PlatooN join:2007-02-13 Kitchener, ON |
Optik? LOLSo Telus wants to be like bell. Using a shitty pun on fibre optics (fibe ... optik)
ubb
Good game telus
might as well just rebrand as bell west now | |
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| batterupI Can Not Tell A Lie. Premium Member join:2003-02-06 Netcong, NJ |
batterup
Premium Member
2011-Apr-26 11:12 am
Re: Optik? LOLsaid by PlatooN:So Telus wants to be like bell. I can't see a provider offering truly unlimited bandwidth when others have caps. 90% of the users never hit the cap and stay where they are. The other 10% would all jump to the uncapped provider. In New Jersey we have millions of people who have a choice of caped Comcast or truly unlimited FiOS or DSL. Guess what? There is no great mass migration to FiOS or DSL. Did I just contradict myself? So most people truly don't care about caps and Verizon can handle all of the bandwidth "hogs" Comcast can throw at them. This requires some study. | |
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JasonOD
Anon
2011-Apr-26 11:43 am
Re: Optik? LOLWhat annoys me is the fact that some companies who cap, like Comcast, don't charge overages. I'm sure people would be willing to pay more rather than risk cut-off (which I know doesn't happen very frequently nowdays).
Still, money is being left on the table. | |
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| | | SpaethCoDigital Plumber MVM join:2001-04-21 Minneapolis, MN |
Re: Optik? LOLsaid by JasonOD :What annoys me is the fact that some companies who cap, like Comcast, don't charge overages. I'm sure people would be willing to pay more rather than risk cut-off (which I know doesn't happen very frequently nowdays).
Still, money is being left on the table. No caps on Comcast business services -- plans start at around $60. The base plan with Comcast is now, what, $46? So for about $14 you can live cap-free. | |
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DataRiker
Premium Member
2011-Apr-27 11:07 am
Re: Optik? LOLsaid by SpaethCo:said by JasonOD :What annoys me is the fact that some companies who cap, like Comcast, don't charge overages. I'm sure people would be willing to pay more rather than risk cut-off (which I know doesn't happen very frequently nowdays).
Still, money is being left on the table. No caps on Comcast business services -- plans start at around $60. The base plan with Comcast is now, what, $46? So for about $14 you can live cap-free. Good point. I would definitely be on that plan if I was with Comcast. | |
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| Thaler Premium Member join:2004-02-02 Los Angeles, CA |
to PlatooN
No kidding. And a 15 GB/month cap? Holy hell that's low - even lower than Bell's proposed 25 GB/month caps.
So, what's Telus' game plan to differentiate themselves from Bell, when it just seems like they're reselling the same service...only crappier? | |
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| | pnjunctionTeksavvy Extreme Premium Member join:2008-01-24 Toronto, ON |
Re: Optik? LOLBell and Telus are the ILEC in different regions, they don't compete directly with each other in wired services only with the cable companies in their respective regions. | |
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| | | JammerMan79 Premium Member join:2004-05-13 Prince George, BC |
Re: Optik? LOLalso... 15 GB was the typical usage not the cap | |
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are they being forced in to this?by bell raising their wholesale bandwidth costs? it's not really their fault if they're going to get hit hard from bell. | |
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| nanaki333 |
Re: are they being forced in to this?i just realized i was confusing telus with teksavvy. DOH! | |
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Need a new planI wish we could use the Asian model for broadband. Cheap, unlimited, and ubiquitous. | |
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DoSo
Anon
2011-Apr-26 2:51 pm
Re: Need a new plansaid by DataRiker:I wish we could use the Asian model for broadband. Cheap, unlimited, and ubiquitous. How do you suppose it can be implemented in this country? | |
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| | MashikiBalking The Enemy's Plans join:2002-02-04 Woodstock, ON |
Re: Need a new planVery easily. This is the population breakdown in Canada there's other updated maps from 2006/7 but they're pretty much the same. The entire population lives along strongly developed coridors unless they're in a remote outpost in the far north, or along Hudson's Bay. | |
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to DoSo
said by DoSo :said by DataRiker:I wish we could use the Asian model for broadband. Cheap, unlimited, and ubiquitous. How do you suppose it can be implemented in this country? Exactly the same way they do it there. | |
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DoSo
Anon
2011-Apr-26 11:00 pm
Re: Need a new planI'm going to assume that you're referring to South Korea. Is such an implementation scalable to the entire U.S.? | |
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Re: Need a new plansaid by DoSo :I'm going to assume that you're referring to South Korea. Is such an implementation scalable to the entire U.S.? Yes, why wouldn't it be? Its not rocket science. They don't exist in some alternate dimension. They simply have different regulatory philosophy. I've been there, had a FAST and unlimited cable connection for about 20 USD / month on equipment that looked like it was 60 years old if it was a day. | |
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Yeah, right."Despite these competitive shortcomings, Telus, one of the few non-overage ISPs..."
