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story category The Internet Is Broken, Now Buy My Magic Solution
Arpanet designer Larry Roberts still pushing new router technology...
04:09PM Wednesday Jul 15 2009 by Karl Bode
tags: business · hardware · networking
Larry Roberts, a team member on the original Arpanet, has been complaining that the Internet has been "broken," for a while. He's been doing this because, as we've noted for several years now, he's been trying to sell new flow routing technology for his company, Anagran. Techdirt notes that Roberts is back again in an article for PC Authority, still insisting several years later that the Internet will break any day now, and still pushing flow control technology he claims will keep the 'Net from imploding:
"Directing traffic in terms of flows rather than individual packets improves the utilization of networks. By eliminating the excessive delays and random packet losses typical of traditional routers, flow management fills communication links with more data and protects voice and video streams. And it does all that without requiring changes to the time-tested TCP/IP protocol."
As Techdirt laments, nobody at PC Authority bothers to get a second opinion on the state of the Internet's health, and the bit reads more like a press release than a news report. Roberts' Arpanet credibility apparently has very long legs, as every time he pulls the "Internet is broken" sales pitch out of his bag, numerous news outlets treat his pronouncements as revolutionary and new, whether it's true or not.

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Forums » The Internet Is Broken, Now Buy My Magic Solution
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sayitaintso

@comcast.net

it's not the internet whose broken its the press & the govt

i worked in large company, we used to heavily advertise in all major publications in our industry where we used to buy 12 months at a time, mostly inner front covers and back covers.

what i learned is basically if you bought the back page, you also bought the front page, we paid authors to write the content we wanted and we bought editing rights.

so when you read the nice review, that nice article about some hot new thingy, watch out!

cameronsfx

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Re: it's not the internet whose broken its the press & the govt


This Guy
Isn't that Ted "Tubes" Stevens?

"You see the Internet is a series of tubes. And those Tubes get clogged. But, with my Tube idea, they never get clogged."

What is this man really thinking?

"Yes, I'm old. I'm an old, crusty geezer. I don't even know how to use a computer. But, I have a patent. I'm also a highly respected engineer who can't use a toaster oven. I even taught at Harvard tell they told me they don't use pen and paper anymore. I was shocked. Shocked I tell ya. Shocked. They have fancy computers for studying. I used books. Now they have this Kindle thing. I remember writing papers with pen and paper. Margins had to be perfect. But, I got rich. Inheritance. Like my suit? It's from the 1960s. Italian made. Cost $250. I still use Vitalis for my hair. I shop at dollar stores and buy no name brand food. YES, BUT I HAVE THE SOLUTION TO THE INTERNET PROBLEM! I got the idea watching Back to the Future on my Betamax."

baineschile
2600
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Green

I thought it was ralph nader when i first saw the picture.
wentlanc
You Can't Fix Dumb..

join:2003-07-30
Maineville, OH

What about CRC?

CRC checking, and retransmissions were built into the protocol to ensure reliable data structure. It seems that breaking those checks sets you up for a possibility of issues over unstable links. I believe you could actually cause higher load of traffic if you have to retransmit an entire flow, instead of a single packet. I'd like to see how they handle that.

cw
DarkLogix

join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX

Re: What about CRC?

its been done
read the Ars artical on this
Cisco has built and sold Flow based routing.switching hardware before

NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
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join:2004-09-30
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This guy smokes some good stuff.

I'm not sure what crack this guys is smoking but MPLS is flows based and it's already dominant with large bulk carriers. Were not going to ditch billions in investments just to switch to something we already have.
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ender7074

join:2006-11-21
Saint Louis, MO

Uh Oh!

He'd better watch out. Al Gore doesn't like it when people knock his inventions like the internet and global warming.
--
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DarkLogix

join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX

Re: Uh Oh!

Ya next think you know we'll have a Cap and Network bill in congress
kieranmullen
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Al Gore can take credit for WMD's too.
2-17-98

News Video of former Vice President Al Gore misleading the public about Iraqs Weapons Of Mass Destruction capabilities.Fear mongering was used throughout the eight year reign of the Clinton Administration so the Democrats set the stage for both 911 and the Iraq war long before George W. ...

»www.liveleak.com/view?i=a6d_1247512392
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KieranMullen »360oregon.com
amungus
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1 edit

Interesting thoughts

This quote towards the end of the article is interesting:
"Instead he suggests viewing data flows are a contiguous unit for some applications"
Well, yes, that's the idea; in the analog realm, a "flow" of video, or audio is exactly that - contiguous - by definition.

