  Noah VailSon made my AvatarPremium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:1
 ·Bright House
 ·Sprint Mobile Br..
1 edit | OK EFF I'm with you on this one.
It was never OK to monitor every US Citizen's web traffic in order to catch a few bad guys.
This time, I'll admit the Republicans and Conservatives are on the wrong side of the issue.
Of course so is Barack Obama.
The presidency was a guarantee for him if he would have stood up and openly declared what the FISA bill really entailed.
What, do you suppose, did it take to make him give that up?
NV | |
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 | | | Re: OK EFF IRS audits in 3.....2.....1 | |
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| |  N3OGHYo Soy Col. "Bat" GuanoPremium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:1 | Re: OK EFF said by battleop:IRS audits in 3.....2.....1 Clearly would have been seen as retaliatory, concerning he voted for the Telco Immunity bill at the time he was a front runner for the Presidency.
No, the real answer is that Obama is the same as all the rest of them. People just haven't realized it yet.
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Petty people are disproportionably corrupted by petty power… | |
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2 edits | Re: OK EFF said by N3OGH:said by battleop:IRS audits in 3.....2.....1 Clearly would have been seen as retaliatory, concerning he voted for the Telco Immunity bill at the time he was a front runner for the Presidency. No, the real answer is that Obama is the same as all the rest of them. People just haven't realized it yet. Indeed. Obama dealt a major slap to the face of any logical person who may be illogical enough to vote for him. Many liberals also forget it was Clinton who signed the federal Defense of Marriage before they praise him as one of the best.
Bush should have been impeached years ago for his treacherous acts as President, and thrown in jail, along with his cohorts Cheney, Gonzales, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Rice, etc. Goes to show how more useless this political system is becoming which allows these politicians to be bought by the rich and screw everyone else. Some suggest this is a Democracy, some a Republic, but I suggest it's more like corporate socialism / corporate oligarchy disguised as some sort of system to benefit the people to prevent them from rebelling.
At any rate, hopefully EFF wins this case and the ridiculous illegal wiretaps are done away with and FISA is reverted to a previous version in Congress, while Mark Klein is written in our history books as a hero who decided to take the path against both big corporate-run government and big corporation at the same time. The most important part is it's the right decision even though some idiots will be calling him a traitor. He's indeed a hero and he has my praise and support, as well as the EFF in this case.
--
Moore/Alexander 2008
Conservatives love religious-like aphorisms so here's one: "Freedom isn't free. It's Made in China." | |
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| | | | | | Re: OK EFF It's not entirely a slap in the face as long as he advocates returning to a system of warrants. A lot of damage could have been done if every American was allowed to sue AT&T. When you look at the list the eff is suing, "President George W. Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney, Cheney's chief of staff David Addington, former Attorney General and White House Counsel Alberto Gonzales and other individuals", it's not that big of a leap to imagine AT&T being able to legally claim they were forced into it somehow. They could have been threaten with actions against them in other areas or with documents that by law cannot be publicly acknowledged.
So in conclusion, Obama is our best chance at returning to a system of warrants. And McCain would try to ensure less actions required warrants. So take your pick. | |
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| | | | | | | Re: OK EFF said by insomniac84:It's not entirely a slap in the face as long as he advocates returning to a system of warrants. A lot of damage could have been done if every American was allowed to sue AT&T. When you look at the list the eff is suing, "President George W. Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney, Cheney's chief of staff David Addington, former Attorney General and White House Counsel Alberto Gonzales and other individuals", it's not that big of a leap to imagine AT&T being able to legally claim they were forced into it somehow. They could have been threaten with actions against them in other areas or with documents that by law cannot be publicly acknowledged. So in conclusion, Obama is our best chance at returning to a system of warrants. And McCain would try to ensure less actions required warrants. So take your pick. That doesn't explain why AT&T also paid for the DNC.
This is entirely contradictory to what you're saying, and this is by his actions, so there's no reason to believe he'd save people's rights in this case. None whatsoever. Entirely to the opposite at that. Especially when the NSA is part of the executive branch and, being President, you really think he's going to give up that power?
Nope, it rests entirely on the courts to uphold the Constitution since neither Obama/Biden or McCain/Palin will.
