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Thursday Evening Links
by Revcb 07:37PM Thursday Apr 12 2012

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FFH
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RE:Comcast is first U.S. ISP to offer IPv6 to home gateway

Unfortunately beyond two cities, nothing in this news item says when Comcast will rollout to more locations; how fast they will do that; and what locations are next.

I meet the HW/Firmware requirements, but not a clue to when my area will support it.
BiggA

join:2005-11-23
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Re: RE:Comcast is first U.S. ISP to offer IPv6 to home gateway

I ain't using IPv6. I'm sure I'll get newer gear that will support it, that's great, I'll just turn it off.

aefstoggaflm
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Re: RE:Comcast is first U.S. ISP to offer IPv6 to home gateway

said by BiggA:

I'll just turn it off.

Why is that?

Thanks
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BiggA

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Re: RE:Comcast is first U.S. ISP to offer IPv6 to home gateway

Don't want IPv6. It's a stupid, pointless technology, and I want to be able to manage everything with IPv4 and IPv4 NAT. IPv4 isn't going anywhere, for years and years everything is going to be done in both anyways, so why would I want IPv6?

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Re: RE:Comcast is first U.S. ISP to offer IPv6 to home gateway

said by BiggA:

It's a stupid, pointless technology.

Please explain how can you say that.

Thanks.
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BiggA

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Re: RE:Comcast is first U.S. ISP to offer IPv6 to home gateway

It's basically a scam by the ISPs and network hardware vendors to sell more stuff and new services. IPv4 has more than enough IPs for the whole world.

I think they they should either do eminent domain on about 80-90% of the IPv4 addresses out there, and leave 10-20% of them out there for use for use for the foreseeable future and the rest for the far out future, or else charge a yearly fee of $10 or something per IP used, which would cause universities and corporations who are hogging bast numbers of IPs to give most of them back and consolidate networks from hundreds or thousands of IPs in just a couple, and significantly more than half of the IPs in the world would become freed up.

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Re: RE:Comcast is first U.S. ISP to offer IPv6 to home gateway

said by BiggA:

IPv4 has more than enough IPs for the whole world.

#1 IPv4 Address space is limited to 2^32 ( 4,294,967,296 )

#2 Not all of the IPv4 space is public ( routable ).

Quote from »runningoffatthemouth.com/?p=747

quote:
That’s 2^24 possible addresses, gone. By definition, well more than 16.7 million addresses (actually, it’s closer to 17.9 million when you count all the other address spaces that have been defined as private) will never be available as public IP addresses.

#3 Then consider many users use the net and that number is growing.

I found the chart about the WORLD INTERNET USAGE AND POPULATION STATISTICS December 31, 2011 on »www.internetworldstats.com/stats.htm with a Google search for how many users use the net.

#4 Come on, really? Please explain: How can you say that?

said by BiggA:

I think they they should do eminent domain on about 80-90% of the IPv4 addresses out there, and leave 10-20% of them out there for use for use for the foreseeable future and the rest for the far out future which would cause universities and corporations who are hogging bast numbers of IPs to give most of them back and consolidate networks from hundreds or thousands of IPs in just a couple, and significantly more than half of the IPs in the world would become freed up.

#1 Give back the IP Address to who?

#2 What if that company (the answer to question #1) is out of bussiness? (if not a company - if a person: what if that person is dead) ?

#3 Who knows if an IP Address is used or not?

#4 How does that person / company (answer to question #2), know if the IP Address is used?

For example: The IP Address must reply to ping.

#5 How often does a person have to use their IP Address, before it is considered not used?

For example: They have to use it, at least once a month.

Why at least a month and not at least once a week: Because there are outages that occur and hopefully outages do not last more than three weeks.

Just to be clear by outage, I do not include the time that a website with an IP Address is up and running but set in read only mode (like what happened, here on DSLR).

said by BiggA:

For the foreseeable future and the rest for the far out future..

How long will that delay IPv6?

said by BiggA:

or else charge a yearly fee of $10 or something per IP used.

Unless I am mistaken: That is happening.

You don't get public Static IP(s) for Free, you must pay extra.

If you disagree with me, that is happening (now): Please explain.

Thanks
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BiggA

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Re: RE:Comcast is first U.S. ISP to offer IPv6 to home gateway

#1. I am well aware of that. But that's public IPs. An entire university network could run off of one public IP, with the rest of the machines on 10.x.x.x addresses.

#2. I know that.

