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Three States Approve Frontier Verizon Deal
California, Nevada and South Carolina ok huge sale
by Karl Bode 05:48PM Monday Nov 02 2009
Back in May, Verizon announced they hoped to sell another huge chunk of their DSL and landline network to Frontier. The $8.5 billion deal would infuse Frontier (which currently has 2.3 million customers) with 4.8 million new residential and small-business phone lines across 14 states, 1 million broadband connections, and 11,000 former Verizon employees. Like previous deals with Hawaii Telcom and Fairpoint, the deal would involve the use of a Reverse Morris Trust -- a tricky financial move that allows Verizon to avoid the tax penalties of a traditional sale, while offloading a ton of debt onto would-be suitors. Despite consumer worries this new sale could end the same way these last two did (bankruptcy), regulators in South Carolina, California and Nevada have all unanimously voted yes for the deal.

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ke4pym
Premium
join:2004-07-24
Charlotte, NC

Wrong Carolina

In the headline.

FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

Deal still needs more approvals before it is a go

The Federal Communications Commission and state regulators in Arizona, Illinois, Ohio, Oregon, Washington state and West Virginia also must approve the transaction.
Still a long way from all needed approvals.

Will Frontier still go forward if 1 or more states doesn't agree?

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:39

Re: Deal still needs more approvals before it is a go

When is the last time any big deal in this country was stopped or even seriously hampered by regulators?

FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

Re: Deal still needs more approvals before it is a go

said by Karl Bode:

When is the last time any big deal in this country was stopped or even seriously hampered by regulators?
I can think of a couple railroad mergers(CSX/Conrail was one) stopped by regulators. And Worldcom/Sprint merger was denied by DOJ in 2000 and the parties gave up rather fight DOJ in court.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

1 recommendation

Re: Deal still needs more approvals before it is a go

which with MCI/WorldCom came their fall.

CaptainRR
Premium
join:2006-04-21
Blue Rock, OH

Re: Deal still needs more approvals before it is a go

Look who owns MCI/Worldcom now: Verizon. The reason why I am commenting on the CSX/Conrail merger was it was way more complicated than most think it was. I wont go into much detail on it here this is not the place for it but it amost bankrupted CSX and NS. I work for CSX and we went through some rocky times for a couple of years after it.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: Deal still needs more approvals before it is a go

And look what VZ is doing to those Residential customers that had the MCI Unlimited Neighborhood- selling them off. Hell i'd be suprised if one still has that plan from when MCI first rolled it out. They were one of the first Telco's to offer unlimited unlimited for $49.99 and then came ATT and VZ after they lost their asses on that.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
Ohio will be next. There has never been a deal Ohio hasn't liked before. This won't be the first.

mikedz4

join:2003-04-14
Weirton, WV
if west virginia approves after i have the whole state capital in an uproar over the merger i will be really upset plus i will cancel verizon and switch back to comcast or dish.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: Deal still needs more approvals before it is a go

and just how do you plan to have the entire state capital in an uproar? I'm sure they don't care about you.

vzdollars

@iastate.edu

1 recommendation

Verizon's not just selling, they're buying too...

After all, we have the best regulators money can buy!

karlmarx

join:2006-09-18
Chicago, IL

Of COURSE it's going to end up in bankruptcy

Verizon, of course, has PAID OFF THE REGULATORS. PERIOD. There is NO WAY in hell frontier can survive with $5 BILLION of new debt. I however, have a MUCH better idea.

Carolina, California, and Nevada should change the 'pole tax' that verizon pays to $1000.00 per pole per year. That would make the value of verizon's investment in these states, umm, let's see. LESS THAN $0.00 Guess what, Verizon won't pay it. And guess what, the states can then SEIZE the assets to pay the back tax liabilityr. THEN the state government can start up their own MUNI networks, with ALL the assets for FREE. I guarantee you, even with the inefficiencies of a muni, they would provide MUCH better services at MUCH lower prices if they could start off with a FREE infrastructure. If that happens, then EVERYONE WINS (except the fat cats at verizon and the shareholders. Oh, noo... boo hoos for them)
--
The happiest countries are the most secular. The struggle AGAINST corporations is the struggle FOR humanity!
Expand your moderator at work

FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

Re: Of COURSE it's going to end up in bankruptcy

said by karlmarx:

Verizon, of course, has PAID OFF THE REGULATORS. PERIOD. There is NO WAY in hell frontier can survive with $5 BILLION of new debt. I however, have a MUCH better idea.

Carolina, California, and Nevada should change the 'pole tax' that verizon pays to $1000.00 per pole per year. That would make the value of verizon's investment in these states, umm, let's see. LESS THAN $0.00 Guess what, Verizon won't pay it. And guess what, the states can then SEIZE the assets to pay the back tax liabilityr. T
You already proposed that ridiculous idea once today. Maybe CUBA or Venezuela would do it, but not any rational gov't not ruled by a dictator.
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AbBaZaBbA
Premium
join:2002-07-10
Wildomar, CA
kudos:4

1 recommendation

said by karlmarx:

Verizon, of course, has PAID OFF THE REGULATORS. PERIOD. There is NO WAY in hell frontier can survive with $5 BILLION of new debt. I however, have a MUCH better idea.

