  nklbPremium
join:2000-11-17
Ann Arbor, MI
kudos:2 | Not detected My vote is that it was not detected because the AV companies don't have access to it to create the definitions.
The FBI is not exactly interested in showing everyone what their secret programs executables are.
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for all your Linux questions | |
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 | | | Re: Not detected I wonder if any other foreign governments are doing the same, creating as of yet unknown malware, to penetrate our Networks....  | |
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| | | | Re: Not detected Or worse...creating zombies that could be activated to take down our computer infrastructure in a terrorist attack.
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean someone isn't out to get you. | |
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| | | | said by Agent_haito:I wonder if any other foreign governments are doing the same, creating as of yet unknown malware, to penetrate our Networks.... Im sure the leaders of the world are interested in how much pron you download...  | |
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| | |  wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | Re: Not detected said by NewMariner:said by Agent_haito:I wonder if any other foreign governments are doing the same, creating as of yet unknown malware, to penetrate our Networks.... Im sure the leaders of the world are interested in how much pron you download... I hope you do realize this (foreign governments/terrorists creating undetectable malware) has absolutely nothing to do with "pron", and truly could have far reaching national security ramifications. Some people really think everything is a joke........
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я люблю Денди! | |
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| | | |  peter_mPremium
join:2005-07-13
Canada, QC | Re: Not detected I just want to have my PC back! | |
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| | RayWPremium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
kudos:1 | said by Agent_haito:I wonder if any other foreign governments are doing the same, creating as of yet unknown malware, to penetrate our Networks.... Too late, China has already been doing that and it took the Feds until about a year ago to discover it. At least that was when all of a sudden a lot of restrictions were placed on what we can do with and to our desktops and accounts, and SURPRISE, a lot of technical resources disappeared since they are in blocked Asian IP's.
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
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| | |  scrummie02BentleyPremium
join:2004-04-16
Arlington, VA
 ·Comcast
| Re: Not detected meh...not concerned.
We've been doing that a lot longer than they have. Not to mention a good majority of their stuff is American made.
People seem to think China has the upper hand on us...they don't. Except for man-power, they aren't even close militarily, technologically and they lack innovation.
At this point I'd me more worried about terrorist cells, they are harder to track and a surprising number are actually educated here or the UK.
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"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. " - Thomas Jefferson | |
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| | | | RayWPremium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
kudos:1 | Re: Not detected I read a sci-fi short story back in the 70's or 80's that talked about how a couple of terrorist cells smuggled pieces of a pocket nuke into several US cities and then set them off, triggering a nuclear exchange between USSR and USA. The story was written as a top secret report on that piece of history, and the last paragraph (as I recall) ended with the revelation that China was now the top dog, and had instigated that action. That was before anyone really thought that China had anything going for it.
I think that China has more ability than most people think they do, it is just the fact that they have much more people at a lower 'standard' than the 'West' causes many to think the entire country is that way. And yes, you are probably right about innovation, the information available implies that the penetration of our systems was a result of some of Microsoft's trade deals with China and the MS Windows internal information that they got and the ability to find more of the hidden 'features' that most of us consider holes or bugs in the Microsoft software.
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
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| | | | | | That attitude is one of the things I think is "wrong with this (USA) country..."
"Everybody" is so busy pushing their finger into the air shouting, "We're number one, we're number one"... the rest of the world is quickly catching up/passing us by.
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There are 10 types of people in the world; those who understand binary and those who don't. | |
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| | | | | scrummie02BentleyPremium
join:2004-04-16
Arlington, VA Reviews:
·Comcast
| Re: Not detected It's not a problem. The Chinese aren't as technological as you think. Ones that are work here with us because it's a better standard of living. They can't innovate. most if not all of their advances are copies of our stuff or actually American goods (with a small amount copied from the Russians). That's a fact.
I'd still be more worried about Jihadist who are winning the propaganda war against us by using our own technology.
That's not nationalism, it's the way it is.
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"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. " - Thomas Jefferson | |
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|  swhx7Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia
1 edit | It appears only in the relatively rare cases of investigations, and is undoubtedly different from any private-sector spyware.
Even if the security-software vendors did have samples, they probably wouldn't build detection into their products. There's a thread about this issue: »Whitelisting keyloggers for law enforcement
It would become possible to detect it if they started using it more widely, because sooner or later they'd target someone who would be astute enough to detect it and would share the info. | |
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| | | Read between Lines: 'The FBI used the spyware after it had obtained server logs from Google and MySpace, which gave them an IP address that led to an infected computer in Italy'
Google and MySpace become the 'major suspect's...
BTW, Google prohibits Anonymous Use of its search engine starting couples of months ago... | |
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| | swhx7Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia | Re: Not detected said by Anon users :
BTW, Google prohibits Anonymous Use of its search engine starting couples of months ago...
