 raye
Premium
join:2000-08-14
Orange, CA
| A warrant is not needed? Seems to me if there is evidence of terrorist communication in a specific band of IP addresses, obtaining a warrant would not be a problem if I am a U.S. citizen. Even if I am not, getting a warrant should be trivial. Not getting one is just plain lazy, to say the least | |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·Comcast
| Re: A warrant is not needed? said by raye  :Seems to me if there is evidence of terrorist communication in a specific band of IP addresses, obtaining a warrant would not be a problem if I am a U.S. citizen. Even if I am not, getting a warrant should be trivial. Not getting one is just plain lazy, to say the least They got the warrant and the collection is under court supervision:
It's employed when police have obtained a court order and an Internet service provider can't "isolate the particular person or IP address" because of technical constraints.
"In the event the intercepted communication is in a code or foreign language, and an expert in that foreign language or code is not reasonably available during the interception period, minimization may be accomplished as soon as practicable after such interception."
Downing, the assistant deputy chief at the Justice Department's computer crime section, pointed to that language on Friday. Because digital communications amount to a foreign language or code, he said, federal agents are legally permitted to record everything and sort through it later.
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My BLOG
My Web Page | |
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MysticGogeta
The Robot Devil
Premium
join:2005-03-14
League City, TX
clubs:
·Comcast
| Of corse its illegal do they care? No. They only do what most of us would do. Because its their job and they get paid just like every one else. Is it wrong? Yes but I believe sometimes its necessary to do things to prevent a terrorist or a psychotic killer or a sexual predator from running loose on the internet.
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Team Discovery-Join the fight | |
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ronpin
Imagine Reality
join:2002-12-06
Nirvana
 ·AT&T Southwest
1 edit | Look at your Cell Phone... Most of us carry an open mic for the FBI -- right in our shirt pockets. Turning on your cell phone remotely is trivial -- and AT&T has given the feds carte-blanche to do it anytime. 1984 was 20 years late. »news.com.com/2100-1029-6140191.html
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America has been hijacked by selfish nationalist corporate pigs. The whole world hates us now. Have a nice day. | |
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| | Cod
join:2000-07-05
Greensboro, NC
| Re: Look at your Cell Phone... said by ronpin :Most of us carry an open mic for the FBI -- right in our shirt pockets. Turning on your cell phone remotely is trivial -- and AT&T has given the feds carte-blanche to do it anytime. 1984 was 20 years late. » news.com.com/2100-1029-6140191.html Your quoted article mentions nothing of at&t but instead Nextel and the first sentence says "and was approved by top U.S. Department of Justice officials". How does at&t have anything to do with this? | |
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ronpin
Imagine Reality
join:2002-12-06
Nirvana
·AT&T Southwest
| Re: Look at your Cell Phone... said by Cod :Your quoted article mentions nothing of at&t but instead Nextel and the first sentence says "and was approved by top U.S. Department of Justice officials". How does at&t have anything to do with this? If you read the article more closely you'll note that Moto Razr phones are cited. Nextel has no Razr phones. Couple that with AT&T's NSA friendly "open database" -- and you'll see how simple it is for the Feds to access your cell phone. In 1996 I used to watch pager text messages flow across a certain companies admin desk. I know it'd be even easier to open your cell phone mic (you sound offended for AT&T?)
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America has been hijacked by selfish nationalist corporate pigs. The whole world hates us now. Have a nice day. | |
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join:2000-07-05
Greensboro, NC
2 edits | Re: Look at your Cell Phone... said by ronpin :If you read the article more closely you'll note that Moto Razr phones are cited. Nextel has no Razr phones. Couple that with AT&T's NSA friendly "open database" -- and you'll see how simple it is for the Feds to access your cell phone. So basically you are going on a conspiracy theory then, correct?
And you conveniently forgot to address: "...and was approved by top U.S. Department of Justice officials..." | |
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ronpin
Imagine Reality
join:2002-12-06
Nirvana
·AT&T Southwest
| Re: Look at your Cell Phone... said by Cod :And you conveniently forgot to address: "...and was approved by top U.S. Department of Justice officials..." I kindly opted not to inform you that Attny. Gen. Gonzales is in trouble for that very thing. WARRANTS are required from a judge -- not "top U.S. Department of Justice officials". That's what the whole NSA illegal wiretapping snafu is all about (please don't make me spoon-feed you)
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America has been hijacked by selfish nationalist corporate pigs. The whole world hates us now. Have a nice day. | |
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| | | | | | Cod
join:2000-07-05
Greensboro, NC
| Re: Look at your Cell Phone... said by ronpin :said by Cod :And you conveniently forgot to address: "...and was approved by top U.S. Department of Justice officials..." I kindly opted not to inform you that Attny. Gen. Gonzales is in trouble for that very thing. WARRANTS are required from a judge -- not "top U.S. Department of Justice officials". That's what the whole NSA illegal wiretapping snafu is all about (please don't make me spoon-feed you) So the whole Nextel cell article you quoted saying as fact that it was at&t is actually a conspiracy theory of yours. Well done. Join the other 80% of BBR members spreading FUD here. | |
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ronpin
Imagine Reality
join:2002-12-06
Nirvana
·AT&T Southwest
1 edit | Re: Look at your Cell Phone... said by Cod : ..I sure hope they don't pay you for this (deflecting facts to "conspiracies" is a bit sophomoric yes?)
