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The Hunt For Bright House Fiber In Florida
'You Want It, We've Got It,' Company Says Of Fiber
by Karl Bode 09:00AM Friday Feb 04 2011
We've talked for years about how a large number of companies (from Time Warner Cable to Qwest) that can't or won't pay for fiber to the home do the next best thing -- lie to customers and pretend that core network fiber is the same as last mile fiber. A marketing distortion is certainly less expensive than a fiber build, and conveniently most consumers don't even know what a gigabyte is -- much less the difference between fiber optics and coaxial. Stop The Cap directs our attention that Bright House Networks is latest ISP to employ this tactic, the company telling Daytona newspapers anybody who wants fiber can get it -- because Bright House has plenty:
quote:
Donald Forbes, senior director of corporate communications for Bright House, was more emphatic about the lack of a need for another fiber network in the county. "We have miles and miles of fiber-optic lines in Volusia County," Forbes said. "Where anyone is willing to do business with us, we can make it happen . . . You want it, we've got it."
Some are even being told Bright House offers 1 Gbps fiber. Bright House of course offers no such thing for residential service, but the do offer it to a few business customers -- in a few markets -- maybe. Where Bright House does offer fiber to businesses it apparently comes at a steep penalty, though oddly this service doesn't appear to be advertised -- and Bright House doesn't say how much it costs. The service also isn't showing up on state broadband mapping results despite those efforts being that of Connected Nation (though their mapping appears geared toward residential only):
quote:
Only a small portion of the state -- around Orlando and to the south, and around Tampa and along the surrounding Gulf Coast -- has fiber coverage, according to Connected Nation's survey results. Jessica Ditto, Connected Nation communications director, said the map only reflects spots where fiber-optic lines run to homes, and that Bright House might not have responded accurately to the survey. Bright House's Forbes said he hadn't heard of Connected Nation.
The paper kind of stumbles over and around the fact that the company has conflated last mile and core network fiber -- and business fiber with residential cable -- to prevent a local Volusia County effort to wire the community with a less expensive fiber option and to fight Verizon FiOS in the Tampa market. Stop The Cap took things one step further, and called Bright House posing as a business customer in pursuit of this mystery fiber. A company rep gets a little bit closer to the truth when pushed, but then oddly insists they don't actually offer fiber to businesses or anybody else. Which is ok, they say, because nobody wants fiber anyway, it's unproven, and it's too expensive:
quote:
Bright House: We do run a fiber network, but it’s a special kind known as a hybrid fiber/coax network. That is the most proven technology out there, installed to millions of homes and businesses across the country for more than a decade.

STC: Then all-fiber networks are unproven?

Bright House: In a way, yes. But more important, they are enormously expensive.

STC: How expensive?

Bright House: We spent millions on ours.

STC: So you are saying if we wanted Bright House to deliver fiber to our business, it would cost millions?

Bright House: Probably not that much, but it would probably be a waste of money because it was so expensive. We service business customers all over central Florida, and I’ll be honest none of them really need fiber — it would be a waste of money. We couldn’t even give you a price for fiber because nobody ever asked us before.
Since Bright House does offer some fiber to businesses they'll likely get away with the distortion, which in this case isn't as severe as others we've seen but is still par for the course. Conflating core fiber and last mile fiber has become a marketing move du jour -- especially by cable companies in Verizon FiOS markets. In most of these cases (usually dealing with residential fiber claims) the most that happens anyway is that the faux-fiber company involved get their wrists slapped by the self-regulatory National Advertising Division of the Better Business Bureau. A company can ignore NAD's criticisms about this, in which case the complaint is sent to the FTC for the agency to act on (or not act on, as the case usually is).

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hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

BH is correct

They are correct- anyone who wants to do business with them CAN get FTTH Fiber. It's just at a price. They're not lying. Nor is any company that claims that.
cooldude9919

join:2000-05-29
kudos:5

1 edit

1 recommendation

Re: BH is correct

Agreed. See my post over at stop the cap as well, ill repost it here as well. Read the article clearly and it mentions fiber to the BUSINESS several times. Nowhere does it mention FTTH, which karl somewhat implies in his article by mentioning previous postings about residential advertisements. I hate shady advertising as much as the next guy and think those that do it should be called out on it. I also think those calling them out should provide accurate information.