What do you mean by this? They've started presenting a CAPTCHA if a query appears to come from a script, but as long as you're a person using a browser you don't have to give anything more than your IP address and HTTP headers. | |
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|  Lil JonPremium
join:2006-06-26
Cincinnati, OH | said by nklb:My vote is that it was not detected because the AV companies don't have access to it to create the definitions. The FBI is not exactly interested in showing everyone what their secret programs executables are. co-sign
interesting stuff | |
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 RaptorNot a Dumptruck
join:2001-10-21
London, ON | Time for... ... Google to offer an AV suite that doesn't bow to the Empire.
Speaking in ignorance, this is actually a good tool that could really be useful for security officials.
Speaking in reality, a little scary, and more than likely excessively non-trustworthy in the hands of aforementioned security officials.
And if someone gives the "if you have nothing to hide then who cares" argument....well, that is so not the point.
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....where's my fiber? | |
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|  pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Re: Time for... said by Raptor:And if someone gives the "if you have nothing to hide then who cares" argument....well, that is so not the point. Where is the evidence that the FBI has been using this software on innocent peoples' computers? The only person so far implicated is someone who was planning to bomb a school. I would dare say the FBI was right to take this approach, lest we have another school attack.
My gut feeling is that the FBI probably tricked this guy into installing this software as part of some sort of "legitimate-looking" application. As such, it would probably get past any sort of AV or spyware filtering program.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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| | | | Re: Time for... said by pnh102: The only person so far implicated is someone who was planning to bomb a school. So far.
This is how it always begins. | |
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| | | pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Re: Time for... So what should we do then? Disallow law enforcement from using such tactics to catch real criminals because of the possibility that these tactics may be abused?
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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| | | |  morboComplete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000 | Re: Time for... no. checks and balances. they have the SUPER SECRET SECRET COURTS to get warrants to do shit that is so secret not even a regular judge can know about it.
something that the current administration doesn't believe in. | |
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| | | | | pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
1 edit | Re: Time for... If it is so secret then how do we know about it?
said by morbo:something that the current administration doesn't believe in. *Cough*Carnivore*Cough*
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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| | | | |  ChucklesPremium
join:2006-03-04
Saint Paul, MN | | |
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| | | |  dks7
join:2004-05-31
Omak, WA | I'd rather live in a less safe world than allow FBI to use things like this. Some danger in life makes life worth living, the human population has exceeded 6 and a half billion people, we could stand to have a few die ya know. | |
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| | | | | | | Re: Time for... then you have something to hide. I have no problem with this, let them look at my computer, no big deal. If you are not doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about
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I bitch. People listen!! | |
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| | | | | |  elboricuaEl SubestimadoPremium
join:2001-08-12
Bronx, NY | Re: Time for... said by Squirrelly:then you have something to hide. I have no problem with this, let them look at my computer, no big deal. If you are not doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about There is so much wrong with that statement..... I worry about the future of this country. I have nothing to hide either, but I still don't want anyone having unauthorized, unfettered, unchecked access to my computer. Much less the government.
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My Blog | Sending script kiddies to /dev/null since 1995! | |
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| | | | | |  jjoshuaPremium
join:2001-06-01
Scotch Plains, NJ
kudos:1 | said by Squirrelly:then you have something to hide. I have no problem with this, let them look at my computer, no big deal. If you are not doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about Troll. | |
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| | | | | | | quatrixPremium
join:2005-02-11
Davie, FL
kudos:2 | Re: Time for... Troll troll. | |
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| | | | | | Timmn
join:2000-04-23
Tinley Park, IL Reviews:
 ·AT&T Yahoo
·CYBERONIC INTERN..
| How do you know that you are not doing anything wrong?
Frankly, I think I would rather have a criminal looking into my computer rather than the government.
All a criminal will do is try to steal my identity and drain my bank accounts. Who knows what the government would do with that information. | |
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Time for... "All a criminal will do is try to steal my identity and drain my bank accounts. Who knows what the government would do with that information."
The government is the one who provides you with an identity (SSN) and they already know your bank account information (IRS). | |
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| | | | | | | | Perhaps you will let me post some cameras around your house, too? After all, you might be making a bomb, or maybe an apple pie. We're also going to install tracking devices in your vehicles and on your person. We need to make sure you're not visiting any areas that might have potential terrorist activity, after all. You don't need any privacy, right? I mean, you said that you have nothing to hide, so we might as all know about everything that you do.
Just leave all of your keys in a box outside your door. We'll be around to remove the locks on everything shortly.
