pipes has got the market hoodwinked on how their cost structures work. | |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | Re: Get ready Good post. | |
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MrMoody
Beleaguered Middle Class
join:2002-09-03
Smithfield, NC
 ·Embarq
| My prediction, as I've stated before, is that it will eventually go to the cell phone model: you get a certain amount of "package" gigabytes, carefully chosen and priced so that the average user will go slightly over, then get charged an unjustifiably high rate for any usage above that.
However, it's a tough call. While bandwidth demand is increasing quickly, wholesale cost is also decreasing quickly, so it's a question of which is happening faster. There's also the element of competition: every major US provider has siginificant overlap with other providers. While not everyone has two broadband choices, a lot of us do. This competition is the only thing saving us up to this point; no provider wants to be the first with the bad news and bleed customers. "Unlimited" was a huge selling point 10 years ago. That's how the dialup internet startups got customers away from the likes of AOL who were charging by the hour. | |
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TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast
| Re: Get ready said by MrMoody : While bandwidth demand is increasing quickly, wholesale cost is also decreasing quickly, so it's a question of which is happening faster. That was true, but no longer. The glut left over from the dot.com crash has been largely eaten up. So the drop in wholesale bandwidth cost will no longer continue to drop quickly.
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Internet News
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MrMoody
Beleaguered Middle Class
join:2002-09-03
Smithfield, NC
·Embarq
| Re: Get ready said by TK Junk Mail :So the drop in wholesale bandwidth cost will no longer continue to drop quickly. Sez you. Technology continues to advance allowing more and more data through the same physical cable, and of course equipment prices drop rapidly the longer anything is out. It's the communication equivalent of Moore's Law. | |
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YouRdumB
@tel-ott.com | Try and sell bonds with a pay per byte model... Your cash flow will be inconsistent at best! Your bonds will be junk in no time
have a nice day | |
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| Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| pay per byte will never happen in the US but i could very well see low caps coming. the stock holders will demand it so the company makes more money and as such they can try and vote an increase in Dividends.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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| Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | well several companies will have issues with pay by the byte. not counting youtube. but most MMO makers for example at times deliver rather large patches via the net.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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inteller
Sociopaths always win.
join:2003-12-08
Tulsa, OK | Hey, its Death Star Jr! I mean hey, Americans can't have all the monopoly fun can we? | |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Re: Hey, its Death Star Jr! Monopoly ... with CAPS no less. | |
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TilhasBB
Formally Goden99
Premium
join:2000-08-05
canada
edit:
June 21st, @01:06PM
| Telus, Bell Canada Eye Merger I Really Hope this merge is blocked by the goverment.
Thats WAY to much power for one company.
MONOPOLY | |
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hiuu
@shawcable.net
| competitive? I do not think so. Each province has 1 or if your lucky 2 big ISP's to choose from. Each stake there territory and respect it while keeping price in the same zone. Telus and Bell are not even in my province for internet access, and the small telephone or mom and pop ISPs cannot cut it.
The state of broadband is utter crap in Canada compared to even USA. | |
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Alpine
Premium
join:2000-01-11
Atlanta, GA
| Compete? Do these companies compete directly in Canada or is it segregated like AT&T/Verizon?
If there's no direct competition already, it should pass like the AT&T merger did. If they DO compete, a closer look would certainly be warranted...
Adam | |
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| mr weather
Premium
join:2002-02-27
Mississauga, ON
| Re: Compete? said by Alpine :Do these companies compete directly in Canada or is it segregated like AT&T/Verizon? About the only service they compete in is wireless, and they both use CDMA.
Telus has wireline and intarweb out west (BC I think) and Bell does the same in Ontario and Quebec, plus ExpressVu (think Dish Network lite) across the country.
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Alpine
Premium
join:2000-01-11
Atlanta, GA | Re: Compete? Thanks. Sounds very similar to BellSouth/AT&T. | |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Rogers runs wireless on GSM/UMTS, but it doesn't have any 'boonie' coverage. Also, I'd expect iDEN to be shutdown quickly (aka Mike Network) if this merger went through.
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| | | mr weather
Premium
join:2002-02-27
Mississauga, ON
| Re: Compete? said by en102 :Also, I'd expect iDEN to be shutdown quickly (aka Mike Network) if this merger went through. I don't think they'll shut down iDEN right away even though Bell has their fledgling "10-4" service. Too many Mike users out there.
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disc
join:2005-12-31
Raleigh, NC
| going private It seems some of justification for a merger would be to prevent BCE from being taken over by private investors. Anybody understand why there's otherwise the big interest in taking BCE private? I would imagine most of the players who can do that are already holding hefty amounts of the public stock. In which case, what's the advantage of taking the company off the public market? | |
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| Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| Re: going private one of them is being less public with what you do. a fully public company atleast in the US has to pretty much make all their costs and activities public so investors and future investors can research the said company.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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Googler
join:2007-01-16
Chilliwack, BC
·Shaw
edit:
June 21st, @01:41PM
| Good and bad First the good. They are selling Bell anyways and I would far rather have it stay a Canadian Company, and not turn into another American company controlling our internet, tv, phone and such EVEN MORE. And the two companies would save a combined $800 million to $1 billion a year. And as far as I know they don't really compete much right now anyways (telus on the west, bell on the east) Biggest competion is that bell has cell phone on the west, and sattelite tv.