#4. If you had the default option for residential customers to be a private IP globally, we'd be using less than 20% of the IPs, if that.

#1. ICANN should have pulled back >80% of IPv4 and held it for the foreseeable future.

#2. We'd have bigger problems if ICANN disappears.

#3. ICANN

#4. They already do that.

#5. They already do that.

It should have completely scrapped IPv6. We have no reason to have it at all. IPv4 is good enough.

They are not charging per year right now, otherwise companies like GE wouldn't be hogging massive chunks of the available IPs. Nor would universities or companies that I have caught assigning public IPs to individual computers or users.

You're still getting public IPs, even if they aren't static. If Comcast has to pay per month for public IPs, they would probably run one public IP per town, and then charge the customer per month for an individual public IP, which would be the market, allocate public IPs only to people who actually need them.

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Re: RE:Comcast is first U.S. ISP to offer IPv6 to home gateway

said by BiggA:

#1. I am well aware of that. But that's public IPs.

Wrong! That is all of that IPv4 Space, that exist.

As I said earlier that IPv4 Address space is limited to 2^32 ( 4,294,967,296 ).

Another way of wording that is that: IPv4 Address space is limited to 256^4.

Let me explain/show, what I mean by that.

#1 The four is because there are four octets (10.0.0.0)

#2 The 256 is because each of those octets can any number from 0 to 255 and because you must count 0.

#3 Now, does the math..

a) 256^1 = 256

b) 256^2 is 256 times 256 = 65,536.

c) 256^3 is, 256 times 256 times 256 = 16,777,216.

d) 256^4 is, 256 times 256 times 256 times 256 = 4,294,967,296

--

My action: Now show how many IPv4 Address are NAT, and how this affects the IPv4 Public Space.

#1 The Class C private LAN is from 192.168.0.0 to 192.168.255.255

I know right off the bat, that is the size 256^2.

65,536

#2 The Class A private LAN is from 10.0.0.0 to 10.255.255.255

256^3

16,777,216

#3 The Class B Private LAN is from 172.16.0.0 to 172.31.255.255

While 31 minus 16 is 15, I know that I must add one.

256 times 256 times 16 = 1048576

#4 Adds all of the numbers

65,536+1048576+16,777,216

#5 Total IPv4 Address space lost to NAT is 17,891,328

#6 Not Including NAT, how IPv4 Address(es) are public?

4,294,967,296 - 17,891,328 =

Answer: 4,277,075,968
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BiggA

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Re: RE:Comcast is first U.S. ISP to offer IPv6 to home gateway

But the point that you are totally missing is that the 10.x.x.x and 192.168.x.x address space can be used millions or billions of times over on different networks, and that it what makes IPv4 work.

So let's say that ICANN were to leave 800 million IPs out there, and take back the rest. Let's say that in the future, there are an average of 20 IP-enabled devices for every one of the 7 billion people on the planet, making 140 billion IP-enabled devices. 140 billion/ 800 million is 175 devices per public IP average, which is entirely attainable, considering that cell phones, for example, are probably already running several thousand per public IP, universities can do the same thing, businesses, etc.

aefstoggaflm
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said by BiggA:

#4. They already do that.

The question was: How does that person / company, know if the IP Address is used?

For example: The IP Address must reply to ping.

said by BiggA:

#5. They already do that.

The question was: How often does a person have to use their IP Address, before it is considered not used?

For example: They have to use it, at least once a month.

said by BiggA:

Allocate public IPs only to people who actually need them.

Like who?
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BiggA

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Re: RE:Comcast is first U.S. ISP to offer IPv6 to home gateway

ICANN keeps track of who own what now.

Universities and businesses need a few external IPs, some residential customers may want them, but those who want them are relatively few compared to those who don't need them. 99% of computer users don't know what a public IP is, and wouldn't care if they didn't have one.

aefstoggaflm
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Re: RE:Comcast is first U.S. ISP to offer IPv6 to home gateway

said by BiggA:

99% of computer users don't know what a public IP is..

Please explain how you can say that.

By that you mean:

a) 99% of computer users don't trouble shoot their Internet issues. They just think that the Internet issues that are having will get better on their own

OR

b) If they don't think that: They will not trouble shoot their Internet issues, as directed by a helper.

???

