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Time Warner Cable Promises 1 Gbps in LA Before 2016
by Karl Bode 02:13PM Monday Jul 21 2014
Dissatisfied with service from the likes of Time Warner Cable, last fall the city of Los Angeles used an innovative approach to get 1 Gbps connections to all city residents: they simply asked if any companies wanted to come to town to build and fund an all fiber network. As we noted at the time this was a fairly obvious pipe dream, experts noting that the city wasn't really bringing any inducements to the table to lure companies to invest.

Hoping nobody will notice that Los Angeles wouldn't be looking to build such a network if they were even remotely happy with Time Warner Cable service, Time Warner Cable now says they've promised Los Angeles leaders 1 Gbps service by 2016:
quote:
The company on Friday said it told the city of Los Angeles that it plans to enhance its service to deliver Internet speeds of one gigabit-per-second for residents, businesses and government offices in 2016. That would be many times faster than the top speeds the company currently offers...."A gigabit per second is unbelievably fast," Stern said. "The network that we have is future-proofed so that we can deliver those types of speeds without having to dig up streets and dig up people's yards. What we're committing to do is make those speeds available to the entire city."
1 Gbps to the entire city of Los Angeles in just two years sounds impressive, but locals shouldn't hold their breath. Time Warner Cable has a tendency to under-deliver, then over-promise. Take North Carolina, for example, when Time Warner Cable publicly promised to deliver 1 Gbps (only after, again, other companies and cities lead the way), while privately lobbying for state laws that made sure those speeds would never happen. Hopefully Los Angeles got that promise in writing.

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Zenit

join:2012-05-07
Purcellville, VA
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
·Comcast
·Verizon Online DSL

Writing does not matter

As we learned from Verizon's many written promises of FTTH to various state governments back when they were Bell Atlantic in the early 90's, promises are made to be broken.

Heck, even their newer franchise agreements that promised FIOS to addresses that met density requirements have not been completely acted on.

So, how is TW promising "1gbps" any different? They will deliver it to a few blocks and call it a day.

Ericthorn
It only hurts when I laugh
Premium
join:2001-08-10
Paragould, AR
Reviews:
·Paragould.net
·Paragould.net

Re: Writing does not matter

Came here to say just about this exactly. All of these ISP's can blow hot air all day. Doesn't mean that there's anything to hold them accountable for what they say. I wish I could do business this way and actually stay in business.
--
Ever try stuffing a melted marshmallow up a wildcat's ass? It can be done, but you have to like your job. - This Is The Way The World Ends by James Morrow - Join a DC club, it can't hurt you!

bbeesley
VIP
join:2003-08-07
Richardson, TX
kudos:5
said by Zenit:

So, how is TW promising "1gbps" any different? They will deliver it to a few blocks and call it a day.

one thing that stuck out in the article was their statement; " "The network that we have is future-proofed so that we can deliver those types of speeds without having to dig up streets and dig up people's yards."

This leads me to believe that they plan to use DOCSIS....they can do this now by bonding 24 channels (at least the downstream speeds) and with 3.1, they can get 1Gb upstream too.

another possibility is EPON over Coax (IEEE EPoC) which should be generally available starting sometime next year.

but based on that press release, I don't think they are offering FTTH to get to 1Gb
BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH

Re: Writing does not matter

24*38 = 912mbps. They will need D3.1, which will get them to 1gbps downstream. Doesn't matter if there's only 1gbps on the whole node, as that's just a top speed for advertising anyways. Basically uncapped service like back in the day.

koolman2
Premium
join:2002-10-01
Anchorage, AK

Re: Writing does not matter

They could do 32 channel bonding.

bbeesley
VIP
join:2003-08-07
Richardson, TX
kudos:5

Re: Writing does not matter

said by koolman2:

They could do 32 channel bonding.

I don't believe there is a chipset or modem manufactured to support that

bbeesley
VIP
join:2003-08-07
Richardson, TX
kudos:5
said by BiggA:

24*38 = 912mbps.

I believe that if you configure only one of the channels to be Primary, you can get a full gig by removing the DOCSIS overhead from the secondary channels...the usable throughput of the secondary channels is closer to the max channel rate of 42.8Mbps

of course, those secondary channels then become useless for supporting non-3.0 modems

koolman2
Premium
join:2002-10-01
Anchorage, AK

Re: Writing does not matter

That is a reasonable increase in overall efficiency. If I were an ISP trying to push the most out of the network, I would push removing anything not 3.0 from the network and eventually decommission non-bonded channels.
BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH
That's interesting. Yeah, that would work. It's not like D2 modems are using a ton of channels. Still, that's a ton of bandwidth to throw at HSI when there's so much other stuff all fighting for space on the system... I guess with SDV and small nodes, they think they can reclaim enough to do 1gig service...

