The FCC's Split PersonalityOne says no problem, the other says BPL will help... ( old news - 05:18PM Friday Jul 27 2007) tags: fcc · BPLWhile FCC Commissioner Robert McDowell this week was busy telling the public there is no broadband problem, Commissioner Adelstein was testifying before Congress saying that there is. Adelstein pushed for a national broadband strategy, and then took the position that greater investment was needed in broadband over powerline technology, which once again annoyed ham operators: "Calling the FCC's "inexplicable favoritism of BPL in the face of contrary evidence" one of the Commission's "failures," Sumner noted that according to the Commission's own latest figures, "of 64,600,000 'high-speed' lines, only about 5000 are BPL. This is a share of 0.008 percent, a share that actually declined in the six-month period between reports -- and if an 'anemic' definition were not used, none of the 5000 or so BPL lines would qualify." ARRL's concern, Sumner said, at the "prospect of an even greater encouragement of BPL, as your testimony suggests, is that -- even at the very low level of deployment that exists to date -- the FCC's enforcement efforts have proved to be woefully inadequate to address ongoing cases of harmful interference from BPL systems." Broadband over powerline is a niche technology that has simply failed to materialize for a number of reasons, including its potential for interference and the fact that many utilities aren't sold on getting into the broadband business. The FCC clings to it as a third pipe dream despite the fact it seems perpetually stuck in neutral.
Related:- Hams Say Martin Misrepresenting BPL
- Hams Want FCC To Actually Study BPL Before Praising It
- Hams Demand FCC BPL Test Data
- FCC Ignoring BPL Interference?
- FCC, Hams Spar Over Powerline Broadband
- Court Agrees with ARRL in FCC BPL Issue
- Broadband Over Powerline (BPL) Stumbles
- New Docs Show FCC Glossed Over BPL Flaws
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Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
 ·Qwest.net
| Phooey BPL is hanging on like poop in a set of "waffle stomper boots" you just can't quite get all of the crap out from between the tread. Of course since the FCC is full of crap why are we surprised by this. 
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Remember safe sex does not prevent crabs. | |
| 
SteveCon
IBEW 2222 Boston, MA
Premium
join:2004-09-02
Burlington, MA
 ·Verizon FIOS
| BPL - Destroys natural resources BPL pollutes the HF radio spectrum, filling huge swaths with beeping and screeching noises that make radio unusable. The HF spectrum is finite. It has some amazing properties that allow communications around the world with relatively low power.
If BPL were polluting the air you breathe or water you drink even a fraction of the way it pollutes the radio spectrum, people would be screaming foul to the EPA!
The FCC is charged with keeping the airwaves clear the way the EPA is with our environment. The FCC is quite content to ignore their own rules and the complaints from licensed services that are continuously subjected to this harmful interference. The FCC should enforce the rules, and ban further BPL trials until the operators can prove that they no longer pollute the radio spectrum. | |
|  | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: BPL - Destroys natural resources said by SteveCon  :BPL pollutes the HF radio spectrum, filling huge swaths with beeping and screeching noises that make radio unusable. The HF spectrum is finite. It has some amazing properties that allow communications around the world with relatively low power. If BPL were polluting the air you breathe or water you drink even a fraction of the way it pollutes the radio spectrum, people would be screaming foul to the EPA! The FCC is charged with keeping the airwaves clear the way the EPA is with our environment. The FCC is quite content to ignore their own rules and the complaints from licensed services that are continuously subjected to this harmful interference. The FCC should enforce the rules, and ban further BPL trials until the operators can prove that they no longer pollute the radio spectrum. As long as BPL provided porn for the lonely basement dwellers that have no highspeed internet, they wouldn't care if BPL killed little babies.  | |
| | | 
RealoRc
Premium
join:2003-01-25
Brooklyn, NY | Re: BPL - Destroys natural resources If BPL was proven to provide porn then we'd have a bigger push to end BPL trials. | |
| bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
1 edit | 700Mhz ? Maybe the BPL guys out there can figure out a way to start using the 700Mhz spectrum that is coming up for auction and, get a winning big and use that instead of the spectrum they use now.
It will solve the HAM problem pretty quickly.
Of course if ATT or Verizon wins the auction, I definitely hope that BPL will go to 700Mhz. 