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America has been hijacked by selfish nationalist corporate pigs. The whole world hates us now. Have a nice day. | |
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| | | | | | Asmodeus
join:2004-05-26
Spring Valley, CA
| said by ronpin :said by Cod :And you conveniently forgot to address: "...and was approved by top U.S. Department of Justice officials..." I kindly opted not to inform you that Attny. Gen. Gonzales is in trouble for that very thing. WARRANTS are required from a judge -- not "top U.S. Department of Justice officials". That's what the whole NSA illegal wiretapping snafu is all about (please don't make me spoon-feed you) makes me long for the days of attorney general john ashcroft... | |
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AnonDOG
@freeantennas.com
| quote:
In 1996 I used to watch pager text messages flow across a certain companies admin desk.
Digital pager traffic is protected under the same statute that cellular telephone traffic is protected.
Therefore we must assume that you had a Title-III to monitor that pager traffic? If you didn't it might not be prudent to talk too loudly about it.  | |
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ronpin
Imagine Reality
join:2002-12-06
Nirvana
·AT&T Southwest
2 edits | Re: Look at your Cell Phone... said by AnonDOG :Digital pager traffic is protected under the same statute that cellular telephone traffic is protected. Therefore we must assume that you had a Title-III to monitor that pager traffic? If you didn't it might not be prudent to talk too loudly about it. Part of my job was to verify the integrity of the text messages (i.e. garbled or not) As long as nobody recorded them we were within normal maint. guidelines. We never saw any ID's either(there were some funny pages though -- like "your wife is on to us...")
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America has been hijacked by selfish nationalist corporate pigs. The whole world hates us now. Have a nice day. | |
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AnonDOG
@kaballero.com
| Re: Look at your Cell Phone... quote:
Part of my job was to verify the integrity of the text messages (i.e. garbled or not) As long as nobody recorded them we were within normal maint. guidelines.
... ah ...
The maintenance exclusion, yes I know that one. Very well. I always found it interesting that that exclusion existed. You are golden so long as you don't document in any way the content of the communications.
BTW, are we children? I hear a gnat whining something about children. | |
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| | | | | Asmodeus
join:2004-05-26
Spring Valley, CA
| said by AnonDOG : quote:
In 1996 I used to watch pager text messages flow across a certain companies admin desk.
Digital pager traffic is protected under the same statute that cellular telephone traffic is protected. Therefore we must assume that you had a Title-III to monitor that pager traffic? If you didn't it might not be prudent to talk too loudly about it. it all comes down to who can sell the interpretive value of any of these statutes in order to obtain a warrant or proceed without one... you guys are to busy trying to be the 'letter of the law' hall monitors and it's failing and it makes you look childish... i can see most of you now, "BUT THE LAW SAYS XYZ!!!" well, yeah it does little kid, but how you bend it or manipulate it to whatever ends is what counts... get a clue... | |
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AnonDOG
@kaballero.com
| Re: Look at your Cell Phone... quote:
i can see most of you now, "BUT THE LAW SAYS XYZ!!!" well, yeah it does little kid, but how you bend it or manipulate it to whatever ends is what counts... get a clue...
[/qoute]
Hmmm... Well there is a real experienced observation.
I am not a little kid, and considering the wisdom and courtesy with which he responded to me, neither is he.
You, on the other hand, have demonstrated exactly what you are and it is not necessary for me to explain it to anyone.
Ta Ta
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BIGMIKE
Premium
join:2002-06-07
Westminster, CA
| said by ronpin :Most of us carry an open mic for the FBI -- right in our shirt pockets. Turning on your cell phone remotely is trivial -- and AT&T has given the feds carte-blanche to do it anytime. 1984 was 20 years late. » news.com.com/2100-1029-6140191.html
Who's buying cell phone records online? Cops
Net sellers tell Congress they supply law enforcement officials with call lists »www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12534959/
Looking For Cell Records?
»www.locatecell.com/
Missouri Attorney General Jay Nixon has obtained a court order to prevent an Internet business and its owners from offering to sell the records of cell phone customers in Missouri.