- frizz0. | |
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| | | | | | | | said by Squirrelly:then you have something to hide. Everybody has something to hide. We're all guilty of something if you look hard enough. | |
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| | | | | |  RARPSL
join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY | said by Squirrelly:then you have something to hide. I have no problem with this, let them look at my computer, no big deal. If you are not doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about Bovine Excrement - If they can plant this virus on your machine, they can plant "evidence" of wrong doing there to justify persecuting you just because you appear on an "Enemies" list. The FBI has done this in the past during the Hoover era so there is precedence for this type of misbehavior. | |
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| | | | | |  Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
join:2002-03-03
USA
kudos:4 | said by Squirrelly:then you have something to hide. I have no problem with this, let them look at my computer, no big deal. If you are not doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about Those worried about the FBI are USUALLY doing something to be worried about. And that typically is uploading copyrighted movies and music. They don't like the law and they don't want to get caught.
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Internet News
My BLOG
My Web Page | |
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| | | | | | |  ThalerPremium
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:3
·DSL EXTREME
| Re: Time for... said by Romney2012:Those worried about the FBI are USUALLY doing something to be worried about. And that means what exactly? There are plenty of people (me included) that have big issues with *anyone* invading our home - best intentions or otherwise.
Thank God hospitals don't follow that train of logic. Just give everyone the same treatment, and expect that everyone USUALLY isn't allergic to the medications. | |
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| | | | | | | | “Contemplate the mangled bodies of your countrymen, and then say 'what should be the reward of such sacrifices?' Bid us and our posterity bow the knee, supplicate the friendship and plough, and sow, and reap, to glut the avarice of the men who have let loose on us the dogs of war to riot in our blood and hunt us from the face of the earth? If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!
Samuel Adams Founding forefather
Nuff Said | |
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| | | | | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | This country has the highest per capita level of people in jail and prison over any other country and we are the land of the free.
Anymore, today, all we want to do is find something wrong with someone and lock them up. It's getting out of hand.
What if you were gay and the republicans somehow got laws passed that made gay sex against the law. Clearly a violation of civil rights. They found something your computer that had always been there or they found out you were gay and having sex and they showed up to your door to arrest you?
What if a law was passed stating you had to administer ALL immunizations to your kids and you didn't want certain ones given? They got in your computer and saw a letter you wrote to an editor where you quoted yourself stating you did not and will not have your daughter immunized from the new HPV vac? Would you want child protection at your front door?
Shall I go on?
If you want to give up to the government, that's certainly your choice... but most of us will certainly continue to fight to disallow this kind of activity.
Saying you don't want your basic rights violated is having something to hide is simply absurd and a pretty bad attitude to have towards this whole thing.
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"Complaining is the least path of resistance for the self-serving, the lazy, and I’m told it’s a woman’s prerogative..." | |
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Time for... Hmm actually I believe the act of gay sex IS still illegal in many places in the states. Amazing how the prosecution of this is so rampant.......I mean so much so that you didn't have the thought that it might already be illegal......
No, I have nothing against gay sex. Yes most of the places where this is still law, is because its an old law that nobody has changed. My point is that just because the government has a power doesn't automatically mean it will be abused more than is acceptable to society as a whole. Yes I said acceptable. There ARE cases of government abuse of power. None of them are right, but its going to happen. The key is to keep it as low as possible. Obviously we as a society accept this or else life would be alot different than it is as we know it.
BTW it does work both ways. Piracy IS illegal (and IMO wrong), but it happens. Some try to stop it and some try to promote it but it is accepted by society as a whole the way it is right now. If not things would be different. | |
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| | | | | | | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | Re: Time for... The ban on sodomy (ala Gay Sex) was ruled unconstitutional a few years back by the U.S. Supreme Court based on a case out of Texas.
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"Complaining is the least path of resistance for the self-serving, the lazy, and I’m told it’s a woman’s prerogative..." | |
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| | | | | | | | said by Squirrelly:then you have something to hide. I have no problem with this, let them look at my computer, no big deal. If you are not doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about ok, why don't you scan your last bank and credit card statement and post it online uncensored. You can use imageshack.us for hosting it.
We know people don't abuse information, doesn't employed by govt or civilian org.
I'm betting you won't put your money where your mouth is. | |
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| | | | | pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | said by dks7:I'd rather live in a less safe world than allow FBI to use things like this. So when 9/11 happened, you weren't clamoring at all for the government to try to do something to prevent it from happening? If God-forbid another such attack occurs, you won't be angry at the government for not doing everything it could have to try to prevent the attack?
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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| | | | | | elboricuaEl SubestimadoPremium
join:2001-08-12
Bronx, NY | Re: Time for... News flash.... with the protocols that were current at the time the government had word of 9/11 months before it happened and mis / lack of communication between agencies was the root cause. There was no need for the Patriot Act. People immediately kowtowed to whatever the government wanted.
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My Blog | Sending script kiddies to /dev/null since 1995! | |
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| | | | | | | pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Re: Time for... said by elboricua:... before it happened and mis / lack of communication between agencies was the root cause. There was no need for the Patriot Act. That is not exactly the case.
