  pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD |  FCC Behind the Curve Again
Forcing landline phone companies to provide a service below cost will simply result in more companies simply wanting to abandon the technology.
<rant>
Of course none of this negates the very real damage the government has done to the telecom customer over the past 2 decades by allowing just about every mega-merger and consolidation to go through with no strings attached. Having more providers out there would definitely help as well.
</rant>
--
"Net Neutrality" zealots - the people you can thank for your capped Internet service. | |
|
 | |
| | | | Re: FCC Behind the Curve Again said by David:said by pnh102:The end user has already decided the fate of PSTN. For those people who want to continue using landline phones, the best thing the government can do is end the pricing regulation and allow for the price of these services to rise to the levels needed to maintain them.
Forcing landline phone companies to provide a service below cost will simply result in more companies simply wanting to abandon the technology.
Pretty much on point as long as end users are "cutting the cord". AT&T's arguments will be valid. I don't know hardly anyone anymore that has a POTS line except me, and that trend is changing this year. I'm confused... what do you use instead? | |
|
| | | |
|  jslikThat just happenedPremium
join:2006-03-17 | said by pnh102:For those people who want to continue using landline phones, the best thing the government can do is end the pricing regulation and allow for the price of these services to rise to the levels needed to maintain them.
That makes sense for those who have a choice. Several of my relatives in rural areas don't have that luxury, although your mini-rant regarding the lack of competition is spot on.
--
If they told you wolverines make good house pets, would you believe them? | |
|
| | pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Re: FCC Behind the Curve Again said by jslik:That makes sense for those who have a choice. Several of my relatives in rural areas don't have that luxury, although your mini-rant regarding the lack of competition is spot on.
I think we're already seeing manifestations of this problem with Verizon and other major carriers dumping their rural networks onto companies which can't keep them running. I think if these companies were allowed to raise rates on their basic service, you'd see more maintenance being done to keep these services running.
--
"Net Neutrality" zealots - the people you can thank for your capped Internet service. | |
|
| | | jslikThat just happenedPremium
join:2006-03-17 | Re: FCC Behind the Curve Again said by pnh102:I think if these companies were allowed to raise rates on their basic service, you'd see more maintenance being done to keep these services running.
I thought maintenance support in rural areas was the one of the intended reasons behind the USF... 
--
If they told you wolverines make good house pets, would you believe them? | |
|
|  Dude111An Awesome DudePremium
join:2003-08-04
USA
kudos:10
 ·Time Warner VOIP
1 edit | quote:
The end user has already decided the fate of PSTN. For those people who want to continue using landline phones, the best thing the government can do is end the pricing regulation and allow for the price of these services to rise to the levels needed to maintain them.
Landlines are MUCH BETTER than this VOIP crap!!
I havent ever heard as many misrouted 911 calls (Call going to 911 from ppl who DID NOT DIAL IT) as i have heard since this crap has been in use,IT IS VERY UNRELIABLE!!
Sometimes calls are dropped quitr a bit,etc.............
YES LANDLINES ARE MORE EXPENSIVE..... BUT THE QUALITY IS BETTER AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN! | |
|
| | pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Re: FCC Behind the Curve Again said by Dude111: Landlines are MUCH BETTER than this VOIP crap!!
I havent ever heard as many misrouted 911 calls (Call going to 911 from ppl who DID NOT DIAL IT) as i have heard since this crap as been in use,IT IS VERY UNRELIABLE!!
Sometimes calls are dropped quitr a bit,etc.............
YES LANDLINES ARE MORE EXPENSIVE..... BUT THE QUALITY IS BETTER AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN! I don't disagree with any of what you say. However, quite a few people do not believe these facts are meritorious enough to warrant paying for PSTN-based service. I just think the current pricing regulation imposed on this service is only hastening its inevitable death.
Keep all the other safety and reliability regulations for PSTN in place. Just allow for the service providers to charge a price for the service that covers the costs of maintaining this service.
