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Time Warner Cable: Google Fiber's No Better Than What We Offer
by Karl Bode 12:36PM Wednesday Apr 30 2014
Cable executives gathered this week at The Cable Show in Los Angeles, and a big topic of conversation was of course Google Fiber, and whether cable operators plan to start offering speeds up to 1 Gbps anytime soon. Some cable operators like Cox ambiguously claimed they had 1 Gbps offerings in the works, though others, like Time Warner Cable, tried to downplay the $70, symmetrical 1 Gbps service Google Fiber is offering.

In fact, to hear Time Warner Cable EVP and CTO Mike Lajoie tell it, Time Warner Cable offers essentially the same service:
quote:
Google Fiber “is certainly a worthy competitor, if they’re going to overbuild us,” but that they offer “nothing dramatically different” than what TWC can bring to bear, Mike LaJoie, TWC’s executive vice president and chief technology and network operations officer, said. “Their product works. Our product works just as well.”
Except for the fact that Time Warner Cable's service is considerably slower (especially on the upstream), much more expensive and comes burdened with significantly more fees and historically-awful customer service, sure -- they're exactly the same. Time Warner Cable executives have previously tried to claim demand's just not there for Google Fiber. They've also tried to focus on the argument that nobody needs 1 Gbps, in the hopes of distracting people from the fact that Time Warner Cable is charging significantly more for considerably less.

Cable execs at The Cable Show claim that they'll soon be pushing faster cable speeds out to market courtesy of DOCSIS 3.1. They've decided to brand these offerings "Gigasphere" to capitalize on the gig obsession, even if many are nowhere near ready or willing to offer 1 Gbps. Most consumers may technically "need" 1 Gbps, but they certainly wouldn't be upset if cable simply improved its two weakest areas: upstream speed and price.

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ISurfTooMuch

join:2007-04-23
Tuscaloosa, AL

What are these guys smoking?

It must be some good stuff if it makes them say things like this. And they'd better be willing to share if they want anyone to actually believe them.
CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:2

Re: What are these guys smoking?

It is the good shit alright... costs a ton of money too! The kind of money you have when you choose NOT to upgrade the system but rather milk the customers until you are forced to upgrade,
elefante72

join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY

3 recommendations

Re: What are these guys smoking?

There are of course many inaccuracies, but when your technology is VASTLY inferior you always need to downplay. It's like saying a 5400k 160 GB seagate drive is as good as a Samsung 840 Pro 160 SSD. Well maybe the customer only needs 100GB, but it will happen 1000x faster on SSD than the spinning platter. Also spinning platters are mechanical and they die easier (for the most part). If you look at pricing, it's not 1000x difference either. IF the customer had a choice, where do you think they would go?

The demand comment is bunk because TWC is charging for 30/5 what google people get for 1000/1000. Any "high" speed, the cost is crazy. I can get 500, but would cost $500 a month. I can see why there would be little residential demand for that. Even 300 is a cool $299.

Why cover those bozos anyways? They will be sipping margaritas off their yachts in Ft Lauderdale in a few months anyways.

Where I live if my coax could make is 3 years before needing replacement that was a good day. Then TWC would tear up my lawn and fix it 6 months later. Going on almost 4 years w/ FiOS and nary a peep. That fibre will outlive me. While coax is better than copper it's nowhere close to fibre.
existenz

join:2014-02-12
kudos:2

Re: What are these guys smoking?

TWC also has slow uplink and compresses many channels with switched digital video. Google doesn't compress any channels beyond the original content provider, doing about 15Mbps per HD channel (supposedly MPEG4).

koitsu
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
kudos:23

1 recommendation

My favourite part of the quote is this:

quote:
“Their product works. Our product works just as well.”
Right, so, what's the problem? Theirs works, ours works, Comcast's works, AT&T's works, Rogers' works.....

The problem is that like most conglomerates they're afraid of actual competition. They don't know what they can say that demonises the competition (think of it like US political debates, where mudslinging is the top choice of rebuttal), so instead they say quite literally "it's neither here nor there" -- in effect is saying absolutely nothing. Why did LaJoie open his mouth? A better choice would have been for him to not say anything at all.