Of course this might all be eliminated if the BPL vendors out there went with E-Line.
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Prove it...
Save the Internet Time (NTP) service, use the pool. | |
| | ohmygod
join:2007-02-05
Sunnyvale, CA
| Re: 700Mhz ? The FCC board is political, not technical. The technical folks at the FCC, just as at FDA, CDC, etc. are generally competent, ethical people. They have already cited the defects of BPL and have been silenced.
This is now a nation of lobbyists who bribe the politicians to do the will of their employers, the BPL equipment manufacturers. Let's hope they fail. Let's help them fail. | |
| | | bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| Re: 700Mhz ? said by ohmygod :They have already cited the defects of BPL and have been silenced. And those problems can be fixed... E-Line is one such technology.
Let's hope they fail. Let's help them fail. No, it would be better if we can work on helping them solve the problems with BPL. E-Line is step in the right direction.
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Prove it...
Save the Internet Time (NTP) service, use the pool. | |
| | | glazenuts
Premium
join:2002-06-13
Culver City, CA | you mean they are "For Sale" Like all street walkers. | |
| 
gwion
wild colonial boy
Premium,ExMod 2001-08
join:2000-12-28
Pittsburgh, PA
| BPL is a farce... ... a niche, interim technology. Oh, yes, let's postepone rural fiberization a few more years, let's postepone vDSL, even... let's milk a dead, 1960's technology, just so we can force the last five cents' worth out of our copper plant, before we take last decade's tech out to the boonies, so we can milk it some more. BPL is an interim fix; it's 2007, we don't need interim fixes, we need 21st century, lasting, "solutions". Today's word is "fiber"... "B over" is an anachronism... an absurdity, even...
I reiterate. BPL is a farce.
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Semper Eadem
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... For Fergus rules the brazen cars,
And rules the shadows of the wood,
And the white breast of the dim sea,
And all dishevelled wandering stars. | |
| | 
KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
 ·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| Re: BPL is a farce... I'm thinking, for Rural areas, Wireless may be their last, best hope. I don't see fiber being economical to run for a long time out into the rural areas, but a highspeed wireless option could cover a large area with much less startup costs.
Seems this 700 mhz auction really could be even more important for that reason alone. If the big players get it and sit on it, it's going to be a sad day for America's information infrastructure, IMHO.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
| 
Paladin
Sage of the light
join:2001-08-17
Chester, IL | Hey, there's your Democratic FCC Chair! Noted just in case anyone thinks that a change in power in the Executive Branch would change our broadband policy. It would be great if that happened but I'm not that optimistic. | |
| 
Chivalry
Premium
join:2005-02-10
Chula Vista, CA
| Against BPL? I see that the story is biased against BPL. Commissioner Adelstein is trying to do the right thing here and bring broadband to areas unserviced by Cable or DSL.
Although to the author it may seem like a lost cause, to the rural population of the United States, it's hope that the goal of human progress in information exchange will triumph over politics.
While the expansion of the Internet brings us more educated people, increased competitiveness in a global business environment, and instantly accessible porn, how does HAM radio advance humanity? When people can go to College over HAM radio, they can argue that its importance trumps that of BPL. Until then, HAM radio operators can go jump in a lake. | |
| | 
halfband
Premium
join:2002-06-01
Huntsville, AL
·Comcast
| Re: Against BPL? BPL will never be deployed in rural areas, it simply cost too much. As for HAM radio, it is available anywhere, even places that are too remote for phone service, let alone broadband. If you are hoping that bpl will in some way help rural areas, I am sorry, it will never happen. Why the FCC of all groups would push BPL which does not seem to be an answer to broadband access and would cause problems with the very radio spectrum that it is the job of the FCC to protect is beyond me. Rural areas without line of site issues need to push for access to wireless for broadband. Some of the 700MHz and other blocks that are to be released by over the air TV would be a good choice.
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Registered Bandwidth Offender #40812 | |
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Chivalry
Premium
join:2005-02-10
Chula Vista, CA
| Re: Against BPL? said by halfband :BPL will never be deployed in rural areas, it simply cost too much.
Humanity will never put a man on the moon either.
said by halfband : As for HAM radio, it is available anywhere, even places that are too remote for phone service, let alone broadband.
