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 | jdmatl
join:2000-04-27
Deerfield Beach, FL
| Re: Ditch the contract and you may have a deal said by ColorBASIC  :But if you don't want a very long contract they rip you for their ad filled monthly service. Not ad-filled. There are some, but you have to click on them to see them. They are not "pop-ups" that spring up all over the place like a webpage without a pop-up blocker.
You must not own a Tivo.  | |
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| matrix3D
join:2006-09-27
Deep River, CT
| This is the same time of business practice that causes me to avoid MMORPG games such as World of Warcraft -- they expect me to shell out $50-$60 for the game and then spend another $15/month on top of it? No effing thank you. However, with the TiVo the hypocrisy is even worse. With WoW, at least I can understand that some, if not most, of the monthly fee is used to pay for bandwidth and server maintenance and upgrades. However, what exactly is the monthly fee to TiVo paying for? The advertisements they cram down your throat? I'm sorry, but the last time I checked it was supposed to the advertisers that paid for that and not the consumer... or maybe they are? I have a feeling TiVo may be hanging onto both ends of the stick here. | |
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NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX
| Re: Ditch the contract and you may have a deal Online games cost money to keep running. Do you honestly thing that sales alone could generate enough money to keep such a massive game going smoothly.
You get what you pay for. Great game and worth the fee.
As for the Tivo, the listings cost money, they put out great updates and as a company are fighting to make your recorded videos easier to access wherever you want.
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Mac Chatter
»www.macchatter.net | |
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| | | apollo80
join:2002-01-31
Richmond, VA
| Re: Ditch the contract and you may have a deal said by NOCMan :As for the Tivo, the listings cost money, Don't PC tv tuner card software allow you to download tv listings for free? I don't buy that the company has to charge you for the listings.
Now everything else you mentined, I believe. | |
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| | | | wierdo
join:2001-02-16
Tulsa, OK
 ·Future Nine Corpor..
·Teliax VOIP
 ·Cox HSI
| Re: Ditch the contract and you may have a deal Using screen scrapers, in violation of the terms of service of the various websites that offer listings. Zap2it is cutting off their XML based service soon.
In addition to the listings, there is the work involved in updating the software, (sometimes) subsidizing the box, bandwidth, running the servers to aggregate the information for TiVoCast and Swivel Search, and whatever other stuff they do that the unit queries their servers for. | |
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| | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Answer this long age old question.
Why is it you shell out the hundreds of dollars for a "DVR" and when you no longer pay their fee, you have what amounts to a paper weight?
Why can't you still use the box to time shift live TV? Why can't you set manual recordings? Why can't you view your saved programs and why can't you even watch regular TV any more?
We pay subscription fees to cable and satellite.. NOT TV. Tivo has built itself as a service, not hardware.
Where are the people crying out about this rip-off? Because that's what it is.
I purchased hardware that should not require a guide to work, technically. So what say you now?
(and Tivo TV Guide listings should not cost upwards of $19.99 a month... the listing is a relatively small download that is also ad supported. Everyone else charges about $4.95 a month for listings - even cable. Windows MediaCenter has been giving away the guide data for free all along and others can use Zap-2-it for guide data.)
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"Complaining is the least path of resistance for the self-serving, the lazy, and I’m told it’s a woman’s prerogative..." | |
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| | | matrix3D
join:2006-09-27
Deep River, CT
| Let me quote my original post:
quote:
With WoW, at least I can understand that some, if not most, of the monthly fee is used to pay for bandwidth and server maintenance and upgrades.
I already acknowledged that it costs money to maintain the servers and pay the people that do so. However, I pointed out that what TiVo is saying amounts to: "Pay us $300 for this DVR that SHOULD be able to record and timeshift WITHOUT our advertisements listing service but doesn't unless you pay us a monthly fee so we can make money off of you AND the advertisers." They're sucking through both ends of the straw. | |
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| | | soccerguy
join:2004-06-28
Seattle, WA
 ·Speakeasy
| Re: Ditch the contract and you may have a deal No disrespect, but I've owned two TiVo's for years and have never had any problems with advertisements. The only one's I've ever seen require the user to actively click on messages to view them, which I never do. In other words, I never see an advertisement unless I go looking for it on TiVo. | |
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ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
 ·Covad Wireless
edit:
July 24th, @12:11PM
| Re: Ditch the contract and you may have a deal I've posted examples of what I saw on my Series 2's on numerous occasions and they included banner ads during program playback, banner ads within the interface (which you mention) and system message spam. The system message spam was the worst. I would get notifications that I had an important system message which was often a lineup change. But then I would get system messages selling stuff like Sheryl Crow CDs, TV shows and movie trailers. A lot of this stuff appeared with software version 7.2 so units like my HD-DirecTiVos never saw it while both of my Series 2's did. It also depends on what programs you were watching as the banners were purchased for playback during certain programming either during commercials or when you would FWD or RWD.