Prior to the Patriot Act, it was a standing policy at the Justice Department that law enforcement and intelligence agencies could not communicate with each other. One of the things the Patriot Act did was make it illegal for the administration to ever erect such a boundary between law enforcement and intelligence agencies ever again. I do have issues with other aspects of the Patriot Act, with regards to allowing the sharing of information between law enforcement and intelligence agencies, the Act is right on the mark.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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| | | | | Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
join:2002-03-03
USA
kudos:4 | said by dks7:I'd rather live in a less safe world than allow FBI to use things like this. Some danger in life makes life worth living, the human population has exceeded 6 and a half billion people, we could stand to have a few die ya know. Are you volunteering?
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Internet News
My BLOG
My Web Page | |
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| | | | | | said by pnh102:So what should we do then? Disallow law enforcement from using such tactics to catch real criminals because of the possibility that these tactics may be abused? Oh..I don't know.. Go to a judge and say, "Judge we have a suspect in the bomb case, we need to have a search warrant and confiscate his computer records."
Was there a warrant to allow them to ummm..install this software on a computer without the owners knowledge?
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"There are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots" | |
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| | | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | Yup! They should be!
There would be an easy way around this, but the greed of government in it's effort to be a perfect society, er, I mean, in order to jail as many people and make money at the same time, can't!
If they use information or a method for a specific intent and find other acts of crime or something unrelated, they should NOT be allowed to use it. PERIOD. They can't have it all.
The patriot act wouldn't be a problem if they applied this method to that. IE: If you are a U.S. Citizen and the Patriot act is used against you for some other reason other than it's intent (ie: terror surveying) then any evidence gathered using the patriot act should be thrown around.
Dude, we have a rule of law. They need to live in it just like we do.
Law enforcement is not exempt from abiding by cybercrime laws... sorry.. no free pass for Johnny Law and Uncle Sam.
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"Complaining is the least path of resistance for the self-serving, the lazy, and I’m told it’s a woman’s prerogative..." | |
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| |  Jim GurdPremium
join:2000-07-08
Plymouth, MI | said by pnh102:My gut feeling is that the FBI probably tricked this guy into installing this software as part of some sort of "legitimate-looking" application. Social engineering gets my vote as well. An anti-virus program with good heuristics might catch it though. | |
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| | RaptorNot a Dumptruck
join:2001-10-21
London, ON | Man alive. Surely you can't still be blindly faithful to your government security officials? Have you been paying attention for the past 6 years? Shall I list how they've crapped on and wiped their asses with your precious bill of rights?
On the bright side, since you appear to speak highly of their methods, you can take satisfaction that while they listen into your calls/emails/etc they're able to take your compliments to heart! 
said by pnh102: The only person so far implicated is someone who was planning to bomb a school. I would dare say the FBI was right to take this approach, lest we have another school attack. As I said, I'm not against the ideal usage of this tool, and it's fantastic in this instance. But who signed off on the usage to target this individual? While likely acceptable since they no doubt learned of the bomb plot, when these "warrants" or whatever they are pass through, are they behind closed doors? What's to stop them from pushing this technology on anyone on a whim?
Most men start out with good intentions...
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....where's my fiber? | |
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| | swhx7Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia
1 edit | It's true that most users are unsophisticated enough to be tricked into installing something. From the FBI's point of view, however, this method has the risk that if the subject is too smart to fall for it, he may then be alerted to the possibility of being spied on and be more careful, use encryption, etc..
In the case a few years ago (Scarfo?), the FBI broke into the house and installed the spyware with physical access to the computer. This would be more reliable and less likely to be detected. The agency resorted to it because the suspect was using encryption, so intercepting his communications wasn't working.
A third possibility would be exploiting some software defect to install the spyware remotely without relying on human engineering. This would require hacking skills which are probably scarce even in the FBI.
A fourth possibility is cooperation from a maker of software that does automatic updates or acts as an internet server.
The above is regarding the general question of law enforcement using spyware. In the case the news article is about, it was probably simpler - see Raydr's post below.
My point in listing the possible methods is that if government agencies started using spyware more extensively - outside of legitimate investigations - then (a) smart computer users could avoid it and (b) samples would soon be captured and analysed. | |
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| | | pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Re: Time for... said by swhx7:In the case a few years ago (Scarfo?) ... Interesting you mention this. Law enforcement has been using bugging devices to catch criminals for decades now. This sort of approach is just a technological update of an old trick.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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| | |  MrMoodyFree range slavePremium
join:2002-09-03
Smithfield, NC | said by swhx7:A fourth possibility is cooperation from a maker of software that does automatic updates or acts as an internet server. It would be "insanely easy" for Micro$oft to put a gubmint back door in Windows Update, and would be very tough to find if it's there.