All in all, I think it's just another manifestation of this. We Americans just want to fight, and if we can't fight, we just want to hear ourselves talk. (Yes, you can use this post of mine as an example if you wish.)
--
Making life hard for others since 1977.
I speak for myself and not my employer/affiliates of my employer.
ericthered26

join:2011-09-29
Hamilton, OH

Delusional

Wow, what a moron. Either he's a crackhead or he's living is some other universe.
toejam

join:2013-06-14
San Jose, CA

2 recommendations

Re: Delusional

Unfortunately, his jedi mind tricks work on many.

TKJunkMail
Premium
join:2005-12-09
said by ericthered26:

Wow, what a moron. Either he's a crackhead or he's living is some other universe.

He's an EVP, so he's a coke head. He can afford it.

Eddy120876

join:2009-02-16
Bronx, NY

We are as good as google but we don't give you the same price

LMAO gotta love this fools at TWC/Comcast we are as good but not at the same price. Yeah the day they offer the same price as Google then you can talk.
MrBungle87

join:2013-01-18
Durham, NC

Is it wrong?

To want these people to actually drop dead? Am I a bad person?
Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

Re: Is it wrong?

No, you are not a bad person. However, you clearly are not a stockholder of the company.
MrBungle87

join:2013-01-18
Durham, NC

Re: Is it wrong?

No worries. I only invest in companies which aren't pure evil. Too bad those are growing fewer by the year.
mingkee27

join:2013-06-21
Brooklyn, NY

more competition is always better

A cable company saying such words expresses concern of increasing competition.
Hopefully Google Fiber will cover the whole NYC and kick Verizon tail!

Pathfinder
Dazed Confused
Premium
join:2000-03-26
Mount Vernon, NY

Re: more competition is always better

You'll see Google Fiber in NYC when pigs fly.
existenz

join:2014-02-12
kudos:2

Re: more competition is always better

Density wise NYC makes sense. Google has deploying to multiunit buildings down well in KC and likely get a bigger bang for buck with hirise buildings. Politics, right of ways and red tape may be the problem.

With buildings that come to agreement with Google, every unit gets free 5M. Building owners have to invest $300 per unit but for each unit that upgrades to TV|Gbit, the owner gets $300 back. Any condo/market rate apt building will go for it as they can market the building with free internet and Gbit ready. KC already has about 400 condo/apt buildings hooked up.

»fiber.google.com/propertymanager···rtments/
smcallah

join:2004-08-05
Home

Re: more competition is always better

But KC is not NYC. Unions are entrenched in NYC, making it almost impossible to get things done without greasing the right palms.

Nothing more annoying that doing wiring work in NYC, where you can't plug in your own wires, knowing how simple it is to do.
Springbok

join:2002-09-13
Colleyville, TX
About not getting Google fiber in NYC: They said that about Tokyo, too, even more dense and built up. That's why there are sewer pipes.

newview
Ex .. Ex .. Exactly
Premium
join:2001-10-01
Parsonsburg, MD
kudos:1

C'mon ... get real

Google Fiber will ALWAYS be better ... because it's NOT Time Warner Cable
onthecake

join:2003-08-08
Kansas City, MO
Reviews:
·Google Fiber

Yep. The same

GF - $147 for 1 Gbps up and down, 4 DVR/STBs with 2 TB of storage, 1 TB of google drive space, and a nexus 7. Price goes down by $15 after 2 years because you own the STBs.

TWC - $230 for 100/5, 4 DVRs. This of course is the price for a year which will then change unless you threaten to cancel.
existenz

join:2014-02-12
kudos:2

1 recommendation

Re: Yep. The same

And TWC compresses many HD channels with switched digital video. Google essentially uses the same effective quality as the original feed from content provider.
smcallah

join:2004-08-05
Home

Re: Yep. The same

SDV has nothing to do with compressing channels. SDV means that frequencies can be reused for different nodes. It saves bandwidth on TWC's end by not sending all channels to all nodes. It has nothing to do with compression towards users.
existenz

join:2014-02-12
kudos:2

1 edit

Re: Yep. The same

Yeah, I know that SDV doesn't itself mean compressed but I was under impression (from other forums) that most channels on SDV were heavily compresses compared to those not. Are there non-SDV channels with less compression? When I had TWC, it seemed channels on SDV had the most high motion pixelation issues.