--
"Net Neutrality" zealots - the people you can thank for your capped Internet service. | |
|
| PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR | FCC Behind the Curve? Not really
It's not like the FCC has the authority to "kill" the PSTN. They are mandated by Congress to do certain things, and managing things like the USF to ensure that every American has access to the PSTN is one of them. Something like this will require a revision to the 1996 Telecomm Act, which is a very big deal and a very slow process (the last revision before that was 1933). Policy discussions like this one are the start of what will be a long process, and a necessary one for giving politicians cover, when a small, very vocal group of constituents scream that the type of phones they've been using all their lives is going away. Never underestimate how much trouble the AARP can cause. | |
|
mogamer
join:2011-04-20
Royal Oak, MI | PSTN elimination The FCC should tell ATT that the only way they'll eliminate PSTN service is if ATT builds fiber out to rural areas and charge the same rates or less of what they charge now for phone service in those areas. | |
|
| pandoraPremium
join:2001-06-01
Outland
kudos:1 |  Re: PSTN elimination
 | |
|
|  hdmanFlt RiderPremium
join:2003-11-25
Appleton, WI
 ·exede by ViaSat
| Amen!!! I could not agree more!! However, AT&T will say, "But we DO provide broadband to rural areas through our deal with WildBlue!" which is a CROCK! AT&T has been the worst thing for rural dwellers since dandilions......
--
The proper way to break in a Harley: Grab a fist full of throttle, and ride it like you stole it!!! | |
|
| | | | Re: PSTN elimination And I am one those poeple that is stuck with at&t in a rural area. The lines were I am are barley one step above two cans and a string. | |
|
| openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2 | Then let the the days of the AT&T regulated monopoly return with higher prices for everyone and guaranteed profits for the phone network company. | |
|
| | | FCC could not legally make that requirement never less set prices for T to charge. | |
|
| | alarm systems The big problem (and maybe not that big in the FCC's eyes) is all the security systems still using analog lines.
NFPA mandates fire alarms in commercial properties, and not until the 2010 edition did they include the use of IP communications. Most states and jurisdictions are still using older versions of the NFPA code, and dont allow anything other than 2 analog lines.
Even though the codes have been written to allow the transition off of the analog lines, it's going to take a long time for every local governemnt to adopt the codes and allow installations using newer technology. | |
|
| | | Re: alarm systems I am no expert on nationwide security system policies, however...
I had my first home security system activated in 2007, and we had the option of getting basic POTS service to monitor the system or pay $5 extra a month to ADT for a cellular link. We opted for the cellular security system as we did not and do not have POTS.
Added benefit - impossible for potential intruders to "cut" the line, also battery lasts for a loooong time. | |
|
| | | | Re: alarm systems Home security systems are a joke whether you use pOTS or cellular, they are just a big money maker for alarm companies. Dateline or 60mins did a big report on them a few years back and exposed all the holes and false sense of security they give.
Trust me, banks, museums, and other "important" places dont use dial up/cellular alarm systems | |
|
| | | | | Re: alarm systems said by datguy11 :Home security systems are a joke whether you use pOTS or cellular, they are just a big money maker for alarm companies. Dateline or 60mins did a big report on them a few years back and exposed all the holes and false sense of security they give.
Trust me, banks, museums, and other "important" places dont use dial up/cellular alarm systems
A potential burglar will *RUN* to the point of his heart exploding when my home alarm goes off. Keep on thinking that it's better for someone to silently sneak into your house, however remote the possibility. | |
|
 dslwanterIt's comingPremium
join:2002-12-16
Niles, OH | Caps The FCC should make a deal to kill it if telecom companies agree to avoid data caps and push digital phone. Perhaps bundle VOIP with broadband.
--
Yeah, it's kind of like that. | |
|
| Reviews:
 ·WOW Internet and..
| Re: Caps you do realize the FCC can not do that? And VoIP provided by the company is NOT counted towards a cap as it does NOT touch the public Internet. It operates on a private area of the network. The same as with IPTV on T. Does NOT use the actual Internet. | |
|
| | elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA Reviews:
 ·SONIC.NET
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Caps said by hottboiinnc:you do realize the FCC can not do that? And VoIP provided by the company is NOT counted towards a cap as it does NOT touch the public Internet. It operates on a private area of the network. The same as with IPTV on T. Does NOT use the actual Internet.
Shame on you, bringing up such inconvenient facts. | |
|
| | |
| | | Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
| Re: Caps it does. They're counting the PUBLIC Internet NOT private network data. and they're NOT a VoIP provider. They're a Digital Phone provider. VoIP is a different product when it comes down to it. VoIP uses the public Internet and Digital phone does NOT. VoIP has no QOS at all. Digital phone does. Digital Phone has actual local support- VoIP does NOT. You can't call up VoIP.ms and ask them to send a tech out due to it's not working. | |
|
| | | |  r81984Fair and BalancedPremium
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX
 ·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T DSL Service
 ·row44
1 edit | Re: Caps said by hottboiinnc:it does. They're counting the PUBLIC Internet NOT private network data. and they're NOT a VoIP provider. They're a Digital Phone provider. VoIP is a different product when it comes down to it. VoIP uses the public Internet and Digital phone does NOT. VoIP has no QOS at all. Digital phone does. Digital Phone has actual local support- VoIP does NOT. You can't call up VoIP.ms and ask them to send a tech out due to it's not working.