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| | | SylphFiPremium
join:2007-06-07
Moses Lake, WA | Your fourth possibility is already happening. Look up the CALEA Act. As of May (14th I think), all broadband ISP's, have to (upon presentation of a court order) forward all traffic to and from a specific IP address to the signified Law Enforcement Agency. Basically, computer wiretapping. | |
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| | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | pnh... I can't believe you even said what you just said. The evidence is right there in front of your own nose to show they used the software on an innocent person's computer.
In the eyes of the law in this country, "you are innocent UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY" and unless the FBI is now absolute in power, the courts are invalidated, and people no longer have the right to stand before a court to answer to "charges" then you are innocent no matter how you try to spin this.
I want law enforcement in this country... absolutely! But, I want them to work with in the confides of the law itself. We are a nation of laws and even the government must be lawful as well.
To be honest, I don't care if they did stop a school bombing. Those at the FBI level who took part in this operation should all stand before a judge and face their punishment.
We are no longer a free nation when this type of behavior is tolerated. This was computer hacking at it's best. the very agency that puts hackers and virus authors in jail/prison is them self doing the same thing.
Government law enforcement agencies LOVE to abuse their powers in the name of thwarting a potentially dangerous crime. However, the shoot first, sort it out, and ask questions later, Dirty Harry kind of justice simply won't be tolerated in this country and shouldn't.
This is going to infuriate some people here, but I'd rather have the school bombing over the government violating the law. There are other ways to address these problems that potentially can happen that affect public safety, but taking the lazy way isn't going to work.
If the FBI wants to do this kind of stuff, they, like ANYONE ELSE, can try to change the laws.
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"Complaining is the least path of resistance for the self-serving, the lazy, and I’m told it’s a woman’s prerogative..." | |
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|  PlaceboPremium
join:2005-12-14
Huntley, IL | said by Raptor:... Time for Google to offer an AV suite that doesn't bow to the Empire. Google sure bowed to the Chinese empire!
Amazing--Google can do no wrong!
Excuse my while I go puke.
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Who wants an orange whip? Orange whip? Orange whip? Three orange whips. | |
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|  NyQuil Kid8f The Nyquil Kid
join:2001-01-06
Brick, NJ
1 edit | Ahh let's not forget that it was used to stop a bombing attempt - or is the theoretical more important then fact that lives were saved? No doubt those calling for the heads of the FBI would be singing a different tune if it was THEIR kids/friends/etc at risk from a bomb and learned the FBI didn't use every means to stop it. Hypocrisy at its best definition often finds a home on these BBR forums.
[8F] The NyQuil Kid
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[8F] The NyQuil Kid comes into town not looking for trouble...
n00bz gang up, but he ain't seein' double,...
pulls and draws, his deagles two...
n00bz litter the ground you know it's true. | |
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| | | said by Raptor:... Google to offer an AV suite that doesn't bow to the Empire. Isn't google itself the empire now?
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Get Verizon FIOS,The Anti-DIOS | |
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RaydrPremium,MVM
join:2000-11-19
Carrollton, TX
1 edit | How they did it? I've read all of the articles and there seems to be a lot of people asking "how did they do it?" and "how does a PC in Italy point to a kid in Washington?".
We, by nature, tend to over complicate things when it could have been as simple as this:
1.) We know the kid used an infected PC in Italy to create and maintain this MySpace profile.
2.) MySpace and Google provided the IP of the machine.
3.) The FBI simply connected to infected machine in Italy which was probably wide open, and installed their own spyware. Being that this machine was already compromised, we can assume it did not have a firewall or antivirus/antispyware. Now...:
After CIPAV is installed, the FBI said, it will immediately report back to the government the computer's Internet Protocol address, Ethernet MAC address, "other variables, and certain registry-type information." And then, for the next 60 days, it will record Internet Protocol addresses visited but not the contents of the communications.
So, basically, now the FBI can see what IP addresses this computer is communicating with - namely, they can see the IP address of the computer initiating a remote connection to this infected Italy machine.
4.) Viola, you have your offender.
Simply put, I wouldn't be so fast to give the FBI that much credit. | |
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| | | Re: How they did it? Maybe so, but legally speaking, you can be it would be a whole lot more complicated to break in to the computer of an uninvolved (in the sense that the owner of the compromised computer probably didn't know about the hack) person in a foregin country than bugging the computer, in the USA, directly owned by the suspect. | |
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| | | Not so fast. The perp stopped using the Italian computer by the time FBI got to it.
Also, Fedware also extracted and transmitted certain 'registry information' from the perp's computer. His system was infected with an executable. | |
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| | | | Re: How they did it? Just look at the trojan that is already on the infected Italian machine, and see where it phones home. Voila! That's pretty easy. | |
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 ColorBASIC8-bit FunPremium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
3 edits | Who said the kid was even running AV SW and what brand? I haven't seen any indication that the 'perp' was using AV software at all. It's all guessing.