»www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2···ell.html
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Type "miserable failure" in Google | |
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| Warez_Zealot
Rural land of the rising sun
join:2006-04-19
japan
3 edits | Re: Of corse its illegal do they care? No. said by MysticGogeta :They only do what most of us would do. Because its their job and they get paid just like every one else. Is it wrong? Yes but I believe sometimes its necessary to do things to prevent a terrorist or a psychotic killer or a sexual predator from running loose on the internet. FYI the FBI is setting a precedent..
Today they use it on to prevent a terrorist or a psychotic killer or a sexual predator from running loose on the internet; but tomorrow it's to arrest your ass because they don't like what you put/look at on the internet.
IMO who cares what congress thinks (their job is to listen to the uninformed public, and let the FBI continue privacy invasion)... This should be brought before the Supreme court so they can put the FBI back in their place...
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| | Asmodeus
join:2004-05-26
Spring Valley, CA
| Re: Of corse its illegal do they care? No. said by Warez_Zealot :said by MysticGogeta :They only do what most of us would do. Because its their job and they get paid just like every one else. Is it wrong? Yes but I believe sometimes its necessary to do things to prevent a terrorist or a psychotic killer or a sexual predator from running loose on the internet. FYI the FBI is setting a precedent.. Today they use it on to prevent a terrorist or a psychotic killer or a sexual predator from running loose on the internet; but tomorrow it's to arrest your ass because they don't like what you put/look at on the internet. IMO who cares what congress thinks (their job is to listen to the uninformed public, and let the FBI continue privacy invasion)... This should be brought before the Supreme court so they can put the FBI back in their place... which branch of government do you think the FBI belongs in...? there are only three and they are all autonomous... pick... | |
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| | | Warez_Zealot
Rural land of the rising sun
join:2006-04-19
japan
2 edits | Re: Of corse its illegal do they care? No. -_- | |
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Rural land of the rising sun
join:2006-04-19
japan | They still have to follow the constitution.. No one is above the right of the individual.. | |
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| jarthur31
join:2006-04-14
Carlsbad, NM
| Only in a totalitarian regime would that be "legal". Not in a democratic republic!!!
What we ought to do is change the justice system so that all are considered guilty before proven innocent to conform to that scary way of thinking.
Go after the criminals only not 100% of society.
I don't think you would like it if anyone assumed your parents/granparents, nieces/nephews, are felons without just cause. | |
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Spiral
No Easy Way To Be Free.
Premium
join:2003-03-04
Baltimore, MD | Great Opportunity for Lawyers Step 1. File Freedom of Information requests and find all the data that has been collected without a warrant.
Step 2. File class action lawsuits on behalf of those whose privacy was wrongly violated.
Step 3. Repeat Steps 1 & 2. | |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy
| Re: Great Opportunity for Lawyers said by Spiral :Step 1. File Freedom of Information requests and find all the data that has been collected without a warrant. Step 2. File class action lawsuits on behalf of those whose privacy was wrongly violated. Step 3. Repeat Steps 1 & 2. Step 1b, quash on grounds of "national security".
Next...
-tom
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"Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficial. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding." -Louis D Brandeis | |
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Mchart
Super Joe
join:2004-01-21
Gurnee, IL | Re: Great Opportunity for Lawyers War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength | |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy
| Re: Great Opportunity for Lawyers said by Mchart :War is Peace Freedom is Slavery Ignorance is Strength Orwell was an optimist.
-tom | |
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operagost
join:1999-08-02
Spring City, PA | Orwell is more inappropriately invoked than Ayn Rand. | |
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Mchart
Super Joe
join:2004-01-21
Gurnee, IL
·AT&T Yahoo
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Great Opportunity for Lawyers said by operagost :Orwell is more inappropriately invoked than Ayn Rand. People that are unable to draw parallels between past and present exsist in higher numbers. | |
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disconnected
@snet.net
| said by operagost :Orwell is more inappropriately invoked than Ayn Rand. The more appropriate contemporary source to cite on this topic would be Dr. Leonard Peikoff's "The Ominous Parallels." | |
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| | | | Asmodeus
join:2004-05-26
Spring Valley, CA
| said by operagost :Orwell is more inappropriately invoked than Ayn Rand. more like irrationally invoked more than Ayn Rand who is a close second, but in reality wrote nothing more than egotistical Anton Laveyesque diatribes... | |
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Spiral
No Easy Way To Be Free.
Premium
join:2003-03-04
Baltimore, MD
| said by nixen :said by Spiral : Step 1b, quash on grounds of "national security". You're probably right that they will bring up "national security", but a reasonable judge might listen to an argument pointing out that not all that confiscated data is of national security interest...release only that. And show some cause as to why you are withholding the rest. | |
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| RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11 | Step 1: Denied.
Step 2: Dismissed.