Just wow....
Companies like verizon and ATT have phased out their digital phone and now only offer VOIP. Only an access list stops companies like ATT or verizon from offering their phone services to people who have network connections from other ISPs. For example with ATT the only thing stopping non ATT internet subscribers from using Uverse VOIP is ATT.
Also most PSTN providers are tier 1 internet providers. Their private network is the internet.
It costs them same on their private network as it does to offload to a free pairing agreement network.
They are just using caps to help block competition.
--
...brought to you by Carl's Jr. | |
|
| | | | So are saying that they have parallel lines running along side each other..... one carrying POTS and the other DATA? | |
|
| | | | | Re: Caps you know what i mean. and that the fact its true. | |
|
 hhawkmanPremium
join:2001-02-08
Port Hueneme, CA | Rule of Thumb If AT&T wants it, I'm against it.
When was the last time AT&T did anything that didn't involve making their pockets fatter, and the general Population to lose out? | |
|
| | As if... As if Fios would actually be available to me by 2018. Ha, ha. Fat chance. | |
|
Reviews:
·voip.ms
| Cart before horse? It seems insane to me that the euthanasia of PSTN service is even being pushed without their being adequate safeguards in place to ensure that anyone who wants telephone service can have one.
Unlike the analog to digital switchover for television at least some attempts were made to soften the blow (coupons to reduce the cost of set top boxes etc.) now whether those attempts were ultimately successful is a debate for another thread.
Even so, TV isn't, I would argue, an essential service, while basic telephone service most assuredly is
There has to be a clear plan in place and those companies pushing to kill the PSTN service should made to bear the brunt of the costs of the switchover if they're so eager to "get out from under" these costs.
NefCanuck | |
|
 BF69Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | Note to at&t Eager to eliminate the costs of operating these lines, AT&T has been pushing for the death of the PSTN for several years already.
Simple build out your fiber to these areas and PRESTO no more worrying about PSTN. Or build out your wireless network and make it robust enough that 10 GB of data per user per month doesn't knock it out. Until their mobile data can at least have the same 150 GB cap they impose on DSL( which is a joke itself ) they need to STFU about how it's a broadband solution for rural areas. | |
|
| | | Re: Note to at&t and they are. Maybe the areas they don't care about they can sell to Fairpoint or Frontier? I i hear CentLink may even be interested. Maybe you'd be happy with one of those? | |
|
| | BF69Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | Re: Note to at&t said by hottboiinnc:and they are. Maybe the areas they don't care about they can sell to Fairpoint or Frontier? I i hear CentLink may even be interested. Maybe you'd be happy with one of those?
at& is going to increase the cap on wireless to 150 GB? Fantastic. Got a link? | |
|
 rchandraStargate Universe fanPremium
join:2000-11-09
14225-2105 |  why PSTN elimination is not the best idea
•As another poster has noted, with this trend for providers to move away from flat-rate billing models (towards caps and either huge overage charges or disconnections), this now turns my flat rate phone service into possibly variable rate service. And heaven help them if they're screwing with my Inet connection when I want to make an emergency call.
•Building on that, any unsolicited/telemarketer/political calls now have potential to shoot my monthly expenses through the roof.
•I dunno...I'm kind of hot-and-cold on it all. On the one hand it's consolidation of services, and therefore should reduce overall costs. But the quality goes down somewhat, kind of like when we went from analog to digital cell service. Latency alone concerns me, what with buffering on both ends plus usually a lot of intrinsic latency for even a US coast to coast call. (No, not a call to George Noory or Ian Punnett  More like NY to LA.)
•For latency and other issues, modems for access for things like networking equipment (when the problem is a firewall or VPN misbehaving), or for alarm systems, work poorly or not at all.
•But probably the most important reason of all....VoIP over IPv6 has barely budged from the starting line. When IPv6 service providers, both ISPs and TSPs, and equipment (ATAs), are as commonplace as IPv4 ones are today, THEN we have a shot at being ready for PSTN elimination. I don't even think it should be contemplated until this step is complete.
--
English is a difficult enough language to interpret correctly when its rules are followed, let alone when a writer chooses not to follow those rules.
Jeopardy! replies and randomcaps REALLY suck! | |
|
| | Of course it's att mouthing off about this... I live in att's region. No dsl, no u-verse, poor wireless broadband coverage. ATT is the worst of the remaining bells in building out in their region, always trying to skimp.
