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Three States Approve Frontier Verizon Deal
California, Nevada and South Carolina ok huge sale
Back in May, Verizon announced they hoped to sell another huge chunk of their DSL and landline network to Frontier. The $8.5 billion deal would infuse Frontier (which currently has 2.3 million customers) with 4.8 million new residential and small-business phone lines across 14 states, 1 million broadband connections, and 11,000 former Verizon employees. Like previous deals with Hawaii Telcom and Fairpoint, the deal would involve the use of a Reverse Morris Trust -- a tricky financial move that allows Verizon to avoid the tax penalties of a traditional sale, while offloading a ton of debt onto would-be suitors. Despite consumer worries this new sale could end the same way these last two did (bankruptcy), regulators in South Carolina, California and Nevada have all unanimously voted yes for the deal.
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ke4pym
Premium Member
join:2004-07-24
Charlotte, NC

ke4pym

Premium Member

Wrong Carolina

In the headline.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Deal still needs more approvals before it is a go

The Federal Communications Commission and state regulators in Arizona, Illinois, Ohio, Oregon, Washington state and West Virginia also must approve the transaction.
Still a long way from all needed approvals.

Will Frontier still go forward if 1 or more states doesn't agree?

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

Karl Bode

News Guy

Re: Deal still needs more approvals before it is a go

When is the last time any big deal in this country was stopped or even seriously hampered by regulators?

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Re: Deal still needs more approvals before it is a go

said by Karl Bode:

When is the last time any big deal in this country was stopped or even seriously hampered by regulators?
I can think of a couple railroad mergers(CSX/Conrail was one) stopped by regulators. And Worldcom/Sprint merger was denied by DOJ in 2000 and the parties gave up rather fight DOJ in court.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

1 recommendation

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: Deal still needs more approvals before it is a go

which with MCI/WorldCom came their fall.

CaptainRR
Premium Member
join:2006-04-21
Blue Rock, OH
·AT&T Wireless Br..

CaptainRR

Premium Member

Re: Deal still needs more approvals before it is a go

Look who owns MCI/Worldcom now: Verizon. The reason why I am commenting on the CSX/Conrail merger was it was way more complicated than most think it was. I wont go into much detail on it here this is not the place for it but it amost bankrupted CSX and NS. I work for CSX and we went through some rocky times for a couple of years after it.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: Deal still needs more approvals before it is a go

And look what VZ is doing to those Residential customers that had the MCI Unlimited Neighborhood- selling them off. Hell i'd be suprised if one still has that plan from when MCI first rolled it out. They were one of the first Telco's to offer unlimited unlimited for $49.99 and then came ATT and VZ after they lost their asses on that.
hottboiinnc4

hottboiinnc4 to FFH5

Member

to FFH5
Ohio will be next. There has never been a deal Ohio hasn't liked before. This won't be the first.

mikedz4
join:2003-04-14
Weirton, WV

mikedz4 to FFH5

Member

to FFH5
if west virginia approves after i have the whole state capital in an uproar over the merger i will be really upset plus i will cancel verizon and switch back to comcast or dish.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: Deal still needs more approvals before it is a go

and just how do you plan to have the entire state capital in an uproar? I'm sure they don't care about you.

vzdollars
@iastate.edu

1 recommendation

vzdollars

Anon

Verizon's not just selling, they're buying too...

After all, we have the best regulators money can buy!

karlmarx
join:2006-09-18
Moscow, ID

karlmarx

Member

Of COURSE it's going to end up in bankruptcy

Verizon, of course, has PAID OFF THE REGULATORS. PERIOD. There is NO WAY in hell frontier can survive with $5 BILLION of new debt. I however, have a MUCH better idea.