Throwing what is originally an analog piece of material onto a data network, into many small pieces, possibly out of order, not arriving on time, etc. makes for an interesting situation. In many cases, it works because as he mentioned, carriers have enough capacity. Data can be passed fast enough to be buffered, re-assembled, and presented in an analog (contiguous) fashion. ...Your Netflix movie plays smoothly, and/or your music doesn't skip...

I see potential, but I have to wonder about many of the details.
Also, as others have mentioned - other companies have done some similar things. Wonder how it stacks up, if it's compatible, etc. etc. etc... Obviously people won't ditch something they've already invested in if it works. This would have to be very compatible, and if it had anything else going for it, would still have to be compatible on a basic level (sounds like it is...).

Neat stuff, even if it does sound like a PR piece.

---
EDIT
...Oh, and BTW, TCP/IP is a suite of protocols

Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus

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Re: Interesting thoughts


Larry Roberts

Chicken Little
Is it just me or is there a family resemblance?

ROFLCONer

@telus.net

Re: Interesting thoughts

HAHAHA ya when it comes to old/CEO type people i have little faith in their view of how the world(internet) should work....
Metatron2008

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How much has this guy worked on since arpanet?

I'd like to know that before hearing anymore from him. Arpanet is extremelly out of date compared to what the internet can do.

It's like creating the Pentium Pro (Which core 2 duos use the archetecture) and then saying a Core 2 duo isn't good enough for today!

mod_wastrel

join:2008-03-28

Imperfect?... yes.

Broken?... not so much. His solution may improve routing (or not), but will it matter enough to justify a revamp? (don't know, not really that concerned)

I'll leave it up to the network mgr. and Purchasing.
progrocktv

join:2009-04-27

WHAT?

The Internet is broken?!?!?!

ALRIGHT, who Googled "google"?!?!?!
me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO

Re: WHAT?

I lol'd...

And »lmgtfy.com/?q=Google

JonZ
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1 edit
Maybe it was Xzibit

backfeed
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said by progrocktv See Profile :

The Internet is broken?!?!?!

ALRIGHT, who Googled "google"?!?!?!
That is like putting mirror on the copy machine...man, I thought everybody knew not to do that!!! ROFLMAO!!!!
--
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carolx79

join:2007-05-04
Frankfort, IN

Re: WHAT?

LMAF now thats funny.

ARGONAUT
got ping?

join:2006-01-24
New Albany, IN
The Internetz is just fine. "The porn is flowing as scheduled"

KrK
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Click for full size

moddestmike

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said by progrocktv See Profile :

The Internet is broken?!?!?!

ALRIGHT, who Googled "google"?!?!?!
This is what happens when you divide by zero.

SuperJoker

join:2005-11-21
Yermo, CA

Shields Up, RED Alert!

The Klingons are coming, The Klingons are coming, Yeah Right and I'm their worst nightmare, a mean low down stinkin Tribble. Phazers are locked on target and ready to fire...

n2jtx

join:2001-01-13
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·Optimum Online

IEEE

The July issue of IEEE's Spectrum covered the same topic. One does come away with the thought that it was more of a sales pitch than a news story. I guess the same thing happened with PC Authority.
--
I support the right to keep and arm bears.
cornelius785

join:2006-10-26
Worcester, MA

Re: IEEE

I also came across the IEEE article. It did seem like it was more of seeling his product/idea for money. I also got a chuckle out of the diagram illustrating the idea from: only p2p packets get dropped and voice and web packet magically increase by a factor of 2.

we all know that p2p is bad all the time and clogs all of the internets' tubes (sarcasm).

If he was out to improve the internet, he'd write a couple conference papers or journal articles outlining the whole thing (why do it, how to do, benchmark it, and compare to existing or newly proposed methods), instead an artilce that reads like a sales brochure is created.

Hpower
Roflmao

join:2000-06-08
Glendale, CA
·Charter Pipeline

Smoke much?

This guy must smoke some crazy stuff saying he has the solution to the broken internet. I laughed at the part where he said he doesn't know how to use a computer but has the solution to the broken internet. Hmmmm.....mmkkay....? lol
--
The Internet is about to go down....it is actually.
cornelius785

join:2006-10-26
Worcester, MA

I wouldn't consider it broken

But I think it could be more efficient to allow for better end user performance allow for packets that are time sensitive (VoIP, gaming, real time video, and the like) be pushed over packets that aren't (streaming video, mass data transfers, etc.). With this approach i'd be concern that some packets would be dropped intentionally.
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