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Moore/Alexander 2008
Conservatives love religious-like aphorisms so here's one: "Freedom isn't free. It's Made in China." | |
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| | | | | | | | Re: OK EFF Obama might give up the power. McCain will expand it. Take your pick. | |
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| | | | | | | Noah VailSon made my AvatarPremium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Bright House
·Sprint Mobile Br..
| Re: OK EFF said by insomniac84:Obama might give up the power. McCain will expand it. Take your pick. I can't find anything in Obama's past that would indicate that he might give up power. I can't think of any change he's put forth that wouldn't take an increase of government power to have it come to pass.
NV
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Abortion: A Republican Plot to Thin the Liberal Herd. | |
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: OK EFF said by Noah Vail:I can't find anything in Obama's past that would indicate that he might give up power. I can't think of any change he's put forth that wouldn't take an increase of government power to have it come to pass. I guess you don't have access to google. one link provided for your laziness | |
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| | | | | | | | | Noah VailSon made my AvatarPremium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Bright House
·Sprint Mobile Br..
| Re: OK EFF said by insomniac84:said by Noah Vail:I can't find anything in Obama's past that would indicate that he might give up power. I can't think of any change he's put forth that wouldn't take an increase of government power to have it come to pass. I guess you don't have access to google. one link provided for your laziness So you consider a reference to instituting a New AG Investigation on the White House a reduction in government power?
Perhaps in BO's world and yours it is.
NV
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Abortion: A Republican Plot to Thin the Liberal Herd. | |
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| Reviews:
·RoadRunner Cable
| said by Noah Vail:The presidency was a guarantee for (Obama) if he would have stood up and openly declared what the FISA bill really entailed. oh HA AH AH HA HA
stop you're killing me | |
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 koitsuPremium,MVM
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
kudos:14 | Good reason to donate Consider donating to the EFF (I myself did today):
»www.eff.org/support
Normally I don't involve myself with such matters, but this particular issue is (in my eyes) a black-and-white closed-book matter.
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Making life hard for others since 1977.
I speak for myself and not my employer/affiliates of my employer. | |
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|  Lark3poPremium
join:2003-08-05
Madison, AL | Re: Good reason to donate Thanks for the link. | |
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 MxxCon
join:1999-11-19
Brooklyn, NY | I support them. Based on these actions i just donated $100 to EFF. | |
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|  P NessYou'Ve Forgotten 9-11 AlreadyPremium
join:2001-08-29
way way out | Re: I support them. i am in for 50.00 | |
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| | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | Re: I support them. said by P Ness:i am in for 50.00 none of you are, but it makes for a good post.
I wonder if the EFF ever actually read the law.. if so, they'd know they can't sue a sitting president, or sue him for what he did in his line of duty, running the country.
as much as I don't like what he did, let's be real here. | |
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| | |  cho0b
join:2006-09-26
united state | Re: I support them. They're many of the best and brightest lawyers in the nation.. if not the world. I can only assume they have an idea of what they are doing.  | |
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| | | | | | Re: I support them. said by cho0b:They're many of the best and brightest lawyers in the nation.. if not the world. I can only assume they have an idea of what they are doing. Then why are they always losing?   
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Saving the world keeps me busy. However, I find Earth very primitive from my home planet of Krypton.
-Supergirl | |
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| | | | | axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC Reviews:
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: I support them. Because they take on the most corrupt and entrenched interests in court. If they didn't expose these things and test the horrible laws and interpretations of laws that have gotten on the books, we'd just go on pretending we still had rights while not actually having them.
Before you can fix a problem, you have to admit it exists. Now it's up to us to elect people who will fix the problems. | |
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| | | | | cho0b
join:2006-09-26
united state | They helped me win my case. | |
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| | | | | | said by cho0b:They're many of the best and brightest lawyers in the nation.. if not the world. I can only assume they have an idea of what they are doing. Of course they know what they're doing. They're whipping up donations from like minded people. The lawsuit itself is a nonstarter but smart lawyers aren't about winning, they're about getting paid.
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It's a trick. Get an axe. - Ash | |
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| | | | | cho0b
join:2006-09-26
united state | Re: I support them. Yeah yeah, I get it. They're lawyers. That automatically means everything they do is for profit and never to help people out.