Carolina, California, and Nevada should change the 'pole tax' that verizon pays to $1000.00 per pole per year. That would make the value of verizon's investment in these states, umm, let's see. LESS THAN $0.00 Guess what, Verizon won't pay it. And guess what, the states can then SEIZE the assets to pay the back tax liabilityr. THEN the state government can start up their own MUNI networks, with ALL the assets for FREE. I guarantee you, even with the inefficiencies of a muni, they would provide MUCH better services at MUCH lower prices if they could start off with a FREE infrastructure. If that happens, then EVERYONE WINS (except the fat cats at verizon and the shareholders. Oh, noo... boo hoos for them)
Expand your moderator at work

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5 to karlmarx

Premium Member

to karlmarx

Re: Of COURSE it's going to end up in bankruptcy

said by karlmarx:

Verizon, of course, has PAID OFF THE REGULATORS. PERIOD. There is NO WAY in hell frontier can survive with $5 BILLION of new debt. I however, have a MUCH better idea.

Carolina, California, and Nevada should change the 'pole tax' that verizon pays to $1000.00 per pole per year. That would make the value of verizon's investment in these states, umm, let's see. LESS THAN $0.00 Guess what, Verizon won't pay it. And guess what, the states can then SEIZE the assets to pay the back tax liabilityr. T
You already proposed that ridiculous idea once today. Maybe CUBA or Venezuela would do it, but not any rational gov't not ruled by a dictator.

AbBaZaBbA
Premium Member
join:2002-07-10
Wildomar, CA

1 recommendation

AbBaZaBbA to karlmarx

Premium Member

to karlmarx
said by karlmarx:

Verizon, of course, has PAID OFF THE REGULATORS. PERIOD. There is NO WAY in hell frontier can survive with $5 BILLION of new debt. I however, have a MUCH better idea.

Carolina, California, and Nevada should change the 'pole tax' that verizon pays to $1000.00 per pole per year. That would make the value of verizon's investment in these states, umm, let's see. LESS THAN $0.00 Guess what, Verizon won't pay it. And guess what, the states can then SEIZE the assets to pay the back tax liabilityr. THEN the state government can start up their own MUNI networks, with ALL the assets for FREE. I guarantee you, even with the inefficiencies of a muni, they would provide MUCH better services at MUCH lower prices if they could start off with a FREE infrastructure. If that happens, then EVERYONE WINS (except the fat cats at verizon and the shareholders. Oh, noo... boo hoos for them)
we should also charge a 100% tax on all profits from fast food companies. Soon they will all be bankrupt and the government can get them for FREE and give us all cheap food. EVERYONE would win (except those that don't)
sides14
join:2007-11-29
Peoria, AZ

1 recommendation

sides14 to karlmarx

Member

to karlmarx
You want the people who bring us deficits and big government to seize assets and provide service. Please tell me you are joking. If not, show me one government program that is successful and within its original budget.
EPS4
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA

1 recommendation

EPS4 to karlmarx

Member

to karlmarx
I think we should steal all of YOUR property. Surely there's some ridiculous way we can try to justify it. And then EVERYONE WINS. (Except for you, I guess, but I'll just cast you off as a "fat cat" or something so we can ignore any of your complaints)
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx to karlmarx

Member

to karlmarx
I have a better idea. Let the Frontier deal go through, with the stipulation that the network reverts to municipalities if Frontier declares bankruptcy. Number one, it gives Frontier a BIG incentive to keep above water. Number two, if Frontier keels over we suddenly have city-run networks. That's what everyone wants, right?

RARPSL
join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY

RARPSL to karlmarx

Member

to karlmarx
I have a better idea. Require that the money paid to Verizon go into an escrow account for one year. If by the end of that year Frontier has not declared Bankruptcy, the money gets released to Verizon. Otherwise it gets paid to Frontier [with the debt being handed back to Verizon] or goes into the Bankruptcy Assets Account. Verizon wants to play accounting games to offload the debt, they should be at risk if the offloading fails.
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

openbox9

Premium Member

Re: Of COURSE it's going to end up in bankruptcy

A couple of even better ideas. Regulators stand up and disapprove mergers if the deal(s) really are destined to fail. Change the tax laws that allow tax efficient transfers of assets if they actually are bad for business.

Don't blame VZ for effectively conducting business.