Hah! Telus suspended me for using 300GB in a month. It was on that day that I discovered Teksavvy. Best internet-related thing that's ever happened to me. | |
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Chuck kCAR
Anon
2011-Apr-26 10:20 am
Many will go back to dial-upSince you can't really use your broadband connection for anything other than reading email and browsing the internet many will just return to dial-up to save money. The smart ones will be subscribing to dial-up service hosted in America as the cost is less than half or one third of what you'd pay in Canada plus you get the newsgroups and real email. | |
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| batterupI Can Not Tell A Lie. Premium Member join:2003-02-06 Netcong, NJ |
batterup
Premium Member
2011-Apr-26 11:18 am
Re: Many will go back to dial-upsaid by Chuck kCAR :Since you can't really use your broadband connection for anything other than reading email and browsing the internet many will just return to dial-up to save money. That is not going to happen. I tried a dial-up connection just because I could. I could not get one page to load before my free 1/2 hour ran out. Web pages have moved way beyond dial-up. BBS and Telenet is all one can now use with dial-up. | |
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Wow...What an innovative way to add value to their product offering that benefits the customer! | |
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GuspazGuspaz MVM join:2001-11-05 Montreal, QC |
Guspaz
MVM
2011-Apr-26 10:45 am
Sigh.$35 to get an extra 60GB. Nice. My monthly usage of 400GB would only cost me $233 per month.
Good thing I don't use IPTV too, that can get into the terabytes per month. Which is why no independent company offers IPTV in Canada, because Bell/Telus/etc would rape the customers on overage charges. | |
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We need regulationI wish regulatory authorities would put a stop to all this. All these caps and overage fees are just going to put one big brake on all the innovative new uses for the net that have been coming along.
"pay for internet capacity we use"? That's insane. The internet isn't running out of capacity. With proper congestion management there is no need to charge people more.
This is nothing but a cash grab, and it will continue as long as the governments are in the big business pockets. | |
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And I remember a time when I envied Canadian broadbandBack in the mid 90's when I was cruising at a cool 48kbps on my dial-up modem and my canadian quake playing friends were kicking it at about 200 times that speed on cable internet.
A sad day. | |
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...What a bunch of fucking scumbags | |
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sbrook Mod join:2001-12-14 Ottawa |
sbrook
Mod
2011-Apr-26 11:03 am
It`s all about Being CompetitiveIt`s that new idea of competitive again ...
If Shaw can do it, so can we. | |
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FFH5 Premium Member join:2002-03-03 Tavistock NJ |
FFH5
Premium Member
2011-Apr-26 12:17 pm
Caps & UBB being driven by Netflix effectAll the recent movement by broadband providers to caps & UBB has been driven by the trend to higher and higher online video viewing(Netflix & others). That has driven companies to make a decision: - greatly increase prices on unlimited services to cover increased infrastructure costs; or - keep prices the same for majority of users, but charge heavy users(re: video viewers) more & more to fund those same capital improvements. The 2nd option also has the effect of slowing video viewing growth; thereby slowing need to expand infrastructure quickly.
A 3rd option has been foreclosed on due to "network neutrality" political concerns. And that is charge the providers of video services money to deliver their product; thereby funding infrastructure growth. Or allow broadband providers to get a cut of the action by hosting video services on their own backbones(that needs Hollywood deals).
Comcast, thru acquisition of Hollywood NBCU, has found another way - just buy the video provider so they get their piece of the video viewing action thru ownership. | |
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Bor
Anon
2011-Apr-26 8:59 pm
Re: Caps & UBB being driven by Netflix effectThere's been all sorts of handwaving about the supposed costs of heavy users, without any actual numbers to back it up.
Without actual hard evidence of the extent of these supposed infrastructure costs, I'm more inclined to believe it's about stifling competition from internet video and not leaving any money on the table.