Do you know much about the EFF or what they are about? If they weren't around I don't think we'd have a good understanding of what we're up against in the technology front. | |
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| | | | | rpstomPremium
join:2007-03-08
Cumming, GA | you just hit the nail on the head there. All of you ppl sending money to support this are just sending straight to the lawyers back pocket. I wouldn't be suprised if soon you see one of those ads on tv saying "have you been harmed by warantless wiretaping, if so call the law offices of blah blah blah." | |
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| | | | | | MxxCon
join:1999-11-19
Brooklyn, NY | Re: I support them. said by rpstom:you just hit the nail on the head there. All of you ppl sending money to support this are just sending straight to the lawyers back pocket. I wouldn't be suprised if soon you see one of those ads on tv saying "have you been harmed by warantless wiretaping, if so call the law offices of blah blah blah." it's obvious you don't understand how 501 organizations function, so why don't you go educate yourself and don't comment on this topic anymore.
you ignorance is simply stunning. | |
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| | | | | | | rpstomPremium
join:2007-03-08
Cumming, GA
1 edit | Re: I support them. I was illustrating absurdidy with being absurd. But that still does not mean that some abulance chaser lawyer would not jump at the chance to try and turn this into a class action.
Oh, and by the way I will comment on what I like, whenever I like. Your arrogance is simply stunning. | |
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| | | Walk the plank... I think the govt should use the wiretaps to see if the EFF is being funded by terrorist organizations. Utilize agents to watch their every move. Instead of bloodshed, they are bleeding the country by trying to expose secrets, this is treachery! | |
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| | | | Re: Walk the plank... said by ninjatutle:I think the govt should use the wiretaps to see if the EFF is being funded by terrorist organizations. Utilize agents to watch their every move. Instead of bloodshed, they are bleeding the country by trying to expose secrets, this is treachery! You are one sick puppy! | |
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See 6 replies to this post |
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| |  SLDPremium
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA | Why go after EFF when you can shout down P2P?!? | |
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|  badtripI heart the East BayPremium
join:2004-03-20
Albany, CA | Re: I support them. said by MxxCon:Based on these actions i just donated $100 to EFF. I donated $65 myself. BRAVO to the EFF! | |
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| | W. Bush? I wasn't aware someone could sue the president..? | |
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See 9 replies to this post |
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| | Enemy of the state Throw these clowns into Guantanamo. | |
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See 9 replies to this post |
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 ShamayimI already have a Messiah.Premium
join:2002-09-23 | No EFFin way! I'm glad Klein is still in the fight. Go get 'em! | |
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| | Scary math N = number of EFF staff members working on this.
K = number of empty cells in Guantanamo.
K >= N ??? | |
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| | EFF Wiretapping i just finished watching the documentary at »wiretappingsweden.com/ and I really hope we respect our privacy rights a little more in the US. These kinds of actions by the EFF definetly help. | |
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 NyQuil Kid8f The Nyquil Kid
join:2001-01-06
Brick, NJ | Typical.... EFF: We want this illegal activity stopped
GVT: But it helps the US to prevent another 9-11
EFF: We don't care - stop it.
GVT: Ok fine.
Some time later - another terrorist attack occurs
EFF: How could you have let this happen? Don't you watch what they are doing?
GVT: (rolls eyes...)
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[8F] The NyQuil Kid comes into town not looking for trouble...n00bz gang up, but he ain't seein' double,...pulls and draws, his deagles two...n00bz litter the ground you know it's true. | |
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See 36 replies to this post |
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| Noah VailSon made my AvatarPremium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Bright House
·Sprint Mobile Br..
| Re: EFF can't Sue President said by Mr Matt:  EFF can't sue president because he acts as though he is above the law and constitution. EFF can't sue president because our fascist government and business are one in the same. President will ignore any subpoenas. EFF can't sue presidents lackeys because he will claim executive privilege. If presidents lackeys are sent to prison he will pardon them. If all this accomplishes
is to force the Media
to discuss the ACTUAL reason that AT&T was sued
(data tapping every American, not phone taping a few suspects),
it will have accomplished a great deal.
NV
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Abortion: A Republican Plot to Thin the Liberal Herd. | |
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| | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | Re: EFF can't Sue President being the current news cycle is about 10 days.. make it scream for all it's worth.. that's all you'll get. The US has a short memory. | |
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|  mrchrisOut and aroundPremium
join:2002-10-01
North Babylon, NY | He can in January! | |
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 ShootToThrilTell The TruthPremium
join:2004-06-07
Sherman Oaks, CA
2 edits | Great Tool Wrong Hands?!?!? It's a great tool that should be used wisely to eliminate threats to National Security however, in the hands of a Corrupt Government such as ours I worry what it's being used for as we speak. with this "Enron" government i wouldn't give them any power over my personal information unless they need my Social Security number to put a note on file that my taxes will be reduced next to nothing for the rest of my life. | |
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| | | Re: Great Tool Wrong Hands?!?!? LOL You're funny! | |
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1 edit | Re: Great Tool Wrong Hands?!?!? The government's official explanation:
The government wiretaps your phone without a warrant and overhears a conversation that sounds like you may be a terrorist. They immediately inform the FBI who investigate, interrogate, threaten to destroy your life, and throw you in jail.