RARPSL
join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY

RARPSL

Member

Re: Of COURSE it's going to end up in bankruptcy

said by openbox9:

A couple of even better ideas. Regulators stand up and disapprove mergers if the deal(s) really are destined to fail. Change the tax laws that allow tax efficient transfers of assets if they actually are bad for business.

Don't blame VZ for effectively conducting business.
Since it is the Federal Tax laws that allow Verizon to pull this scam, it is out of the hands of the Local (ie: State) Regulators to change the Tax Laws. OTOH: They DO have the authority to set ground rules (such as my escrowing of the money) for allowing the deal to be approved.
old_wiz_60
join:2005-06-03
Bedford, MA

old_wiz_60 to karlmarx

Member

to karlmarx
Apparently the regulators didn't pay attention to Fairpoint in Maine. This will end up exactly the same; terrible service, higher prices, and huge debt loads. Verizon uses loopholes in the law to dump the get huge tax concessions. And of course they slip a little something to the regulators, be in "donations" or hookers or drugs.

aaronwt
Premium Member
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
Asus RT-AX89

aaronwt to karlmarx

Premium Member

to karlmarx
said by karlmarx:

Verizon, of course, has PAID OFF THE REGULATORS. PERIOD. There is NO WAY in hell frontier can survive with $5 BILLION of new debt. I however, have a MUCH better idea.

Carolina, California, and Nevada should change the 'pole tax' that verizon pays to $1000.00 per pole per year. That would make the value of verizon's investment in these states, umm, let's see. LESS THAN $0.00 Guess what, Verizon won't pay it. And guess what, the states can then SEIZE the assets to pay the back tax liabilityr. THEN the state government can start up their own MUNI networks, with ALL the assets for FREE. I guarantee you, even with the inefficiencies of a muni, they would provide MUCH better services at MUCH lower prices if they could start off with a FREE infrastructure. If that happens, then EVERYONE WINS (except the fat cats at verizon and the shareholders. Oh, noo... boo hoos for them)
Wouldn't that affect all utilities and not just Verizon. And in the end would't people e paying astronomical electric rates because of that? Sine the pole tax would be passed down from the electric company to the customers.

morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000

morbo

Member

oh god no...

California, Nevada and South Carolina ok huge sale.

HEAD ASPLODE
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx

Member

Bonded ADSL2+ Annex M with AdrenaLine

Due to landline defections, Frontier should have plenty of copper pairs in any given area. So pair-bonded DSL from that perspective will be no problem. Swap out equipment at the headend, put some AdrenaLine boosters mid-line and you've got a system that will pump out 20/5 DSL at 15,000 feet from the CO. 10/5 is doable at 19,000 feet, and a basic 1.5/512 tier (better than mobile broadband) would be doable at over 24,000 feet. Sell 1.5/512 for $25 per month, 20/5 for $70 and another tier or two in between and you've got a decent business model.

jimmay76
Premium Member
join:2003-02-11
East Providence, RI

jimmay76

Premium Member

Re: Bonded ADSL2+ Annex M with AdrenaLine

Ian that is a very real solution, there is alot of empty copper out there

OSUGoose
join:2007-12-27
Columbus, OH

OSUGoose

Member

Re: Bonded ADSL2+ Annex M with AdrenaLine

Andthus will never happen, as it makes sence, and commone sence a telcos dont mix RE:AT&T u-Verse
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx

Member

Re: Bonded ADSL2+ Annex M with AdrenaLine

But they sometimes do mix RE:VZ FiOS.

OSUGoose
join:2007-12-27
Columbus, OH
Apple AirPort Extreme (2013)

OSUGoose

Member

Re: Bonded ADSL2+ Annex M with AdrenaLine

But instead of rolling it out to their entire footprint, they sell off the unprofitable (read:rual exGTE areas) the stall the deployment and chose to market to their existing wired areas.