Given the profitability of the big incumbents, I frankly do not see that they cannot afford infrastructure improvements. They would prefer not to pay, but I don't believe it's some existential threat posed to drive them into bankruptcy. | |
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to FFH5
said by FFH5: - greatly increase prices on unlimited services to cover increased infrastructure costs; Only this part's not true. It puts dumb pipe providers with vested interests in a jam. Its obvious, we all know it, and its amazing that people still act as it its not true. Meanwhile Asia has cheap, unlimited ( or in some cases very mildly limited ), and ubiquitous access. | |
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milnoc
Member
2011-Apr-26 1:06 pm
It bears repeating what UBB really is... | |
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Re: It bears repeating what UBB really is...said by milnoc:(youtube clip) said. Good video... | |
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jarretautech
Anon
2011-Apr-26 1:15 pm
do any of you guys "pay" for food when you go to a resdo any of you "pay" for food when you go to a restaurant?
if so, then shut up and accept the fact that you must 'pay' for what you 'use'
these companies are in the business of, well, running a business! NOT being a charity.
i suggest if you want your own "free" internet, you build your own isp from scratch and use that. | |
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Monkey see........ monkey do. | |
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MerinXCrunching for Cures Premium Member join:2011-02-03 |
MerinX
Premium Member
2011-Apr-26 4:45 pm
Telus UBB fail!Honestly being allowed to use your connection is the only real advantage Telus had over Shaw, now that the extreme tier has been upgraded to 25/2.5. Not to mention you can not even get Telus's comparable speed tier in all areas(sure 250gigs is a more reasonable limit compared to bell's 75gigs/shaw's 100gigs but what is the point if nobody can upgrade to it). | |
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heat84DSLR Influencer join:2004-03-11 Delray Beach, FL |
heat84
Member
2011-Apr-26 7:50 pm
Revolution!Why don't you guys break out the pitch forks and torches and charge on Ottawa and start lynching people? We should be doing that here to stop our government from killing our economy. I've said it before and I'll say it again. We've become too civilized. In more primitive times, governments would be run out of town or killed for the crap ours are getting away with. | |
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mplsguy
Anon
2011-Apr-26 11:54 pm
Re: Revolution!My sentiments exactly.... getting screwed has become the order of the day. Many times I'd be listening to the radio in Ottawa and one would hear something to the tune of "oh well guess this price is going up again/today", and the announcer would have such a cheerful voice!, one would swear it was a rebate or deduction of some sort!!!! While the government is just as bad for literally sodomizing it's population without regard, ITS THE PEOPLE'S FAULT AS WELL. THE MAJORITY OF THE POPULACE EITHER FEAR THE BIG COMPANIES/GOVERNMENT OR SIMPLY ENJOY TAKING IT UP THE ANUS. I've truly come to believe that Canadians love a price increase of some sort; perhaps they mistakingly equate it to a higher standard of living - who knows. I truly feel Canada is the most expensive place to live on the face of the earth; heck probably the entire Universe - High/Increasing taxes, increasing costs of everything, increasing conditions affixed to everything - where does it end? Its not just about hockey Canada, wake up. eh? | |
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experienced
Anon
2011-Apr-26 9:43 pm
Analogies and comparisons don't work here.The restaurant, metered service similar to utility (gas/electricity), or other - they just don't apply. The situation is more complex than these simplifications allow for.
This is a long post - but please don't be deterred by that. I'm only trying to help.
And I'll tell you why, because I've worked in the IT industry for a long time, and a healthy portion of that has been supporting ISPs in Canada and the USA. No, I don't work for any of the oligarchy (Telus/Shaw/Bell/Rogers), and I assure you, I hate them for pulling this shit. A lot.
At present, bandwidth is cheap per megabit - cheaper than ever, and also more available. Between DOCSIS 3 and FTTH, you can get awesome speeds for affordable prices. But do you actually know what's required for an ISP to deliver this? Aside from all of the physical lines, trenching, poles, wiring centres, and so forth, the bigger picture is this: can the infrastructure support the upper end of what's being offered to the customers?
Here's an example: if you have 10 customers subscribed to 10mbit over 1mbit packages, your bottom line is: can our infrastructure support sustained usage of 100mbit downstream and 10mbit upstream?