I wonder if advanced heuristics fuctions of some of these AV products like NOD32 would have been able to detect it since it's claimed there aren't any defs for it. | |
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 rloconeHonor Our Heros, Our Armed ForcesPremium
join:2002-04-10
Kokomo, IN | Encrpytion is the key. I just wish there was a way to encrypted your connection completely. If I had the money I'd open an encrypted isp. That is half the battle the next thing is to keep the crap out of our system and networks. Untangle firewall does a good job of keeping junk out of your network.
Anyone watch Diehard 4 yet? You never know these days what foreign countries can do. What if a rogue country arranges or employs hackers to do the job? This poor country doesn't have a clue. | |
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| | | Re: Encrpytion is the key. You can encrypt the hell out of your connection and your network all you want. But you can't control your connection to every router, every server, and every application. | |
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| | | said by rlocone:Anyone watch Diehard 4 yet? You never know these days what foreign countries can do. Anyone watch Starship Troopers yet? You never know these days what giant flesh-eating alien insects can do.
Pssst.
It was a movie. (NOT REAL)
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Burrow owl...burrow owl... | |
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| | rloconeHonor Our Heros, Our Armed ForcesPremium
join:2002-04-10
Kokomo, IN | Re: Encrpytion is the key. Our wonderful government introduces us to these situations indirectly through movies and entertainment.
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blob
join:2006-02-10
Canada | blaa ... whatever... if that did happen - say FBI (or other 5-headed organization) was whitelisted by some AV company, then just blame one thing for this: patriot act
FBI, CIA, NSA (and who knows whatever else!)... all the same crap under the "patriot act" rules. Either one or all of them can circumvent written law, court proceedings, application of justice... what does that give people, how does that serve people, how does that protect people? didley - squat!
Say what you will, but this "patriot act" gives higher "policing authorities" way too much leeway in doing whatever the hell they want - all under the all so powerful moniker: "it's to keep the country safe from terrorism"!! Horsepucks!
... patriot act... pfff ... more like sedition act | |
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 Titus PulloI came, I saw, I slept
join:2004-06-26
kudos:1
·Embarq Now Centu..
| I'm surprised the doughnuteatertech division found time in between visits to freefu**ingmovies and milf dot com to monitor whatever crapware they foisted on some kid making stupid threats --if they even did. A more likely scenario is someone turned the kid in while the doughnuteatertech division were arguing over who changed the screen saver password on the lead doughnuteatertech's PC (and how best to fix it). On the flip side, all those worried should have at least two of these: »huntersdirect.dealerease.net/cat···id=34452
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The woman from 1984 put down her hammer for an iMac®, iPod® & iPhone® | |
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| | Hang the scum About time the feds get what they need to prosecute the SCUM that perpetuates society. | |
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3 edits | Re: Hang the scum said by AboutTime :
About time the feds get what they need to prosecute the SCUM that perpetuates society.
Whoa there, partner, you are among the so-called "SCUM who perpetuate society" if you live within the society, have procreated and/or abided by the laws of the society. So be careful, chum.
BTW, it is the FBI's newly granted authority to attack everyone "who perpetuates society", rather than just criminal elements within society, that has everyone upset. The wholesale, and likely unconstitutional, monitoring of all citizens is the problem... | |
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| | FBI spyware The problem is that once government spying becomes easy they will do it all the time and for no good reason. Spying will change from a tool to find the guilty to one that corrals the innocent. If spying is too easy it will get overused.
While I'm hoping that this will spell the death knell of any antivirus that cooperates I don't think detection will matter. The funding that the FBI has allows them to never send the same bug twice.
AV companies won't be interested in detecting spyware infestations of one computer. The spyware will probably be well written and not spread so it's hard to detect and it will delete itself, either automatically or after the FBI captures you and your computer. No deals needed and difficult enough that they won't target everyone just because they can. | |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | very easy Pretty easy, each AV makers gets a "National Security Letter" from FBI. End of story, end of trail. | |
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| Reviews:
 ·Verizon FiOS
| Re: very easy It doesn't work that way. Perhaps in a time of crisis the government may ask for help from security companies, but your little copy of Norton AntiVirus won't have any "government back door". And to proof is so easy...
If it ever, ever, had anything like that and it leaked out (which is inevitable) the company would go bust.
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»www.fairtax.org | |
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|  JammerMan79Premium,VIP
join:2004-05-13
Prince George, BC
kudos:10 | UH.... an NSA letter means nothing if you're not in the US | |
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| | Microsoft knows They get special deals with the government.
Only makes sense. | |
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axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
1 edit | every tool can be used for good or evil I'm sure we all know of a few people that would use this program to spy on or stalk women. It's human nature that some people will be like this. Combine that with that fact that FBI and police have all kinds of personalities, and it is a statistical certainty that some FBI and police agents will want to use this program to spy on or stalk women.