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Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire | |
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| | | | | soccerguy
join:2004-06-28
Seattle, WA
·Speakeasy
| Re: Ditch the contract and you may have a deal But those are messages that you have to go into System, select Messages, and THEN actively click on the message to see the "advertisement." I just delete them without reading them. It's a far cry from pop-up advertising in the middle of your show. On a scale of 1 to 10, I think the nuisance value is about a 2. | |
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ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·Covad Wireless
edit:
July 24th, @01:43PM
| Re: Ditch the contract and you may have a deal Yeah but they mask the spam by calling it an "Important System Message" which until then were reserved for specific TiVo service related matters like billing, line up changes, service update messages etc. You don't know it's them selling you a Sheryl Crow CD until you've selected it. You also can't remove the system notification without selecting then deleting it. In any event trying to sell me something isn't an Important System Message.
For $17/mo + $300 my point is I shouldn't have to put of with a nuisance value of 0.1.
Some people love their TiVo's so much they'll excuse anything TiVo does. $17+HW+banners+spam is not worth it IMO.
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Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire | |
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| | | | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| You're right.. however, the point remains that you think the advertiser is getting their ads there for free? No. Therefore, Tivo is gaining revenue from the advertiser.. so how about that $17 fee?? Shouldn't it come down more?
You need a Tivo subscription to use the device that you purchased. (My views are different on the free-for-service boxes) So what's with the 1 year, 2 year, and 3 year pricing levels? This TRULY and CLEARLY is a penalty for not coughing up the money fast enough. Like I said, with out their subscription, you have a door stop.
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"Complaining is the least path of resistance for the self-serving, the lazy, and I’m told it’s a woman’s prerogative..." | |
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TechieZero
Tools Are Using Me
Premium
join:2002-01-25
Wesley Chapel, FL
| said by soccerguy :No disrespect, but I've owned two TiVo's for years and have never had any problems with advertisements. The only one's I've ever seen require the user to actively click on messages to view them, which I never do. In other words, I never see an advertisement unless I go looking for it on TiVo. Same here. Too much wine and nothing else to snack going on here. | |
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Cabal
Premium
join:2007-01-21
Boston, MA | $8/mo. | |
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sporkme
drop the crantini and move it, sister
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-01
Budd Lake, NJ
| Re: Ditch the contract and you may have a deal
bargain? |
said by ColorBASIC :said by Cabal :$8/mo. $17/mo with a 1 year contract AND a $200 cancellation fee (which is nearly a 100% penalty given that $17x12mo is $204). It's only $8.31 if you buy 3 years of service in advance for $300...$300 which not too long ago got you LIFETIME service. Also that $300 is a sale, normally they charge $300 for 2 years of service which is $12.50/mo. I'm just whining like a schoolgirl over their new pricing plans which are lame. I wish they would go back to the $300 lifetime or $13 no contract pricing. Damn. I hope that if they hook up with DTV again my pricing stays the same for the tivo portion of the service. | |
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Pz_
join:2001-03-31
Brownsburg, IN
clubs: | Re: Ditch the contract and you may have a deal I had to hook my Tivo up to the phone line once when I first got it. I've never had it back on since. Its been over 3 years now. | |
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sporkme
drop the crantini and move it, sister
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-01
Budd Lake, NJ
| Re: Ditch the contract and you may have a deal said by ColorBASIC :You need it to order PPV though the box. I'm not sure what else you would need it for. Not even for that. Post-hacking, I got leery of the call and unplugged the line. I was able to order PPV via the website just fine.
