 MightyPez
join:2002-05-01
Saint Paul, MN
 ·Comcast
| It's the market, unfortunately As it was mentioned on Slashdot and on this site before as well, people are willing to pay it, so companies are more than willing to charge it. I myself have a data plan that includes unlimited text messaging.
Remember, we are willing to pay money for a bottle of water that we can get for free and cleaner out of a tap (well, in most cases, anyway). When we pay for something, we perceive it has value. | |
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LiamJunket
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Ocean City, NJ | Re: It's the market, unfortunately It has worth as long as people are willing to pay for it. Don't like paying for it; don't use it. | |
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| | bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Here | Re: It's the market, unfortunately Soon they'll expose that Caller ID is making criminal profits too. | |
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factchecker
@cox.net
| Re: It's the market, unfortunately said by bogey780  :Soon they'll expose that Caller ID is making criminal profits too. Actually, that Kushnick (sp?) guy has been doing that for several years now, talking about the true cost of CallerID and how much people are charged. | |
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LiamJunket
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Ocean City, NJ
·Comcast
1 edit | Re: It's the market, unfortunately said by factchecker :said by bogey780 :Soon they'll expose that Caller ID is making criminal profits too. Actually, that Kushnick (sp?) guy has been doing that for several years now, talking about the true cost of CallerID and how much people are charged. But Caller-ID is an OPTION and not required. Do I wish it was cheaper - sure. But even at the price they charge, to me it is worth it to screen callers and give me control over who I talk to and when I talk to them.
P.S. I don't pay extra for CallerID myself - it is included in a land line / mobile pkg.
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Internet News
My BLOG
My Web Page | |
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factchecker
@cox.net
| Re: It's the market, unfortunately said by LiamJunket :But Caller-ID is an OPTION and not required. That doesn't mean customers should not be alerted to the true price versus the actual cost of delivering the service.
The reason companies get away with charging as much as they do for services like SMS/TXT and caller ID is because consumers don't know the "real costs" of the product - how much it costs to deliver that service/product. | |
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ooglyoggly
@xo.net | Re: It's the market, unfortunately And we still get a charge for Touch Tone! | |
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join:2004-03-19
Here
| The thing is it's all part of the business model. Costs themselves are nebulous. A businessman just looks at total resources and how much he could make selling them off. If we paid the true cost of Caller ID, dod you think we'd pay the same in other fields? | |
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JasonD
@comcast.net
| Agreed. And they should keep raising the fee until they reach the profit apex point. They could quickly drop the price if SMS demand warrants it or they become too out of step with the market. They'd just be leaving money on the table if they don't, plus it would be hard to find an easier way to add shareholder value. | |
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jhboricua
ExMod 2000-01
join:2000-06-06
Minneapolis, MN
clubs: | But do you consider this a moral thing to do? | |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
 ·DSL EXTREME
| Re: It's the market, unfortunately Business and morality do not go hand in hand.
Businesses are out there to make money/profit.
Morality requires a conscience.
Businesses require keeping an eye on the bottom line - conscience can get in the way.
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Canada = Hollywood North | |
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jhboricua
ExMod 2000-01
join:2000-06-06
Minneapolis, MN
clubs:
| Re: It's the market, unfortunately Ah, and yet these same people that believe in profit at any cost, and other that supports their practices are quick to chastice the morality of those who, for example, download copyrighted material by using P2P applications.
If they lack the morality to charge ridiculous fees, how can they question the morality of those who won't play their game?
--
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." - Albert Einstein
Jose A. Hernandez * System Admin * MPLS, Minnesota, USA * | |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Re: It's the market, unfortunately That's why they have legality  through contracts/service agreements bought for by lobbiests and lawyers.