How does the speed of HAM radio internet access compare to BPL?
said by halfband : If you are hoping that bpl will in some way help rural areas, I am sorry, it will never happen. Whether it helps rural areas or not, it can provide Internet access. Do you refute that BPL can provide Internet access?
said by halfband :Why the FCC of all groups would push BPL which does not seem to be an answer to broadband access and would cause problems with the very radio spectrum that it is the job of the FCC to protect is beyond me. It is an answer to broadband access. Broadband over Power Lines provides broadband access. It is one method of many for providing Internet access. The FCC sees that a sacrifice must be made in order to increase broadband connectivity in the United States. That sacrifice is to do away with HAM radio, which offers less benefit to society than BPL does.
said by halfband :Rural areas without line of site issues need to push for access to wireless for broadband. Some of the 700MHz and other blocks that are to be released by over the air TV would be a good choice. That's a good idea. At the same time, we can be pushing for BPL. Choice is good. | |
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Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
·Qwest.net
| Re: Against BPL? I am wondering what color you eyes are, I would guess brown because you are so full of sh*t they must be. Your towering ignorance of what the Amateur Radio Service is striking.
The Role of the Amateur Radio Service in Disaster
Mitigation and Relief Operations
Introduction
In the recent ETSI/CENELEC Questionnaire relating to the Draft Product Family Emission Standard for Telecommunication Networks, Section 9 (Provisions for Protection of Safety and Emergency Services) an Annex was included proposing the list of frequencies to be afforded particular protection. ar in 5.6.1 the users of telecommunications in the service of humanitarian assistance, participatinadministrations are encouraged to include the amateur serviceIncluded in this list were the amateur radio bands, which have long been recognised by the ITU as being used in the event of natural and man-made disasters and relief operations.
This paper sets out the international ITU/UN regulatory and advisory background to the use of the Amateur Radio Service in emergency communication.
Background
The Amateur Radio Service provides a decentralised communications network, operated by technically qualified people, a network which cannot be shut down by terrorist attack. National amateur licensing arrangements specifically include provisions for amateurs to provide communications at times of emergency. The Amateur Radio Service and its role in emergency communications has been well documented in the proceedings of the ITU over many years, as shown in the following paragraphs extracted from the relevant resolutions, recommendations and agreements:
Safety Service: Any radiocommunications service used permanently or temporarily for the safeguarding of human life or property” (ITU Radio Regulations S1.59)
A Convention on Disaster Communications should, at a minimum:
c) Ensure the utilization to the maximum extent of existing global, regional and national terrestrial and satellite communications networks, encourage the immediate availability at national, regional and international centres of communications equipment and encourage the development of the amateur radio services and their application to disaster communications” (Tampere declaration on disaster communications 1991)
disaster preparedness requires the existence of decentralised means of communications such as, but not limited to, those provided by mobile and portable satellite terminals and by the amateur radio services, to supplement the vulnerable element of the national, regional and global communication networks” (World Telecommunications Development Conference, Buenos Aires, 1994)
The ITU Radiocommunications Assembly recommends:
1 that administrations encourage the development of amateur service and amateur satellite networks capable of providing communications in the event of natural disasters 1
2 that such networks be robust, flexible and independent of other telecommunications services and capable of operating from emergency power
3 that amateur organisations are invited to promote the design of robust systems capable of providing communications during disasters and relief operations
4 that amateur organisations be allowed to exercise their networks periodically during normal non-disaster periods” (ITR-R M1042.1 – Disaster Communications in the Amateur and Amateur Satellite Services)
The Conference resolves to invite the ITU Radiocommunication Sector to continue to study as a matter of urgency those aspects of radio communications that are relevant to disaster mitigation and relief operations, such as decentralised means of communications that are appropriate and generally available, including amateur radio facilities and mobile and portable satellite terminals” (World Radiocommunication Conferences 1997/200, Resolution 644)
The ITU Development Sector recommends:
1 that s in their national disaster plans and telecommunication assistance information inventories
2 that administrations are urged to reduce and, where possible, remove, barriers to the effective utilisation of the amateur services for disaster communications