Or:
The government wiretaps your phone without a warrant and overhears a conversation that sounds like you may be a terrorist working under the table. They immediately inform the FBI IRS who investigate, interrogate, threaten to destroy your life, and throw you in jail.
Or:
The government wiretaps your phone without a warrant and overhears a conversation that sounds like you may be a terrorist an illegal downloader. They immediately inform the FBI MaFIAA who investigate, interrogate, threaten to destroy your life, and throw you in jail.
Which of the above would validate the use of an warrant-less wiretap? The only thing different is the phone number the government dials. | |
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| | all your base are belong to us Despite such intentions by the EFF and others, this is unlikely to ever be bottled back up, put back in its box, shelved, or shut down.
While I do not like the idea of "Big Brother" sniffing every little packet of fun that travels across all of the networks, I find it highly unlikely that this will ever be undone, regardless of the outcome of this, or any other such actions.
The temptation by anyone in power to use this, let alone ABuse it, is far too great. And it's been going on for a lot longer than even "Echelon" or any of those fun code names... Blaming those currently in control will do very little, even IF they're taken down a notch.
Such an "all seeing eye" isn't disappearing no matter what this EFF suit does. If anything, it's already growing, becoming more resilient, having more secretive taps put in place, and far fewer people being told about such things. Whether or not it's actually happening now, one could deduce that this is the most logical course of action. The internet was designed to be rather redundant, right? Would that not mean that theirs is even better 
About the only way it could ever be undone is to have it physically done by all the techs at each facility at the same time. Proving this even happened would also be difficult.
Barring a solemn effort by all involved telco techs, the only other option is Fight Club style.
Orwell would be impressed and saddened.
Freedom turning to slavery,
Ignorance becoming strength
War being peace
People loving Big Brother...
...All you need is love... | |
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EPS
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA | Well, It's good to see that the EFF is going after the actual people responsible for the warrantless wiretapping program's existence- it's the most logical target, I'd say. | |
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| | EFF v. Palin I am all for the EFF defending our right to privacy, they just need to apply the same standards to Palin's loss of privacy and sue the idiot's who broke her yahoo account open. | |
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| Noah VailSon made my AvatarPremium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Bright House
·Sprint Mobile Br..
| You've got it backward. We have the nitwit responsible for jacking her account.
He's toast. That story is mostly already over.
Data tapping every American is just gearing up. The hardware and software are bid and are presently under construction.
This hasn't even begun yet. Our grandchildren will have every inch of their lives monitored and scrutinized.
The FISA bill is the moment we'll be able to look back on as the point of origin. I believe the world really has changed.
We've incurred the auto accident, but haven't received the impact yet. By the time the shock of the injuries wear off and we begin to feel the pain; most of us will belong to someone else.
NV
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Abortion: A Republican Plot to Thin the Liberal Herd. | |
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|  ztmikeMark for moderationPremium
join:2001-08-02
Michigan City, IN | Re: EFF v. Palin said by christiano :
I am all for the EFF defending our right to privacy, they just need to apply the same standards to Palin's loss of privacy and sue the idiot's who broke her yahoo account open.
Cry us a river.
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ZZPERFORMANCE | |
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|  kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY | said by christiano :
I am all for the EFF defending our right to privacy, they just need to apply the same standards to Palin's loss of privacy and sue the idiot's who broke her yahoo account open.
As soon as they're done with cases involving most of us, ~300M people, they will go and help that hilariously clueless, angry old redneck bitch in the snow, eyeballing Russia...
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[BQUOTE=[user=bicker]]Waaaa waaaa waaaa. You just want what you want and don't care to factor in what is right or true. Your perspectives are un-American, and deserve far more ridicule than I'm prepared to pile on them.