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Canada = Hollywood North | |
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| | | | nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| that's an unfortunate and true fact - and is why it is necessary sometimes for the government to become the conscience.
without either an internal or external conscience we get industries like telecom, where their greed and lack of concern for their country has resulted in a broadband market that is years behind the rest of the developed world, or the content industry, whose lawsuits and bullying have stifled untold creativity and created misery for innocent people.
the free market extremists don't believe in any government regulation or intervention, unless it is of course regulation or intervention that helps industry - does the oil industry really need tax breaks? should congress be passing laws that help the content industry prop up their obsolete business model? | |
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LiamJunket
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Ocean City, NJ
·Comcast
| said by jhboricua :But do you consider this a moral thing to do? The capitalist system, so far, has been the best at optimizing scarce resources. And a system that is efficient returns the most to society. So, yes, I find that moral.
--
Internet News
My BLOG
My Web Page | |
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factchecker
@cox.net
| Re: It's the market, unfortunately said by LiamJunket :The capitalist system, so far, has been the best at optimizing scarce resources. I would be careful when you say that once you realize that capitalist economies also exhibit the greatest amount of waste - wasted food (look in the trash of any restaurant), wasted resources (disposable products), etc.
For example, millions of gallons of oil are wasted each year on bottled water because the bottles are used once and discarded to landfills. Single use products, like water bottles, made from finite resources, like oil, are not an efficient use of resources. | |
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anaonono
@cox.net
| Moral thing to do? Do you think ANYONE standing to gain from any phone company's profits cares at all whether or not it is the moral thing to do?
Business is business, the only goal is to make as much money as possible. Any perception of morality is merely an attempt to make more money by giving some appearance of a company being moral to gain more customers, thus, make more money.
The only motivation behind any action any company does is to make more money. Bottom line. There is no such thing as "moral" in business. | |
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| | nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD | also don't forget, "there's a sucker born every minute". | |
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karlmarx
join:2006-09-18
Nashua, NH
·Fairpoint Communic..
| That is EXACTLY correct. We are willing to pay for something that has 'value'. Why do you think P2P is so popular? Because it has no 'value', which is why it's free. If the **AA's got in the game, and charged reasonable prices that people were willing to pay, they could become the 'water' vendor of the internet. Instead, they cling to their outdated system of placing an arbitrary value on something that HAS NO VALUE. A bit is a bit is a bit. The fact that they are organized in a certain way doesn't make the price of ZERO suddenly add up to $17.99.
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The happiest countries are the most secular. The struggle AGAINST corporations is the struggle FOR humanity! | |
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Dan
Hamilton Tigers?
Premium
join:2002-12-17
Eh? | Re: It's the market, unfortunately How did that jump to a RIAA slag from a topic on sms? | |
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snipper_cr
join:2002-01-22
Wheaton, IL
clubs:
| Re: It's the market, unfortunately said by Dan :How did that jump to a RIAA slag from a topic on sms? Stand by for blaming it on the bush administration! | |
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PolarBear
The bear formerly known as aaron8301
Premium
join:2005-01-03
Riverside, WA
·CableOne
| said by Dan :How did that jump to a RIAA slag from a topic on sms? It's called a comparison. He was comparing the market of MP3s to the market of sms messages. | |
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Kfedka
Premium
join:2005-05-06
Spokane, WA
| I've had a cellphone for three years first year being Tmobile and last two years being Verizon. I have seen a drop of 0% on the rate. ISP's are either dropping rates or increasing bandwidth speeds, But these phone companies or doing neither.
There seems to be no competition whatsoever, even with some many wireless phone companies. | |
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| | disc
join:2005-12-31
Raleigh, NC
1 edit | Re: It's the market, unfortunately said by Kfedka :I've had a cellphone for three years first year being Tmobile and last two years being Verizon. I have seen a drop of 0% on the rate. ISP's are either dropping rates or increasing bandwidth speeds, But these phone companies or doing neither. Rumour is that Sprint is going to start some price wars: »www.thestreet.com/s/sprint-preps···googlefi | |
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PolarBear
The bear formerly known as aaron8301
Premium
join:2005-01-03
Riverside, WA
·CableOne
| Re: It's the market, unfortunately said by disc :Rumour is that Sprint is going to start some price wars: Well yeah, they have to do SOMETHING to keep from losing all of their customers due to billing mistakes and poor customer service. | |
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| Ulmo
join:2005-09-22
San Jose, CA
·Comcast
·SONIC.NET
1 edit | said by MightyPez :As it was mentioned on Slashdot and on this site before as well, people are willing to pay it, so companies are more than willing to charge it. I myself have a data plan that includes unlimited text messaging. Remember, we are willing to pay money for a bottle of water that we can get for free and cleaner out of a tap (well, in most cases, anyway). When we pay for something, we perceive it has value. Not all of us are that stupid, and get the free water instead, but can't do without texts.