3 that amateur and disaster relief organisations are encouraged to develop memoranda of understanding (MoU) as well as to co-operate, together with other concerned parties, in developing and making available model agreements and best practices in disaster telecommunications”
(Recommendation ITU-D13 April 2001)
The World Telecommunication Development Conference resolves ……to invite the ITU Telecommunication Development Sector to continue to ensure that proper consideration be given to emergency telecommunications as an element of telecommunication development, including, in close coordination and collaboration with the ITU Recommendation and telecommunication Standardisation Sectors and the relevant international organisations, by facilitating and encouraging the use of decentralised means of communications that are appropriate and generally available, including those provided by the amateur radio service and satellite and terrestrial network services…….” (ITU World Telecommunications Development Conference, Istanbul 2002)
In view of the specific environment in which the response to disasters (in the sense of the definition in CPM Report 2.1.1.1 para 4) take place, the UN emphasises the need for an unhindered application of all means of telecommunications available to the providers of disaster relief. Given the important role of the Amateur Radio Service in disaster response, and having reviewed the conclusions of extensive studies reflected in the CPM Report, in particular in the WGET support a realignment [of the 7 MHz amateur band] “ ((United Nations, in a paper (Document 28E) submitted by Yoshio Utsumi, Secretary General ITU to the World Radio communications Conference 2003) 23
Administrations are encouraged to take the necessary steps to allow amateur stations to prepare for and meet communication need in support of disaster relief” (ITU Radio Regulations Article 25.9A as agreed at WRC 2003)
The role of the Amateur Radio Service in disaster relief is also well acknowledged in many countries. In the US, for example, Department of Homeland Security Liaison to the White House Liz DiGregorio called amateur radio operators the first of the first responders. "You are there. You are part of that very, very first response when it happens locally, especially in the initial stages of an emergency or disaster”, DiGregorio said. She urged amateurs to explore ways to expand their role in the community beyond being the last resort when other communication systems fail. "You need to show your community that you're engaged," she said. "They need to know as a community that [amateur radio] is there."
The relevance to the ETSI/CENELEC Questionnaire
Annex C to the Draft Product Family Emission Standard for Telecommunication Networks refers to
European Harmonised Frequency Bands for Safety Related Services and Applications. This heading has been challenged in some quarters, as many of the frequencies are not officially harmonised in Europe. This is technically true, but in the case of the Amateur Service allocations, they are frequency bands allocated on a global basis to that Service. They are also bands that have been recognised by ITU for use in cases of disaster relief and which, in emergencies, may also be used by NGOs and international relief agencies, as well as by amateurs themselves. The use of these bands (as listed in Annex C of the Questionnaire), rather than specific frequencies in an HF environment allows selection of a frequency for traffic which avoids interference from other amateur stations or other sources of unwanted emissions.
Radio Amateurs are regularly called on to provide communication support in emergency situations, be these natural (e.g. earthquakes, fires, floods etc) or man-made disasters (e.g. major air crashes), and terrorist incidents (September 11 2001 etc). Just because the commercial communications infrastructure in much of Europe is well developed does not mean that European amateurs are not at the receiving end of emergency communications links. It is thus right and proper that amateur frequencies globally are regarded as ones which must always be available for emergency traffic and kept clear of interference, particularly interference which will be present 24 hours a day (such as emissions from PLT systems). It is for this reason that the ETSI/CENELEC Joint Working Group included amateur frequencies in Annex C of the Draft Product Family Emission Standard for Telecommunication Networks.
IARU respectfully draws the attention of WGFM to the contents of this paper, and the important role of the Amateur Radio Service in disaster relief communication. In particular it is vital to disaster relief communication that the Amateur Radio Service frequency bands remain listed in Annex C of the Draft Product Family Emission Standard for Telecommunication Networks.
Submitted by the International Amateur Radio Union, Region 1
December 2003
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Remember safe sex does not prevent crabs. | |
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Chivalry
Premium
join:2005-02-10
Chula Vista, CA
| Re: Against BPL? We have cell phone towers. They tend to prove useful in disaster situations. Government emergency agencies have their own spectrum to communicate with each other and if that doesn't work, they have cell phones.