Post from STC

Bright House does sell fiber internet services at least to businesses, our business has it Indianapolis and possibily in Orlando at a new location. Most cable MSO’s sell fiber based services to businesses since they already have fiber in the market due to the coax/fiber nature of their business, but there isnt really a set rate. Each pricing is based on construction charges, speed, and length of contract. We have fiber services from the following cable companies;

Charter
Time Warner Cable
Brigthouse Networks
Comcast
Mediacom
Cox

Pricing certianly doesnt compare to a community type fiber offering such as LUS, but it is normally better than pricing from AT&T for similar speed T1/Fiber offerings. Ive seen pricing anywhere from $600 for 10mbps, $800 for 15mbps/15mbps to $850 for 5mbps/5mbps.

When you called into bright house you probably got to a normal business account rep. You would nee to talk to a “Dedicated Access Account Executive” in the “Enterprise Services” level. They would have to do a site survey of your “location” before giving for a firm price. Obviously the account person you spoke to didnt really know what they where talking about.

I support community fiber offerings 100% and we even have it from a local power company in paducah ky and i would love to get it more places if i could, but most of the time we have to settle for something else.

FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

Re: BH is correct

said by cooldude9919:

Most cable MSO’s sell fiber based services to businesses since they already have fiber in the market due to the coax/fiber nature of their business, but there isnt really a set rate. Each pricing is based on construction charges, speed, and length of contract. We have fiber services from the following cable companies;

Charter
Time Warner Cable
Brigthouse Networks
Comcast
Mediacom
Cox

Businesses, at least in major metro areas, have been able to negotiate deals to bring fiber to a building for at least the last 20 yrs. First from telcos and then from cable companies as well. But there is no price chart. All these deals are negotiated contracts with SLAs and penalties for non-compliance.

Other than Verizon Fios, some municipal systems, and some greenfield developments, FTTH with standardized price sheets is still a long way from being available. And as long as HFC systems can potentially deliver 100 Mbps to a residence at a cheaper cost than FTTH, then FTTH will rollout slowly.

Rob
In Deo speramus.
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
kudos:3
said by hottboiinnc:

They are correct- anyone who wants to do business with them CAN get FTTH Fiber. It's just at a price. They're not lying. Nor is any company that claims that.

That's how I read it as well.
--
CheckSite.us | YourIP.us | Reverseip.us
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: BH is correct

but as long as its not FTTH or a Muni nobody cares nor publishes correctly.

Jim Kirk
Premium
join:2005-12-09

1 recommendation

Re: BH is correct

biochemistry
Premium
join:2003-05-09
92361
I'm sure that anybody living in a trailer park in their coverage area that wants FTTH can get it. Note, the quote does not state only businesses can get it but that anyone who wants to do business with them. Residential customers do business with them by buying their product.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: BH is correct

very true! anyone that wants to spend the money can get it. and BH and the rest of the MSOs will NEVER turn down someone's $$$$
jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04
USA
BH didn't say that...
bn1221

join:2009-04-29
Cortland, NY
Reviews:
·TowerStream
I have 10Mbit fiber here at 1250 a month. Cheaper than bonded t1s and Verizon hates my area so no D3 and no FiOS. I'm not sure D3 though would support as many connections as I have. Plus you're still HFC and the nodes are not on redundant power like the fibers are.

ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Yes, and if someone REALLY wanted to pay for a 2.2Gbps connection from Verizon, they can have that too. Just at a price, of course.
Joe12345678

join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL

wow clams to be building fiber systems in Rolling Meadows IL

WOW! will soon be beginning construction of a new state-of-the-art fiber optic systems in Rolling Meadows in 2011.

»www.wowway.com/event/module/modu···ingSoon/

but the rest of the Chicago land systems are hybrid fiber-coaxial
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: wow clams to be building fiber systems in Rolling Meadows IL

and it is a fiber system it has Fiber to the node and ANYONE can purchase Fiber to the building as long as they have the $$$$. Why can't anyone on here get this except a small hand few???!?!?!
Expand your moderator at work

Twaddle

@sbcglobal.net

Let's play word games!

Yes maybe this company does offer Fiber to the Business via a hybrid fiber/coaxial system or maybe just maybe they will build a fiber pipe from the business without use of a coaxial cable link. I think the point is that this company as with other companies, are inferring that they offer something that they really can't or won't offer at the prices they advertise. It's like selling a Chevy disguised as a Ferrari. On the outside it appears to be a Ferrari but you pop the hood and you see that under all the glitter the engine is just a worn-out Chevy 4 banger. When I sell my product I have to back it up with the truth or my ass is in a sling with the law. Unfortunately what laws that are on the books to protect the consumer, be it a business or a private citizen, are either not enforced or worthless lip service is paid.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: Let's play word games!

BH WILL SELL YOU FTTH/B if you pay $$$$ for it. They will to anyone in their service area. It is available just have to call the Business Department for it.

actualbusown

@verizon.net

Re: Let's play word games!