As soon as there's a phone plan without the outrageous fees, of course we'll use it. | |
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morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000
clubs: | kids kids and teens are the biggest SMS users. so this is a tax/fee on their ignorance. | |
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| phantom6294
join:2002-02-27
Abingdon, MD
| Re: kids said by morbo :kids and teens are the biggest SMS users. so this is a tax/fee on their ignorance. I've reached the point where I'd rather just call the person then spend the time tapping out a message. I used to have Verizon's Unlimited IN text messaging with 500 other messages and it cost $10. Then, I noticed most months I would have no more than 20-30 total messages (in/out). Well, even if it were 30 message @ $0.30 a message, that's only $9.00 so I still saved money. Now that I know I don't have unlimited message, I use it even less. This past month was 19 messages (12 in / 7 out) for $2.85. | |
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PToN
join:2001-10-04
Houston, TX
| No way out Plus, you forget that you are obligated to have SMS even when you dont use it. Of course you pay for what you send and receive. But try calling and tell them you want SMS turned off... The time that happens it will be the same time the sun dies....
It's free money for them, just like water bottling companies, its a license to print money... | |
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vzw emp
@qwest.net
| Re: No way out said by PToN :Plus, you forget that you are obligated to have SMS even when you dont use it. Of course you pay for what you send and receive. But try calling and tell them you want SMS turned off... The time that happens it will be the same time the sun dies.... It's free money for them, just like water bottling companies, its a license to print money... I don't know who your carrier is, but mine is Verizon. You can have texting blocked. I can neither send or receive text/pix messages and that suits me just fine. | |
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Herizon
@rr.com
| Re: No way out We had verizon turn off text and all other chargeable features, when her new Razr starting downloading stuff all by itself -- my SO literally isn't capable of actuating a download. She can't even program a speed-dial.
Verizon insisted, of course, that she was initiating all of the traffic, but after we had a little chat, they agreed that the best course was to disable and credit the nuisance charges (about $50). | |
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| WayneHolmes
join:2006-12-23
Mountlake Terrace, WA
| said by PToN :Plus, you forget that you are obligated to have SMS even when you dont use it. Of course you pay for what you send and receive. But try calling and tell them you want SMS turned off... The time that happens it will be the same time the sun dies.... It's free money for them, just like water bottling companies, its a license to print money... I currently have wireless from Qwest and they offer the ability to block all text messaging as well. There was no charge, just called up and asked that all text send/receive be removed from our account.
Wayne | |
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Corona
It's cool, I'm takin it back
Premium
join:2000-03-14
San Antonio, TX | I believe you can do it on AT&T Wireless as well.
Who is your carrier? | |
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PToN
join:2001-10-04
Houston, TX | Re: No way out T-Mobile....  | |
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B
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-28
| SMS and "Ringtones" - A Civilization in DeclineMy Subject line says it for me. The fact that people blithely and willingly pay such ridiculous markups for tiny chunks of WAV or MP3 files (usually for songs they already own) in super-secret Ringtone format for their free-with-2-year-commitment cell phones, and that they then pay dozens of extra dollars per month to text-chat with their friends instead of using the phone/Internet minutes they've already paid for... well let's just say it explains a lot of things.