Considering that BPL is delivered over power lines, the case of it being knocked out would indicate that there would be no power. How do you suppose that a HAM radio would operate without power? | |
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Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
·Qwest.net
| Re: Against BPL? It is documented one of the first things to go is cell service either by damage or overloading. The "BPL will be gone" argument just illustrates you acknowledge BPL does cause harmful interference, and has been put forward numerous time on this forum. What you apparently don't understand is the need to practice and check equipment. We take these duties very seriously and practice constantly.
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Remember safe sex does not prevent crabs. | |
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Chivalry
Premium
join:2005-02-10
Chula Vista, CA
| Re: Against BPL? Oh, I'm sure that it does interfere with HAM radio. The consensus is that BPL does interfere with HAM. I'm unconvinced that HAM plays a irreplaceable role.
Most of the arguments I hear have to do with its role in disasters or the fact that it can communicate over long distances. I certainly wouldn't depend on a HAM radio to call for help in the hopes that I'd reach the INCREDIBLY narrow portion of the population that operates a HAM radio. I also wouldn't use a HAM radio for communications in remote areas when Satellite is available.
Ah yes, and Satellite phones are still alive. Maybe HAM would be better than a Satellite phone in a meteor shower. HAM operators everywhere could get on their shitty radios and call SPACE FEMA for us. | |
| | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by Chivalry :While the expansion of the Internet brings us more educated people, increased competitiveness in a global business environment, and instantly accessible porn, how does HAM radio advance humanity? When people can go to College over HAM radio, they can argue that its importance trumps that of BPL. Until then, HAM radio operators can go jump in a lake. As stated many times before, BPL will NEVER go into rural areas because of the same issues facing fiber, cable and DSL....distance.
You have no clue as most people who bash HAM radio.
And since one of your main points is porn, you really need to get out of your basement and look for some human interaction. Unless you can show me how you would get a degree in porn at the local university.
Try again. | |
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Chivalry
Premium
join:2005-02-10
Chula Vista, CA
| Re: Against BPL? I mentioned porn as a joke.
"You have no clue as most people who bash HAM radio."
Is a fallacious argument. You never said how HAM radio is beneficial to society. I made an argument; regardless of whether or not BPL is deployed to rural areas, it still offers a wide variety of ways in which information can be exchanged. One of those ways is that people can attend institutions of higher education via the Internet. | |
| | | |
Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
·Qwest.net
| And there is more...... In Katrina's Wake, Ham Radio Triumphs
By David Maliniak, AD2A
David Maliniak
ED Online ID #11136
September 19, 2005
Copyright © 2006 Penton Media, Inc., All rights reserved.
Printing of this document is for personal use only.
Reprints
A few months ago, NBC's Tonight Show staged a race between a pair of ham-radio operators with Morse-code keys and a couple of kids with text-messaging cellphones to see who could communicate faster. The hams won hands down, proving, in the minds of some, that old technology could hold its own against new. In recent days, ham radio was put to the test again by Hurricane Katrina. This time, however, lives were at stake.
In the world of design engineers and electronics in general, change is essential. Designers work diligently to make the fruits of their labors obsolete almost before they see daylight. The turnover in technology is sometimes like a flood, with old being washed away by new over and over. Often, the new beats the heck out of the old. But there are times when old isn't necessarily bad; in fact, sometimes old works when new doesn't. And then we're glad that old is still around, or at least we should be.
Wireless technology, while relatively new to many consumers, is of course not new at all. A few (very) old-timers remember the original "wireless" of radio. The revolution wrought by the pioneers of wireless changed the world then, and the technology behind that revolution has been re-invented and re-applied time and again. Its pre-eminent incarnation today is our near-ubiquitous wireless communications infrastructure, which has freed us from the shackles of landlines and made our mobile lifestyles possible. Technology truly is great stuff.
Until, of course, a monster hurricane comes along to render it nearly useless. Here we see a scenario in which a flood literally swept away the new. As Hurricane Katrina's fury hammered the Gulf states on August 29, the communications infrastructure took a devastating hit. Telephone service, including wireless, became at first intermittent and then unusable in many localities. Where there was phone service, 911 switchboards were often unreachable due to the massive volume of calls. The response of local authorities, now termed "confused" by deposed FEMA chief Michael Brown, wasn't helping much. The Gulf Coast was about to descend into darkness, chaos, and, worst of all for many, silence.