4 primary channels and 20 secondary channels would get you to 1008mbps... That's cutting it way too close for gig service, but I guess they could still advertise it...
ITGeeks

join:2014-04-20
Cleveland, OH
They could offer this by using RF over glass. Doing so would allow them to pull the coax out of the line while pushing fiber in the line.

Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable

1 edit
said by bbeesley:

said by Zenit:

So, how is TW promising "1gbps" any different? They will deliver it to a few blocks and call it a day.

one thing that stuck out in the article was their statement; " "The network that we have is future-proofed so that we can deliver those types of speeds without having to dig up streets and dig up people's yards."

This leads me to believe that they plan to use DOCSIS....they can do this now by bonding 24 channels (at least the downstream speeds) and with 3.1, they can get 1Gb upstream too.

another possibility is EPON over Coax (IEEE EPoC) which should be generally available starting sometime next year.

but based on that press release, I don't think they are offering FTTH to get to 1Gb

deployment of DOCSIS 3 is not even done and it came out over almost 8 years ago

it was not tell about 2012 ish tell multiple downstream were available

we still only have 8x1 system here.

IPv6 is flaky at best

DOCSIS 2.5 at best do to the lack of upstream channels
BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH

Re: Writing does not matter

Comcast and some other ISPs are up to 20mbps upload, so it's not bad everywhere...
talz13

join:2006-03-15
Avon, OH

1 recommendation

Yay?

How about increasing the upload for the rest of the country? About 3 years ago we finally got "wideband", with speeds up to 50 down / 5 up. No speed changes since then.

Edit: I see I've been out of the loop for a little while, hadn't heard about Time Warner Maxx. I wonder how long it will take to get to my area! going from 30/5 to 200/20 sounds good.

ev

@74.140.91.x

Re: Yay?

The great state of Ohio is FUBAR until at least 2017! Time Warner certainly won't spend a NICKEL upgrading any part of their networks here since we're a hot potato between Charter/Comcast.
talz13

join:2006-03-15
Avon, OH

Re: Yay?

Yay.
why60loss

join:2012-09-20
Reviews:
·Comcast
·Time Warner Cable
·Verizon Wireless..

RST fiber and AT&T are beating them to 1Gbs in NC

RST fiber is getting very close to doing 1Gbs and AT&T has gotten the green light in many city's. Time warner cable hasn't even done the 100mbs upgrade they said they would do much less 1Gbs.

TWC and there 1Gbs is a pipe dream until we see them do it.

DrDrew
That others may surf
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:15

2 edits

2 recommendations

Re: RST fiber and AT&T are beating them to 1Gbs in NC

TWC has started launching 300mpbs in the cities it said it would and that's the same area supposed to be getting 1 Gbps:
»Official MAXX - I've Got it - Thread

The areas still waiting on 100mbps to roll out will probably get the gear removed from the areas upgraded to MAXX 300mpbs shipped over and installed.

That's further along then RST "getting very close" and AT&T "getting the green light" since it's an actual service people can order and get.

Your constant thread crapping everywhere because of your bad experience with TWC is really getting old.
--
You cannot fix a problem that you refuse to acknowledge.

telcodad

join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:8

Re: RST fiber and AT&T are beating them to 1Gbs in NC

Should be a faster deployment than laying fiber, as it will be just upgrading existing plant to DOCSIS 3.1:

From: »www.cedmagazine.com/news/2014/07···fi-in-la
quote:
The nation’s second-largest cable operator, which is the process of being acquired by Comcast, said its response included detailed information about the deployment of DOCSIS 3.1 to deliver the 1-Gig service.

CableLabs released the initial specifications for DOCSIS 3.1 in October of last year. At The Cable Show in April, the cable industry gave DOCSIS 3.1 the consumer-facing name of “Gigasphere.”

“Over the last four years, Time Warner Cable has invested more than $1.5 billion to enhance our infrastructure and services in Los Angeles. This significant investment coupled with new ‘Gigasphere’ technology positions us to be able to introduce gigabit-per-second speeds in 2016,” said Peter Stern, executive vice president and chief strategy, people and corporate development officer at TWC. “Leveraging our existing network allows us to deliver these speeds faster and with less disruption than any other provider."