-- B
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In a realm outside causality and function | |
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Cod
join:2000-07-05
Greensboro, NC
| one sided arguement... Why doesn't this study take into account the fact that almost all people who use SMS on a regular basis pay for a text plan which is substantially cheaper:
AT&T prices-
200 text messages: $5.00 (10 cents/add'l msg)
1500 text messages: $15.00 (5 cents/add'l msg)
Unlimited: $20.00 | |
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| B
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-28
| Re: one sided arguement... And you think even this is somehow reasonable?? For teensy little text messages when you're already paying large sums for cell service, and now we find the SMS costs the provider nothing?
Are ringtones a great bargain when they're "only" a $1 a piece?
-- B
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In a realm outside causality and function | |
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| | Cod
join:2000-07-05
Greensboro, NC
| Re: one sided arguement... said by B :And you think even this is somehow reasonable?? I have the 1500 text plan and think a penny per SMS is very reasonable for the service it provides me. To each their own. | |
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| | | B
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-28
| Re: one sided arguement... Fair enough. (I look at the $15 monthly and think that it's double what I pay for my unlimited home telephone service.) And thankfully I don't use or rely on text messaging. E-mail, as they say, for the win. 
-- B
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In a realm outside causality and function | |
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| | | | jester121
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL | Re: one sided arguement... B, you forget that text messages work almost all the time, unlike our VOIP service.  | |
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| | | | Cod
join:2000-07-05
Greensboro, NC
| said by B :Fair enough. (I look at the $15 monthly and think that it's double what I pay for my unlimited home telephone service.) And thankfully I don't use or rely on text messaging. E-mail, as they say, for the win. -- B Yah- to be fair, I think the value is in the eye of each consumer. Of course paying 30 cents per text is obsurd but like any business, they know if you want to text you will upgrade to a plan thus bringing in more revenue. | |
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danc4498
@link2gov.com
| Raised prices I think the reason prices were raised was to get people to move on to the unlimited plan texting programs. I imagine ATT wants to get rid of a cost per text model, and the only way is to do so (without lowering the price of the unlimited model), is to make the unlimited model more appealing. | |
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shaner
Premium
join:2000-10-04
Calgary, AB | Re: Raised prices Well, that's it exactly. When imnvestors are looking at ARPU as a defining factor in AT&S worth, then they have incentive to try and convert variable consumer charges into guaranteed fixed rates like Unlimited SMS. | |
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rdcpro
@qwest.net
| Re: Raised prices said by djrobx :Why would AT&T want to get rid of the per-text cash cow? Think of all the money they make on people who unexpectedly use more texts than expected. Those people are likely to contact the call center, and complain, or try to get the charges removed. My daughter accidentally subscribed to one of those text-a-day things she saw on TV, and by the time I found out about it, it had racked up over $50 in costs.
Spent some time on the phone with their call center, and the charges were reversed. Where's the profit in that?
Besides, it probably costs them more per message on a pay as you go plan, because of the accounting costs.
Given that most folks send less than their plan limits, getting everyone to pay MORE for unlimited makes more money.
As annoying as knowing what the true cost actually is, I have to say that occasionally text messaging is worth it--there are times you can't talk on the phone, but sending a message is just about as good. And I have a number of servers in datacenters, so when something goes toes up, a text message is way better than a call from an angry customer.
I pay for 300/mo for my phone, but my daughter has unlimited. I learned that lesson! ;^) | |
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slogansandbrands
@verizon.net
| clever marketing it's clever marketing to get people to believe that the product cost so much and to convince consumers to buy those products and services.. well, all this was not lost on the company who knows to well that a sucker is born every day.
sooner or later a company such as google will come and take away that lucrative market, and the likes of verizon will have a reckoning as well when real competition hits the marketplace it its 65 million subscriber heart.
hey, now that the economy isn't doing so well, maybe $4 for a cup of deluxe coffee wasn't such a hot idea.. starbucks might have to (oh no, the sky is falling) actually CLOSE SOME STORES! | |
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Starbux Achiever
@rr.com
| Re: clever marketing said by slogansandbrands :
it's clever marketing to get people to believe that the product cost so much and to convince consumers to buy those products and services..
hey, now that the economy isn't doing so well, maybe $4 for a cup of deluxe coffee wasn't such a hot idea.. starbucks might have to (oh no, the sky is falling) actually CLOSE SOME STORES!