But proponents of the old were at the ready. The "old," in this case, is ham radio. In the eyes of the "man on the street," ham radio has a pretty stodgy reputation. Aren't hams still using Morse code? Don't some of them use radios with tubes, for goodness sake? What the "man in the street" probably doesn't know is that it was amateurs who advanced the radio arts early in the 20th century. Down through the decades, amateurs have embraced (and often driven) all of the innovations in wireless technology, up to and including all digital modes and the Internet. But many have stayed in touch with their roots, which is good old-fashioned analog HF operation. And while amateurs have a longstanding tradition as innovators and experimenters, they also have a mandate that comes with their licenses: to be ready, willing, and able to provide emergency communications whenever and wherever they're needed.
As Katrina bore down on the Gulf region, amateur radio operators, under the aegis of the American Radio Relay League's (ARRL's) Amateur Radio Emergency Service (ARES), prepared to swing into action with emergency networks that would run health-and-welfare traffic into and out of the disaster zone. As early as the Monday following the storm, hams throughout the hurricane zone were putting emergency stations on the air. In one instance, hams were instrumental in the rescue of 15 people clinging for life to a New Orleans rooftop. Meanwhile, in Alabama, amateur SKYWARN weather nets kept the National Weather Service apprised of conditions throughout the state. In hard-hit sections of Mississippi, hams running off generators and with makeshift antennas were the only means of communication, getting word to out-of-state friends and relatives concerning their loved ones.
There were numerous other instances of hams helping those who were not simply inconvenienced by the storm, but whose lives were in imminent danger. Now that things have calmed down in the Gulf region, many of the emergency nets have stood down. But hams continue to serve the public in the many areas that are still without power or phone service.
As our nation collects itself in the aftermath of the Katrina disaster, President Bush has promised federal reviews of what went right and what went wrong. One of the findings of those inquiries should be that the federally-instituted Amateur Radio Service, which functions under the licensing authority of the FCC, stood tall when the country needed it.
Amateur radio currently faces various threats to its existence. Chief among those is the advent of broadband-over-powerline (BPL) technology, which, if broadly adopted, has the potential to cause widespread interference to HF communications, not just for amateurs but for other services that use the HF spectrum.
Amateurs and the ARRL have made a lot of noise about BPL, asserting that it could seriously hamper their efforts and those of relief agencies such as the Red Cross and Salvation Army, in the event of a disaster such as Katrina. It's rumored, though, that the same FCC commissioners who have given their blessing to BPL field trials will now take a much harder look at the technical issues concerning BPL and its interference potential in the HF spectrum. Let's face it: The federal government didn't handle the emergency in the Gulf very well; it'd be prudent for it not to sanction a technology that could impede one of the few things that actually worked.
Many readers of this newsletter are amateur radio enthusiasts. If you are, and if you haven't already done so, consider writing your congressman to express your concern about the future of the Amateur Radio Service, especially in light of its outstanding efforts in recent days. Remind your elected representatives that a vibrant and unimpeded Amateur service can and will be a lifesaver when disaster strikes. Also, consider how you yourself might help. What if a hurricane, tornado, or earthquake ravages your area? Are you prepared to get on the air without relying on the mains to handle emergency traffic? Get in touch with your local amateur-radio club and find out how you can pitch in.
Your cell phones and wireless routers are indeed great stuff, but so is a good old HF transceiver. We shouldn't always be in such a hurry to let the flood of new technology wash away the old. The geek down the block with all the antennas on his property could turn out to be your best friend someday. Because sometimes, old trumps new.
You can e-mail David Maliniak at dmaliniak@penton.com.
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Remember safe sex does not prevent crabs. | |
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Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
·Qwest.net
| Re: And there is still more, and more, and more..... I can bury your arguments with still more information and testimonials. We have history and the truth on our side. BPL is nothing but a con' job. They misrepresent what they can do, lie about rural deployment, ignore documented complains of RFI, claiming they don't interfere with anything. stone wall technical inquiries, and keep the number of people served secret while implying large numbers when it is only about 5000 people who have BPL. This is after years and years of promises of great things.
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Remember safe sex does not prevent crabs. | |
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Chivalry
Premium
join:2005-02-10
Chula Vista, CA
| Re: And there is still more, and more, and more..... Burying won't be necessary. We already have a telecommunications infrastructure underground.