For example of trouble shooting their Internet issue, told to perform a trace route outbound.

quote:
*@*-desktop:~$ traceroute google.com
traceroute to google.com (74.125.228.72), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
1) L210.PHIL-DSL-RTR11.verizon-gni.net (71.242.247.1) 35.878 ms 37.321 ms 38.421 ms
2) so-0-3-0-0.PHIL-CORE-RTR2.verizon-gni.net (130.81.13.173) 40.316 ms 40.552 ms 41.618 ms
3) so-7-2-0-0.PHIL-BB-RTR2.verizon-gni.net (130.81.20.138) 105.377 ms 105.569 ms 105.521 ms
4) 0.xe-3-0-2.XL4.IAD8.ALTER.NET (152.63.3.57) 49.979 ms 0.xe-4-1-3.XL4.IAD8.ALTER.NET (152.63.3.249) 53.601 ms 54.193 ms
5) TenGigE0-7-2-0.GW7.IAD8.ALTER.NET (152.63.37.94) 51.459 ms TenGigE0-7-0-0.GW7.IAD8.ALTER.NET (152.63.32.198) 50.497 ms TenGigE0-5-0-0.GW7.IAD8.ALTER.NET (152.63.37.158) 51.024 ms
6) google-gw.customer.alter.net (152.179.50.106) 126.905 ms 114.377 ms 116.725 ms
7) 72.14.238.212 (72.14.238.212) 48.583 ms 216.239.46.248 (216.239.46.248) 48.987 ms 72.14.238.212 (72.14.238.212) 50.561 ms
8) 72.14.238.247 (72.14.238.247) 51.457 ms 53.203 ms 53.384 ms
9) iad23s07-in-f8.1e100.net (74.125.228.72) 54.630 ms 55.450 ms 56.033 ms
*@*-desktop:~$

OR for that matter, told to do a trace route inbound using »network-tools.com/ (or using some other site that can do a trace route inbound).

quote:
TraceRoute to 71.242.247.* [static-71-242-247-*.phlapa.east.verizon.net]

Hop (ms) (ms) (ms) IP Address Host name
1) 18 0 0 8.9.232.73 xe-5-3-0.edge3.dallas1.level3.net
2) 1 0 0 4.69.145.76 ae-2-70.edge2.dallas3.level3.net
3) 0 0 0 4.68.62.166 mci-level3-30g.dallas3.level3.net
4) 3 2 2 152.63.2.146 0.ge-0-0-0.dfw01-bb-rtr1.verizon-gni.net
5) 42 42 42 130.81.20.137 so-7-1-0-0.phil-core-rtr1.verizon-gni.net
6) 42 42 42 130.81.13.170 p3-0-0.phil-dsl-rtr11.verizon-gni.net
7) 112 95 94 71.242.247.* static-71-242-247-*.phlapa.east.verizon.net

Trace complete

Thanks.
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BiggA

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Re: RE:Comcast is first U.S. ISP to offer IPv6 to home gateway

99% of computer users also don't know what a traceroute is. It's not that they wouldn't troubleshoot, it's just that most people don't know how TCP/IP works, or even that it exists. They plug in the cable, and the internet works. Whether it's IPv4, IPv4 with CGN, or IPv6, they don't know or care.

aefstoggaflm
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said by BiggA:

I think they they should either do eminent domain on about 80-90% of the IPv4 addresses out there, and leave 10-20% of them out there for use for use for the foreseeable future and the rest for the far out future which would cause universities and corporations who are hogging bast numbers of IPs to give most of them back and consolidate networks from hundreds or thousands of IPs in just a couple, and significantly more than half of the IPs in the world would become freed up.

Right reclaiming, IPv4 will work..

Here are the first three results that I found with a Google Search for IPv4 Reclaim:

#1 »blog.icann.org/2008/02/recoverin···s-space/

#2 »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv4_addre···haustion where it clearly says Reclamation of unused IPv4 space

#3 »pjakma.wordpress.com/2011/02/03/···dresses/

**

#4 Also:

a) Read the comment(s) that are in reply to finds (where they allow comments).

b) Look your self with Google (or your favorite search engine) for: IPv4 Reclaim
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BiggA

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Re: RE:Comcast is first U.S. ISP to offer IPv6 to home gateway

Right, but they can't just reclaim totally unused ones. There are huge blocks owned by Universities that they are using to give EACH computer a public IP, which is ridiculous. Those should be reclaimed. A university shouldn't need more than a handful of public IP's with CGN. Same for Comcast. 95%+ of their users don't need a public IP, same for every other ISP, and many companies that use public IPs for individual computers. Those should be reclaimed. If they did that, less than 20% of the address space out there would actually be assigned, and ICANN could take the remaining 80%+ and just hold on to it for future, undetermined use.