Oh get off it. I've bought "deluxe" coffee at Starbucks for a decade, and it never costs more than $1.50. My local donut franchise (Yum Yum) charges MORE than starbucks.
McDonald's coffee is actually marginally better than SBUX, but they can't compete on ambiance, if you're among the few who wish to "dine in". I don't wish to appear a snob, but McD's is always laden with screaming kids, bums, and various lower-class folks with annoying habits. | |
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jhboricua
ExMod 2000-01
join:2000-06-06
Minneapolis, MN
clubs:
| One reason they fear opening the apps on the phones Fear of the moment you're able to run custom apps on their phones and can do IM over the internet bypassing their ridiculous SMS charges and/or plans. Even their own supplied AOL, MSN, Yahoo IM client applications are made to use SMS so they can charge you. Worst of all, they double dip as they charge you for the SMS message AND the bandwidth against your Internet allowance.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." - Albert Einstein
Jose A. Hernandez * System Admin * MPLS, Minnesota, USA * | |
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jester121
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL | Kudos.... Absolutely brilliant -- create technology that people want/like/can easily learn to use, and charge a price that clearly millions of people are willing to pay.
It makes me proud to be an American. | |
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SHARPSHARK
join:2002-05-10
| High demand I still believe that cellphones are the best profitable of all communication. I mean, everyone wants a cellphone because everyone has one. So, companies are pretty happy to charge for anything on your cellphone since it's in high demand.
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SHARPSHARK | |
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Joe12345678
join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL | Why can incomeing be free? why do you have to pay for incoming SMS / text spam?
I have SMS / text turned off on my phone. | |
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Wilbur333
@communitynet.ca
| Re: Why can incomeing be free? Receiving text messages is free with my provider (Sasktel Mobility).
and it's also free to send them if you send them from their website... or send them via e-mail to phone#@pcs.sasktelmobility.com
Both of the free solutions to send require a computer... or a smartphone. | |
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ArgMeMatey
join:2001-08-09
Milwaukee, WI
·AT&T Midwest
| said by Joe12345678 :why do you have to pay for incoming SMS / text spam? We get free incoming text messages from US Cellular. | |
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amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
clubs:
| silly I get incoming free, but it's $.25 per sent text, $.50 per sent pic (which I do even less since my camera in the phone is lo-fi). U.S. Cellular... took over "Cellular One" where I am... they've been pretty good so far... decent plan, nationwide, good service.
It's such a scam, yet people always ask me "why don't you just get a text plan?" including, of course, the sales reps...
Answer? I don't text much, if at all. Some months, I just don't. I might receive a few, but that's it.
It should pretty much be free by now anyway with the rates the way they are. I can understand data costing some money, but a little text? Come on, give me a break.
Personally, I don't do it much. 5 outgoing texts costs me a whopping $1. Oh well. Rather have that occasional buck or two tacked on than 5-10-15 bucks for a text "deal."
Amazingly enough, I really just want my phone to be... a phone
If I needed a crackberry, I'd get a freaking crackberry... | |
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BillRoland
Premium
join:2001-01-21
Ocala, FL
clubs:
·Cox HSI
| Tunnel Vision While I agree with the assessement that the bandwidth costs for GSM (and maybe even CDMA, I don't know how SMS works on that platform) is essentially $0 (the control channel has to be there anyway, sending SMS down it costs nothing), that's only part of the story. Carriers have to implement SMS systems that keep track of the messages, make sure they're delivered, etc, not to mention they have to have agreements with other carries to send and recieve messages between them. Is that worth $.20 or $.30 a message? I have no idea. As somebody else pointed out, they have plans that are significantly cheaper. My whole point is there is more to this than bandwidth costs and AT&T or anybody else does have costs associated with offering it. NEXTEL for instance utilizes a data channel to transfer their version of text messages, I have no idea why because the iDEN system and the phones are fully capable of using two way SMS messages.