Carolina, California, and Nevada should change the 'pole tax' that verizon pays to $1000.00 per pole per year. That would make the value of verizon's investment in these states, umm, let's see. LESS THAN $0.00 Guess what, Verizon won't pay it. And guess what, the states can then SEIZE the assets to pay the back tax liabilityr. THEN the state government can start up their own MUNI networks, with ALL the assets for FREE. I guarantee you, even with the inefficiencies of a muni, they would provide MUCH better services at MUCH lower prices if they could start off with a FREE infrastructure. If that happens, then EVERYONE WINS (except the fat cats at verizon and the shareholders. Oh, noo... boo hoos for them)
we should also charge a 100% tax on all profits from fast food companies. Soon they will all be bankrupt and the government can get them for FREE and give us all cheap food. EVERYONE would win (except those that don't)
sides14

join:2007-11-29
Glendale, AZ

1 recommendation

You want the people who bring us deficits and big government to seize assets and provide service. Please tell me you are joking. If not, show me one government program that is successful and within its original budget.
EPS4

join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA

1 recommendation

I think we should steal all of YOUR property. Surely there's some ridiculous way we can try to justify it. And then EVERYONE WINS. (Except for you, I guess, but I'll just cast you off as a "fat cat" or something so we can ignore any of your complaints)
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·Verizon Online DSL
I have a better idea. Let the Frontier deal go through, with the stipulation that the network reverts to municipalities if Frontier declares bankruptcy. Number one, it gives Frontier a BIG incentive to keep above water. Number two, if Frontier keels over we suddenly have city-run networks. That's what everyone wants, right?

RARPSL

join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY
I have a better idea. Require that the money paid to Verizon go into an escrow account for one year. If by the end of that year Frontier has not declared Bankruptcy, the money gets released to Verizon. Otherwise it gets paid to Frontier [with the debt being handed back to Verizon] or goes into the Bankruptcy Assets Account. Verizon wants to play accounting games to offload the debt, they should be at risk if the offloading fails.
openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2

Re: Of COURSE it's going to end up in bankruptcy

A couple of even better ideas. Regulators stand up and disapprove mergers if the deal(s) really are destined to fail. Change the tax laws that allow tax efficient transfers of assets if they actually are bad for business.

Don't blame VZ for effectively conducting business.

RARPSL

join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY

Re: Of COURSE it's going to end up in bankruptcy

said by openbox9:

A couple of even better ideas. Regulators stand up and disapprove mergers if the deal(s) really are destined to fail. Change the tax laws that allow tax efficient transfers of assets if they actually are bad for business.

Don't blame VZ for effectively conducting business.
Since it is the Federal Tax laws that allow Verizon to pull this scam, it is out of the hands of the Local (ie: State) Regulators to change the Tax Laws. OTOH: They DO have the authority to set ground rules (such as my escrowing of the money) for allowing the deal to be approved.
old_wiz_60

join:2005-06-03
Bedford, MA
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
Apparently the regulators didn't pay attention to Fairpoint in Maine. This will end up exactly the same; terrible service, higher prices, and huge debt loads. Verizon uses loopholes in the law to dump the get huge tax concessions. And of course they slip a little something to the regulators, be in "donations" or hookers or drugs.

aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
said by karlmarx:

Verizon, of course, has PAID OFF THE REGULATORS. PERIOD. There is NO WAY in hell frontier can survive with $5 BILLION of new debt. I however, have a MUCH better idea.

Carolina, California, and Nevada should change the 'pole tax' that verizon pays to $1000.00 per pole per year. That would make the value of verizon's investment in these states, umm, let's see. LESS THAN $0.00 Guess what, Verizon won't pay it. And guess what, the states can then SEIZE the assets to pay the back tax liabilityr. THEN the state government can start up their own MUNI networks, with ALL the assets for FREE. I guarantee you, even with the inefficiencies of a muni, they would provide MUCH better services at MUCH lower prices if they could start off with a FREE infrastructure. If that happens, then EVERYONE WINS (except the fat cats at verizon and the shareholders. Oh, noo... boo hoos for them)
Wouldn't that affect all utilities and not just Verizon. And in the end would't people e paying astronomical electric rates because of that? Sine the pole tax would be passed down from the electric company to the customers.

morbo
Complete Your Transaction

join:2002-01-22
00000

oh god no...

California, Nevada and South Carolina ok huge sale.