I applaud them for at least seeing the writting and doing something, however its sadistic to sell of some areas just bc you cant mute the investor crying any longer.
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx

Member

Re: Bonded ADSL2+ Annex M with AdrenaLine

That's the problem with a publicly held company. If you don't like it, start a cooperative. That's what plenty of areas in Texas did...

rawgerz
The hell was that?
Premium Member
join:2004-10-03
Grove City, PA

rawgerz to OSUGoose

Premium Member

to OSUGoose
And if the electric utilities did the same thing there would be a huge uproar. But for ILEC's it's just fine.
This kind of thing should be illegal if the company ever at some point accepted tax payer money to build out to these areas.
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

patcat88 to iansltx

Member

to iansltx
You think they will pay for the DSLAM firmware to do that? lol
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx

Member

Re: Bonded ADSL2+ Annex M with AdrenaLine

One can only hope...

rawgerz
The hell was that?
Premium Member
join:2004-10-03
Grove City, PA

rawgerz to iansltx

Premium Member

to iansltx
But Ann M only goes up to 3Mb up?
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx

Member

Re: Bonded ADSL2+ Annex M with AdrenaLine

That's why I said bonded. Real-world speeds on Annex M are ~2.5 Mbps.

NOCMan
MadMacHatter
Premium Member
join:2004-09-30
Colorado Springs, CO

1 recommendation

NOCMan

Premium Member

Pathetic

All the outrage about government bailouts for companies, but wheres the rage about tax evasion

•••

RR Conductor
Ridin' the rails
Premium Member
join:2002-04-02
Redwood Valley, CA

RR Conductor

Premium Member

California

What areas in CA? The northern half of our rural county of Mendocino is served by Verizon (formerly GTE, formerly Contel of CA).

••••

yolarry
join:2007-12-29
Creston, WV

yolarry

Member

AdrenaLine

if AdrenaLine works on xbox then I don't care for any other HSI for now.

AdrenaLine gotta be better then Hughesnet right? RIGHT???

perki
join:2008-12-01
Santa Maria, CA

perki

Member

No Verizon In Santa Barbara county?

Oh god comcast is gonna kick ass with no fios in our future. Currently where i live i have a choice of $33 a month 1.5 MBPS Dsl or 20 MBPS Cable Broadband for $66 a month. The choices lol
Rand Wilson
join:2007-06-23
Somerville, MA

Rand Wilson

Member

It's not over till...

Check out the new stop the sale website at:
»www.verizonfrontierdeal.org There are state specific links to Ohio and West Virginia.

We also have a cool Facebook page where partisans can join and get the latest updates and find links to radio and tv ads against the deal. There were 236 fans as of today!
»www.facebook.com/home.ph ··· 42456339

Help spread the word!

NOYB
St. John 3.16
Premium Member
join:2005-12-15
Forest Grove, OR

NOYB

Premium Member

Verizon Crack Snorting Authorities


The Frontier deal, if it goes through will end up with Frontier filling for bankruptcy. Just like the others did. Anyone who thinks a company can take on an additional 2x-3x their current network and survive and be good for the consumer is brain dead. Oh sure Verizon and Frontier will paint a pretty picture of how they envision it working. But it is just a pipe dream to dupe authorities to give approvals. Just like they did with the others like Fairpoint, etc.

Bottom line:
It won't work and you don't need to spend another dime or waste another minute studying it or having hearings, etc. to know this; that it won't work. All you need is to let your two common sense brain cells be free of the Verizon and Frontier provided pipe dream crack you're snorting for a few seconds.

hi
@verizon.net

hi

Anon

Re: Verizon Crack Snorting Authorities

can someone explain to me why frontier would accept this deal if they would end up bankrupt i no the deal would make verizon the majority shareholder of frontier and also i beleive verizon is being forced to sell these assets do to anti trust laws can someone expand on this deal to me in some detail
Rand Wilson
join:2007-06-23
Somerville, MA

Rand Wilson

Member

W.V. is New Frontier in Fight Against Landline Sell-Offs

Read our article here:
»www.inthesetimes.com/wor ··· ll-offs/