I'm just really, really hoping that DTV and Tivo team up again, and that if they do they keep the same monthly fee. $6 I'll do, but not $17. | |
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wmcbrine
Touched by His Noodly Appendage
join:2002-12-30
Laurel, MD
edit:
July 24th, @06:36PM
| said by ColorBASIC :Also that $300 is a sale, normally they charge $300 for 2 years of service which is $12.50/mo. It seems to be a permanent sale... it's been going on since January, at least.
But I agree with most of your points.
Re DirecTV: Most of the ads are also presented on the DirecTV units; and the pricing is a $6 a month "DVR fee" to cover all units (waived if you subscribe to the highest level of service), plus $5 a month for each box beyond the first (though the latter applies to any DirecTV receiver). You also have to pay up front for the box.
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09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 | |
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| | | | | wierdo
join:2001-02-16
Tulsa, OK | Thanks to my previous lifetime service, I pay $6.95 a month.  | |
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| | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20 | For once, we agree. | |
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| | | Couch Potato
What?
Premium
join:2004-08-29
Evansville, IN | $17/month ?! an HD DVR here costs $13/month to rent from the cable company, why would I pay for the HW then pay a monthly fee also ?! | |
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| | | | | keeska
Premium
join:2007-04-06
Sedona, AZ
·Cox HSI
| Re: Ditch the contract and you may have a deal quote:
Some people believe that the cable company DVR software interface is so horrible ...
For me the TiVO interface is not that good. I was glad when DirecTV dropped TiVO in its new HD box. On the other hand I agree - the Cable DVR interface is so bad it makes anything else look good. I would have thought the Cable companies would have put more pressure on SA and Motorola to do a better interface. | |
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anon tivo
@theplanet.com | you must not have a tivo. | |
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pjhofmann
join:2000-08-22
Happy Valley, OR | Re: much more reasonable price My problem with Tivo Series 3 is that the CableCards you use are not 2-way. I use OnDemand a lot on Comcast and would not want to lose that feature. I'll stick with Moto HD-DVR box I get from Comcast and my Tivo Series 2 keeps going on the SD TV. | |
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| | ajwees41
join:2002-05-10
Omaha, NE
·Cox HSI
| Re: much more reasonable price said by pjhofmann :My problem with Tivo Series 3 is that the CableCards you use are not 2-way. I use OnDemand a lot on Comcast and would not want to lose that feature. I'll stick with Moto HD-DVR box I get from Comcast and my Tivo Series 2 keeps going on the SD TV. The cards don't need to be 2way Tivo needs hardware and Tivo hasn't gotten cable labs approval.
Plus The need to run OCAP software on the S3.
ajwees41 | |
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| | | wierdo
join:2001-02-16
Tulsa, OK
·Future Nine Corpor..
·Teliax VOIP
·Cox HSI
| Re: much more reasonable price said by PGHammer : CableLabs has plainly stated they have no objections to that, so the ball is in TiVo's court. This is Cable Labs saying one thing while the contracts require something entirely different.
A device with third party software may not, by Cable Labs' fiat, communicate upstream, or even contain the hardware needed to do so. The only way a third party can build a two way box is if they build an OCAP box. That sounds great, why not make the TiVo app OCAP, you say? The third party box builder gets no say in what UI gets deployed on said OCAP box. That's completely up to the cable provider.
TiVo would have to negotiate with each cable operator to distribute TiVo's software, presumably at an extra cost to the subscriber. OCAP boxes run the cable company's interface, not the manufacturer's.
Additionally, there is no two way spec that a third party box manufacturer can build a box to be compliant with at this point. It's still vaporware. The current CC cable boxes just use the card to handle the decryption (really only the keying, AFAIK) and implement proprietary schemes to do VOD and PPV ordering.
Despite what the industry would have you believe, it's a scam. | |
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PGHammer
join:2003-06-09
Accokeek, MD
clubs:
·Comcast
| Re: much more reasonable price The requirement from CableLabs is what the content *owners* have insisted on (whether you like it or not, the cable industry is at the mercy of the content owners just as much as the other content-deliverers (DBS and the NAB); they cannot afford to piss them off); a similar requirement is in place for computers (HDCP was originally intended to prevent casual piracy of content received on IT devices in general, and PCs in particular).