[/BQUOTE] | |
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| | | | Re: EFF v. Palin said by kamm:As soon as they're done with cases involving most of us, ~300M people, they will go and help that hilariously clueless, angry old redneck bitch in the snow, eyeballing Russia... So people from Alaska aren't allowed the same legal protections as regular people from New York? Nice elitism. Sounds a lot like 'get in the back of the bus'.
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It's a trick. Get an axe. - Ash | |
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| | Congress recently voted to grant the phone companies immunit ans the same will happen for the NSA, President Bush and Vice President Cheney
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Now I wait for "your moderator at work."
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| |  Personally...
I cannot count the number of conversations in which hypothetical talk has taken place between friends and myself, ranging from talking about home made bombs, to kidnapping, to extortion, to the intentional spreading of the common cold equating to biological warfare.
I also enojy talking on the phone about how the second ammendment states "the right to own and bear arms," and how "arms" is not limited only to firearms, but is all inclusive - which means ownership of biological, chemical, and nuclear arms by civilians are all protected by the second ammendment. I usually mention Iran in conjunction with where one might source a nuclear weapon, just for giggles.
I feel that, if I am to do my patriotic duty, I might as well help to overload their resources. After all, there's how many million of us, and how few of them listening in on our conversations? Let them come knock on my door - I'll gladly invite them in, cough on them, and offer them a warm cup of urine. What can they do, take me in for questioning? OH NOES! They'll find out that I'm just wasting their time - what's the punnishment for that? My release and return to freedom?!?
Call me crazy... I call myself patriotic. If they wish to be so idiotic as to listen to the bull I intentionally churn out over the telephone (knowing full well that they're supposedly listening in on everything), then they deserve to be wasting their time. Just mention Operation (insert your made up name here), and surely their ears will perk up for nothing. Operation Dog Tail, Operation Killjoy, Operation Grey Hair, whatever... Be sure to talk in a subversive manner along with mentioning your specific operation, as it adds a touch of authenticity to further confound them, as they attempt to investigate nothingness. | |
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| | | Re: Personally... Ok, well, no need to do all of that. It will eventually come back to bite them in the ass. It always does, then they'll try to cover it up again, but eventually, it won't work. Nothing lasts forever. It's called a revolution. We The People. | |
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 TransmasterDon't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY | It worked No dummies at the EFF, Suing the President will bring in lot and lots of money. Not only that because they are suing the Great Satan in the White House they will get numerous interviews with NPR, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, etc. The only thing is EFF is going to piss off the ACLU because they will be horning in on the money they would normally get.
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Send a prayer to Allah, eat Beans. | |
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1 edit | Re: It worked If they go after the President. Its the tax payers that will pay for it in the end. lol | |
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| | up next the EFF sues God and Alexander G. Bell (posthumously) | |
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| Noah VailSon made my AvatarPremium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:1 | Gee Whiz. You put that out there like it meant something.
NV | |
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 GlobalMindDomino Dude, POWER Systems GuyPremium
join:2001-10-29
Hollywood, FL | Better here than not Frankly orgs like the EFF are a good thing. It's pretty silly to think otherwise regardless of what political party you subscribe to. Watching the watchers is a necessity.
I also think it's pretty funny the ones who think it's perfectly fine to wiretap everyone's conversations because "they don't have anything to hide." That's just hilarious.
And so we're clear this thing about the information prior to 9/11, well guess what both Clinton and Bush had information which could have prevented it, prior to any extra wiretapping/monitoring. There's no party high ground there.
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TheGlobalMind.com | Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go? | Trust the instinct to the end, though you can render no reason. Ralph Waldo Emerson
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| | | Get a clue... If you go and live for a few years in a more civilized country, like Canada, Sweden or France, then by comparison you will realize that the US is a corporate police state. Wake up you sheep and take back your country. | |
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| | Noah VailSon made my AvatarPremium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Bright House
·Sprint Mobile Br..
| Re: Get a clue... said by Rebellious:If you go and live for a few years in a more civilized country, like Canada, Sweden or France, Pardon me. Which one of those civilized countries would allow me the liberty of open firearm ownership?
NV
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Abortion: A Republican Plot to Thin the Liberal Herd. | |
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| | GlobalMindDomino Dude, POWER Systems GuyPremium
join:2001-10-29
Hollywood, FL | Riiiight. Hey Rebellious if you mean to reply to the thread then use Reply OP.
Otherwise your response makes no sense in terms of my post. | |
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