Either way, Google Fiber apparently doesn't compress any channels beyond original content provider. They are doing at least 15Mbps per HD channel, apparently using MPEG4. What are TWC bitrates/coded? I've heard they are using MPEG2 so at same bitrate, there would be more compression.
existenz

join:2014-02-12
kudos:2

1 edit

2 recommendations

They try to compete with rhetoric and sophistry rather than service

I've had Google Fiber in KC for a few weeks, switching from TWC.

TWC doesn't really compete on any level, especially uplink. We've been complaining about signal issues in our building for years but TWC didn't do a thing until Google started to actually install fiber in our building. TWC showed up unsolicited and 'upgraded' the cabling to allow 100.

TWC now offers 100/5 in my building for $95 (no TV) with future plans for 300. 5M uplink? They also recently sent a flyer 'deal' for 20/1 Internet, TV/DVR and HBO for $120. They aren't even trying to compete with Google Fiber in KC.

edit: Here's my review of Google Fiber in comparison to TWC...
»Review of Google Fiber by existenz

jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Ashburn, VA
kudos:1

1 recommendation

Re: They try to compete with rhetoric and sophistry rather than service

said by existenz:

They aren't even trying to compete with Google Fiber in KC.

Sure they are, but they've found that it is far more economically feasible to do their fighting using lobbyists in DC, and not out on the streets where they provide service. They simply are not equipped to compete in any conventional way. It's something they rarely have to do.
firedrakes

join:2009-01-29
Arcadia, FL

Re: They try to compete with rhetoric and sophistry rather than service

why their so lazy on even trying to lie about this
existenz

join:2014-02-12
kudos:2

1 edit

Re: They try to compete with rhetoric and sophistry rather than service

Because many will buy into it. The reality is not many can really use a Gbit and TWC can use that to convince others from 'the effort' to switch. However Google is also offering 'free' 5M and TWC has to be concerned about that. Apts/condos pay for the install and can offer free internet - over 400 buildings in KC already offer it in every unit - potential lost TWC customers. If the avg is 50 units per building/complex, that's potentially 20K customers alone.

Edit: source...
»fiber.google.com/propertymanager···rtments/

buzz_4_20

join:2003-09-20
Limestone, ME

They must not be good at basic math... For Starters

$70 for a 1000/1000 vs $65 (promo pricing) for 50/5.

Define Better please.
existenz

join:2014-02-12
kudos:2

Re: They must not be good at basic math... For Starters

And $95 for 100/5.
onthecake

join:2003-08-08
Kansas City, MO

1 recommendation

Re: They must not be good at basic math... For Starters

Your forgetting the $8 modem rental and $3 in taxes....
nicholasr87

join:2008-11-08
Columbus, OH
I pay $90 for 50/5 in Columbus. I think that is pretty sad because the wifi at school is 3-50 times faster.

»www.speedtest.net/result/3445325187.png

kpfx

join:2005-10-28
San Antonio, TX

Re: They must not be good at basic math... For Starters

Really? You're getting 158 Mbps on a WiFi connection?
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS

3x the speed, same price,

It's tough to argue, in comparison to greedy & lazy incumbents [AT&T, Verizon, Comcast]. Why would you want to use those as a benchmark of what's OK in this industry?!? Google fiber would go further (10 and 40 gigabits) if Time Warner (Comcast) or any other incumbent in Ks or Mo bumped speeds to gigabit.. which isn't technically feasible until the end of THIS year when the docsis 3.1 SPEC is solidified and cable-modem/ctms equipment MFG's can be lined up for contracted bulk purchases of equipment. MFG in Asia takes a minimum of 4-6 month lead time before you can get your hands on the equipment. No mfg wants to get burned on a spec that isn't "DRY" and standardized.

Multiple 1080p streams would be ok on 300mbits for download/streaming, but what if you wanted to SEND that kind of bandwidth too.. 60 or 70 megabits up wouldn't cut it.. AFAIK TW's upstream is in the 35 - 65 mbit range.