Not true, My business pays Verizon for a dedicated DS3 and 2 Fios 150/35 services. We contacted BH to provide Fiber to us and we were declined and advised that it could not be provided. We are located in Clearwater Florida. So Verizon is the only player willing to bring Fiber directly to my business.
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3

Re: Let's play word games!

Fiber can be offered to any business customer willing to pay the price. This is true... it's a construction cost from the nearest plant to the business. This will include all the permitting costs, construction, and plant redesign. Then too, if they're not able to get plant to you for any blocks THEY face, then of course your location would be considered "un-serviceable" just like anything else. There are going to be limitations. I don't believe that anything was printed as "we GUARANTEE that we can provide fiber"..
oneacn
Hello

join:2001-05-03
Polk City, FL

Bright House & Fiber Polk City, FL

I find this real funny because for the last 4 years Brighthouse has said they were going to expand to my area and subdivisions here, they then called me and said here is the price for us to build, they wanted me to pay $250,000.00 for an AMP, a Node and 5 Miles of Fiber.

Something seems wrong with this picture

Ken
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3

Re: Bright House & Fiber Polk City, FL

.. yea, there's something wrong. I'm sure they didn't shop around very well. I'm sure they missed Walmart and Amazon.com for nodes and fiber cable - they could have saved a fortune and passed on the savings.
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS

merry go round..

the basics are: speed, quality of service and price...
sure, if you can deliver 100/100 symmetric with 100% uptime qos guarantee for a lower price under docsis than fiber, by all means.. select the chocie that's right & cheaper. brighthouse does not serve tens of millions of customers beyond Floridia.. if they did, they'd REALLY see how difficult a job to make an all fiber network would be. Verizon isn't stupid for cherry picking it's customers when the upgrades cost BILLIONS... however, they've got a network in place for the next 20+ years. perhaps wireless will become as robust, that remains to be proven as well.

the truth is docsis is cheaper for more than the face value of deployment coax vs fiber. in reality, the labor is about the same price.. the cost of the fiber is negligably higher priced, but a "cable internet" plant is also managed differently for business vs residential customers. business customers can select from two, and sometimes 3 levels of QOS.. obviously with different price quotes. most cable companies leverage existing coax in the field. to overlay and/or replace that with fiber would be kind of expensive and the uncertainty of a big fish such as Verizon or AT&T invading their market is a not too distant possibility.

Bright house would like to scoop up that monthly fee with a fishing line (coax), rather than a demolition ball grade steel cable (fiber). Any company using twine (copper pair dsl) such as AT&T/ Qwest will have to eventually spend more and more money to fend off competition & manage customer churn rates (should there actually be real competition in those markets)
botld92z9

join:2006-07-14
Winter Springs, FL
kudos:1

1 recommendation

wow.

I really hope Karl isn't paid for writing articles. Attacking BH for allegedly skewing their advertising when in reality this article ranks as one of the most ridiculous things I've read in a long time.

I've never seen BH advertise fiber to the home. I also know of a handful of business acquaintances in many different areas of Central Florida who have fiber to their building provided by BH. If you're willing to pay for it, regardless of whether you are a residential or business customer, you can get fiber to your building. It will fall under a business class agreement and you'll be under their business class service (quicker response for service, a dedicated account rep, an SLA).

The best part is that you went into a chat session with someone off their website who is paid $13/hr to answer general billing and tech questions and then quoted them in your article.

Lmao, what a joke.
FloridaBoy

join:2009-06-22
Bradenton, FL

1 recommendation

Re: wow.

said by botld92z9:

I've never seen BH advertise fiber to the home. I also know of a handful of business acquaintances in many different areas of Central Florida who have fiber to their building provided by BH.

So, when that Brighthouse Truck goes by with the words, "Florida's Fiber Leader", what are they trying to say then??

Bob Elek

@verizon.com

Bright House and fiber

This is Bob Elek with Verizon in Florida. Great post - we've been dealing with this sort of disingenuous treatment of their fiber/coax network since we introduced the FiOS all fiber network in the Tampa Bay area in 2005. Today, over 1.1 million premises - 39 percent of which are small businesses - can order FiOS broadband service with nothing more than a phone call. That call can net them standalone Internet service with 150/35 Mbps for a monthly price of $229.99. Take it with a two-year contract and the price drops to $204.99...and add voice services and it's even lower. You don't have to take the top tier - there are other speeds as well. And that's not just Florida - businesses in 11 other states and D.C. can get the same thing. This is outside of the extensive fiber we've had for long-haul and larger business applications since the '90s. Today small businesses need the capacity as badly as large enterprises - and nothing gives you that like a pure fiber connection to the home or business.