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Re: RE:Comcast is first U.S. ISP to offer IPv6 to home gateway

said by BiggA:

There are huge blocks owned by Universities that they are using to give EACH computer a public IP, which is ridiculous. Those should be reclaimed. A university shouldn't need more than a handful of public IP's with CGN. Same for Comcast. 95%+ of their users don't need a public IP, same for every other ISP, and many companies that use public IPs for individual computers. Those should be reclaimed..

Please explain how you can say that.

Before you even try to reply, here are some facts..

#1 Napster was developed by Shawn Fanning while a freshman at Northeastern University and was introduced in May 1999.

#2 Napster is a P2P program.

#3 Now days there are lot more P2P programs, and not limited to only music..

a) Torrent program - To share (download & upload) Linux. Most distros of Linux are free.

b) Skype - To call other users for free over the Internet.

More info at »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peer-to-peer

--

Just to clear I am not saying that NAT is bad.

Heck I am NATTED, but by my own equipment.

--

#4 If P2P is not enough for you, also see the info at

»chrisgrundemann.com/index.php/20···-breaks/

That I found easily with a Google search for the problems with CGN.

Thanks.
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Re: RE:Comcast is first U.S. ISP to offer IPv6 to home gateway

Most P2P will run through NAT or CGN with UPnP, also many systems have NAT traversal.

Simba7
I Void Warranties

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Who Will Land the Apple Television?

The Apple.. what?

I'm sure everyone will flock for this new Apple product, even though it probably just combines an HDTV with an Apple TV into one unit and double (or triple) the price of it.

FFH
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Re: Who Will Land the Apple Television?

said by Simba7:

I'm sure everyone will flock for this new Apple product, even though it probably just combines an HDTV with an Apple TV into one unit and double (or triple) the price of it.

Yes, you can get an HDTV for $400 and an AppleTV box for $100. But I'll bet an Apple endorsed or built combo unit would cost $1000.

fuziwuzi
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And an AppleTV is already a poor choice among streaming media players. A WDTV Live SMP does far more, plays more, connects to more for the same or cheaper price and isn't locked into the iTunes hellhole.
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A Comcast box done by Apple would be AMAZING. It actually wouldn't suck.
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Shake Loose Underutilized Government Spectrum

A radical approach. Develop a new free satellite local TV station distribution system. Utilize advances in satellite receiver technology to develop a system that requires small antennas similar to satellite radio antennas to receive all local stations via satellite. Use LightSquared spectrum and other spectrum that might interfere with GPS in a terrestrial environment, for the new system. Assign other spectrum to LightSquared that will not interfere with GPS. Release all UHF/VHF spectrum reserved for television transmission to wireless networks.

Television stations will be able to eliminate all UHF/VHF transmission towers and transmitters and the cost to maintain same. Cost to implement system should be paid for by Wireless service providers that acquire released spectrum. Television stations might be required to pay a small part of the cost because of the savings in not having to maintain terrestrial TV transmitters. Consumers will benefit because they will be able to receive local channels in areas where UHF signals do not reach. Access to local TV stations, by market, will be controlled by GPS receivers built into the new technology receivers. Outside of a specific market area the consumer would be given a choice of receiving stations from nearby cities.

88615298
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Re: Shake Loose Underutilized Government Spectrum

um no.
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Re: Shake Loose Underutilized Government Spectrum

said by 88615298:

um no.

much better idea is to convert all that spectrum into internet spectrum to deliver an iptv solution to people

etherway nothing will change (to many vested intrests some conflicting and what not to make it happen in our life times)

88615298
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Re: Shake Loose Underutilized Government Spectrum

the mobile companies have gotten enough OTA spectrum over the years.
BiggA

join:2005-11-23
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Re: Shake Loose Underutilized Government Spectrum

Yeah, and there is a TON of spectrum out there in private hands, it's just poorly organized.
BiggA

join:2005-11-23
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Re: Shake Loose Underutilized Government Spectrum

And maybe instead of trying to free up 500mhz of spectrum, the carriers could actually build out more DAS systems and more urban tower sites like they do in Europe. That would generate the same capacity on the existing spectrum.
BiggA

join:2005-11-23
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Clearwire

Their network is tiny, but they have the spectrum. I think that AT&T is going to have to start using their 2600mhz system as a capacity overlay to their own network in major urban markets as mobile data use grows, and they need more LTE capacity.