There are other technologies available to take the place of HAM Radio. Satellite phones and cell phones are two good examples. The police and fire department don't use the HAM radio spectrum; they have their own. They are the ones that handle emergencies.
Only 5000 people have BPL because there is still a debate over its future. Utility companies aren't going to invest in and expand the BPL footprint until the debate is settled and legislation is enacted. Utility companies want the same subsidies and tax breaks that telecom companies are receiving in order to bring broadband to otherwise unprofitable rural areas. Some towns in my home state, Southern Illinois, were able to get broadband because of these subsidies and tax breaks. | |
| | | | | | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: And there is still more, and more, and more..... said by Chivalry :Burying won't be necessary. We already have a telecommunications infrastructure underground. Most of the power lines are above ground.
STRIKE 1!
said by Chivalry :There are other technologies available to take the place of HAM Radio. Satellite phones and cell phones are two good examples. The police and fire department don't use the HAM radio spectrum; they have their own. They are the ones that handle emergencies. Cell phones were dead after Katrina and the few sites that did work were overloaded and most people didn't have anyway to charge their cell phones. Sat phones are costly and very few could afford them. Even the police and fire units were using HAM operators because the lack of infrastructure helped since HAM radio is not centralized unlike police and fire.
And maybe you should check how HAM radio helps out California during their wildfires.
»www.wr6wr.com/newSite/news/index.html
Check out the second article.
Here what a magazine for Fire Department officials has to say:
»firechief.com/communications/fir···r_power/
quote:
Ham radio operators all across this country have installed high-quality 2-meter and higher frequency repeater systems. These transceivers are available and encouraged for emergency communications. Local amateur owners willingly support such use, as it is one of the basic tenets of amateur radio. Emergency services shouldn't use these amateur radio systems for routine, day-to-day fire department traffic, but when an emergency exists, the hams of this nation will relinquish the use of these repeaters for emergency traffic.
STRIKE 2!
said by Chivalry :Only 5000 people have BPL because there is still a debate over its future. Utility companies aren't going to invest in and expand the BPL footprint until the debate is settled and legislation is enacted. Utility companies want the same subsidies and tax breaks that telecom companies are receiving in order to bring broadband to otherwise unprofitable rural areas. Some towns in my home state, Southern Illinois, were able to get broadband because of these subsidies and tax breaks. And most of those trials are going nowhere and not making the instant money they thought it would. Cable is already delivering phone and telcos are delivering TV. BPL does not have the bandwidth to add all those services.
STRIKE 3! You're out of here! | |
| | | | | | | | N3EVL
join:2004-12-13
Shrewsbury, MA
| Re: And there is still more, and more, and more..... Our not so chivalrous friend has plainly stated that, at least in his world, the interference caused by BPL is of no consequence (to him).
I'll give him the benefit of the doubt in assuming he is aware that this is HF we're talking about and the BPL pollution affects more than the small percentage of total HF bandwidth allocated to amateur radio.
In any event his indifference to such pollution involving the coincidental trashing of a resource (HF) is both apparent and sad. His internet-at-any-cost standards for acceptable engineering set new lows. | |
| | | | N3EVL
join:2004-12-13
Shrewsbury, MA
| Re: Against BPL? said by Chivalry :...regardless of whether or not BPL is deployed to rural areas, it still offers a wide variety of ways in which information can be exchanged. One of those ways is that people can attend institutions of higher education via the Internet. ...And some of those future students might end up studying electronics and RF Engineering and learn all about how people used to be able to communicate world-wide with no infrastructure until the HF spectrum was trashed by the beeps and squawks of BPL - but it's all for their good, of course:( | |
| 
ctceo
Premium
join:2001-04-26
South Bend, IN
clubs: | Quite a shame It is all quite a shame that this great technology has ran across such negative media. | |
| | N3EVL
join:2004-12-13
Shrewsbury, MA
| Re: Quite a shame On the contrary, it is right and fitting that this shabby excuse for a broadband delivery mechanism has had its many faults exposed. No amount of positive media efforts will suffice to mask those problems.
At least contributor "Chivalry" has not attempted to disguise the shortcomings of the technology in terms of interference to licensed services (though I fundamentally disagree with his/her conclusions).