BHNtechXpert
BHN Staff
Premium,VIP
join:2006-02-16
Saint Petersburg, FL
kudos:140

2 edits

Re: Bright House and fiber

said by Bob Elek :

This is Bob Elek with Verizon in Florida. Great post - we've been dealing with this sort of disingenuous treatment of their fiber/coax network since we introduced the FiOS all fiber network in the Tampa Bay area in 2005. Today, over 1.1 million premises - 39 percent of which are small businesses - can order FiOS broadband service with nothing more than a phone call. That call can net them standalone Internet service with 150/35 Mbps for a monthly price of $229.99. Take it with a two-year contract and the price drops to $204.99...and add voice services and it's even lower. You don't have to take the top tier - there are other speeds as well. And that's not just Florida - businesses in 11 other states and D.C. can get the same thing. This is outside of the extensive fiber we've had for long-haul and larger business applications since the '90s. Today small businesses need the capacity as badly as large enterprises - and nothing gives you that like a pure fiber connection to the home or business.

Yawn...geez look what the cat drug in. Sniff sniff...stinks too

Verizon (especially this clown Elek) pointing the disingenuous finger at anyone is enough to make me fall out of my chair laughing. Shall I list all the ways Verizon engages in this activity on a daily basis? Do you really want me to go there?

And you were saying what now?

Noah Vail
Son made my Avatar
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Bright House

Re: Bright House and fiber

said by BHNtechXpert:

Yawn...geez look what the cat drug in. Sniff sniff...stinks too

Verizon (especially this clown Elek) pointing the disingenuous finger at anyone is enough to make me fall out of my chair laughing. Shall I list all the ways Verizon engages in this activity on a daily basis? Do you really want me to go there?

And you were saying what now?

With respect:
He was proactively listing Verizon's offerings. You... did not.

I came looking for a post from you. One where you'd list some of Brighthouse's Fiber-to-the-endpoint offerings - in detail.
Offerings that would be available to most WCF BH customers.

In light of my expectations, I found your response disappointing.

NV

BHNtechXpert
BHN Staff
Premium,VIP
join:2006-02-16
Saint Petersburg, FL
kudos:140

4 edits

Re: Bright House and fiber

said by Noah Vail:

said by BHNtechXpert:

Yawn...geez look what the cat drug in. Sniff sniff...stinks too

Verizon (especially this clown Elek) pointing the disingenuous finger at anyone is enough to make me fall out of my chair laughing. Shall I list all the ways Verizon engages in this activity on a daily basis? Do you really want me to go there?

And you were saying what now?

With respect:
He was proactively listing Verizon's offerings. You... did not.

I came looking for a post from you. One where you'd list some of Brighthouse's Fiber-to-the-endpoint offerings - in detail.
Offerings that would be available to most WCF BH customers.

In light of my expectations, I found your response disappointing.

NV

Sorry I failed to live up to your expectations Noah. What did you expect me to say? That the original article at "Stop the Cap" was a load of crap, full of half truths, reckless conclusions and clearly smacked of an ulterior motive and was communicated with such sarcasim that it's hard to grasp what the real intent of the article was.

Or maybe it was that Karl with his copycat post here at DSLR had been nothing less than a willing sock puppet who didn't bother to fact check before writing his post? Maybe it was that Karl (like the original editor) didn't want to hear the truth because it does nothing to further their well known agenda that being muni based fiber paid for by a public wallet that no longer contains any cash?

Happy now Noah? Honestly if you must know the truth neither the original article nor Karls failed attempt at a copy were worthy of much comment. I saw them for what they were and had planned to leave it alone. But since you asked...

Noah you also fail to realize I'm here to help people with their broadband technology issues and to have a good time now and again. The arguments raised in the original article and Karls post are things that frankly I could care less about. I don't care whether I have fiber to the house or coax...just so long as I have a reasonable speed up/down and it's reliable...all of those things I have right now with my coax connection thank you very much.

Cheers!

DonaldForbes

@mybrighthouse.com

Perhaps this will help clarify:

Bright House Networks does in fact provide Fiber to the Premise (FTTP) – or what is known in the business services market as “dedicated access” – to its business customers who want this type of bandwidth. We work directly with our business customers to provide solutions tailored to meet their specific needs. We currently serve more than 3,000 Florida business locations directly with fiber. We currently offer speeds up to 1 Gbps, although it should be understood most business customers do not require 1Gbps speeds. Residential customers, at this time, do not need the bandwidth offered with dedicated fiber – however, Bright House has led the industry in comprehensively deploying next-generation bandwidth services (DOCSIS 3.0) to its’ entire footprint in Florida – current speeds offered are 50 Mbps with the ability to offer much higher. We provision our network according to our customers’ needs.
As a private company, we do reserve the right to share specific proprietary details of our network and our business for competitive reasons. However, it is no secret that we offer the above services.