ISPs need to be worried about their maximum capacity. Looking at it from a purely business perspective, it's not hard to see how advertising and selling more customer bandwidth can quickly snowball into huge infrastructure costs (or a very unhappy customer base if you don't deliver the bandwidth you're charging for). It's not like these behemoths don't have the money, but we'll get to that in a moment...
So, naturally, ISPs (well, responsible ones), keep track of how much bandwidth is flowing through the various parts of their network at any one time. There are lots of programs and devices out there designed to do this, create fancy graphs, and charts, and then send them to the NOC. By gathering up this information over a period of time, patterns emerge, and it becomes easier to understand how much your customers really do use their internet connections, and when.
Peak usage times are when the most people are doing the most stuff with their internet connections, and thereby generating the most overall bandwidth usage in a network. These are the times most likely to strain a network, and they are the embodiment of the maximum capacity concern I explained above.
Making sure a network can support a high maximum capacity costs money. A lot of it. You need experienced people planning out your outages and upgrades, 5-to-7 figure equipment all over the place, fiber optics, and a ton of other stuff. It's a big deal.
Now, here's the kicker: It doesn't really matter who is doing what during peak times. Everyone is contributing to the issue. You could have 10000 users on 1mbit happily surfing, youtubing, grabbing a few tracks from itunes, gaming - everything - or, you could have 100 users of 100mbit and face the exact same root issue - can my network support 10gbit sustained?
So ultimately, it doesn't matter how much traffic (general term for amalgamated data throughput) you generate in a month, it matters much more when you are generating that traffic. Peak times can vary depending on a variety of factors, but generally you're looking at weeknights and Sunday evenings as the big hitters. You can move 500gb a month, and if you schedule your applications to only operate in certain timeframes (wee hours of the night, for example), there's a damn good chance that the ISP's infrastructure will be far less impacted, if at all.
This is the real situation that ISPs face. It's complicated. It's really difficult to bill for - how do you bill users who, quantitatively, use only 30gb/month, but that 1gb/day is during the worst peak time possible? And the opposite user I mentioned above, who uses 500gb a month, but the timeframes are when your network is at its absolute least load such that their actions have virtually no impact on your network?
These giants, however, are not exactly short on money. Telus alone threw 700 million at a cellular network upgrade over a very short time (to make sure they're the 3.79G network or something). The reasons they give for UBB are bullshit, make no mistake about it. When 4 companies run an entire multi-million dollar industry throughout a country, and they all decide to announce price changes together, it should certainly get your attention.
Unfortunately, the explanation I'm giving you here is something that the vast majority of people can't be bothered to learn or give a shit about. I'd wager that most people would glance and immediately tell themselves "too long, must be complicated" and toss it. I highly doubt that the ISP reps who explain this to the media nor the media people relaying it to the public understand the full situation either.
Oh, one more thing. It's not a coincidence that these companies compete in television services and this whole UBB issue started after Netflix announced they were coming to Canada. If you cancel your TV and use your internet to watch TV instead, then these companies are losing a lot of pre-existing and practically for-granted revenue. Caps & limits will prevent a huge percentage of people from even considering Netflix or similar options on fear alone.
If it really bothers you, there are things you can do. Call and bitch at their retentions department about how UBB is bullshit and threaten to jump ship if they drop it into place. Do it more than once. Email them a complaint. Learn more about UBB and the growing battle between the consumer public of Canada and overcharging overlords at www.openmedia.ca. Support organizations like CNOC (www.cnoc.ca, a group of small ISPs trying to fight the superpower telcos & cablecos for their own equal pricing), so they can create real competition on the market and offer you solutions that you can't get right now.
The deliciously ironic fact is that these very internet service providers we're weighing in against are providing us the best weapon available - the internet! It empowers us to connect with more people and more information than ever before, with absurd convenience and speed. | |
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inetG1
Anon
2011-Apr-26 10:39 pm
to stop the cap vote for the fed. party that's aginst capsThe government did try to stop bell from capping by ordering crtc to review the decision until the opposition parties chose to force election. | |
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FiReSTaRT
Premium Member
2011-Apr-27 11:47 pm
Re: to stop the cap vote for the fed. party that's aginst capsI heard a Bell tech tell a trainee that they were planning a merger. It's pretty low-level rumor, but...... It's only natural that they'd align their billing practices before that happens. | |
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