But the bad is the it will be a large monopoly. Though at least here in the west there is competion (telus and shaw) and we use shaw for everything, so it should not affect us to much. But I do know that our shaw digital phone goes through the Bell network, which would then become telus, who might want to cut off the competion (shaw) and either stop em from using it or charge them more which in turn could cost us more. (but shaw and bell are probaly on a long large contract so that may take a while)
Overall I am not to against it because as long as they have competion in all their areas the prices should not change much. As long as an american company does not take it over I am happy. The main thing that this will do is create less competion in the wireless market though. | |
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See 8 replies to this post |
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omgomg
@telus.net | oh man. The future is unfriendly. i can see it now.. | |
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playboy2000
join:2005-05-30
Calgary, AB
·TELUS
| Monopoly? I'm a bit leery of what this will do to the cell industy in the west. Granted most people are locked into contracts so they can't raise prices (Unless theres some sneeky provision in there), however, I think that bell is the only other serious contender with their own cell towers (I think everyone else just resells, don't quote me on that though). I'm not worried about internet and landlines becuase shaw is properly owning telus in internet and starting to bust through the door with their digital phone. | |
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JammerMan79
Premium,VIP
join:2004-05-13
Prince George, BC | Re: Monopoly? Bell uses Telus cell towers in Telus territory.. and visa-versa. There are contracts in place about this already.
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I may work for, but do not necessarily represent the views and beliefs of TELUS Communications. | |
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| | hottboiinnc
Kyle
join:2003-10-15
Toledo, OH | Re: Monopoly? Also isnt Roger's Wireless their own network? Formally AT&T Wireless? | |
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| | | mr weather
Premium
join:2002-02-27
Mississauga, ON
| Re: Monopoly? said by hottboiinnc :Also isnt Roger's Wireless their own network? Formally AT&T Wireless? Yes it is. GSM. Plus whatever they gobbled up when the assimilated Fido (also GSM).
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| | cluster5
join:2005-10-12
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Marketbridge Techn..
| quote:
Bell uses Telus cell towers in Telus territory.. and visa-versa. There are contracts in place about this already.
In the east, Telus runs its own towers in down town areas and some corridors (like highway and such). Telus user will seamlessly roam on Bell when they are out of Telus coverage (outside downtown core area). Again, in east, Bell user just use Bell towers.
The exact opposite happens in the west.
The best way to see it is when you look, in the field test page of phones, you can see the SID.
On the other hand, for GSM, Rogers run Canada. As for Fido's old antennas (as they didn't have much towers, but would rather install their antennas on roof tops, power lines and such), have been moved in some case to increase coverage and some have stayed in place. | |
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| vanDSLuser
Mahalo for reading
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Vancouver, BC | Bell rents Telus towers in the west. Telus rents Bell towers in the east. | |
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comp23423
@vif.net
| competition Competition would be nice in ALL areas. Cell / Home Phone / and Internet.
Anything with DATA is way overpriced. Cell Data and Internet Data.
Get Verizon or (insert big US company here) to expand to Canada and start some real competition.
Although, since they have no infrastructure here at all, i'm not sure how easy that would actually be. | |
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zod5000
join:2003-10-21
Edmonton, AB
·TELUS
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| What difference does it make? Basically in Canada, one company owns the phone lines, another owns the cable lines, and thats the competition. Sure both sides have to allow resellers access to their systems, but for the most part thats it.
Telus right now runs the west, bell is in the east. So what does it actually matter if Bell runs the west? Its still going to be dsl vs. cable. Its not going to improve competition, and its going to open up any new avenues either.
Infrastructures costs are fairly steep, is is why you don't see any 3rd party competition laying down fibre. I don't think this really makes a difference. | |
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canuck999999
join:2004-04-19
·MTS
| Next up Shaw and Rogers If this happens you can bet that Shaw will be on plane to Toronto before the ink is dry in an effort to woo Rogers.
In all honesty though, if this prevents Bell from being swallowed up by an American investor group then I won't complain as loudly if things go horribly wrong. Not that I despise all foreign ownership but I have always been leary of foreign ownership in certain sectors, especially after that whole BSE incident (which will most likely be replayed in the Barley sector in the future).
But I digress, this merger will go through as there isn't political will in Ottawa to stop it. From what I hear the Tories are standing on the sidelines, the Bloc follow the Tories (since seeing them fall means they pretty much lose all their power), nobody listens to the NDP so it doesn't matter which side they take and people still seem to be eyeing the Libs with suspicion. The most important factor, the Canadian people, are far to apathetic to care, unless we think we are going to get horribly screwed by this we won't offer too much resistance. | |
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bohn
join:2006-05-30
Scarborough, ON
| Canadians will all switch to US satellite for broadband Canada has done a great job at creating an illusion that bandwidth costs a fortune. Canadians not being the sharpest knife in the drawer have in large part fallen for this complete and total lie. The Canadian dollar is now at 95 cents US. Now if a Canadian's brain worked they'd see so but communistcast or commycast has cap of 200 gigabytes a month. In Canada it's 30 gigabytes and lose your house if you go over that in a month. As you can see satellite internet from America will be about half the cost of Canadian broadband as broadband in the entire world except Canada continues to fall in price. Broadband in Canada will go the way of the do-do bird. Each and every Canadian will have a satellite dish and get their broadband from America. This is the future of the internet in Canada. | |
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Telus, Bell Canada Eye Merger
[POLL] Is pay per byte coming to the U.S.