There should be no death for the pstn until the country has full coverage of an alternative at roughly comparable price and we aren't there yet, least of all in ATT territory.
This is a company that bitches incessantly about letting the market decide, the government should stay out of it, and now they want the fcc to impose a "date certain". Here's a clue for you att. If you get your fingers out of of your collective butts, spend what you need to spend to properly roll out modern services in your area, and price them properly users will migrate and you will not need the government to put this ancient network to death. But you would rather do it on the cheap, as always, and let the government bail your sorry assess out of your decisions to slash cap-ex. It's a bitch when the chickens come home to roost and there is a cost for sticking many of your customers with outdated technology. Give verizon a call and they can explain to you how your business works.
Yours truly,
A verizon voice and 3g customer(with no pstn voice line) in your ATT area. | |
|
|  DavidNow accepting new patientsPremium,VIP
join:2002-05-30
Granite City, IL
kudos:70 | Re: Of course it's att mouthing off about this... said by asdfdfdfdfdf :Yours truly,
A verizon voice and 3g customer(with no pstn voice line) in your ATT area.
I hate to say it, but with that line, you pretty much proved their point. | |
|
| | | | Re: Of course it's att mouthing off about this... said by David:said by asdfdfdfdfdf :Yours truly,
A verizon voice and 3g customer(with no pstn voice line) in your ATT area.
I hate to say it, but with that line, you pretty much proved their point. Big deal. I can say the same thing about Verizon. I live in a Verizon area where THEY are the local phone company. No DSL. No attempt to even improve the cables. No plan what so ever to bring FIOS to this area. In this area, they are the crappy local phone company.
--
brought to you by Carl's Jr.
Esteban Colberto for President of Cuba | |
|
| | | | | Re: Of course it's att mouthing off about this... If you have watched verizon's and ATT's(or sbc before swallowing ATT) behavior over the years and their cap-ex I think it is fair to say that verizon has made a much more substantive effort to extend both wired and wireless services than ATT. I understand that there will be places where people will say similar things about verizon, but my opinion isn't simply based on my personal experience. | |
|
| | | | How did I prove their point? There are many people not far from me who don't even have verizon coverage as an option. I just live close enough to a major city. What I have is in no way a serious substitute for modern wireline services and for many of the poor or elderly on fixed incomes there is no way that the cost of the services I have is financially reasonable for them and their needs. They are the people who are most at risk of shutting down the pstn, not me. The services I bought don't begin to be a comparable substitute for the voice network, either in terms of reliability or cost. I was willing to make the trade-offs because I was sick of giving ATT a dime of business when I knew they didn't give a shit. Not everyone is lucky enough to be in my position though. | |
|
 lordfly
join:2000-10-12
Homestead, FL
·SkyNet360
·AT&T Southeast
| Speaking of digital to analog Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't most PSTN connections going through an analog to digital device these days. And you would never notice unless everyone picked up and tried to dial at the same time because then you would realize there are not enough circuits to handle everyone at the switch. | |
|
| openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2 | Re: Speaking of digital to analog said by lordfly:Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't most PSTN connections going through an analog to digital device these days. I believe that to be correct for the last mile. Otherwise, the PSTN is pretty much digital now. Anyway, the PSTN is the PSTN, whether it's analog or digital.said by lordfly:And you would never notice unless everyone picked up and tried to dial at the same time because then you would realize there are not enough circuits to handle everyone at the switch. It's always been like that. Not much different than IP networks that will likely replace the PSTN  | |
|
| | | and it still happens. It's more of a common occurrence that what most seem to realize. | |
|
| | DSL? and what will all the att dsl people do? Most cant get the "wonderful" (cough) UVerse
I am trying to cut my landline now with vz.
The problem is landlines cost way too much. thats why people dont keep them. So now what little revenue they got from them they need to suck out of the cell users
--
Lakewood Accountability Action Group™ LAAG www.LAAG.us | Lakewood, CA
Demanding action and accountability from local government™
| |
|
|
| | changing horses, in the middle of the stream Seems to me, not even a decade ago, at&t (then, SBC) was terrified of land line loss.
What changed? iPhone? U-Verse?
While the 'new' at&t does offer customers the option of taking DSL without a PSTN service .. they're still for the most part, tied to the copper.
I lived in an area, which was upgraded to aerial fibre, and U-Verse, but that too, had its share of issues.