As far as OCAP middleware goes, there are three competing software proposals (one each from Motorola/Gemstar, Cisco, and a completely independent solution from the GuideWorks JV between Gemstar, Comcast, and Time Warner Cable). While OCAP-compliant devices at the endpoints have been developed and fielded, the middle of the content delivery path is still mostly proprietary, and replacing it is not cheap. All that proprietary middle-end hardware is being replaced by the cable companies in the course of normal operations (because it is too darn expensive to do so otherwise, especially with the unplanned expense of having to change STBs forced on most providers by the FCC).
The current separate-security STBs (from all the major providers) are compatible with both OCAP and their own proprietary schemes (so far, this is true of Motorola, S-A, and Pace), so there *is* apparently a standard for the endpoint devices. | |
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| | | | | wierdo
join:2001-02-16
Tulsa, OK
·Future Nine Corpor..
·Teliax VOIP
·Cox HSI
| Re: much more reasonable price The content owners have no horse in this race. With copy protection and features like TiVoToGo, they do. The content owners don't care whether boxes come with TiVo's software or whether the cable company forces you to use whatever UI they feel like distributing. | |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| Please explain Ok I've never owned any kind of DVR. If I'm paying $300 for one why should I have to pay a monthly fee? Back when peopled use VCR to record shows you paid for the VCR and the tape and that's it. Heck most new DVD players have it where you can record so why not use one of those? They cost less than $300 and no monthly fee. | |
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See 34 replies to this post |
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jdmatl
join:2000-04-27
Deerfield Beach, FL
|  Series2 is "dead"
Had I known that the S3-Lite would be $299, would have never purchased a s2DT. I was guessing cost would be 499 or 599 considering how the original S3 was 899.00.
Sigh, live and learn.  | |
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ninjatutle
join:2006-01-02
San Ramon, CA | Oh wellz The TiVo HD DVR is designed for cable and CANNOT support satellite programming. | |
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| jdmatl
join:2000-04-27
Deerfield Beach, FL
| Re: Oh wellz said by ninjatutle :The TiVo HD DVR is designed for cable and CANNOT support satellite programming. All the Satellite guys have their own DVR's so no big loss. Rumor is that Tivo will be re-entering DirecTV market again.
I don't see how given that Dtv has their own Dvr's that Dtv actually produces (I think). | |
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| | Kevin Dupuy
join:2007-04-07
Addis, LA | Re: Oh wellz As a DIRECTV customer, I do miss their TiVo service (mine died and I had to get their crappy DVR)
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Because there is no patch for human stupidity. Or my DIRECTV Plus DVR. | |
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Burrens
join:2006-01-17
Austin, TX | TiVo HD and SDV Will this work with SDV? Time Warner here in Austin employs SDV from what I hear. I would hate to trade up to the TiVo HD, and subscribe to digital cable to find out that I cannot get all the channels that TW offers. | |
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myosh
join:2001-05-03
Cupertino, CA | Re: TiVo HD and SDV From what I understand, the TiVo HD has the same limitation as the Series3 TiVo which means no SDV support. | |
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| jdmatl
join:2000-04-27
Deerfield Beach, FL
| said by Burrens :Will this work with SDV? Time Warner here in Austin employs SDV from what I hear. I would hate to trade up to the TiVo HD, and subscribe to digital cable to find out that I cannot get all the channels that TW offers. Very true, but so is the cable company. Cable Co's as of July 1st have to use Cable Cards. Since tivo takes cable cards, they will be ok. Also tivo ceo mentioned something about it working with SDV via a 3rd party add-on. nothing definate yet. | |
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myosh
join:2001-05-03
Cupertino, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| Re: TiVo HD and SDV said by jdmatl :Since tivo takes cable cards, they will be ok. Not necessarily. The Motorola and SA DVRs the cable companies use have the two-way communication built-in so they can take advantage of VOD and SDV. The TiVo DVRs do not have two-way communication hardware in the boxes. It has nothing to do with the CableCards. | |
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vonslatt
join:2001-07-17
Burlington, MA
| Just ordered mine . . . . I almost sold my TiVo stock when I switched to Verizon FiOS and got the Motorola HD DVR. I thought TiVo would be demolished by this competition.