Los Angeles is one of the markets that Time Warner Cable targeted for its TWC Maxx network upgrade, which includes a 300 Mbps tier that has launched in some areas of the city. Time Warner said it expected to complete the network upgrade, which includes the move to all-digital, across its Los Angeles footprint by the end of this year.

Time Warner Cable said it expected DOCSIS 3.1 to be ready for initial pilots next year.

“As the new standard is certified and equipment manufacturers deliver new hardware and modems, our Los Angeles system will be prepared to begin deployment of gigabit speeds to consumers,” Stern said. “We can quickly adopt the new DOCSIS 3.1 standards and deliver gigabit speeds for consumers across our entire Los Angeles footprint, not just select neighborhoods and communities."
Bengie25

join:2010-04-22
Wisconsin Rapids, WI

Re: RST fiber and AT&T are beating them to 1Gbs in NC

Faster rollout, but more expensive, not as fast, will require more expensive near future upgrades to handle growing demand, and will need to be replaced again in 5-8 years.

Install fiber once, be done for 50-100 years.

DrDrew
That others may surf
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:15

Re: RST fiber and AT&T are beating them to 1Gbs in NC

said by Bengie25:

Faster rollout, but more expensive, not as fast, will require more expensive near future upgrades to handle growing demand, and will need to be replaced again in 5-8 years.

Install fiber once, be done for 50-100 years.

Hardly... Fiber gear doesn't stand still either and is upgraded as frequently. Capacity needs increase and new standards come out. FIOS has already done a round of upgrades on it's FIOS from BPON to GPON with another on the horizon. Google has done some as well.

Besides the bandwidth increases the upgrades are done for increased equipment density so more customers can serviced on gear occupying the same space.

Fiber companies can't buy the equipment they'll need in 5-8 years any more then other telecoms can. They buy what is available today.
--
You cannot fix a problem that you refuse to acknowledge.

djrobx
Premium
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·VOIPO
said by Bengie25:

Faster rollout, but more expensive, not as fast, will require more expensive near future upgrades to handle growing demand, and will need to be replaced again in 5-8 years.

Install fiber once, be done for 50-100 years.

Tell that to AT&T's FTTH users who are stuck on speeds less than their VDSL counteraparts. Many of them are waiting for BPON gear to be replaced with GPON.

I said this a decade ago when DSL advertising had people so worried about cable's "shared" media - there is a TON of potential capacity for data speed in cable's coax. The vast majority of it is still dedicated to broadcast video. More spectrum is moving towards high speed data as demand dictates. There's more cable can do in the future, too. DOCSIS 3.1 is by no means the end of the line.

I'd love for AT&T to step up and compete, but clearly there's something not working out in the economics of FTTH, or AT&T and Verizon would have more of the country wired up by now.
OpTiC

join:2014-03-08
West Covina, CA
Why don't TWC start laying out more fiber to get 1gbps
etaadmin

join:2002-01-17
Dallas, TX
kudos:1

Re: RST fiber and AT&T are beating them to 1Gbs in NC

Fiber is sexy and all that but DOCSIS3.1 is easily capable of 10Gpbs. There is no need to spend all that money on fiber, not yet.

quote:
DOCSIS 3.1 - Released October 2013, plans support capacities of at least 10 Gbit/s downstream and 1 Gbit/s upstream using 4096 QAM. The new specs will do away with 6 MHz and 8 MHz wide channel spacing and instead use smaller (20 kHz to 50 kHz wide) orthogonal frequency division multiplexing (OFDM) subcarriers; these can be bonded inside a block spectrum that could end up being about 200 MHz wide.[7]

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOCSIS

Flyonthewall

@206.248.154.x

If it's not written and notorized....

May as well hang any verbal promise next to the toilet for all it's worth, if you could hang it anywhere representative.

You have to wonder how companies can remain in business for this long when making statements they don't intend to keep. It should be illegal for any company to make this kind of promise without actually following through with it. Of course they'd probably claim it was a business decision that started it, and another unrelated (BS) decision that ended it.

Mind you the politicians take their cue from them, and we know what they are like too. I guess it makes sense that you parrot the behavior of the people you hang around.
why60loss

join:2012-09-20
Reviews:
·Comcast
·Time Warner Cable
·Verizon Wireless..

Re: If it's not written and notorized....

said by Flyonthewall :

May as well hang any verbal promise next to the toilet for all it's worth, if you could hang it anywhere representative.

You have to wonder how companies can remain in business for this long when making statements they don't intend to keep. It should be illegal for any company to make this kind of promise without actually following through with it. Of course they'd probably claim it was a business decision that started it, and another unrelated (BS) decision that ended it.