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"Don't steal. The government hates competition." | |
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wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
 ·BroadVoice
| This whole "True Cost" notion is a load of BS The problem I have with the "True Cost" notion is that it only takes into account one aspect of the pricing of a service. Sure, the bandwidth to deliver an SMS costs a lot less than $0.20, however there is a lot more that goes into delivering that message that isnt reflected here. Think about it like this, what REALLY goes into providing an SMS?
1) Real estate costs to house support reps (a few hundred thousand dollars a month, if not more)
2) Salaries of support reps, technicians, and engineers (another few hundred grand per month)
4) Network costs such as equipment and depreciation, cabling, and even overtime (lets not forget about the union gouging the hell out of them either!). This is probably another few hundred thousand per month.
This is just the start, and there are likely many other expenses that I couldnt think of. Does it really cost the carriers anywhere near $0.20 to handle your SMS? OF COURSE NOT! HOWEVER, we must not forget that they (carriers) are running a business, and if people are willing to pay for something then market price will determine how much a company can charge.
People like to analyze and dissect the pricing of almost all the goods/services we purchase. Sure, it might be fun to be an "armchair general" and (incorrectly) assume you can calculate costs, however it wont do anyone a bit of good. If people think the cost of a service they choose to buy is too much, then they can simply stop using it. Clearly, the market has determined that customers will pay $0.20 per SMS, and so therefor the "True Cost" of an SMS is (get ready for it...........)
$0.20!!
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с новым годом | |
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cghh
join:2001-01-15
Milpitas, CA
1 edit | What does cost have to do with price? There seems to be an assumption in this thread that there should be a correlation between the cost to produce an item, and the price charged for it (other than the price is generally at least the cost). In a capitalistic system, the price a seller charges for an item is what what enough customers will pay for it. The more customers want an item, the more the seller can charge. Is the price for a painting by a famous artist based on the cost of the canvas and paints and other supplies used to produce the painting? Of course not! If one can produce an item for 10 cents that people are willing to pay $100 for, what is wrong with that?
Of course, if one feels that the capitalistic model is inherently immoral, then one's take on this would be quite different. | |
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clickwir
join:2001-06-21
Dickson City, PA
| I don't pay for texting. Exactly the reason why I don't pay for texting. Sure I can get unlimited texting for only $15/month. Yea, it's not that much money. But I know it's a rip off. And even if it's cheap, I'm not going to buy it, because I know it's a rip off.
I'd be willing to pay maybe.... $2/month. Even then they'll be making a good profit. I'd be able to bring myself to pay that, but not $15. Not per text. Fuck them. | |
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papi4baby
join:2008-01-19
Callaway, MD
·Metrocast Communic..
| Well well, eat it ATT not me. Just yesterday i cancel my service with them because of this. The rep actually try to compare the rate hike to gas prices going up LOL. I told her i didn't sing any contract with OPEC or with my car manufacturer.
Went with sprint and got free text and pic for two years. | |
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Its a Secret
@shawcable.net
| Text and caller ID costs As an ex mobile phone employee, I can tell you text, caller ID, call forwarding etc. cost providers nothing. The capability came as a direct result of digital network implementation.
Your're being ripped off to the N-th degree... it's pure gravy like the system and access fees. | |
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Richard Wireless
@cox.net
| Re: Text and caller ID costs Carriers have to pay feature licenses at switch such as caller id, call forward, etc.. But still thats nothing compared to what they are charging all customers.
said by Its a Secret :
As an ex mobile phone employee, I can tell you text, caller ID, call forwarding etc. cost providers nothing. The capability came as a direct result of digital network implementation.
Your're being ripped off to the N-th degree... it's pure gravy like the system and access fees.
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The True Bandwidth Cost Of SMS
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