People will say, IF at&t deploys fibre to the curb, or Fibre to the Premise, it would be different. I disagree! Most of the real talent at the 'new' at&t is leaving to pursue other things now. I was one of them! I terminated my employment, and all my services with at&t. I even dumped the stock options I was granted over the years, in lieu of cash bonuses. My 401K, was moved out of at&t stock as well. For a damn good reason too! BellSouth management is sending what was once decent, into the toilet. Who's left to plan and implement this massive investment? The talentless ass clowns who have been sending the 'new' at&t into the toilet?
From a business prospective, taking over the "classic BS" baby bell might have been a good idea. They have all of Cingular now, but the BellSouth infrastructure is the crap that even crap, says is crap. If the management from "classic BS" is running the 'new' at&t, the same way, I fear for millions of Americans.
No longer can you depend on the dialtone being there, when you pick up the phone.
If you do, you're going to be very disappointed!
The 'infrastructure' of at&t is riddled with holes and vulnerabilities. Some clowns like Anonymous could turn them off, just like flipping a switch.
Death to Ma' Bell!
Down with at&t!
Lerch & Darth Felo can eat my shorts! | |
|
|
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS
| life after pstn Will $2.90 for the usf fund and $1 for 911 be enough? (DIGITAL VOICE/VOIP)
Also, AT&T and Verizon shouldn't be allowed to purge more "UNPROFITABLE" customers.. particularly rural customers.
Time to run some more fiber out to the sticks so they don't have to be served completely over copper... which is what many have been calling for all along! A single bundle of fiber optic cables can serve the rural zones with enough bandwidth for more than just calling and death of the pstn will have to madate some kind of infrastucture upgrades to make it possible to serve rural areas with lifeline phone service that trunks with fiber optics within 50-100 miles of rural communities. Telcos have been fighting this end game for quite some time.. AT&T will be the company that will have the most upfront costs to deal with this and will most likely be looking for a hand-out which will never come....
Greater access to wireless networks should also be part of the plan! | |
|
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
·Cox HSI
| only if.. If at&t/verizon would have just done their job and done the proper upgrades in the first place then this would not be an issue
but instead over the years, they just went the cheap route, milked 50yr old copper until the death, and then bitched when they needed to finally actually upgrade the lines. | |
|
b10010011Whats a Posting tag?
join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA Reviews:
·Comcast Formerl..
| ONLY after the alternatives are as reliable as PSTN
Case in point this was a few blocks away from my home.
»www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVXi_0H_ZzM
![]()
Electricity, Comcast TV, phone, internet service, and even Verizion cellular was DOWN!
I suspect it effected other cellular carriers because I could not even get a roaming signal on my cellphone.
My POTS line still worked perfectly...
There has been more than one local emergency where they were on the local radio stations pleading for people to not use their cellular phones because the towers were all jammed and emergency services needed the cellular service to coordinate. | |
|
 JimThePCGuyFormerly known as schja01.Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-27
Morton Grove, IL | When IP phone can survive a 48+ hour power outage, I'm in. Just came off a 48 hour storm related power outage. No electric, no cable, no UVerse no nothing.
But my direct wired POTS phones worked just fine thank you.
When IP phones are immune to power outages I'm on board but not until then.
No cellular isn't an option.
When I call 911 I want to make sure the Fire Dept. knows exactly which door to break down when "I've fallen and can't get up".
POTS 911 gives me that, cellular does not. | |
|
| Reviews:
·MSN
·Brand X Internet
·DSL EXTREME
| Re: When IP phone can survive a 48+ hour power outage, I'm in. Correct. POTS will do all that. What telco needs to do is market a '911 only' service that only allows incoming and 911/toll free outgoing calls. I know lots of people with kids that would pay 10 dollars a month for this. If alarm companies began providing toll free numbers, this would also be an ideal line for their use. | |
|
| | POTS Not Down For The Count I'm telling all of you right now, if copper based POTS service dies, your telecom independence dies with it. Cellular phones all have crappy voice receptions, digital phones (i.e. Comcast Voice) go down constantly (and go out completely with power loss). Nothing in this country is more reliable than your copper based Plain Old Telephone Service. The local exchange carriers have battery back-ups that will support your landlines for hours and hours after power loss. If we lose those lines, we lose dependability, clarity, and freedom.
The last time I checked, my twisted pair, copper based POTS line did not require a $30 per month extra data plan to operate. | |
|
| | | Re: POTS Not Down For The Count your pots line doesn't require a data plan - and how fast does that data come through? Stream video much? If everyone picks up the pots line in an emergency, calls block there as well. In an ice storm, it can take a week to restore pots to a neighborhood. It takes a few hours to restore a cell tower. Ask any ten people what they would give up first, their landline or their cell. the pstn is over.... | |
|
|
|