HEAD ASPLODE
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·Verizon Online DSL

Bonded ADSL2+ Annex M with AdrenaLine

Due to landline defections, Frontier should have plenty of copper pairs in any given area. So pair-bonded DSL from that perspective will be no problem. Swap out equipment at the headend, put some AdrenaLine boosters mid-line and you've got a system that will pump out 20/5 DSL at 15,000 feet from the CO. 10/5 is doable at 19,000 feet, and a basic 1.5/512 tier (better than mobile broadband) would be doable at over 24,000 feet. Sell 1.5/512 for $25 per month, 20/5 for $70 and another tier or two in between and you've got a decent business model.

jimmay76
Premium
join:2003-02-11
East Providence, RI

Re: Bonded ADSL2+ Annex M with AdrenaLine

Ian that is a very real solution, there is alot of empty copper out there

OSUGoose

join:2007-12-27
Columbus, OH

Re: Bonded ADSL2+ Annex M with AdrenaLine

Andthus will never happen, as it makes sence, and commone sence a telcos dont mix RE:AT&T u-Verse
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2

Re: Bonded ADSL2+ Annex M with AdrenaLine

But they sometimes do mix RE:VZ FiOS.

OSUGoose

join:2007-12-27
Columbus, OH

Re: Bonded ADSL2+ Annex M with AdrenaLine

But instead of rolling it out to their entire footprint, they sell off the unprofitable (read:rual exGTE areas) the stall the deployment and chose to market to their existing wired areas.

I applaud them for at least seeing the writting and doing something, however its sadistic to sell of some areas just bc you cant mute the investor crying any longer.
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2

Re: Bonded ADSL2+ Annex M with AdrenaLine

That's the problem with a publicly held company. If you don't like it, start a cooperative. That's what plenty of areas in Texas did...

rawgerz
The hell was that?
Premium
join:2004-10-03
Grove City, PA
And if the electric utilities did the same thing there would be a huge uproar. But for ILEC's it's just fine.
This kind of thing should be illegal if the company ever at some point accepted tax payer money to build out to these areas.
--

You can't make all the people happy all of the time. But it should be common sense to shoot for the majority.
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1
You think they will pay for the DSLAM firmware to do that? lol
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2

Re: Bonded ADSL2+ Annex M with AdrenaLine

One can only hope...

rawgerz
The hell was that?
Premium
join:2004-10-03
Grove City, PA
But Ann M only goes up to 3Mb up?
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2

Re: Bonded ADSL2+ Annex M with AdrenaLine

That's why I said bonded. Real-world speeds on Annex M are ~2.5 Mbps.

NOCMan
MadMacHatter
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Colorado Springs, CO

1 recommendation

Pathetic

All the outrage about government bailouts for companies, but wheres the rage about tax evasion

•••

RR Conductor
NWP RR Inc.,serving NW CA
Premium
join:2002-04-02
Redwood Valley, CA
kudos:1

California

What areas in CA? The northern half of our rural county of Mendocino is served by Verizon (formerly GTE, formerly Contel of CA).
--
You've got to stand for something, or you'll fall for anything.

••••

yolarry

join:2007-12-29
Creston, WV
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..
·HughesNet Satell..

AdrenaLine

if AdrenaLine works on xbox then I don't care for any other HSI for now.

AdrenaLine gotta be better then Hughesnet right? RIGHT???
--
HN7000S 5.6.1.35 - 99 West 1370 MHz -Transmit 1 watt - .74m Dish - Pro Plan - installed October 2007 - WRT54G V6 DD-WRT V24

perki

join:2008-12-01
Santa Maria, CA

No Verizon In Santa Barbara county?

Oh god comcast is gonna kick ass with no fios in our future. Currently where i live i have a choice of $33 a month 1.5 MBPS Dsl or 20 MBPS Cable Broadband for $66 a month. The choices lol
Rand Wilson

join:2007-06-23
Somerville, MA

It's not over till...

Check out the new stop the sale website at:
»www.verizonfrontierdeal.org There are state specific links to Ohio and West Virginia.

We also have a cool Facebook page where partisans can join and get the latest updates and find links to radio and tv ads against the deal. There were 236 fans as of today!
»www.facebook.com/home.php?#/page···42456339

Help spread the word!

NOYB
St. John 3.16
Premium
join:2005-12-15
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:1

Verizon Crack Snorting Authorities

The Frontier deal, if it goes through will end up with Frontier filling for bankruptcy. Just like the others did. Anyone who thinks a company can take on an additional 2x-3x their current network and survive and be good for the consumer is brain dead. Oh sure Verizon and Frontier will paint a pretty picture of how they envision it working. But it is just a pipe dream to dupe authorities to give approvals. Just like they did with the others like Fairpoint, etc.

Bottom line:
It won't work and you don't need to spend another dime or waste another minute studying it or having hearings, etc. to know this; that it won't work. All you need is to let your two common sense brain cells be free of the Verizon and Frontier provided pipe dream crack you're snorting for a few seconds.

--
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hi

@verizon.net

Re: Verizon Crack Snorting Authorities

can someone explain to me why frontier would accept this deal if they would end up bankrupt i no the deal would make verizon the majority shareholder of frontier and also i beleive verizon is being forced to sell these assets do to anti trust laws can someone expand on this deal to me in some detail
Rand Wilson

join:2007-06-23
Somerville, MA

W.V. is New Frontier in Fight Against Landline Sell-Offs

Read our article here:
»www.inthesetimes.com/working/ent···ll-offs/