While it’s disappointing that Bright House was not approached by Mr. Bode in an effort to fact check his article for accuracy, we’d welcome speaking with him directly to help set the record straight.”
tdar

join:2004-04-05
Satellite Beach, FL
kudos:1

2 edits

Re: Perhaps this will help clarify:

Dear Mr. Forbes:

As a BrightHouse central Florida customer I'd like to add this: What would truly be nice is if you, and the others in your industry, would stop saying this: "Residential customers, at this time, do not need the bandwidth offered with dedicated fiber". Please do not tell us what we need. This is that same type of thinking of that famous quote from the former chairman of ATT, who said that none of us needed more than 6MBs. Some of us have more advanced needs than others of us. Why can we not be the judge of what we need in the fashion that was provided by the Verizon gentleman above your post. I'd love to have the 150MBs service he offers in Tampa here on the East coast. DO you offer it at the same type of price level he does? I think the answer is no. Your company JUST began to offer 40MBs here.

Now don't get me wrong, for the most part most of us who are BrightHouse customers are happy with our service. But I think we all understand what it is that Karl was saying in his News posting.
Dampier
Phillip M Dampier

join:2003-03-23
Rochester, NY

1 edit
said by DonaldForbes :

Bright House Networks does in fact provide Fiber to the Premise (FTTP) – or what is known in the business services market as “dedicated access” – to its business customers who want this type of bandwidth. We work directly with our business customers to provide solutions tailored to meet their specific needs.

While it’s disappointing that Bright House was not approached by Mr. Bode in an effort to fact check his article for accuracy, we’d welcome speaking with him directly to help set the record straight.”

Before speaking with Mr. Bode, speak to your own representatives who man the phones at 1-877-424-9246. That's your business class inquiry line, the one we used when we called Bright House yesterday about this.

It's a big secret to them, because they didn't say a word about dedicated fiber access, and pushed for traditional hybrid fiber-coax, even when we asked about fiber directly.

I think the other point of interest is that Bright House has said residential customers "don't need" fiber, something Verizon and municipal providers would disagree with.

We wanted to fact check the claims made by one party in the Daytona newspaper about fiber being hard to get and not advertised. We called and the result we published. If I was running a Florida business and wanted true fiber access, the representative we reached would have not been able to help us and in fact made it plainly clear it's not necessary to have it in the first place.
--
Phillip M. Dampier
Editor, Stop the Cap!
»stopthecap.com
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY

where & how much?

verizon clarified about where & how much fios is available for...

brighthouse? (what would for example 150/35mbits fiber dedicated pipe cost stand-alone) in overlapping markets

Noah Vail
Son made my Avatar
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Bright House

Re: where & how much?

said by tmc8080:

verizon clarified about where & how much fios is available for...

brighthouse? (what would for example 150/35mbits fiber dedicated pipe cost stand-alone) in overlapping markets

A consistent Brighthouse shortcoming is their near complete failure to proactively list their pricing online.

Though I'm an outspoken BH advocate, this bit of obsessive control on their part is fully pointless.

NV

BHNtechXpert
BHN Staff
Premium,VIP
join:2006-02-16
Saint Petersburg, FL
kudos:140

Re: where & how much?

said by Noah Vail:

said by tmc8080:

verizon clarified about where & how much fios is available for...

brighthouse? (what would for example 150/35mbits fiber dedicated pipe cost stand-alone) in overlapping markets

A consistent Brighthouse shortcoming is their near complete failure to proactively list their pricing online.

Though I'm an outspoken BH advocate, this bit of obsessive control on their part is fully pointless.

NV

Noah no provider these days lists their complete offering prices online these days (and yea that also includes Verizon). Someone else brought this issue up a while back and I did a pretty decent check of all the local providers (and some not so local). Getting such lists was extremely difficult. There is no doubt a marketing reason behind it and they all seem to be doing it to some degree. Am I losing any sleep over it...nope.
Randall_Lind

join:2004-01-24
Saint Petersburg, FL

ROFL

So I guess my TV isn't fiber either So much for the words on the truck. They should says We have a fiber network for a price ( in which we can't tell because no one has ever asked us before) ROFL