Step 3: Whine.
You have no case. | |
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Biggest Brother
@bell.ca | They are doing it for you The government know what's good for you PEOPLE.All they want is to protect you from these vile and evil terrorists.
Freedom and liberty through vigilance and preemption
Have faith citizens | |
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Yauch
join:2005-06-24 | Who? Where's KarlMarx when you need him? | |
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See 16 replies to this post |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD |  Of Course this is Needed!
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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Dagda1175
join:2001-06-17
Goleta, CA | carnivore Carnivore was more of a buckshot catcher. Specificity? not really. | |
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Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL | ? You mean the FBI is using ettercap? | |
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mrchris
We don't miss you Bush
Premium
join:2002-10-01
North Babylon, NY | Re: ? I wonder how they deal with users with dynamic IP addresses? | |
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Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL | Re: ? Ettercap reports DHCP connections in the console window below.
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The only limits we have are the one's we set ourselves. | |
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nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| waste of time & resources it's stupid and a waste of time and resources.
they are hoovering up so much data, the false positives must be driving them crazy and diverting resources from real and important leads.
Plus, is there anything this administration does that ever works? (except for destroying the constitution, I mean) | |
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texans20
Weapons of Masturbation
Premium
join:2002-09-28
Texas!
clubs:
| Like it matters Soon a warrant will not be needed to begin seeing what you do. The federal government wants ISPs to save every website you visit, every IM, every e-mail, etc. I have no problem with the government getting a warrant only after probable cause to gather that information. Folks doing nothing illegal should have nothing to worry about, because they should enjoy privacy.
I don't trust any government. Not because of today, but because of tomorrow. Who's to say we won't have a Chavez or Kim Jong Ill of our own in the White House one day. Limit powers and it makes it hard, but we are slowly giving the government specifically the executive more and more powers. A person might like Bush, but all these powers will not disappear come January 2009. Yes, the evil one Hillary might be able to see what websites you visit. | |
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Thx2Cryptology
| Re: Like it matters With growing no. of full-encryption software from your next-door garage (i.e. no plaintext attached to your 'secret message' saying I am DES3,etc), the selective capturing program like carnivore FAILs badly...If it is diffcult to 'catch' the fish, the last resort is to 'suck up' the pool...Thx. to Bittorrent Traffic... | |
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| | nOv1c3
join:2006-11-08
Whitney, TX
1 edit | Re: Like it matters Didn't read all replies . But just want to leave one thought .NSA ! we control the net and NSA has always monitored the phones and etc etc you can bet they monitored more than anyone cared to admit , Is it wrong I don't know can they monitor every conversation or net transaction more than likely not , But they can data mine and tag shit
You think about it . Its no defrent than what any of the big online companies are doing like google they all data mine and track everything from ip addy etc ect you name it :/ | |
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ctceo
Premium
join:2001-04-26
South Bend, IN
clubs: | A warrant has not been needed for years. The Patriot Act(s) and Secret Court, Field Judges and Staff can do what they please, and gag you (legally of course, possibly otherwise) if you threaten to talk about it. | |
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ctceo
Premium
join:2001-04-26
South Bend, IN
clubs:
 ·magicjack.com
 ·AT&T U-Verse
·Comcast
·AT&T Midwest
 ·HughesNet Satellit..
1 edit | What did he say? "The question that's interesting, although I don't know whether it's so clear, is whether this is illegal, whether it's constitutional,"
Con... Sti. Tu... Tion.
I'm not so sure that document is enforced entirely anymore.
con·sti·tu·tion :
n.
1. The act or process of composing, setting up, or establishing.
2.
a. The composition or structure of something; makeup.
b. The physical makeup of a person: Having a strong constitution, she had no trouble climbing the mountain.
3.
a. The system of fundamental laws and principles that prescribes the nature, functions, and limits of a government or another institution.
b. The document in which such a system is recorded.
c. Constitution The fundamental law of the United States, framed in 1787, ratified in 1789, and variously amended since then.
I like the term "Variously Amended". Shouldn't it read "Continuously Degraded"? | |
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spy1
Welcome to Amerika
Premium
join:2002-06-24
Charlotte, NC
| So, are you DOING anything about it? »https://secure.aclu.org/site/Advocacy?pa···4.app24a
While not an answer, it's a start. A definite "head's-up" to YOUR legislator's, letting them know that you're aware of this, that you're concerned and that you're watching for their response and will use it as guideline on how to vote next time...
Or - we could all just bitch and whine about it and do nothing (that's what the government wants, after all).
I also firmly suggest you DO put all your friends and family's email addresses in that "forward to" box (I did). You can even personalize the message.
Think about it - it needs to be done.
And there's no one to do it - but you. Pete | |
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The Legality Of FBI 'Full Pipe' Surveillance