Just because a tool can be used for evil doesn't mean it should be banned, but there needs to be some review whenever it is used. Just as there is paperwork and review when weapons are discharged, there should be similar for use of tools like this. And a search warrant when personal documents are searched, of course.
FBI are not invulnerable to computer hacking or infiltration, it's probably only a matter of time before this program falls into the wrong hands and must be protected against. I wonder if they have defenses against their own program? If it exists, of course  | |
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| | Gov spyware, guess I will let them do what they want.. Personally I see it this way, evey day I look at the US and whats going on I see all of your "Freedom" becoming a small little box. Its like well your free to do this or that but.. oh wait no sorry not that because its dangerous or you may hurt someone... not that we have anything against you, but so and so did this last week and well we dont want that to repeat... Is it a crime to play with gunpowder and make home made bombs to set off out in the middle of know where for sheer fun factor and to see what would happen? As a kid me and a bunch of friends use to sneak powder to make all sorts of neat explosive things which I agree was pretty dumb and lucky we didnt get hurt. But needless to say we did not use it for anything other then fun. Now days the gov holds your hand for everthing telling you what you can and cant do, hows that freedom... like the guy said above just wait 2008 chipped cards / lic... oh we are protectiong you from identity theft... ps. honestly we arent really watching you. I laugh at that concept. Hell ya its all monitored... what you are consumming in the world, what you buy etc. Stores do it all the time, why wouldnt the goverment? | |
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approval from:
travisz 
| Every computer with networking... has a backdoor. Every OS has a way in. It wouldn't be allowed if it didn't.
Once that computer is alive or awake and on the net, it's a target. Spoof all you want, run and hide. We'll find you. Time is all we need. | |
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 ctceoPremium
join:2001-04-26
South Bend, IN | So naieve I thought the government wouldn't waste time doing this?
And what happened to all his encryption, I thought it wasn't possible for them to get his info because of this new fangled 256bit DES stuff. | |
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 M A R SPremium
join:2001-06-15
Long Island |  Linux, OSX???
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Neturei Karta | |
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| ctceoPremium
join:2001-04-26
South Bend, IN
1 edit | Re: Linux, OSX??? It's all about near On the fly decryption, and parallel line monitoring (sometimes done through OS mirroring. They also gathered some easily accessible stuff by accessing his IP's google/myspace searches to paint the rest of the picture. | |
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| |  gatorkramKaBOOM BabyPremium
join:2002-07-22
Winterville, NC
kudos:2
·Suddenlink
| Legal today, but not tomorrow? The way things are going in this country...
You might not think you have anything to hide today, but who knows what laws will pass tomorrow..
Just because it isn't a crime this year, doesn't mean they won't pass some stupid law in 20 years, and make it retroactive back to the beginning of time.
The things you think of today, and dream of tonight, might put you in prison tomorrow, beware the thought police...
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Give me bandwidth or give me death! | |
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| M A R SPremium
join:2001-06-15
Long Island | Its time to just talk to people face to face again
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Neturei Karta | |
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 AnnaS8
join:2005-05-26
Annapolis, MD | Stop drinking the red cool aid... I am sick of the arguments of "if you aren't doing anything wrong" or "only the people who are worried about this are media pirates" and "you want 9/11 to happen again". No I have nothing to hide. No I pay for all my CDs and DVDs. Also I most certainly don't want 9/11 to happen again. I lost some close friends in that mess. The funny thing is the people who are saying "if you aren't doing anything wrong" are assuming that the the government isn't doing anything wrong. I would like to think that isn't the case and in a perfect world it would be. To bad we aren't in the world. I don't have a problem with them using this software to track down the kid who planned to blow up the school. If...they went through the proper legal steps. My worry is when it gets abused.
What already worries me is how an administration can think nothing of outing a CIA operative. They put that operative and her co-workers in danger. Which in any other time would be a serious offense. All because someone stood up against them against what they said to be true. What else worries me is that they can fire anyone they want for not playing ball with them. You aren't even safe if you are a member of their party. For just those reasons alone I think it is important for checks and balances to remain in place.
Now as far as the kid goes...We are assuming he had any scanners on his PC or that he even used them or kept them up to date. Hell they could have just sent him the usual "click here for a free xbox" email and that installed whatever they needed to once he clicked on it. | |
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|  cline3621Mr. Yuk is MEAN Mr. Yuk is GREENPremium
join:2006-06-14
Clarksville, TN
·CDE
| Kool Aid This nice elderly gentleman loves serving up the Kool Aid. | |
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| | ctceoPremium
join:2001-04-26
South Bend, IN | Re: Kool Aid I think that's the stuff they served up at the last Quickstar Revival in my area, the one I lost a good friend too.