I wonder about the dream world you inhabit where BPL's problems are all due to bad media! | |
| | | | | N3EVL
join:2004-12-13
Shrewsbury, MA
| Re: Quite a shame Again, on the contrary, with as much debate as this subject has had on this forum, I'm surprised you're still barking up that media tree. "Poor old BPL, if only it were presented properly, everything would be alright." Yeah, get yourself a new consultant in a suit and that'll make the nasty interference go away! But wait, there isn't any interference, well maybe just a little bit but we'll take care of it, honest - are you sure it's not ignition noise - yes, that's it...etc, etc | |
| | | | W1RFI
join:2003-05-12
Burlington, CT
| Re: Quite a shame He IS a consultant for the industry. That condescending response of his really wasn't helpful to anyone. It is a continuation of the confrontation and argument that has been more effective at holding this industry back than anything else.
Time will tell whether this industry can overcome the technical issues which make BPL far less turnkey than is presented generally by the industry. One utility involved in BPL has posted a blog that shows time after time that "this time it is really fixed." While these start up issues should not be surprising, as I look throught that blog and this thread, I have to ask myself whose judgement is clouded.
See »www.arrl.org/news/stories/2007/0···01/?nc=1.
I will add that one should not infer that the particular BPL manufacturer involved, IBEC, is the root of the issue. In my travels in BPL circles, I talk with a lot of folks, and those cases where candid information is being exchanged, it is clear that BPL systems are being "designed on the pole," to quote a different BPL consultant. The issues outlined in the blog apply to the industry as a whole, to one degree or another, more than they do a specific manufacturer. IBEC is among those that are working cooperatively with radio users, so from our perspective, they are one of the good guys.
Speaking for Amateur Radio, I don't have a direct interest in whether BPL works or does not, other than the EMC issues. Speaking from that EMC perspective, it is clear to me that the rules as written by the FCC do not address the interference issue. Those companies that have worked cooperatively with ARRL are doing more than those rules require and have avoided inteference to Amateur Radio (orm making progress to do so.) Those that choose confrontation over cooperation are contributing to the very factors that made is necessary for Sumner to criticize the FCC.
CTCEO's premise that because you are a ham, your judgement must be clouded is a mantra that has not worked well for the industry, and the more successful companies within it have abandoned that approach, usually years ago.
I, too, am licensed, and feel that my radiocommunications experience is a valuable asset to my ability to help industry responsibly address EMC. It is also seen as an asset by many in the BPL industry and in the various parts of the IEEE EMC Society, which I also serve.
Ed Hare, W1RFI
ARRL Laboratory Manager
225 Main St
Newington, CT 06111
Tel: 860-594-0318
Email: W1RFI@arrl.org | |
| | | | | N3EVL
join:2004-12-13
Shrewsbury, MA
| Re: Quite a shame said by W1RFI :...Speaking for Amateur Radio, I don't have a direct interest in whether BPL works or does not, other than the EMC issues. Speaking from that EMC perspective, it is clear to me that the rules as written by the FCC do not address the interference issue. Those companies that have worked cooperatively with ARRL are doing more than those rules require and have avoided inteference to Amateur Radio (orm making progress to do so.) Those that choose confrontation over cooperation are contributing to the very factors that made is necessary for Sumner to criticize the FCC. CTCEO's premise that because you are a ham, your judgement must be clouded is a mantra that has not worked well for the industry, and the more successful companies within it have abandoned that approach, usually years ago... Indeed, had the BPL industry's approach been somewhat more collaborative and open from the outset, the situation would no doubt be better today. It is ludicrous for them to assume that their assertions will not be challenged in a public forum such as this and then to counter with the argument that our arguments are invalid based on sterotypical assumptions of who we are and what we know or don't know!
I concur in having no interest in the success or failure of BPL: only its interference potential is of concern to me. It is sad to see that (at least in this forum) there are still those who either remain in denial regarding interference or, while accepting that it exists, dismiss it as of no consequence while meanwhile, the FCC does little or nothing to protect licensed spectrum users, including those in Briarcliffe Manor and Manassas who, no doubt are "in error" and simply need a BPL industry media consultant to explain things to them better/again | |
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