However, the Motorola DVR sucked so deeply and thoroughly that I vowed to go back to TiVo the moment the Series3 hit three bills, I thought that was going to take another year so I'm pleasantly surprised.
The value TiVo provides for their monthly fee far out strips that provided by the Verizon DVR's rental.
And don't say MythTV to me unless you've actually configured one to receive both HD and Digital cable programming AND successfully trained your family in it's use!
Jake.
»steampunkworkshop.com | |
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See 6 replies to this post |
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itguy05
join:2005-06-17
Camp Hill, PA | No Tivo 4 me Had a DirecTivo - loved it. However, we went to Comcast and their DVR. While the software isn't as good as Tivo, the cost is $11/mo. vs $300 + $17 for Tivo. No thanks, I'll deal with the Motorola stuff. | |
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banditws6
Shrinking Time and Distance
join:2001-08-18
Naples, FL
·Comcast
| Beats SARA... While the 8300HD box I rent from Comcast is a great piece of hardware, the SARA software we're stuck with in our area is so beyond dysfunctional that I'm actually considering paying a higher monthly cost to retire it and go with a TiVo HD DVR.
As a current owner of a TiVo Series 2 (with lifetime service) that I would be keeping, there may be a multi-unit discount applicable as well.
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"I'll follow the law until it's just stupid." -Ted Nugent | |
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myosh
join:2001-05-03
Cupertino, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| Re: Beats SARA... Maybe, just maybe, TiVo will have another "Transfer your lifetime service" promotion to kick start the sales of the TiVo HD just like they did with the Series3.
As for the multiple service discount (MSD), the $6/mo discount for each additional TiVo still exists. | |
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| | mjpaci
join:2005-05-04
Swampscott, MA | Re: Beats SARA... That's true unless you get the 3 years for $299 (~$8/mo). That option is not eligible for multi unit discounts. It's in the fine print. | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ | $300 $300 plus the monthly fee! thanks but no thanks
tivo just needs to die already or do away with the monthly fee.
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You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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WhyCableCard
@qwest.net
| Why cableCard The cable provider is required to provide the local broadcast channels in the clear so if they provide the local HD channels they do not require any cable STB. Can someone explain the need for a cableCard in this case? Or is the FAQ at the TiVO site misleading and you only need the cableCard for non-local broadcast channels? | |
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| wierdo
join:2001-02-16
Tulsa, OK
·Future Nine Corpor..
·Teliax VOIP
·Cox HSI
| Re: Why cableCard said by WhyCableCard :
The cable provider is required to provide the local broadcast channels in the clear so if they provide the local HD channels they do not require any cable STB. Can someone explain the need for a cableCard in this case? Or is the FAQ at the TiVO site misleading and you only need the cableCard for non-local broadcast channels?
TiVo requires the CableCARD to map the channels properly and associate the guide data with them. For example, on Cox in Tulsa, the PBS affiliate's HD channel is 711 in all their literature and all their boxes. It's really on RF channel 73, subchannel 2 (73-2 on my TV set that has a clear QAM tuner and the TiVo without CableCARDs)
The biggest problem is that the cable companies move them around at their whim. Since the cable boxes and CableCARD devices have facilities to map virtual channel numbers to their real RF channel/subchannel it doesn't appear to change from an end user standpoint. Unless you're using a clear QAM tuner, of course. What's more, that information is not published anywhere, so even if TiVo wanted to provide mappings, there's not really a feasible way, without requiring the user to do it themselves. Since TiVo considers themselves an enemy of complexity, they refuse to create a facility for users to make their own channel maps. | |
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| | keeska
Premium
join:2007-04-06
Sedona, AZ
·Cox HSI
| Re: Why cableCard quote:
TiVo requires the CableCARD to map the channels properly
Not really necessary - may be nice to have but not worth paying the cable company for 2 cableCards *plus* $35.00 (or maybe $70.00 to install both - I didn't ask)to slide it into the PCMCIA slot.
quote:
and associate the guide data with them.
Is this a TiVO limitation? I have a couple of DVRs which provide Guide information for the QAM channel, not the mapped channel since they do not map the channels. It isn't searchable like TiVO but the program descriptions match pretty closely.
So will this new box tune the QAM channels using the channel numbers if I do not have a cableCard or will it refuse without the cableCard? | |
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much more reasonable price