Alas he has succumbed to their powers of Mind-Washing. | |
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| | | Re: Stop drinking the red cool aid... said by AnnaS8:What already worries me is how an administration can think nothing of outing a CIA operative. They put that operative and her co-workers in danger. Which in any other time would be a serious offense. All because someone stood up against them against what they said to be true if u or me outed the cia agents name we would get the death penalty for treason. no questions asked. but for committin treason nobody in the goverment is held accountable. all these goverment stooges need to do is claim "were protected by the patriot act". patriot act blah blah blah. shit the nsa already monitors every phone call made. yes they even record phone sex convos lol | |
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 atuarreHere come the drumsPremium
join:2004-02-14
College Station, TX | Bleh There will always be who will say something like, "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about".
It is a well known fact that people cannot control themselves when they get a taste of power. They eventually abuse it to further their own agenda.
You say the government should have the power to do what they like, when they like, and how they like now, until it gets to the point where everything you say is now censored, for instance, if you don't agree with something the President does, and you speak out about it, you will be fined, or worse, taken away from your family. God forbid they start making everyone carry a card, or a wafer with some sort of new tracking technology, and setup a division with the sole person of tracking every American citizen on the face of the planet. They will eventually plan your meals, and tell you what food you can and cannot consume. When overpopulation becomes a burden, they will start planning when you can and cannot have children. Some people might accept this type of life, but there are some of us who do not.
You might be perfectly content with giving away your freedom, but the more leeway you give them, the more they will take.
This is why we have a system of checks and balances. To prevent one person, or a specific group of people from establishing or centralizing power. The current administration has eroded most of these checks and balances.
In this instance, where the FBI installed Spyware, there should have been protocols and paper work authorizing, or requesting authorization to carry this out. It all starts out with little things, and eventually, in the name of safety, and security, it goes to an extreme.
People die, and life goes on. Terrorist attacks happened on U.S. before 9/11, and I do not doubt that they will continue to happen afterwards. That is the world we live in. It's a fact of life. The best we can do is to try and prevent the terrorists from bringing the battle here, but we should not be giving up our freedoms and rights so quickly, or easily.
If America stays the course that it is on, and continues to proceed on this path, I see camera's in every street corner, in every house, everywhere. Monitoring devices that allow you to be tracked at all times, and your conversations to be monitored, without notification. There will be time restrictions put in place, telling you when and where you can be, otherwise you should be in your home. You should be sleeping between these hours. You should only eat what we tell you to eat. Etc. Etc.
I am glad they caught this person, but this just goes to further show that as American citizens, our rights are being limited in the name of national security, and when you really think about it, and read all the studies about how Al Quaida is just as efficient and effective as they were before 9/11, it makes you wonder just how safe we are, and what the administration has really been up to. | |
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| ChucklesPremium
join:2006-03-04
Saint Paul, MN | Re: Bleh But we're sheep now. We can't stand not having a shepherd to lead the flock.
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kustomerservice.net | |
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| | More details According to ZDNet
»news.zdnet.com/2100-1009_22-6197405.html
"Federal agents obtained a court order on June 12 to send spyware called CIPAV to a MySpace account suspected of being used by the bomb threat hoaxster. Once implanted, the software was designed to report back to the FBI with the Internet Protocol address of the suspect's computer, other information found on the PC and, notably, an ongoing log of the user's outbound connections."
Hoover's dead so I'm not all that worried about the bureau abusing and using this tool without proper judicial oversight. | |
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Reviews:
·Windstream
| The bigger picture... It is my understanding that the info about 9/11 was only foreknown in the fact that certain low level FBI agents had noticed that middle eastern men were seeking to learn to fly planes without the need to takeoff or land. Those agents passed the information up the chain of command and someone, somewhere, sat on it.
The one thing that is clear to me is that if all of the people in this thread were FBI agents, some of them would pass that information on and some of them would sit on it. I'll let you sort yourselves out.
I salute the use of this spyware by the FBI to thwart this bomb plot. I wish it had been used before Columbine and all the other school shootings. I certainly applaud all of the articulate efforts of some of you to defend the sensible use of this tool in the right situation.
And now to my point...
I wish they would use this software to catch all those who produce and traffic in child porn and child molestation. All such monsters have to use an ISP somewhere to do what they do. Some of those ISPs know about it surely. Apparently all of them are sitting on that information.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. If the ISPs don't turn over that information then the government will have to come and get it. If that process has begun then it's no one's fault but the ISPs.
When they busted that huge child porn ring in England I heard that they not only found child porn but some of the children that were being forced to make it.
We in this internet galaxy can deal with these sorts of problems ourselves, in our own way, in our own time, as surgically as we feel we must. Do we really want the bull to come swaggering into our china shop? I think not. The choice is ours. Don't complain if you sit on your hands and your world comes crashing down.
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You're an American. You get a free pass, but nobody rides for free. | |
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