Nevertheless, price drop and speed increase watch by other carriers will await with bated breath, not held breath.
masterbinky

join:2011-01-06
Carlsbad, NM

Quick!

Someone post a google fiber latency test along with a bandwidth test and compare it to a TWC top tier connection. Latency is the other measure of quality connections which is rarely spoken part of the bandwidth battles, yet is so very important to the end users' satisfaction. It also doesn't count when your network COULD perform as well, but doesn't....

•••••
RustyDonut

join:2013-05-28
Boston, MA

Sure......

Theoretically, they maybe at the same tech level (Im curious as to how copper cable is as fast as fiber.), but TWC is a huge Telco, that will always offer crazy prices.
smcallah

join:2004-08-05
Home

Re: Sure......

Copper cable is as fast as fiber dependent on the technology used over it.

Right now, the copper coax to your house carries about 5Gbit of data. With DOCSIS 3.1 and the technology used, that will be up to about 10Gbit.

Fiber can be as low as Ethernet speeds, 10Mbit, if you choose to use that technology over it. Or it can have 80+ 100GBit channels on a single fiber, which no one is going to see to their homes anytime soon or later.

Comparing residential coax to residential fiber technology of today, they are relatively just as fast. Upstream is where coax lacks, because that is how the technology works.
tkdslr

join:2004-04-24
Pompano Beach, FL
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US

1 edit

Re: Sure......

Copper has it limitations because of all the EM interference(lightning, other signals) it can pickup. That's why it needs to be exotically modulated and all sorts of forward error correction added to it.. (That takes time, energy and computational resources)..

Meanwhile fibre, needs none of that.. the Optical Network Terminal has a laser diode on xmit side, and a photo diode/ transistor on the receiving side.. Google ONT needs some smarts to convert the Gbit optical signal to Gbit Ethernet, where the Ethernet side, the data payload is split up into 4 different signals and transmitted down(or received) on all 4 pairs of twisted copper wire.

OldYeller

@5.104.224.x

True Benefit

I think TWC (and a lot of readers here) are overlooking the true benefit of Google Fiber over TWC:

- They are not launching a 1Gb/s Internet plan with a paltry 250GB/month data cap.

- Google understands peering, and won't be pushing some draconian "sender pays" nonsense.

While insignificant at face value, these points will work together to make Google Fiber the dominant choice for fostering the next generation of Internet applications.

thender
Screen tycoon
Premium
join:2009-01-01
Brooklyn, NY
kudos:1

F you says the business customer.

I pay $175/mo for 30/5 mbps.

My ping times to standard websites like google, yahoo, and DSLR go up to 1500 ms at night.

I can barely make a phone call using our VoIP system a few days a month.

And I always have a day or two of downtime where I can't process credit card transactions without using my Android tablet.

You are better than Verizon's crap DSL over 60+ yr old copper wiring.. and nothing else.
--
Macbook Screen Repair



Macbook LCDs for sale.
Brandbunnies

join:2014-05-03
phillipine

nice work the connection speed up

Please apply to my mobile to speed it up my connection beacuse my work is network comp. I want to perpect connection to subcribe lots of people and they should the succesfully

ti3lasvegas

@72.193.137.x

really?

If that is there stance, then no one NEEDS a Lamborghini or a Ferrari or anything nicer than average. What a ridiculous stance to take on the fact that they don't have the ability to even come close to competing with fiber from ANYONE! The Telcos and the Cable companies have abused their user base for years. "Where else you gonna go" was their attitude all along. Now there is a possibility of something nicer and they demean it to a mute point (maybe in their eyes) But I would take 1GB today and I am a current 150MB customer of cox for almost 100$ a month. So almost 10x the speed for less money? SIGN ME UP!

Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus

join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY

If Apple, Amazon, Google got togather.......

Imagine is companies if companies with the resources like Apple, Amazon, and Google got together to deploy their own state of the art fiber system. I know that Apple and Google have a "history" but think of this. If this was done the return on their investment would be staggering. Take Wyoming it would be easy to upgrade the whole state to get this in Wyoming would invest in the system to get it done.
--
I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.
- Mark Twain in Eruption