Mind you the politicians take their cue from them, and we know what they are like too. I guess it makes sense that you parrot the behavior of the people you hang around.

Hang next to the toilet, more like flush it down the toilet for all it's worth.
ITGeeks

join:2014-04-20
Cleveland, OH

Re: If it's not written and notorized....

As others that are claiming they'll wire cities and haven't.

djrobx
Premium
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·VOIPO

May as well hang any verbal promise next to the toilet for all it's worth, if you could hang it anywhere representative.

That's what I thought about MAXX. Yet, I have 300mbps today. Every once in a great while I get genuinely surprised.

In this case I don't think it much matters since TWC will most likely be gobbled up by Comcast, and not be around to fulfill the promise.

TAZ

join:2014-01-03
Tucson, AZ
kudos:3

2 recommendations

But wait...

I thought I didn't want gigabit. Or at least that's what TWC was saying just a few months ago. What happened?!? :P

ev

@74.140.91.x

Qube

Considering Columbus was ground-zero for Qube, you'd think that TWC would've spared no expense upgrading the entire city to gigabit... a decade ago.

The HSI precursor to what eventually became Road Runner originally started out at around 50mbps, didn't it? Like way back in 1996 or thereabouts? What was the price back then? Anyone know?

IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman

join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC
kudos:1

Brought to you by the 100 down/5 up company...

I'll believe it when it's available.

Right now, the top tier listed is 100 down/5 up...

All talk until then.
en103

join:2011-05-02

Time Warner Cable now says they've promised Los Angeles leaders 1 Gbps

Well... I don't know about you, but who cares if only the leaders will have 1Gbps service. What about the residents of L.A. ?

djrobx
Premium
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·VOIPO

Re: Time Warner Cable now says they've promised Los Angeles leaders 1 Gbps

LOL!

When TWC said they're delivering 300mbps to "LA", that appears to have meant the entire LA/Ventura/OC market.

I'd like to see what Google Fiber and AT&T GigaPower consider "LA" to be. I suspect we'll be waiting a real long time before TWC sees any meaningful competition in Santa Clarita.

tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 Gbps to the entire city of Los Angeles in just two years sounds impressive

,but not if it's Google rolling out a new fiber plant from scratch, yet upgrades to an existing COAX-fiber plant (with fiber deep in the last mile) that already reaches almost every address, can't be done?

While it's likely that TWC won't exist long enough to fulfill that or not.
if you just look at the 2 "promises" side by side knowing the technology that exists, with out prejudice towards any company or technology. and asked 100 people "WHICH is more likely to be possible?"
What do you think the results would be?

•••
bop75

join:2013-11-08
Rochester, NY

1 recommendation

Won't Comcast own them long before this could happen?

BS
elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·EarthLink

TWC Delivers

Despite the usual criticisms that this forum stirs daily, a neutral observer might note that Time Warner, Comcast, Charter, Cox and Verizon have been investing in plant and generally making good on their promises for bandwidth - and serving up better value, year after year. Its not free, but it improves year over year.

It is not inconceivable for the MSO to offer up Gbit service within three years.
Whether the public will pay for it is another matter.

Santa Monica has had muni fiber for almost two decades. Its now running at 10Gbit.
And yet, none of us peasants can tap it.

I'll take private, for-profit TWC any day of the week.

••••••
Brim77

join:2012-03-16
Lansing, MI

TWC confirms Google Fiber coming to LA.

That's the only way I see LA getting 1 Gbps by 2016.
ITGeeks

join:2014-04-20
Cleveland, OH

Re: TWC confirms Google Fiber coming to LA.

How does TWC confirm that??? Google doesn't even have a network in the other 5+ cities they promised to build in and signed contracts for.
Brim77

join:2012-03-16
Lansing, MI
Reviews:
·Spartan-net

Re: TWC confirms Google Fiber coming to LA.

First of all, *woosh*

And second, your statement make no sense. Google doesn't YET have a network built in certain cities, that's why they signed contracts to build a network. Its like being hungry and getting mad at the McDonald's cashier that the food you bought isnt already in your stomach.
SilentMan

join:2002-07-15
New York, NY

But How Much $$ ?

They could deliver the 1Gbps to city residents alright, but for how much? Would the city residents pay, say, $400 a month for a 1Gbps connection? I doubt it.

Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
kudos:2

Re: But How Much $$ ?

don't for get 1GbPS with 250GB cap
--
Live Free or Die Hard...

antdude
A Ninja Ant
Premium,VIP
join:2001-03-25
United State
kudos:4

Prove it!

Show it!